1
00:00:23,770 --> 00:00:19,770
[Music]

2
00:00:39,740 --> 00:00:23,780
so

3
00:00:50,390 --> 00:00:48,950
[Music]

4
00:01:02,360 --> 00:00:50,400
so

5
00:01:02,370 --> 00:01:22,550
[Music]

6
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,340
so

7
00:02:37,350 --> 00:01:49,290
[Music]

8
00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:39,030
i was happy that i was able on

9
00:02:44,309 --> 00:02:41,840
archive.gov to find some interesting

10
00:02:45,750 --> 00:02:44,319
videos related to roswell also

11
00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:45,760
interestingly some of the people

12
00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:47,440
interviewing these

13
00:02:51,270 --> 00:02:49,200
original witnesses

14
00:02:53,670 --> 00:02:51,280
were interviewed for our special here

15
00:02:55,430 --> 00:02:53,680
people like don schmidt and kevin randle

16
00:02:58,149 --> 00:02:55,440
and tom carey

17
00:03:00,949 --> 00:02:58,159
sadly stan friedman is no longer with us

18
00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:00,959
but i have included that interview as

19
00:03:04,790 --> 00:03:02,959
well i want to thank each and every one

20
00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:04,800
of you for joining us here for our

21
00:03:21,990 --> 00:03:07,920
roswell 75th anniversary special event

22
00:03:25,430 --> 00:03:24,149
what do you have

23
00:03:27,670 --> 00:03:25,440
no

24
00:03:29,270 --> 00:03:27,680
this is stan friedman i'm a nuclear

25
00:03:30,949 --> 00:03:29,280
physicist with a very strong interest in

26
00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:30,959
flying saucers

27
00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:34,000
i'm in kansas city missouri

28
00:03:40,390 --> 00:03:38,000
on july 24 1991

29
00:03:43,030 --> 00:03:40,400
i'm here to do an interview with gerald

30
00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:43,040
anderson a very important witness with

31
00:03:49,030 --> 00:03:45,280
regard to recovery of a crash flying

32
00:03:50,789 --> 00:03:49,040
saucer in new mexico in july 1947.

33
00:03:52,869 --> 00:03:50,799
we have just had a visit with a

34
00:03:55,190 --> 00:03:52,879
polygraph examiner

35
00:03:57,429 --> 00:03:55,200
who says he has seen no evidence of

36
00:03:59,670 --> 00:03:57,439
deceptions after spending several hours

37
00:04:00,789 --> 00:03:59,680
with myself and gerald mostly with

38
00:04:03,429 --> 00:04:00,799
gerald

39
00:04:05,750 --> 00:04:03,439
a full report will be forthcoming

40
00:04:17,430 --> 00:04:05,760
so with that we will talk to gerald

41
00:04:21,590 --> 00:04:19,509
you state your name please my name is

42
00:04:24,629 --> 00:04:21,600
gerald anderson where were you born and

43
00:04:26,469 --> 00:04:24,639
when i was born october 4th 1941

44
00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:26,479
indianapolis indiana

45
00:04:31,070 --> 00:04:28,880
okay and

46
00:04:33,990 --> 00:04:31,080
give me a summary of what happened in

47
00:04:36,310 --> 00:04:34,000
1947 with regard to a crash flying

48
00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:36,320
saucer in the mix well we had just moved

49
00:04:41,830 --> 00:04:39,040
to albuquerque new mexico

50
00:04:44,710 --> 00:04:41,840
on july 4th

51
00:04:47,110 --> 00:04:44,720
this was uh approximately the

52
00:04:49,270 --> 00:04:47,120
it was the day before we went out on the

53
00:04:50,150 --> 00:04:49,280
planes of saint augustine

54
00:04:53,990 --> 00:04:50,160
with

55
00:04:56,469 --> 00:04:54,000
my uncle ted my cousin victor my father

56
00:04:57,749 --> 00:04:56,479
my brother glenn and myself we drove

57
00:04:59,749 --> 00:04:57,759
down to the

58
00:05:01,590 --> 00:04:59,759
plains of saint augustine which is west

59
00:05:04,469 --> 00:05:01,600
of socorro new mexico

60
00:05:06,790 --> 00:05:04,479
in the magdalena daddle area and we were

61
00:05:08,150 --> 00:05:06,800
down there looking for banded in moss

62
00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:08,160
again which

63
00:05:12,469 --> 00:05:10,720
according to my uncle ted and my cousin

64
00:05:14,310 --> 00:05:12,479
victor was

65
00:05:15,670 --> 00:05:14,320
prevalent in the area and my brother

66
00:05:17,749 --> 00:05:15,680
being an

67
00:05:19,350 --> 00:05:17,759
amateur rock hat and wanted to get some

68
00:05:21,749 --> 00:05:19,360
of this and it was a way of showing us

69
00:05:23,110 --> 00:05:21,759
around the area and they had relatives

70
00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:23,120
down in

71
00:05:26,070 --> 00:05:24,960
magdalena that they wanted to introduce

72
00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:26,080
us to

73
00:05:30,710 --> 00:05:28,880
so we had gone down there

74
00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:30,720
and uh

75
00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:32,960
we got down in the horse springs area

76
00:05:37,750 --> 00:05:34,080
and had

77
00:05:40,870 --> 00:05:37,760
driven off onto the plains down an old

78
00:05:42,629 --> 00:05:40,880
[Music]

79
00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:42,639
a mile or so

80
00:05:47,830 --> 00:05:45,600
and uh seemed like a long ways

81
00:05:50,830 --> 00:05:47,840
we parked the car got out of the car and

82
00:05:53,110 --> 00:05:50,840
walked down the hillside at a

83
00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:53,120
semi forested i guess you could say it

84
00:05:57,350 --> 00:05:55,360
had pinyon trees and scrub oak and stuff

85
00:06:00,230 --> 00:05:57,360
like that on it and we'd walk to all

86
00:06:04,150 --> 00:06:00,240
that scrub over the cedar and walk down

87
00:06:07,110 --> 00:06:04,160
the hillside into an arroyo a dry wash

88
00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:07,120
and then walked south down to dry wash

89
00:06:10,309 --> 00:06:09,120
toward where the agates were supposed to

90
00:06:12,629 --> 00:06:10,319
be at

91
00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:12,639
and as we came around a bend in the

92
00:06:16,070 --> 00:06:14,720
arroyo that had

93
00:06:17,990 --> 00:06:16,080
pinyon and

94
00:06:19,990 --> 00:06:18,000
cedar trees growing on

95
00:06:23,189 --> 00:06:20,000
we were able to see farther ahead down

96
00:06:25,990 --> 00:06:23,199
the arroyo and on the next ridgeline

97
00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:26,000
there was a large silver disc shaped

98
00:06:29,189 --> 00:06:27,440
object

99
00:06:32,550 --> 00:06:29,199
was embedded in the side of the

100
00:06:34,870 --> 00:06:32,560
ridgeline and there was debris and

101
00:06:38,950 --> 00:06:34,880
wreckage and stuff string about the area

102
00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:38,960
but mainly this thing was intact

103
00:06:43,510 --> 00:06:41,280
i would estimate its size from an adult

104
00:06:46,790 --> 00:06:43,520
perspective to be something like 35 feet

105
00:06:49,270 --> 00:06:46,800
in diameter i've heard other people who

106
00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:49,280
were there say they thought it was like

107
00:06:55,189 --> 00:06:51,680
50 feet but as an adult i would say

108
00:06:57,589 --> 00:06:55,199
about 35 feet in diameter quite large

109
00:07:01,350 --> 00:06:57,599
when we got up to it

110
00:07:02,710 --> 00:07:01,360
there were four bodies there

111
00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:02,720
not human

112
00:07:06,550 --> 00:07:05,440
there was two of them who were obviously

113
00:07:09,270 --> 00:07:06,560
dead

114
00:07:12,309 --> 00:07:09,280
one of them was obviously very badly

115
00:07:14,230 --> 00:07:12,319
injured and one of it apparently

116
00:07:17,110 --> 00:07:14,240
suffered no ill effects or it didn't

117
00:07:19,670 --> 00:07:17,120
appear to be injured and was

118
00:07:22,469 --> 00:07:19,680
was handled before it was mobile now we

119
00:07:24,550 --> 00:07:22,479
just set it there next to the one that

120
00:07:26,390 --> 00:07:24,560
was still alive that appeared were they

121
00:07:28,150 --> 00:07:26,400
right next to the vehicle right next to

122
00:07:31,029 --> 00:07:28,160
it right under the edge of it

123
00:07:34,550 --> 00:07:31,039
and this craft had apparently come in

124
00:07:37,430 --> 00:07:34,560
from the east bounced off one ridgeline

125
00:07:39,670 --> 00:07:37,440
went plowing through this arroyo area

126
00:07:41,909 --> 00:07:39,680
and then crashed into the

127
00:07:42,790 --> 00:07:41,919
ridgeline and embedded itself

128
00:07:44,710 --> 00:07:42,800
and

129
00:07:46,309 --> 00:07:44,720
they were sitting back under the edge it

130
00:07:48,790 --> 00:07:46,319
was kind of tilted up like this and they

131
00:07:49,830 --> 00:07:48,800
were sitting back under the edge here

132
00:07:51,990 --> 00:07:49,840
and

133
00:07:53,670 --> 00:07:52,000
i'm assuming that this one creature that

134
00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:53,680
was all right had

135
00:07:57,510 --> 00:07:55,440
laid this material on the ground but it

136
00:08:00,070 --> 00:07:57,520
looked like unrolled the

137
00:08:03,110 --> 00:08:00,080
tinfoil that these other three creatures

138
00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:03,120
were laying on like it was trying like

139
00:08:07,430 --> 00:08:05,039
like you do a person in shotgun put them

140
00:08:09,749 --> 00:08:07,440
on a blanket kind of thing and

141
00:08:11,589 --> 00:08:09,759
apparently it had some boxes there

142
00:08:14,150 --> 00:08:11,599
around it

143
00:08:15,830 --> 00:08:14,160
and had apparently been trying to

144
00:08:18,309 --> 00:08:15,840
get first aid or help these other

145
00:08:21,029 --> 00:08:18,319
creatures when we first got there

146
00:08:23,270 --> 00:08:21,039
and as we approached

147
00:08:25,029 --> 00:08:23,280
the creature drew back like this like it

148
00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:25,039
was in fear of us like we're going to

149
00:08:27,270 --> 00:08:26,560
hurt it

150
00:08:29,029 --> 00:08:27,280
and

151
00:08:31,270 --> 00:08:29,039
it wasn't very long you know trying to

152
00:08:34,070 --> 00:08:31,280
communicate with the adults were

153
00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:34,080
it seemed to calm down and just sat

154
00:08:37,670 --> 00:08:35,680
there and kind of looked back and forth

155
00:08:39,029 --> 00:08:37,680
watching them apparently trying to

156
00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:39,039
figure out

157
00:08:44,070 --> 00:08:40,800
what was going on like what did it look

158
00:08:46,070 --> 00:08:44,080
like a little bit more these creatures

159
00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:46,080
all of them were all about four foot

160
00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:48,800
tall four four and a half feet tall

161
00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:50,800
they had very large heads were shaped

162
00:08:55,269 --> 00:08:52,880
larger on the top and they kind of

163
00:08:56,790 --> 00:08:55,279
tapered down not to a real sharp point

164
00:08:57,670 --> 00:08:56,800
but just tapered down where they were

165
00:09:00,470 --> 00:08:57,680
thin

166
00:09:03,430 --> 00:09:00,480
and they had very large

167
00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:03,440
very large oval shape or almond shaped i

168
00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:05,760
guess you could say black eyes

169
00:09:10,389 --> 00:09:08,080
that had they were so shiny they had

170
00:09:12,310 --> 00:09:10,399
almost a bluish tint to them when the

171
00:09:15,990 --> 00:09:12,320
light reflected off of them

172
00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:18,230
the best way i could describe that is

173
00:09:24,070 --> 00:09:22,000
kind of a bluish tinted milky white

174
00:09:25,430 --> 00:09:24,080
it was uh it looked like someone in

175
00:09:27,269 --> 00:09:25,440
shock

176
00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:27,279
and the ones that were laying on the

177
00:09:33,190 --> 00:09:29,200
ground were really

178
00:09:35,430 --> 00:09:33,200
really looked more that way more blue

179
00:09:38,310 --> 00:09:35,440
how about ears nose no there was there

180
00:09:40,150 --> 00:09:38,320
was no visible ears on the

181
00:09:42,150 --> 00:09:40,160
creatures except like if you was just to

182
00:09:44,870 --> 00:09:42,160
cover your ear like this to whether it

183
00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:44,880
was just a riser and then a hole

184
00:09:50,949 --> 00:09:47,600
without you know your earlobe and the

185
00:09:54,470 --> 00:09:50,959
rest of the ear there about nose

186
00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:54,480
it was the nose was very very small

187
00:09:59,190 --> 00:09:56,320
almost imperceptible

188
00:10:01,590 --> 00:09:59,200
uh just like two holes straight in and

189
00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:01,600
the lips were

190
00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:03,279
just a straight line

191
00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:05,920
it's like a cut and you couldn't see any

192
00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:07,760
invisible lips like we have it's just a

193
00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:08,800
slit

194
00:10:11,269 --> 00:10:09,519
and

195
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,279
whatever it sound

196
00:10:15,750 --> 00:10:13,600
part what hair color there were was no

197
00:10:16,550 --> 00:10:15,760
hair they were completely both and no

198
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:16,560
sound

199
00:10:22,069 --> 00:10:20,480
of the creatures including one of those

200
00:10:23,829 --> 00:10:22,079
did you see fingers

201
00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:23,839
yeah they had

202
00:10:27,269 --> 00:10:25,279
they had fingers like this they didn't

203
00:10:29,110 --> 00:10:27,279
have a little finger they just had the

204
00:10:31,190 --> 00:10:29,120
thumb had three

205
00:10:33,269 --> 00:10:31,200
extra digits except the center digit was

206
00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:33,279
longer and the other two were about the

207
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:35,200
same size they were very long and

208
00:10:39,509 --> 00:10:37,920
slender they looked very delicate and

209
00:10:40,870 --> 00:10:39,519
i've made the statement before and i

210
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:40,880
don't make it again i think they would

211
00:10:44,389 --> 00:10:42,880
have been an excellent violinist

212
00:10:46,949 --> 00:10:44,399
because of the the

213
00:10:49,670 --> 00:10:46,959
structure of their hands um they were

214
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,680
wearing one-piece suits all of them were

215
00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:51,519
dressed exactly the same it was sort of

216
00:10:58,150 --> 00:10:55,200
a real shiny silvery gray color no

217
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,160
zippers buttons no i saw no zippers no

218
00:11:02,630 --> 00:11:00,399
buttons insignia

219
00:11:04,870 --> 00:11:02,640
no no in sickness the only thing that

220
00:11:06,069 --> 00:11:04,880
was different you know they all had this

221
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:06,079
but the only thing that was different

222
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:08,240
from the the silvery

223
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:09,600
gray thing

224
00:11:14,870 --> 00:11:13,200
suit was down like the seam one like it

225
00:11:16,470 --> 00:11:14,880
was a seam on the shoulder and around

226
00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:16,480
the collar it was trimmed in what

227
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,160
appeared to be maroon

228
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:21,990
then

229
00:11:24,870 --> 00:11:23,760
the suits were continuous with their

230
00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:24,880
foot here

231
00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:27,360
you could see right about this area down

232
00:11:31,430 --> 00:11:29,680
it seemed to be less pliable it wasn't

233
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:31,440
feel like this was a stiffer area like

234
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:34,000
they were boots or shoes or something

235
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:35,680
but they were all dressed exactly the

236
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:36,480
same

237
00:11:42,310 --> 00:11:39,760
okay so you and your family are

238
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,320
talking back and forth wondering what

239
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:44,240
was going on what did your family say i

240
00:11:48,069 --> 00:11:45,680
mean

241
00:11:49,750 --> 00:11:48,079
yeah my brother one of the first remarks

242
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:49,760
i heard you made was

243
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:52,480
that's a goddamn spaceship

244
00:11:56,870 --> 00:11:55,120
uh you know there was bodies up there

245
00:11:58,389 --> 00:11:56,880
and you know i was told not to go

246
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:58,399
through which i did

247
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:00,800
and uh how old was your brother at the

248
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:03,680
time he was in his early 20s i think 20

249
00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:04,880
20 months

250
00:12:07,910 --> 00:12:06,560
he was a lot older than you oh yes

251
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:07,920
considerably

252
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:09,600
uh

253
00:12:14,710 --> 00:12:11,440
we

254
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,720
meandered off to one side this thing was

255
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:17,040
cocked up and i was standing here the

256
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:19,120
bodies were here and everybody else was

257
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,639
kind of down here except my cousin

258
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:22,399
victor was over here playing looking in

259
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,720
his gaping hole on the side of this

260
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:27,120
this disc and it's shaped just like a

261
00:12:31,670 --> 00:12:29,920
discus except for a round dome was up on

262
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:31,680
top and there was this big gaming gash

263
00:12:35,910 --> 00:12:33,279
here where you could see inside that

264
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:35,920
look like a double hall how big the

265
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:41,269
well

266
00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:43,680
it uh covered the greater majority from

267
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:45,600
the center of the craft out it was just

268
00:12:50,949 --> 00:12:49,279
like a gaping hole in there and i'm

269
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:50,959
thinking you know that's like about 30

270
00:12:55,670 --> 00:12:53,040
feet 35 feet in diameter so we're

271
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:55,680
talking about 17 feet maybe

272
00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:57,680
and most of most of that one side was

273
00:13:00,710 --> 00:12:59,360
ripped open like that and you could see

274
00:13:02,710 --> 00:13:00,720
inside

275
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:02,720
and you could see another

276
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:05,279
double hall like

277
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:06,959
and there and there was just rows of

278
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,480
components

279
00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:10,480
that was on there and there was lights

280
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:12,399
that flashed

281
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,079
on some of them were steady some were

282
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:16,240
flashing there was a lot of debris and

283
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:19,279
stuff hanging out of the hole

284
00:13:22,389 --> 00:13:20,959
there was uh evidence that there had

285
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:22,399
apparently been fire it looked like it

286
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,920
had been burnt along the edge there

287
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,920
the gas now this wasn't a gas that could

288
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,600
have been caused by the thing coming

289
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,040
into the ground

290
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:32,639
it wasn't at the leading edge of the

291
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:33,600
vehicle

292
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:36,320
no no this was in the side like

293
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:38,720
it almost appeared it was elliptical

294
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:40,880
it almost appeared as if something the

295
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:43,120
same shape as

296
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,440
the disc we were looking at had hit that

297
00:13:49,110 --> 00:13:47,519
that same and it hit the disc and left

298
00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:49,120
an imprint that

299
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:51,040
pretty closely approximated the outside

300
00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:53,360
diameter of the disc itself

301
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:57,040
and uh it appeared to be caved inward

302
00:14:02,790 --> 00:14:00,079
okay and and kind of like you'd hit it

303
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:02,800
like i said just crumpled and caved in

304
00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,360
and ripped it open uh

305
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:07,680
okay so you're you're there you you take

306
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,160
all this and everybody's misdefined what

307
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:12,880
were the circumstances outside hot cold

308
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:15,760
very very hot and crap well to me

309
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:17,680
being the first time in new mexico and

310
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,160
coming from back east that dry heat was

311
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:22,480
just like being inside of a

312
00:14:27,269 --> 00:14:25,760
oven it was unbelievable to me and

313
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:27,279
that was the odd part about this thing

314
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:29,120
the closer you got to it the cooler it

315
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:30,720
was

316
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:33,839
and standing under it in the shade there

317
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:36,320
next to these creatures bodies it was

318
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:38,240
like

319
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:40,720
refrigerated air conditioning and

320
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:42,399
did you feel air coming out of this

321
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:45,360
thing no it was just like it was ambedia

322
00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:47,440
and i remember

323
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:49,279
reaching up and putting my hand on the

324
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,800
side of it that i think i was afraid it

325
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:52,560
was going to hit my head because there

326
00:14:56,230 --> 00:14:54,639
was enough room for me as a small child

327
00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:56,240
you know

328
00:14:59,590 --> 00:14:57,760
i was approximately the same size of

329
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:59,600
these creatures to to walk up under

330
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,600
there and stand in there but i i

331
00:15:05,189 --> 00:15:03,360
kind of did like that put my hand up

332
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:05,199
against this thing what did it feel it

333
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:07,519
was ice cold it felt like it just came

334
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,399
out of her

335
00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:10,720
freezer was it smooth was it

336
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,800
it was very smooth it

337
00:15:16,710 --> 00:15:14,560
had a very smooth texture to it was

338
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:16,720
obviously made out of metal it was very

339
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:17,760
solid

340
00:15:23,350 --> 00:15:21,040
and it was very cold ice cold

341
00:15:24,829 --> 00:15:23,360
and there was a smell in the area it

342
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:24,839
smelled

343
00:15:30,310 --> 00:15:28,399
volatile acreage like uh acetone

344
00:15:32,230 --> 00:15:30,320
and that seemed to be coming out of that

345
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,240
gash that smell

346
00:15:35,749 --> 00:15:33,920
uh

347
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,759
but the closer you got this thing the

348
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:37,279
cooler it was so like you know i kind of

349
00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:39,120
remained there and i guess the wall they

350
00:15:43,509 --> 00:15:42,079
were over here my father and

351
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,519
my uncle ted

352
00:15:46,710 --> 00:15:45,120
and my brother and

353
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:46,720
uncle ted was trying to talk to this

354
00:15:51,269 --> 00:15:49,440
thing in spanish and of course it didn't

355
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:51,279
understand what he said

356
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:53,040
and dad tried to talk to it and they

357
00:15:56,470 --> 00:15:54,720
tried you know sign language and that

358
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:56,480
didn't work and uh

359
00:16:03,189 --> 00:16:00,240
i don't know for some reason i just uh

360
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,199
i reached down and touched it just one

361
00:16:06,389 --> 00:16:05,279
that was laying next to me

362
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,399
and

363
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:08,399
when i touched it i realized you know i

364
00:16:11,749 --> 00:16:09,519
jumped back

365
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,759
it scared me and startled me because i

366
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:13,600
suddenly realized that these weren't

367
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:16,399
dolls i thought they were plastic dolls

368
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:18,639
and i you know still in my mind these

369
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:21,040
are moving dolls

370
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:22,959
until i touched it and i realized you

371
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:25,600
know this was a dead thing i'd been i'd

372
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:28,079
seen dead relatives before and i

373
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:29,759
unfortunately had made the mistake one

374
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,680
time touching a relative it was in a

375
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:34,000
casket and i just knew

376
00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:37,279
this is a dead thing and it scared me

377
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:39,759
and i ran around behind my father

378
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:42,639
and my uncle and um

379
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,920
this thing was sitting there on the

380
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,600
ground and it kept looking back and

381
00:16:48,870 --> 00:16:47,279
forth and it just had its hands like it

382
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,880
said it's laughing and just kept looking

383
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,279
back and forth between

384
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:53,279
the three of them and

385
00:16:57,590 --> 00:16:56,000
like it was trying to understand and all

386
00:17:00,389 --> 00:16:57,600
of a sudden it just turned it looked

387
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:00,399
right straight at me between my uncle

388
00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:03,680
ted and myself and

389
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:05,120
this is when

390
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:07,199
it was just like an explosion of things

391
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:09,679
in my head things i started you know

392
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:12,480
feeling just terrible depression

393
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:15,360
loneliness and fear and

394
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:16,319
just

395
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:20,880
suddenly burst into my mind and i don't

396
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:22,000
know

397
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,280
if that meant

398
00:17:25,990 --> 00:17:24,959
that it was communicating with me and i

399
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:26,000
was the only one there i could

400
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:28,480
communicate with because i was a kid i i

401
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,520
don't know i turned and ran and i ran

402
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:33,840
across the arroyo and up on the area

403
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:36,960
that it had bounced off during the crash

404
00:17:41,430 --> 00:17:39,440
i was just standing looking down at the

405
00:17:43,510 --> 00:17:41,440
scene you know and

406
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,520
my family and

407
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:45,760
off in the distance i could see cattle

408
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:48,160
grazing i could see a windmill

409
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:51,280
i could see dust trails i don't know

410
00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:54,640
plya i don't know planes out there

411
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:56,960
and uh oh i was there for a while and

412
00:18:01,350 --> 00:17:59,120
then i came back down i guess we were

413
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:01,360
there you know

414
00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:03,760
victor was in when i got back down here

415
00:18:07,430 --> 00:18:06,000
victor was up in the crack and

416
00:18:08,789 --> 00:18:07,440
ted yelled at him to get out of there

417
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:08,799
and glenn went over and grabbed me by

418
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:10,160
the belt and jerry came on that's your

419
00:18:13,110 --> 00:18:11,440
brother yeah

420
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:13,120
and jerked him off and said get out of

421
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:14,320
there you could cause this thing to

422
00:18:17,350 --> 00:18:15,760
explode and kill us all you know and

423
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:17,360
then of course he went crawling around

424
00:18:21,110 --> 00:18:18,559
in there

425
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:21,120
uh i was kind of standing on the one

426
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,480
side looking that's why i knew that

427
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:24,640
there was i could look off these rocks

428
00:18:28,390 --> 00:18:26,320
that i was standing right into this

429
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,400
thing that's why i knew you know about

430
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:30,480
the lights and the components and stuff

431
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:31,440
and then

432
00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,440
i heard other people talking and i

433
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,520
turned and there was a group of people

434
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:38,160
coming up the arroyo from out on the

435
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,280
planes

436
00:18:42,789 --> 00:18:41,039
from the south they'd come up there and

437
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:42,799
of course they walked up and was talking

438
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:43,600
and

439
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,799
uh how many uh there was uh an older man

440
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:48,480
and five younger

441
00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:49,679
students

442
00:18:53,029 --> 00:18:51,840
boys girls there's three boys and two

443
00:18:56,230 --> 00:18:53,039
girls

444
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:56,240
and they were all you know introducing

445
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:57,760
talking to

446
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,480
my father and my uncle my brother what'd

447
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:02,160
the older one look like

448
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:05,679
the the leader of this group of man

449
00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:09,120
he was a very tall man very big man

450
00:19:12,070 --> 00:19:10,720
he was wearing a pith helmet when he

451
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:12,080
first came up one of those kind of

452
00:19:15,909 --> 00:19:13,760
explorer helmets

453
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,919
and uh he was bald and i know that

454
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,520
because he had taken it off and he had

455
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,960
done this you know a couple times from

456
00:19:22,150 --> 00:19:20,480
the handkerchief and put it back on he

457
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,160
was a balding man

458
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:24,880
and he had a round face he was very

459
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,390
and he apparently was a doctor because

460
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:34,880
these they kept calling doctor as i

461
00:19:37,669 --> 00:19:36,720
understand it was an archaeological

462
00:19:39,190 --> 00:19:37,679
group

463
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,200
that was out there on some kind of

464
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,640
summer thing

465
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:42,960
and

466
00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:46,880
able to speak

467
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:48,720
several foreign languages

468
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:50,960
and he tried to talk to this creature

469
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,720
several times in different languages

470
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:54,720
again to no avail

471
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:56,160
how did that happen to be there had he

472
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,760
seen the thing well they claimed that

473
00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:59,760
they saw they said they saw this thing

474
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:01,679
come down the night before

475
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,600
flaming you know and they thought it was

476
00:20:07,750 --> 00:20:05,360
a meteorite

477
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:07,760
and they had talked about well in the

478
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,600
morning you know we'll go over there and

479
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:11,280
see this where this meteor came down

480
00:20:15,270 --> 00:20:13,440
because that's what they thought it was

481
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:15,280
and when the sun came up the next

482
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:16,880
morning you know and they got about

483
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,960
their business and got up and somebody

484
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:20,880
looked over and said you know they saw

485
00:20:24,950 --> 00:20:23,360
the shiny metal and stuff across the

486
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,960
plains there and they realized it wasn't

487
00:20:27,669 --> 00:20:26,960
a meteorite it may have been an airplane

488
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,679
and

489
00:20:31,350 --> 00:20:29,600
that cries so they all decided to go

490
00:20:34,870 --> 00:20:31,360
over there and see if there was anybody

491
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:34,880
who was alive you know it was hurt

492
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:37,200
no they walked over apparently

493
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:39,679
the way i understand it

494
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:43,200
uh and it's quite a ways across that

495
00:20:47,750 --> 00:20:45,520
plane so it had to take a

496
00:20:49,270 --> 00:20:47,760
very long time to do this

497
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,280
or they may have had a vehicle i don't

498
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:51,200
know that's an assumption i think on my

499
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:53,039
part

500
00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:55,280
so they're around but they came across

501
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:57,919
the planes nonetheless i'm not sure if

502
00:21:02,390 --> 00:20:59,840
they drove or not i didn't hear any cars

503
00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:02,400
and then somebody else showed up

504
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:05,600
yeah they were down there just oh 15

505
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,559
maybe 20 minutes the tops you know and

506
00:21:11,590 --> 00:21:10,000
they were picking up things some of the

507
00:21:13,990 --> 00:21:11,600
students and

508
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:14,000
this doctor buzzkirk that they called

509
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:14,720
him

510
00:21:19,830 --> 00:21:17,520
this one girl went up and said look

511
00:21:21,190 --> 00:21:19,840
doctor wouldn't this make a beautiful

512
00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:21,200
ring and she was holding what looked

513
00:21:26,310 --> 00:21:23,840
like a a red rod

514
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:26,320
or a red tube and some kind of kind of a

515
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:27,840
silvery red

516
00:21:32,630 --> 00:21:28,799
and

517
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:32,640
put that down agnes you don't know what

518
00:21:35,590 --> 00:21:34,080
that is i think it hurts you just don't

519
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:35,600
pick this stuff up

520
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:37,919
and she kind of said well yeah okay

521
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:39,760
doctor and then he went back to what he

522
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,280
was doing and she walked away and put in

523
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,720
her pocket

524
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,400
and a lot of them were doing this sort

525
00:21:47,909 --> 00:21:46,080
of picking up things and feeling things

526
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,919
i was picking up things and feeling

527
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,600
things there was

528
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,840
all kinds of material metal and stuff

529
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,280
laying around then we heard it i heard

530
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,600
it well we all heard a sound of a motor

531
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,280
coming like a truck

532
00:22:02,070 --> 00:21:59,600
and i went back up the the incline there

533
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:02,080
to the to the ridge line and i could see

534
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:03,760
out there and there was a truck coming

535
00:22:07,750 --> 00:22:06,240
up it was an old pickup truck

536
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,760
it was sort of a

537
00:22:12,230 --> 00:22:09,760
beige color or a tan colored thing it

538
00:22:14,710 --> 00:22:12,240
had a whip antenna on it and it stopped

539
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:14,720
and this guy got out he's wearing brown

540
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:17,440
clothes he's got boots on

541
00:22:21,430 --> 00:22:19,200
and he's wearing a straw hat just like

542
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:21,440
the kind harry truman always wore

543
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:24,480
and he had wire rib glasses he was a big

544
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:26,720
man and he looked exactly like harry

545
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:28,400
truman to me and now you know i'd seen

546
00:22:31,669 --> 00:22:30,400
in the movie tone news that

547
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:31,679
he was president

548
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:33,840
yeah i was well aware who harry truman

549
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:35,919
was so everybody was he's kind of a hero

550
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:37,840
you know and this guy looked like him

551
00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:39,360
except bigger

552
00:22:42,630 --> 00:22:40,640
bigger and i don't think he and he

553
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:42,640
didn't look as old either

554
00:22:45,590 --> 00:22:44,720
uh his hair was

555
00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:45,600
kind of

556
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:47,120
light gray

557
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:50,080
and uh he walked over there and they got

558
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:51,520
to talking you know

559
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:53,039
with everybody and

560
00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,799
he told them that he worked out on the

561
00:22:58,950 --> 00:22:56,799
planes out there and that he made maps

562
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:58,960
and if he had seen

563
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,200
the the wreckage from out there on the

564
00:23:04,390 --> 00:23:02,880
plains and he saw the people and he

565
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:04,400
thought it was a plane wreck and you

566
00:23:08,789 --> 00:23:06,240
know just something was going on he came

567
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:08,799
over there to see and he hadn't been

568
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:11,600
there but just a very very few minutes

569
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:12,400
when

570
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:16,080
we heard all kinds of motors and engines

571
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:17,919
straining and stuff

572
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,120
and uh here comes a

573
00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:23,120
military car with a big white star on

574
00:23:26,390 --> 00:23:25,280
the side of it followed by a six by

575
00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:26,400
which is a

576
00:23:29,990 --> 00:23:27,520
military

577
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:30,000
truck with a kind of canvas

578
00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:31,600
wagon

579
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:33,520
type of canvas thing over it is full of

580
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:36,880
soldiers that got guns and right behind

581
00:23:40,590 --> 00:23:39,280
that was what we call four by

582
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,600
which is like a

583
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,240
medium-sized

584
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,400
jeep truck situation and had two big

585
00:23:48,549 --> 00:23:46,960
high wood antennas all kinds of radio

586
00:23:51,029 --> 00:23:48,559
gear in the back and a guy back there

587
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:51,039
with earphones and stuff on and he's

588
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:52,720
you know working these radios and they

589
00:23:56,950 --> 00:23:54,880
all pulled up and stopped

590
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:56,960
and uh which direction had they come

591
00:24:01,750 --> 00:23:59,919
from they came from from the north from

592
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,760
the horse springs area

593
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,200
so they could have come off the highway

594
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:05,120
there oh yeah i'm sure that's exactly

595
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:06,240
how they got there they come off the

596
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,919
highway same way we did

597
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,240
well in the meantime that when it

598
00:24:14,950 --> 00:24:11,760
stopped the

599
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:14,960
this black soldier the sergeant and the

600
00:24:19,110 --> 00:24:16,400
reason i know he was a sergeant my

601
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:19,120
brother told me he was and

602
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:20,559
he got out of this

603
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:22,159
this car

604
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:24,960
and then a guy got out on the other side

605
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,760
and he was glenn said he was it was a

606
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:29,279
captain he told me later he was a

607
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:30,799
captain

608
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:34,240
and this guy had orange red hair

609
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:36,480
and uh

610
00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:38,320
all the soldiers of them came running

611
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:40,240
over there pointing guns at people and

612
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:42,000
tell them get away get away get away you

613
00:24:45,110 --> 00:24:42,880
know

614
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,120
and when this creature

615
00:24:48,789 --> 00:24:47,039
saw these people

616
00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:48,799
the military

617
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:51,600
he went nuts he went into an absolute

618
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,760
panic worse than what he did when he saw

619
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:55,279
us

620
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:00,880
went crazy

621
00:25:04,230 --> 00:25:02,559
and it was like he was looking careful

622
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:04,240
yeah like like he's looking for a place

623
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,000
to run and hide

624
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:08,000
but he never got up never got it he

625
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:09,360
never left

626
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:11,840
the one injured one next to him

627
00:25:15,909 --> 00:25:13,360
and uh

628
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:15,919
this red-headed officer

629
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:18,480
this guy was a real butthole

630
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,360
uh he made all the threats he threatened

631
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:23,760
to have people shot

632
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:25,840
they didn't lose everybody oh yeah get

633
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,480
away get away you know we'll shoot get

634
00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:30,240
away from there this is a military

635
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:31,679
secret you know just screaming and

636
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:34,559
hollering and he told my my uncle and my

637
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,640
father that if they didn't want to spend

638
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,559
the rest of their life in prison

639
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,880
they would never say anything about what

640
00:25:44,470 --> 00:25:42,640
they saw there if they ever wanted to

641
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,480
see us kids again they'd take the kids

642
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:46,000
away and they'd never see the kids you

643
00:25:48,549 --> 00:25:47,120
mean me

644
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,559
and victor

645
00:25:52,470 --> 00:25:50,559
that we'd better keep our mouths shut if

646
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,480
we did not this is what was going to

647
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:54,240
happen they were

648
00:25:58,710 --> 00:25:56,400
threatening people and pushing people

649
00:26:01,029 --> 00:25:58,720
and students as well oh yeah they were

650
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:01,039
they were hustling everybody and one of

651
00:26:06,789 --> 00:26:04,799
the soldiers uh pushed my my uncle he

652
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:06,799
had a rifle i guess he showed me back

653
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:07,919
like that well that was something you

654
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:10,400
don't do to my uncle ted

655
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,880
ted had a violent temper and he grabbed

656
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:14,480
the rifle and reached over top and he

657
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:16,400
smacked this guy and dropped him right

658
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:17,200
there

659
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,480
and ted had dropped the fight and

660
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:20,480
dropped the hat this guy's a cowboy he

661
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,240
hit he'll hit you in a minute

662
00:26:27,269 --> 00:26:24,559
and of course when he did that

663
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:27,279
there was bulls opened and i guess

664
00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:28,960
cocking you know they were cocking their

665
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:30,240
rifles and

666
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:33,039
they're pointing guns at people and uh

667
00:26:38,149 --> 00:26:35,919
everybody busker and glenn and dad

668
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:38,159
grabbed him you know pulled him back and

669
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,679
got him away don't don't man they're

670
00:26:43,510 --> 00:26:41,039
going to shoot don't do that you know

671
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:43,520
trying to stop this i think we came very

672
00:26:51,269 --> 00:26:49,110
then they really started threatening you

673
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:51,279
know when they interview did the redhead

674
00:26:55,269 --> 00:26:53,039
do all the talking pretty much too

675
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:55,279
pretty much except once in a while the

676
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:57,360
sergeant would you know

677
00:27:01,590 --> 00:26:59,919
chime in and make statements like that

678
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:01,600
to other people in response to the

679
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,640
reddit

680
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:04,320
mainly it was the redhead was there a

681
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:05,520
name tag

682
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,600
yes there was and

683
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,360
his name was armstrong

684
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:11,039
and i'm

685
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:13,600
not sure if i know that from having read

686
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:14,400
it

687
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:21,120
in my memory or if someone said that to

688
00:27:25,029 --> 00:27:23,279
me but his name was armstrong was right

689
00:27:27,190 --> 00:27:25,039
here on his uniform now they chased you

690
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,200
guys away pretty quick

691
00:27:31,669 --> 00:27:28,960
yeah yeah they did

692
00:27:33,909 --> 00:27:31,679
and uh they herded us up on cattle and

693
00:27:35,750 --> 00:27:33,919
they moved us up the arroyo back in the

694
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:35,760
direction we've come from over the

695
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,480
protest of this dr buzzkirk who said no

696
00:27:42,549 --> 00:27:40,559
no we've got to go the other way we

697
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:42,559
can't i don't care where you came from

698
00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:45,679
get your ass up the the arroyo

699
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,520
and we're to your royal and uh so you

700
00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:51,440
get to your car and then right now they

701
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,360
take us up to arroyo and just below the

702
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:55,440
hill that we came down they broke us off

703
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,200
and moved us up the hill

704
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:59,679
now this whole time no one has ever

705
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:01,520
frisked us down no one has ever checked

706
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:03,440
our pockets to see if we picked up any

707
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:05,200
material and

708
00:28:08,950 --> 00:28:07,760
this girl agnes still has that stuff in

709
00:28:11,110 --> 00:28:08,960
her pocket and some of the other

710
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:11,120
students had stuff

711
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:14,000
uh to my knowledge at up to that point

712
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:16,080
they had not been searched whether they

713
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:18,399
did so afterward i don't know they never

714
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:20,960
searched us ever they run us back up the

715
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,559
hill

716
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,159
and uh

717
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:26,080
when we got to where the car was parked

718
00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,600
where daddy parked the car up there

719
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:29,919
there's a jeep with a guy sitting in the

720
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,000
back and there's a mounted machine gun

721
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:33,840
in the back of this jeep and all these

722
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:34,960
soldiers

723
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:37,679
the jeep pulls out we're told to get in

724
00:28:41,590 --> 00:28:39,840
the car we follow the jeep and the

725
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:41,600
soldiers go with us

726
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:43,760
all the way back out to the highway

727
00:28:47,590 --> 00:28:46,080
when we get back out to the highway

728
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:47,600
they set us right there they wouldn't

729
00:28:50,710 --> 00:28:48,960
let us out of the car they wouldn't let

730
00:28:52,070 --> 00:28:50,720
us move forward i don't know where they

731
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:52,080
were making a decision or what when we

732
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:53,840
got out the highway this place was

733
00:28:58,470 --> 00:28:55,760
absolutely full

734
00:29:00,230 --> 00:28:58,480
of military personnel military equipment

735
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,240
there was airplanes sitting out there

736
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:02,559
that it landed on the highway did you

737
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:04,000
see any airplanes when you were back at

738
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:06,000
the sun yeah there was airplanes in the

739
00:29:09,430 --> 00:29:08,080
sky but nobody thought much about it you

740
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:09,440
know i didn't think anything about it i

741
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:11,279
was used to airplanes being in the sky

742
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:12,799
having you know been raised in

743
00:29:16,230 --> 00:29:14,480
indianapolis indiana the home of the

744
00:29:17,990 --> 00:29:16,240
northern bomb site you know the sky was

745
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:18,000
always full of military aircraft i never

746
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:19,600
thought nothing about it

747
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,360
and when we get back onto the highway

748
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,360
there's observation aircraft you know

749
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:25,600
high-winged aircraft and there's one

750
00:29:30,389 --> 00:29:28,480
what i know now to be a c-47 centenary

751
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:30,399
and how we didn't hear that lens beyond

752
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,120
me

753
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,640
and how you land well of course i guess

754
00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:34,159
you could land if you're a good pilot

755
00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:35,520
out there there's another

756
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:37,120
pulse

757
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:39,840
and it was they had torn the fence down

758
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,640
on the north side of that highway and

759
00:29:45,990 --> 00:29:44,640
all this equipment was setting back up

760
00:29:47,909 --> 00:29:46,000
here that plane was up there and they

761
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,919
were taking stuff out of the plane

762
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:50,399
there was military ambulances and there

763
00:29:55,430 --> 00:29:52,960
was trucks with like

764
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,440
wreckers cranes on it

765
00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:57,520
and there was

766
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,080
tankers like maybe had fuel or water in

767
00:30:04,789 --> 00:30:02,480
them it was just everywhere you looked

768
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:04,799
there was military and a major recovery

769
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,159
operation

770
00:30:11,029 --> 00:30:08,399
yeah it looked like an invasion for us

771
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:11,039
it really did and they were all wearing

772
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:14,559
these these light light khaki

773
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:16,399
uniforms they didn't look like you know

774
00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:19,120
ollie drafts they were like khaki and

775
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:21,120
they all had the same patch over there

776
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:23,520
that kind of blue funny patch with the

777
00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:25,760
the circles on it was was on her

778
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:26,960
shoulder

779
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:29,120
and a lot of any clue as to where they

780
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:31,520
came from did your brother

781
00:30:36,310 --> 00:30:34,640
i i don't know where they came from

782
00:30:38,389 --> 00:30:36,320
i don't think anybody ever ascertained

783
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:38,399
that um

784
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,960
there were a lot of them had mp patches

785
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:42,159
and there were and some of them were

786
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:44,640
wearing night sticks off of these uh

787
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:46,320
webbed utility belts they had night

788
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:48,720
sticks and they had 45s and hosters you

789
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:51,200
know the automatics and the full

790
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:52,320
roadster

791
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:53,840
and these were the people who were given

792
00:30:57,750 --> 00:30:56,080
most of the orders

793
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:57,760
they had the road barricaded off out

794
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:59,360
there and we sat there for a very long

795
00:31:03,190 --> 00:31:01,440
time and you were thirsty and everything

796
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:03,200
and we asked you if we could go back to

797
00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:05,039
horse springs and get some water oh no

798
00:31:08,470 --> 00:31:06,799
no you can't go through there

799
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:08,480
and right after that they said no you

800
00:31:13,190 --> 00:31:10,000
just turn around and you head out of

801
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:13,200
here now and you go to socorro and this

802
00:31:17,509 --> 00:31:14,720
is a redhead again

803
00:31:19,350 --> 00:31:17,519
you keep your mouth shut just keep going

804
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:19,360
and don't look back

805
00:31:22,549 --> 00:31:20,159
well

806
00:31:24,149 --> 00:31:22,559
as we drove away you know dad and said

807
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:24,159
hell we'll get we'll go to magdalena

808
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:25,600
we'll get water in magdalena you know

809
00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:27,120
because that's where john trujillo that

810
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:29,440
the relative intent

811
00:31:33,669 --> 00:31:30,840
and

812
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,679
uh so as we drove away i was looking out

813
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:35,760
the back window and i could see dr

814
00:31:39,269 --> 00:31:37,279
busker

815
00:31:41,350 --> 00:31:39,279
and these kids

816
00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:41,360
and that guy that got out of the pickup

817
00:31:46,789 --> 00:31:42,880
was standing there

818
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:46,799
and this dr buskirk was doing just like

819
00:31:51,590 --> 00:31:49,760
this in this red-headed officer's face

820
00:31:52,950 --> 00:31:51,600
and he kept pointing back

821
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:52,960
behind him

822
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:55,120
and i guess that meant you know we got

823
00:31:58,230 --> 00:31:57,039
to go back that way and he was fed up

824
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:58,240
with this guy or something he was

825
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,679
shaking his finger in his face while

826
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,600
they were yelling at each other

827
00:32:05,590 --> 00:32:04,080
and that's pretty much the last i saw

828
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,600
the whole situation i don't know what

829
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,200
happened after that because we just kept

830
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,320
going did you get home before dark

831
00:32:13,990 --> 00:32:12,559
oh yeah yeah it was before dark course

832
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:14,000
it was in the summertime so to get our

833
00:32:18,789 --> 00:32:15,440
until way late

834
00:32:19,909 --> 00:32:18,799
and we stopped in in magdalena very

835
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:19,919
briefly

836
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:22,960
and you know and it just kept going

837
00:32:27,029 --> 00:32:24,640
and uh

838
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:27,039
the adults were really funny and they

839
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:28,640
were really scared

840
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:29,360
and

841
00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:31,600
i had very rarely you know of course i

842
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,120
didn't know him that well but over the

843
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:35,840
years i knew that ted was not much of a

844
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,279
disciplinary and he really didn't

845
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:39,440
discipline the kids that much

846
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:41,600
but he really knocked the fire out a

847
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:43,600
little victory victor will want to talk

848
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,200
about what we just saw i just saw him

849
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:47,039
take your time shut up don't talk about

850
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,840
it

851
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:49,760
nobody's talking about this

852
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:51,360
finally he just turned around and not to

853
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:54,159
live in hell out of uh victor for uh

854
00:32:57,750 --> 00:32:55,519
[\h__\h] in his

855
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:57,760
did ted work at san diego yes he did he

856
00:33:02,070 --> 00:33:00,000
was uh he did something out there in the

857
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:02,080
technical area i don't know

858
00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,519
yes

859
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,760
and uh later your dad worked up and said

860
00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:07,600
yes he did security and he worked here

861
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,000
for years

862
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:12,159
until he retired my dad had some very

863
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:15,120
high clearances okay

864
00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:22,950
mom was over at uncle ted's house and

865
00:33:29,269 --> 00:33:25,200
mom perceived instantly that something

866
00:33:33,509 --> 00:33:31,110
they decided to tell him well when he

867
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:33,519
did then of course isabelle oh my god

868
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:35,679
you saw demons you saw the devil because

869
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:37,200
he was isabelle was

870
00:33:42,789 --> 00:33:40,159
ted's wife is a devoutly religious

871
00:33:45,269 --> 00:33:42,799
catholic person who thinks anything

872
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:45,279
that isn't a vision of say the virgin

873
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:46,720
mary or

874
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:49,679
jesus is quote unquote demons and that's

875
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,200
what we saw

876
00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:53,200
and of course ted you know

877
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:55,440
god you know just put her off

878
00:33:58,310 --> 00:33:56,399
and

879
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,320
we really never talked about it much in

880
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:00,399
the family because of the reaction it

881
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:01,840
got and

882
00:34:06,950 --> 00:34:05,360
my dad was really afraid and so was ted

883
00:34:08,389 --> 00:34:06,960
they've been glenn especially because

884
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:08,399
glenn made the statement about when he

885
00:34:13,030 --> 00:34:10,720
first saw the military

886
00:34:14,950 --> 00:34:13,040
he told my father he said

887
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:14,960
and ted everybody there don't let them

888
00:34:18,230 --> 00:34:17,040
somebody just know i'm a marine don't

889
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:18,240
let them know

890
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:20,480
and of course nobody did and he was just

891
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:24,000
very close so you know he got a pair of

892
00:34:28,230 --> 00:34:26,240
blue jeans on you know and it wasn't

893
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,240
sitting close so you know he didn't look

894
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:30,159
like military or i'm sure his ass had

895
00:34:32,629 --> 00:34:31,839
been in real trouble

896
00:34:35,349 --> 00:34:32,639
uh

897
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:35,359
and they never checked they just assumed

898
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:36,879
yeah i guess that would be they ask your

899
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:37,599
name

900
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:41,679
that from my dad

901
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:42,560
and

902
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:45,040
my brother just very

903
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,679
cursory with you know

904
00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:50,079
hardly talk to him at all he let dad do

905
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:51,599
most of the talking which was pretty

906
00:34:54,790 --> 00:34:52,960
smart i think

907
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,800
under the circumstances of course they

908
00:34:57,510 --> 00:34:56,800
never really asked me any questions at

909
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:57,520
all

910
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:00,960
you're just a kid yeah just a kid and uh

911
00:35:06,230 --> 00:35:04,400
well you first went public with this now

912
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:06,240
let's first square away

913
00:35:08,710 --> 00:35:07,760
all the other four that you were with

914
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:08,720
did

915
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:11,119
yes yes it's been some time and my

916
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:12,880
brother died of a heart attack in mexico

917
00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:15,520
city my dad died of a heart attack

918
00:35:20,710 --> 00:35:18,400
in 78 and

919
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,720
ted and victor were killed in an

920
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:22,320
automobile accident

921
00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:25,119
in the mid 60's and i assume i was 65.

922
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:27,280
right now there's a strange diary that's

923
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:28,240
turned up

924
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:31,119
how did that happen well when i went to

925
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,320
my father's funeral in 1978

926
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:36,960
a lot of deaths belongings where

927
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:39,040
personal belongings were given to us you

928
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:40,800
didn't live in the area although you've

929
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:42,880
gone off to the military and i've been

930
00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:45,119
in the military and subsequently on the

931
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,480
returns in the military moved to

932
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:48,400
colorado immediately

933
00:35:52,550 --> 00:35:50,880
and uh your dad had remarried a couple

934
00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:52,560
of times and

935
00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:55,040
oh yeah this is uh so dad was on his

936
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:56,800
third wife

937
00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:58,800
and uh he

938
00:36:01,750 --> 00:35:59,760
has

939
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:01,760
personal belongings and stuff you know

940
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:02,560
or

941
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:04,720
kind of give it to my two brothers and

942
00:36:08,390 --> 00:36:06,400
myself and

943
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:08,400
my cousin valley jean was there at the

944
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,280
funeral

945
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:11,280
that's ted's daughter yes

946
00:36:16,230 --> 00:36:14,800
and she came up and was talking to me

947
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:16,240
and she said

948
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:17,280
here

949
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:24,079
too and she handed me these photocopies

950
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:25,920
and at first you know i thought well you

951
00:36:28,550 --> 00:36:27,359
know what is this dad's there and she

952
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:28,560
said no

953
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,359
it's

954
00:36:33,750 --> 00:36:31,680
my dad's diary but you were there you

955
00:36:35,190 --> 00:36:33,760
need to have this and then it done what

956
00:36:37,190 --> 00:36:35,200
i was looking at

957
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:37,200
because i read a little bit of it

958
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,920
and so i said yeah okay you know and i

959
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,119
didn't want to talk about it at the

960
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:42,960
funeral because

961
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:45,119
roz's side of the family god bless your

962
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:46,720
dad's 31.

963
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:48,960
god bless her and loved her but they

964
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:50,720
were very religious and they would have

965
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,800
viewed this exactly the same way as

966
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:55,200
isabella had as evil

967
00:36:59,430 --> 00:36:56,960
and i really didn't want to have any

968
00:37:01,910 --> 00:36:59,440
problems with him you know

969
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:01,920
we were kind of on shaky terms we didn't

970
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:04,800
see eye to eye religiously so we're not

971
00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:05,680
quite

972
00:37:10,069 --> 00:37:08,160
you're active in religion now oh yes yes

973
00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:10,079
you're a deacon in the episcopal church

974
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:11,200
right

975
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:12,720
okay that means you actively

976
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,400
participated well yeah uh lay

977
00:37:19,270 --> 00:37:16,240
eucharistic ministry

978
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:19,280
okay so i yes i actively participate i

979
00:37:22,390 --> 00:37:20,720
serve on the altar

980
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:22,400
what do you do for a living now i'm a

981
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,599
security officer in the state of

982
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:24,640
missouri

983
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,320
and you've been doing police sort of

984
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,720
work for several years oh yes yes about

985
00:37:32,069 --> 00:37:30,240
nine years

986
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:32,079
and you also are going to college to be

987
00:37:35,589 --> 00:37:33,920
a nurse and you've already got a couple

988
00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:35,599
of associate degrees from community

989
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:38,160
colleges right yes one associate of

990
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,839
science and one associate of general

991
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:42,000
studies and i'm working toward my

992
00:37:44,550 --> 00:37:43,760
bachelor's of nursing

993
00:37:46,790 --> 00:37:44,560
in

994
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:46,800
roughly two years i will have my

995
00:37:50,390 --> 00:37:48,800
bachelor of nursing albeit now to be a

996
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:50,400
security officer you have to be licensed

997
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,079
by the state of missouri yes you have to

998
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:53,920
be a certified law enforcement officer

999
00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:55,680
which means that you have to have gone

1000
00:37:59,349 --> 00:37:57,680
to the state academy

1001
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:59,359
the department of public safety so

1002
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:01,440
that's not just the basic thing

1003
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,069
and you have to to to work for the

1004
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,920
state under these conditions you have to

1005
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:13,599
not only be certified that you have that

1006
00:38:17,190 --> 00:38:15,280
prior law enforcement experience now

1007
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:17,200
when we get back to the diary for just a

1008
00:38:21,430 --> 00:38:19,760
minute

1009
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:21,440
when you were hypnotized by john

1010
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,560
carpenter a psychiatric social worker

1011
00:38:28,550 --> 00:38:26,720
and he was asking you questions about

1012
00:38:29,990 --> 00:38:28,560
the diary

1013
00:38:31,190 --> 00:38:30,000
apparently

1014
00:38:33,670 --> 00:38:31,200
you'd been told that there were a number

1015
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,680
of copies of that around

1016
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:35,280
uh yeah

1017
00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:37,520
something buried up maybe there too yeah

1018
00:38:41,750 --> 00:38:39,440
as i understood well in fact in

1019
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,760
conversations with valley gene after the

1020
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:44,160
fact after i got

1021
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:45,599
involved in this thing through the

1022
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:47,440
unsolved mysteries thing

1023
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:53,119
uh i was told that that wasn't the only

1024
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:55,200
diary that what i had was it was a copy

1025
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:58,400
or it was a photocopy okay and uh

1026
00:39:02,069 --> 00:39:00,320
that there were a lot of these copies

1027
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:02,079
around and apparently

1028
00:39:07,109 --> 00:39:05,040
uncle ted or someone had had

1029
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:07,119
put these out through different people

1030
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,030
for reasons i don't know to keep her

1031
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:15,119
from getting lost or something like that

1032
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:17,280
okay now when i asked you for the

1033
00:39:21,910 --> 00:39:19,040
original

1034
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,920
you contacted

1035
00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:22,960
who

1036
00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:24,320
why one yeah

1037
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:25,920
that was valley jean okay she was in a

1038
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:28,880
convent right and

1039
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:30,560
she was reluctant to do anything you had

1040
00:39:33,750 --> 00:39:32,400
a call a number of times

1041
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:33,760
that's correct and you talked to the

1042
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,839
bishop somebody talked yeah i talked to

1043
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:37,440
a bishop

1044
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:39,040
and he convinced her to send the stuff

1045
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:40,079
to me

1046
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:42,160
yes apparently okay because i got

1047
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:44,079
directly from colorado

1048
00:39:46,950 --> 00:39:45,599
with a cover letter that strongly

1049
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:46,960
indicated that she didn't want any more

1050
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,560
to do with this that was part of the

1051
00:39:51,510 --> 00:39:49,920
agreement

1052
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:51,520
but that she considered this the work of

1053
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:54,079
the devil or worse to that effect anyway

1054
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:55,839
yeah i think she's in the same opinion

1055
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,839
that her mother was

1056
00:40:01,910 --> 00:39:59,760
okay so

1057
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:01,920
you see all i ever had of this was the

1058
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:04,319
was the photographic copies that i had

1059
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,000
showed you originally

1060
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:08,960
and as i understand it you received i

1061
00:40:12,470 --> 00:40:10,880
received the original from which those

1062
00:40:13,990 --> 00:40:12,480
have been made they were partly burnt

1063
00:40:16,069 --> 00:40:14,000
she mentioned she had intended to burn

1064
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:16,079
them but because of your persistence and

1065
00:40:19,030 --> 00:40:17,200
with the agreement that i never

1066
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:19,040
contacted her

1067
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:21,200
she would send them to me and as you

1068
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,599
know when i had forensic analysis done

1069
00:40:26,790 --> 00:40:25,040
it showed that the ink dated from the

1070
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:26,800
early 70s the paper could have been

1071
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:28,800
available in 47

1072
00:40:33,430 --> 00:40:31,280
so it's clearly not an original

1073
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:33,440
but it was also done before there was

1074
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:35,839
any publicity about this case

1075
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:37,680
anyway because i know i was the first

1076
00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:40,160
one to get involved exactly

1077
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:42,240
now uh

1078
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:45,280
as you know we have discovered

1079
00:40:48,630 --> 00:40:46,720
not i but

1080
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:48,640
you had identity sketches done by a

1081
00:40:52,630 --> 00:40:50,240
police artist

1082
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:52,640
of the various people involved in this

1083
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:53,920
right

1084
00:40:57,670 --> 00:40:56,160
and as you know there is a picture

1085
00:40:59,589 --> 00:40:57,680
several pictures that seem to indicate

1086
00:41:02,950 --> 00:40:59,599
that dr buskirk

1087
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,960
uh was dr winfred buskirk

1088
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:04,800
who received his phd at university of

1089
00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:07,040
new mexico and you would describe them

1090
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:08,800
as in his late 30s early 40s it turns

1091
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:12,079
out he was 39 in 1947 he was bald and

1092
00:41:16,870 --> 00:41:14,640
bald most of his life even up to then

1093
00:41:17,829 --> 00:41:16,880
uh

1094
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:17,839
did

1095
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,400
was there other contact between you and

1096
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:22,960
hey at that time as far as you know your

1097
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:25,040
family and him or

1098
00:41:28,150 --> 00:41:25,839
uh

1099
00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:28,160
i don't know

1100
00:41:32,470 --> 00:41:30,240
i don't not to my knowledge i don't i

1101
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,480
don't believe my dad

1102
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:34,160
had ever contacted him there's a

1103
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,280
possibility that ted may have and i'm

1104
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,000
not sure why

1105
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:42,240
i think valerie jane had alluded to the

1106
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:43,680
fact that

1107
00:41:47,349 --> 00:41:46,480
ted had been in contact with him

1108
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:47,359
and

1109
00:41:52,309 --> 00:41:49,680
that they had corresponded in this kind

1110
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,319
of thing but as far as the personal

1111
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,400
knowledge of it okay now you didn't tell

1112
00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:56,400
your story really until the unsolved

1113
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:58,319
mysteries program was rerun in january

1114
00:42:01,589 --> 00:42:00,000
of 1990

1115
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:01,599
that's right that's when you contacted

1116
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:05,200
them got my address wrote me yeah yeah

1117
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:06,560
we're a little upset that the program

1118
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:08,240
wasn't quite accurate well yeah that was

1119
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,760
the whole thing it started off as a

1120
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:11,440
flute to begin with because everything

1121
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:14,079
that i saw didn't didn't jive with what

1122
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:17,200
i had seen personally i guess i was kind

1123
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,680
of miffed you know here all these years

1124
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:21,200
i have been

1125
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:23,440
primarily forced you know

1126
00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:26,400
by not only by others but by you know my

1127
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:27,760
own sense of

1128
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,480
survival to keep my mouth shut and wow

1129
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,480
here it is it's on tv

1130
00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:34,160
and he got it wrong

1131
00:42:37,990 --> 00:42:35,760
that's

1132
00:42:39,990 --> 00:42:38,000
just impulsively called the number and

1133
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:40,000
told the lady wait a minute you know no

1134
00:42:43,589 --> 00:42:41,520
thing was wrong

1135
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:43,599
wow you know that sir and i said well

1136
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:46,319
because i was there that's why and boy i

1137
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:47,119
really

1138
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:48,640
had apparently pulled somebody's

1139
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:50,079
strength

1140
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:51,520
yeah and the key thing that was wrong of

1141
00:42:54,390 --> 00:42:52,960
course there were a few mistakes in an

1142
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,400
otherwise excellent program was that

1143
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:56,480
they had that

1144
00:42:59,670 --> 00:42:58,720
barney barnett the civil engineer story

1145
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:59,680
over

1146
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:01,359
near corona and you knew that it was

1147
00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:03,680
over in the in the plains right there's

1148
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:05,760
a lot more well yeah and then the fact

1149
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:08,240
that the thing looked like a tent flat

1150
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:11,040
or a tint top hat and it didn't

1151
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,880
it was this shape and

1152
00:43:16,150 --> 00:43:14,960
barney barnett or whoever the guy in the

1153
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:16,160
truck was

1154
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:18,560
did not drive right up to it on a road

1155
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:21,839
it wasn't parked conveniently next to a

1156
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:24,240
thoroughfare you know and uh there was

1157
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:26,000
it was just things like that i i don't

1158
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:26,720
know

1159
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:28,400
i just

1160
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:30,240
for some reason i thought well you know

1161
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,359
geez look

1162
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:33,440
it's already public yeah it's story's

1163
00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:36,000
out and let's get it right you know

1164
00:43:38,710 --> 00:43:37,280
of course i didn't i don't think i

1165
00:43:41,589 --> 00:43:38,720
realized at the time you know how

1166
00:43:43,670 --> 00:43:41,599
involved this was going to be but

1167
00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:43,680
what kind of research

1168
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:45,760
now i got you together with uh john

1169
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:47,839
carpenter the psychiatric social worker

1170
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:50,480
and you guys had several sessions and

1171
00:43:55,190 --> 00:43:53,359
then we flew out to the site

1172
00:43:57,270 --> 00:43:55,200
uh

1173
00:43:59,109 --> 00:43:57,280
you're reasonably convinced now that the

1174
00:44:01,589 --> 00:43:59,119
second time around out there we did find

1175
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:01,599
the exact location yeah the the first

1176
00:44:05,910 --> 00:44:03,280
time in i

1177
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:05,920
you know it was like 43 years and we're

1178
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:12,870
and so you know the landmarks were a

1179
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:15,119
little confusing i was positive i was in

1180
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:16,560
the right place

1181
00:44:20,870 --> 00:44:18,560
but until we actually got on the ground

1182
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,880
john and i and retraced the route in

1183
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:23,520
there that we had come in in the car

1184
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:25,119
uh i was

1185
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:27,119
absolutely sure there was two ridge

1186
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:29,200
lines there and i wasn't really sure of

1187
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,680
which one it was and i had the feeling

1188
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:34,000
that the first one that i pointed out

1189
00:44:36,950 --> 00:44:35,920
was the correct one but once i went in

1190
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:36,960
on the ground

1191
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,520
on foot with john i knew instantly that

1192
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:41,520
it wasn't that one it was the other one

1193
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:43,920
and i'm absolutely positive that that's

1194
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,319
where i was at a question in my mind and

1195
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,000
you will recall that you described the

1196
00:44:52,870 --> 00:44:50,400
woman who sold you the pop on the way in

1197
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:52,880
right and we found the older woman there

1198
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:54,560
who said that was exactly what she

1199
00:44:59,190 --> 00:44:56,319
looked like that's right and i'll never

1200
00:45:01,510 --> 00:44:59,200
forget that lady because i uh well i had

1201
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:01,520
it with heat i'm telling you

1202
00:45:06,870 --> 00:45:04,480
backseat of that 40 plymouth down those

1203
00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:06,880
dirty old roads and stuff

1204
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:10,000
and for mile after mile of course my dad

1205
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:11,680
was one of these kind of people when he

1206
00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:12,960
got in a car

1207
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:15,520
it was point a to point b non-stop i

1208
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:17,599
don't know why he just never stopped to

1209
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,920
smell the roses the wrong way

1210
00:45:24,230 --> 00:45:22,079
and uh so you know i was

1211
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:24,240
pretty sad shape and yeah i remember

1212
00:45:27,829 --> 00:45:25,760
that lady quite well what kind of

1213
00:45:28,630 --> 00:45:27,839
response have you had he went public i

1214
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:28,640
mean

1215
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,720
john talked to a newsman you both talked

1216
00:45:35,030 --> 00:45:33,119
he called me in springfield newsparry

1217
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,040
people paper carried a very straight

1218
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,359
very large article and that got spread

1219
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:39,440
around by lots of people so suddenly

1220
00:45:43,829 --> 00:45:41,359
you're a celebrity if you will what kind

1221
00:45:46,630 --> 00:45:43,839
of reaction from the people who knew you

1222
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:46,640
on campus where you worked your friends

1223
00:45:51,109 --> 00:45:48,720
very very few

1224
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:51,119
negativists there there's the noisy

1225
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:53,200
negativists you know

1226
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:55,040
we have those uh

1227
00:45:58,829 --> 00:45:56,800
but injections

1228
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,839
that generally you know

1229
00:46:01,670 --> 00:46:00,480
99 of the people were incredibly

1230
00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:01,680
supportive

1231
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:04,160
uh only one professor

1232
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:06,079
at the university

1233
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,560
uh was of the negative type that was

1234
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:10,480
vocal about it everybody else is just

1235
00:46:14,230 --> 00:46:12,480
100 supporting

1236
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:14,240
the majority of these people are

1237
00:46:19,589 --> 00:46:16,880
absolutely convinced even without this

1238
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:19,599
story that extraterrestrial uh life

1239
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,920
forms exist and that their people are

1240
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:23,760
flying around out there

1241
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:26,240
and moving between systems and stuff and

1242
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:28,800
it was just it's just an unbelievable

1243
00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:30,560
amount of support you didn't lose your

1244
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:33,119
job oh no boss didn't give you a hard

1245
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:35,599
time absolutely not in fact uh i think

1246
00:46:41,270 --> 00:46:38,480
it's i can i can publicly say that my

1247
00:46:45,430 --> 00:46:41,280
boss is extremely supportive because

1248
00:46:47,829 --> 00:46:45,440
he is a uh avid ufologist himself he is

1249
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:47,839
fascinated by the subject and

1250
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:49,280
you won't have any problem convincing

1251
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:51,440
him either and my boss has a master's

1252
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,440
degree he's not someone that's

1253
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,960
untrained observer that's given the

1254
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:56,640
hallucination

1255
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:58,800
most of the people who are the most

1256
00:47:01,910 --> 00:47:01,119
supportive of me are people with very

1257
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:01,920
high

1258
00:47:07,589 --> 00:47:04,480
educations very very solid education

1259
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:07,599
very solid outstanding degree people

1260
00:47:12,309 --> 00:47:09,520
given to hallucination you went you

1261
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:12,319
attended a ufo conference with john

1262
00:47:16,069 --> 00:47:14,079
carpenter and he gave a paper i guess

1263
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:16,079
and introduced you

1264
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:17,440
and you've got a response from that

1265
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,280
audience too yeah 100 supportive i

1266
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:23,040
was really

1267
00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:25,040
were quite relieved and made very very

1268
00:47:27,589 --> 00:47:26,240
welcome

1269
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:27,599
well you've been interviewed by a number

1270
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,000
of other people linda howe working on a

1271
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:32,160
documentary and so forth seems to have

1272
00:47:35,430 --> 00:47:33,599
blown the story now

1273
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,440
uh how much contact did you have with

1274
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:38,240
kevin randle

1275
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,839
uh a very brief telephone call

1276
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:43,920
uh i came home from work one day and

1277
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:45,359
there was a message on my answering

1278
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:47,200
machine and as you well know i have a

1279
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,880
tendency to be hard to get ahold of yes

1280
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:52,000
and

1281
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:57,920
sent

1282
00:48:01,109 --> 00:47:59,839
cards to both of you and something to

1283
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:01,119
the effect if you want to know what

1284
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:03,200
really happened down there call me

1285
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:05,920
and uh he called and i wasn't there and

1286
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:07,839
he had left his number so i returned his

1287
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:09,200
call

1288
00:48:12,790 --> 00:48:10,800
now

1289
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:12,800
i talked to him

1290
00:48:20,870 --> 00:48:18,390
primarily because

1291
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:20,880
i didn't like the man's attitude

1292
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:21,760
i

1293
00:48:57,510 --> 00:48:55,680
and

1294
00:48:59,030 --> 00:48:57,520
as any other investigator any of the

1295
00:49:01,349 --> 00:48:59,040
noisy negativists approached you

1296
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:01,359
directly no none at all the only other

1297
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:03,359
investigator is you yourself or don

1298
00:49:08,710 --> 00:49:05,839
berliner and uh bob biglow and john

1299
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:08,720
carpenter okay and uh

1300
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:10,720
you're quite familiar with our

1301
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:12,559
involvement and you

1302
00:49:15,910 --> 00:49:14,160
agree that uh

1303
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:15,920
on that first trip to the plains it was

1304
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:17,920
you i bob bigelow and a pilot in the

1305
00:49:22,549 --> 00:49:20,720
helicopter yeah uh joe channing the

1306
00:49:24,470 --> 00:49:22,559
pilot was in the front seat on the left

1307
00:49:25,829 --> 00:49:24,480
side i was in the front seat on the

1308
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:25,839
right side

1309
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:32,150
no

1310
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,920
you were directly behind the pilot on

1311
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:35,599
the left side if bob bigelow was

1312
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:37,520
directly behind me on the on the

1313
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:39,680
passenger side right and then we met up

1314
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:41,920
with eventually with don berliner and

1315
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,160
john carpenter the next three days they

1316
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:46,400
drove to dallas they drove the jeeps and

1317
00:49:50,549 --> 00:49:48,000
stuff to data and we're waiting for a

1318
00:49:52,309 --> 00:49:50,559
sedan when we landed in the uh highway

1319
00:49:53,829 --> 00:49:52,319
island down there right and as you

1320
00:49:57,109 --> 00:49:53,839
recall where did we refuel the

1321
00:49:59,190 --> 00:49:57,119
helicopter uh springerdale arizona

1322
00:50:01,349 --> 00:49:59,200
because it's not far to arizona that's

1323
00:50:03,030 --> 00:50:01,359
oh no no it was just a matter of a few

1324
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:03,040
minutes actually

1325
00:50:09,910 --> 00:50:04,079
25

1326
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,920
west of where we were located

1327
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:11,280
all right i think

1328
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:13,040
we may pick this up another time but i

1329
00:50:16,390 --> 00:50:14,960
think that'll do us for now i really

1330
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:16,400
appreciate the time and trouble and

1331
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:17,839
effort and all the rest of that and on

1332
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:39,910
greetings and salutations and thank you

1333
00:50:45,750 --> 00:50:43,200
for being here for the 75th roswell

1334
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:45,760
anniversary truth seeker special deep

1335
00:50:48,390 --> 00:50:46,800
dive

1336
00:50:49,990 --> 00:50:48,400
if you're new to the channel please be

1337
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:50,000
sure to subscribe and hit that

1338
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:52,559
notification bell so you too will know

1339
00:50:56,870 --> 00:50:54,480
about future special events you can

1340
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:56,880
attend here i wanted to take a moment to

1341
00:51:01,349 --> 00:50:59,200
thank all of our kind and generous

1342
00:51:04,390 --> 00:51:01,359
benefactors because people all over the

1343
00:51:07,190 --> 00:51:04,400
world send a few bucks in in pledges

1344
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:07,200
either through paypal or through the

1345
00:51:12,470 --> 00:51:09,599
super chat down there in the live chat

1346
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:12,480
the money button super stickers uh we

1347
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,680
have and take cash at pledges as well i

1348
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,280
want to thank everybody who has signed

1349
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,440
up to be a patreon member because for as

1350
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,200
little as a dollar a month you can get

1351
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,000
some extra content from us here

1352
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,160
additionally i'd like to thank the

1353
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,040
channel members who get a bunch of

1354
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,200
youtube benefits as well as all the

1355
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,359
patreon benefits for as little as five

1356
00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,800
dollars a month

1357
00:51:39,589 --> 00:51:36,400
i also wanted to mention

1358
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:39,599
uh that i have uh something

1359
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,400
strange for my friends these are roswell

1360
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:47,280
wreckage replicas uh

1361
00:51:52,069 --> 00:51:49,520
which i have been making here i also

1362
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:52,079
wanted to mention that for today's

1363
00:51:57,990 --> 00:51:55,200
special event we have prizes for those

1364
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,000
of you pledging thirty dollars or more

1365
00:52:01,589 --> 00:52:00,640
either through cash app paypal or super

1366
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:01,599
chat

1367
00:52:05,589 --> 00:52:02,720
uh and

1368
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:05,599
this is a gift that we will be sending

1369
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:09,040
everybody who pledges 30 or more this is

1370
00:52:15,109 --> 00:52:12,240
a roswell debris replica

1371
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:15,119
and it's designed to look exactly as

1372
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:19,200
jesse marcel and his son had described

1373
00:52:23,670 --> 00:52:22,400
this is the so-called ib

1374
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:23,680
wreckage

1375
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:26,640
uh this is a replica of course

1376
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,440
and i'm happy that i'll be able to offer

1377
00:52:33,589 --> 00:52:32,319
these to anybody pledging thirty dollars

1378
00:52:35,829 --> 00:52:33,599
or more

1379
00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:35,839
to our show today this is a just a

1380
00:52:39,990 --> 00:52:37,680
special free gift that we're going to be

1381
00:52:42,230 --> 00:52:40,000
giving you kind and generous people for

1382
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:42,240
supporting our show

1383
00:52:48,650 --> 00:53:15,190
[Music]

1384
00:53:19,589 --> 00:53:17,990
yeah by what they've read and seen since

1385
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:19,599
describing essentially what they

1386
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:25,670
we've all been it's just a nice part of

1387
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:26,640
the world

1388
00:53:30,950 --> 00:53:28,800
yeah everybody shall help hang on always

1389
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:30,960
let's let's let's see how our tinker

1390
00:53:35,990 --> 00:53:33,200
toys are all put together here have we

1391
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:36,000
got any kind of an audio line

1392
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:37,119
yeah if you just want to give me a

1393
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:38,240
little bit of

1394
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:43,510
say a couple things let's okay first of

1395
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:46,480
all the phone was ringing right

1396
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:49,040
okay the wait

1397
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:51,200
really the way i became involved in this

1398
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:52,160
was

1399
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:54,480
started out in the after early afternoon

1400
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:55,520
around

1401
00:54:02,069 --> 00:53:58,079
probably 1 30 in the afternoon

1402
00:54:06,150 --> 00:54:02,079
and i received a telephone call from the

1403
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:06,160
marcher weary officer out at the walker

1404
00:54:09,990 --> 00:54:07,680
air force base

1405
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:10,000
army airfield base

1406
00:54:13,990 --> 00:54:11,839
and

1407
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:14,000
he was requiring

1408
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,160
inquiring about

1409
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,319
what would be the smallest

1410
00:54:21,349 --> 00:54:20,400
possible casket that we could get that

1411
00:54:22,829 --> 00:54:21,359
would be

1412
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:22,839
hermetically

1413
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:29,510
at that time i know that we had used

1414
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,880
like the four

1415
00:54:34,630 --> 00:54:32,640
feet and uh

1416
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:34,640
caskets we had used those before but i

1417
00:54:38,230 --> 00:54:36,400
thought they also made them in a three

1418
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:38,240
six

1419
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:40,559
so uh

1420
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,480
but i he want to know if we had any in

1421
00:54:46,710 --> 00:54:44,480
stock and i said no but if i could make

1422
00:54:48,549 --> 00:54:46,720
a call to amarillo i can have him in you

1423
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:48,559
know by seven o'clock the next morning

1424
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:50,079
on the truck

1425
00:54:56,710 --> 00:54:53,760
so he said i'll get back to you and uh

1426
00:54:59,190 --> 00:54:56,720
that was the first contact that i had

1427
00:55:01,589 --> 00:54:59,200
with the base

1428
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:01,599
did he call back uh

1429
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,119
oh probably

1430
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:06,240
45 minutes or so later

1431
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:08,559
and he said i need to ask you some more

1432
00:55:11,670 --> 00:55:10,160
questions he said

1433
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:11,680
in case something like this should

1434
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:14,559
happen he said we uh

1435
00:55:17,510 --> 00:55:16,079
we need to

1436
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,520
know what

1437
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:19,440
the preparation what how what's your

1438
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:21,760
preparations are for the bodies

1439
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:23,920
that had been laying out in the elements

1440
00:55:29,270 --> 00:55:25,200
you know

1441
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:29,280
and uh he said we need to know also

1442
00:55:34,230 --> 00:55:31,599
what uh

1443
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:34,240
what if your treatments of the bodies

1444
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:36,720
are the remains uh

1445
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:38,000
what

1446
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:40,079
could you do to them and if your

1447
00:55:43,430 --> 00:55:42,160
treatments would it would it change any

1448
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:43,440
of the

1449
00:55:48,870 --> 00:55:46,960
blood

1450
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:48,880
would it make a difference

1451
00:55:54,470 --> 00:55:52,160
and i said i thought probably it would

1452
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:54,480
and i said

1453
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:56,640
of course he knew exactly how we would

1454
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:58,480
treat those bodies because we

1455
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:00,799
have an outline from them and what we

1456
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:03,440
really have to do i think he that

1457
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:05,200
he already at that point knew exactly

1458
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:07,520
what we would have to do did he disclose

1459
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:08,799
to you what he had

1460
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:12,000
no i told him i said if you

1461
00:56:15,030 --> 00:56:13,760
if you have a problem if you want you

1462
00:56:16,549 --> 00:56:15,040
know if you have something you don't

1463
00:56:17,990 --> 00:56:16,559
really know what to do about it let me

1464
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:18,000
come out

1465
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:19,680
and i'll you know try to help you do

1466
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:22,319
whatever you want to do

1467
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,750
okay and he said no he said that's not

1468
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:33,839
let's just back up just right there

1469
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:36,240
um let's start again with he was saying

1470
00:56:39,109 --> 00:56:37,839
you told him

1471
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:39,119
that

1472
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:40,319
you can come out and take care of what

1473
00:56:44,870 --> 00:56:42,160
he had right now i want you to get up

1474
00:56:46,470 --> 00:56:44,880
from that point again so and he said

1475
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,480
well you know we don't really have

1476
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,400
anything he said we're sitting here

1477
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:50,319
thinking in case we should

1478
00:56:54,309 --> 00:56:52,160
get involved in something like this you

1479
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:54,319
know what would be our preparation what

1480
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:57,200
what what should we do

1481
00:57:01,750 --> 00:57:00,000
then i you know i went through

1482
00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:01,760
i said do you really want to know how we

1483
00:57:05,349 --> 00:57:04,000
would do it well yes you know we would

1484
00:57:07,589 --> 00:57:05,359
like to know

1485
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:07,599
so that's when i explained to him that

1486
00:57:11,030 --> 00:57:09,440
we would have the vats that we would

1487
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:11,040
fill up with the

1488
00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:14,640
with formaldehyde solution with water

1489
00:57:18,630 --> 00:57:17,599
and we put the bodies in them uh

1490
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:18,640
let them

1491
00:57:22,390 --> 00:57:20,960
stay there for 24 hours and then take

1492
00:57:23,589 --> 00:57:22,400
them out

1493
00:57:25,109 --> 00:57:23,599
and

1494
00:57:27,030 --> 00:57:25,119
then we would

1495
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:27,040
pack the bodies in the

1496
00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:34,069
what we would pack them in then

1497
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:36,000
wrap them in the plastics bodies that

1498
00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:38,400
were badly decomposed

1499
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:40,400
if there was tissue deep tissue we would

1500
00:57:45,750 --> 00:57:42,960
have to do it hypodermically

1501
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:45,760
with needles to get to the deep tissue

1502
00:57:49,510 --> 00:57:47,359
then we would have to aspirate the

1503
00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:49,520
cavities if the cavities hadn't already

1504
00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:50,720
ruptured

1505
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:53,760
and then put some cavity fluid in those

1506
00:57:57,670 --> 00:57:55,520
i said that's you know kind of normal

1507
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,680
procedure

1508
00:58:01,109 --> 00:57:59,280
yeah at

1509
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,119
one point we finally offered to take

1510
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:02,880
care of it for them well i offered two

1511
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:04,960
three times yeah

1512
00:58:09,270 --> 00:58:07,520
that conversation one point

1513
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:09,280
you mean when i offered to

1514
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:10,480
take care of them

1515
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:12,880
he said well we don't really right at

1516
00:58:16,789 --> 00:58:14,319
this time we don't really need your

1517
00:58:18,470 --> 00:58:16,799
assistant but he said in case something

1518
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:18,480
like this should happen then he said we

1519
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:19,920
would be prepared and we would know what

1520
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:21,839
to do

1521
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:24,799
then we got back on to the subject of

1522
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:25,839
maybe

1523
00:58:30,470 --> 00:58:28,160
not damaging any of the

1524
00:58:32,950 --> 00:58:30,480
the chemicals

1525
00:58:34,950 --> 00:58:32,960
compounds or anything with the bodies or

1526
00:58:37,589 --> 00:58:34,960
you know tissues

1527
00:58:39,109 --> 00:58:37,599
whatever because it

1528
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:39,119
and they wanted you know how do you

1529
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:40,880
would you pick bodies up like that and

1530
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:43,040
what would you do not to

1531
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:44,079
to

1532
00:58:47,910 --> 00:58:46,400
contaminate any of it didn't this begin

1533
00:58:50,390 --> 00:58:47,920
to seem a little strange to you at that

1534
00:58:51,910 --> 00:58:50,400
point well i thought maybe what happened

1535
00:58:54,390 --> 00:58:51,920
they might have had a

1536
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:54,400
vip or you know some officer and

1537
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:55,839
something that happened they maybe they

1538
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:57,680
didn't want you know

1539
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,280
want to keep it quiet and they probably

1540
00:59:04,789 --> 00:59:01,440
won't do it themselves not be involved

1541
00:59:06,549 --> 00:59:04,799
with the civilian and

1542
00:59:07,510 --> 00:59:06,559
businesses or anything

1543
00:59:09,190 --> 00:59:07,520
so

1544
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:09,200
after these conversations you were

1545
00:59:11,990 --> 00:59:10,160
curious

1546
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:12,000
and you went out to the base as i

1547
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:13,680
understand it can you review that well

1548
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:15,599
no i didn't go out to the base yeah i

1549
00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:17,440
was curious but

1550
00:59:22,309 --> 00:59:19,839
the only i didn't go out to the base and

1551
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:22,319
probably a couple hours later

1552
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:24,400
and i'd got an emergency call there was

1553
00:59:27,670 --> 00:59:26,000
an airman that was injured in an

1554
00:59:30,870 --> 00:59:27,680
accident

1555
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:30,880
and i took the airman to the base

1556
00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:33,359
he wrote in the ambulance with me and i

1557
00:59:38,069 --> 00:59:36,000
took him out to the emergency streamer

1558
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:38,079
and that's why i became really involved

1559
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:39,359
at the base

1560
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:40,960
i didn't go out just because i was

1561
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:42,240
curious

1562
00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:43,920
give me the sequence from the time you

1563
00:59:47,109 --> 00:59:46,240
picked up the airmen and just described

1564
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,119
me

1565
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:49,440
well and i got the call you know i left

1566
00:59:52,789 --> 00:59:51,280
the funeral home and the

1567
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:52,799
homeless went to the scene of the

1568
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:56,160
accident picked the airman up he did not

1569
01:00:00,309 --> 00:59:58,559
place him on a stretcher because he had

1570
01:00:01,990 --> 01:00:00,319
a head injury in the nose i think his

1571
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:02,000
nose was fractured

1572
01:00:05,510 --> 01:00:04,799
so i did some minor uh first aid and

1573
01:00:07,829 --> 01:00:05,520
then

1574
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:07,839
he sat in the front seat with me

1575
01:00:12,150 --> 01:00:09,680
all the way to the base

1576
01:00:15,349 --> 01:00:12,160
when we got to the base then he walked

1577
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:15,359
into the emergency room i didn't uh

1578
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,280
have to take him in they didn't bring

1579
01:00:22,069 --> 01:00:19,280
out a you know a gurney or anything we

1580
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:22,079
just he just walked in on his own

1581
01:00:27,109 --> 01:00:24,960
then i never did see him after that

1582
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:27,119
then i had this friend that i wanted to

1583
01:00:31,349 --> 01:00:29,119
talk to you and see you this

1584
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:31,359
is a lieutenant nurse that i knew quite

1585
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:32,480
well

1586
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:34,799
that had only been there approximately

1587
01:00:38,710 --> 01:00:36,960
only been commissioned and been out to

1588
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:38,720
sign this was their first assignment to

1589
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:39,760
the

1590
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:43,920
and

1591
01:00:51,109 --> 01:00:48,799
was going down the hall

1592
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:51,119
and i uh

1593
01:00:54,069 --> 01:00:52,240
first thing

1594
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:54,079
the lady that i wanted the lieutenant

1595
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:55,680
that i wanted to see was coming out of

1596
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:57,680
one room going across the hall to the

1597
01:01:00,870 --> 01:00:58,480
other

1598
01:01:02,630 --> 01:01:00,880
and she noticed with me she said how did

1599
01:01:04,309 --> 01:01:02,640
you get in here what are you doing in

1600
01:01:06,390 --> 01:01:04,319
here and she said you better get out and

1601
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:06,400
hurry she said you're going to get in a

1602
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:08,160
lot of trouble she said would you please

1603
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:11,119
leave and get out of here in a hurry

1604
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:12,799
and then about

1605
01:01:18,470 --> 01:01:17,119
went on into the other room

1606
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:18,480
then in about

1607
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:21,280
time i turned around there was a

1608
01:01:25,750 --> 01:01:23,119
there was another officer said hey wait

1609
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:25,760
a minute and i said

1610
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:28,240
looks like you had a crash he said i see

1611
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:29,520
there's some

1612
01:01:33,670 --> 01:01:32,240
you know in the ambulance that in the

1613
01:01:37,109 --> 01:01:33,680
ambulances out there i see a lot of

1614
01:01:39,430 --> 01:01:37,119
record and i said where was the crash

1615
01:01:41,670 --> 01:01:39,440
and he said there wasn't any crush

1616
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,680
and he said uh

1617
01:01:45,030 --> 01:01:43,440
then he said just wait a minute and then

1618
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:45,040
i'd

1619
01:01:51,589 --> 01:01:48,960
you know stood there for a minute he

1620
01:01:53,109 --> 01:01:51,599
turned around and evidently he missed

1621
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:53,119
wait for somebody else to come up

1622
01:01:55,910 --> 01:01:54,720
because there was another officer coming

1623
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:55,920
out

1624
01:01:59,349 --> 01:01:57,920
he said this man says there was a crash

1625
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:59,359
out at the base

1626
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:00,960
he said he wanted to know about he was

1627
01:02:05,829 --> 01:02:03,440
inquiring about our crash

1628
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:05,839
and this was when i encountered he was a

1629
01:02:10,069 --> 01:02:08,880
red-headed officer

1630
01:02:11,589 --> 01:02:10,079
and

1631
01:02:14,069 --> 01:02:11,599
very nasty

1632
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:15,990
rough he said

1633
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:18,000
you did not see any crash there was not

1634
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:21,359
any cat crash and he said

1635
01:02:24,549 --> 01:02:22,880
you get the hell out of here and you

1636
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,559
didn't see anything and you don't talk

1637
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:26,000
to anybody

1638
01:02:29,589 --> 01:02:27,680
he said you got to get in hell a lot of

1639
01:02:31,349 --> 01:02:29,599
trouble and i said look i'm a civilian

1640
01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:31,359
in the damn thing you can do to me about

1641
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:32,240
it

1642
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:34,160
he said no but somebody might be picking

1643
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:35,920
your bones out of sin that's when he

1644
01:02:40,390 --> 01:02:38,240
made the remark there

1645
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:40,400
then there was a black sergeant

1646
01:02:45,109 --> 01:02:43,599
that was standing beside him

1647
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:45,119
and he said yeah but he would make

1648
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:47,680
better dog food for our dogs of course i

1649
01:02:51,910 --> 01:02:49,839
didn't understand that but

1650
01:02:53,829 --> 01:02:51,920
my father happened to be an old trapper

1651
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:53,839
and for a hobby and everything i said my

1652
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:55,920
father uses guys like you for baiting

1653
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:57,119
these coyote

1654
01:03:00,470 --> 01:02:58,559
traps

1655
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:00,480
and then there was two mps that joined

1656
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:03,119
me right on take me outside each holding

1657
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:05,520
me by my elbows and escorted me out to

1658
01:03:14,630 --> 01:03:06,480
the

1659
01:03:15,829 --> 01:03:14,640
you saw something in three trunks yeah

1660
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:15,839
when

1661
01:03:18,950 --> 01:03:17,599
yeah because usually where i parked

1662
01:03:21,190 --> 01:03:18,960
there was three

1663
01:03:23,270 --> 01:03:21,200
field ambulances parked in the area

1664
01:03:24,150 --> 01:03:23,280
where i usually park will be back up to

1665
01:03:32,820 --> 01:03:24,160
the

1666
01:03:34,549 --> 01:03:32,830
so

1667
01:03:36,789 --> 01:03:34,559
[Music]

1668
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:36,799
when i passed when i got up went up the

1669
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:41,039
steps and up the ramp and i was walking

1670
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:42,640
going into the

1671
01:03:49,270 --> 01:03:46,240
emergency room i noticed that the doors

1672
01:03:51,430 --> 01:03:49,280
were open and then uh but what was odd

1673
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:51,440
about it there was an mp standing beside

1674
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:53,839
each one of the vehicles in the back

1675
01:03:57,910 --> 01:03:55,599
standing there

1676
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:57,920
and the doors were open naturally i was

1677
01:04:01,270 --> 01:04:00,000
curious and you know i just happened to

1678
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:01,280
look in

1679
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,599
that's when i saw some debris that

1680
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:05,280
looked like parts of a plane or

1681
01:04:09,190 --> 01:04:07,680
something that they hadn't had a crash

1682
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:09,200
because i've seen them do this a lot of

1683
01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:11,119
times bring in pieces

1684
01:04:15,109 --> 01:04:13,760
and the olympus is in can you describe

1685
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:15,119
the debris

1686
01:04:18,630 --> 01:04:16,559
yeah they were

1687
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:18,640
i noticed in two

1688
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:20,799
of the ambulances there was

1689
01:04:25,349 --> 01:04:22,960
some debris that was probably

1690
01:04:27,510 --> 01:04:25,359
two and a half to three feet you know

1691
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,520
long and probably high that was

1692
01:04:31,270 --> 01:04:29,440
propped up on the side

1693
01:04:33,829 --> 01:04:31,280
of the ambulance there

1694
01:04:36,549 --> 01:04:33,839
they were kind of in the shape of maybe

1695
01:04:39,430 --> 01:04:36,559
like a half a canoe they they were

1696
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:39,440
like the front part of a canoe

1697
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:44,549
you know it looked like it looked like

1698
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:46,720
it might be aluminum but it looked more

1699
01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:49,039
like it was the metal look more like

1700
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:50,880
stainless steel that had been heated it

1701
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:52,160
was blue

1702
01:04:57,190 --> 01:04:55,200
kind of bluish tint to it

1703
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:57,200
what was odd about it it looked like

1704
01:05:01,829 --> 01:04:59,359
around the curved part in the front of

1705
01:05:03,670 --> 01:05:01,839
the canoe there was some

1706
01:05:09,349 --> 01:05:03,680
some

1707
01:05:12,150 --> 01:05:09,359
whatever

1708
01:05:14,470 --> 01:05:12,160
and it was probably about three inches

1709
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:14,480
and high and probably the length of what

1710
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:17,520
the wreckage i saw it looked like it was

1711
01:05:22,069 --> 01:05:19,599
and the same thing was in then the other

1712
01:05:24,150 --> 01:05:22,079
ambulance too i mean i saw practically

1713
01:05:24,950 --> 01:05:24,160
the same thing

1714
01:05:32,069 --> 01:05:24,960
the

1715
01:05:33,190 --> 01:05:32,079
whatever that might be

1716
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:33,200
was

1717
01:05:47,349 --> 01:05:45,750
well i didn't know really until until

1718
01:05:48,309 --> 01:05:47,359
the

1719
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:48,319
uh

1720
01:05:53,190 --> 01:05:51,359
until the next day and i wanted to i

1721
01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:53,200
called out i kept trying to get a hold

1722
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:54,720
of her because naturally i was curious

1723
01:05:59,109 --> 01:05:57,359
and i wanted to know what was going on

1724
01:06:01,670 --> 01:05:59,119
and so i called out the next day and

1725
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:01,680
then probably around 11 30 and she said

1726
01:06:05,589 --> 01:06:03,200
i know you've been trying to get a hold

1727
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:05,599
of me but i haven't been available

1728
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:07,200
and she said why don't you meet me at

1729
01:06:10,549 --> 01:06:08,960
the office club if you would if you have

1730
01:06:12,630 --> 01:06:10,559
time meet with the office club and we'll

1731
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:12,640
have lunch and i want to i want to talk

1732
01:06:15,349 --> 01:06:14,319
to you

1733
01:06:17,510 --> 01:06:15,359
and

1734
01:06:19,430 --> 01:06:17,520
the funeral home we had it at that time

1735
01:06:21,510 --> 01:06:19,440
we had all the some of the businesses

1736
01:06:23,349 --> 01:06:21,520
there had an associate membership to the

1737
01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:23,359
officers club

1738
01:06:27,190 --> 01:06:25,680
and our funeral home had that

1739
01:06:29,750 --> 01:06:27,200
membership

1740
01:06:32,150 --> 01:06:29,760
and also had a card to identify myself

1741
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:32,160
and what business that i was you know

1742
01:06:35,990 --> 01:06:34,079
associated with

1743
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:36,000
so i had no problem one time i'd go to

1744
01:06:39,270 --> 01:06:37,760
base all i had to do a lot of times if

1745
01:06:41,029 --> 01:06:39,280
it was in the evening i'd have to stop

1746
01:06:43,589 --> 01:06:41,039
and sign investors and get a visitor's

1747
01:06:46,710 --> 01:06:43,599
pass and then turn it in when i left

1748
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:46,720
there was no problem going out there

1749
01:06:51,910 --> 01:06:50,160
so i went on out and met her big pardon

1750
01:06:54,390 --> 01:06:51,920
tell me about lunch

1751
01:06:57,190 --> 01:06:54,400
well we you know both to ordered i'm not

1752
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:57,200
sure remember what we ordered but

1753
01:07:02,630 --> 01:06:59,680
it was just a light just a light lunch

1754
01:07:04,069 --> 01:07:02,640
but she was so upset

1755
01:07:06,069 --> 01:07:04,079
uh

1756
01:07:07,750 --> 01:07:06,079
she looked like she's you know in shock

1757
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:07,760
because what she really talked like and

1758
01:07:10,549 --> 01:07:09,359
looked like

1759
01:07:12,549 --> 01:07:10,559
and

1760
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:12,559
she said i wanna she said i said well

1761
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:14,079
i'm just curious the only reason i want

1762
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:15,599
to talk to you i was curious on what

1763
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:17,039
happened

1764
01:07:20,710 --> 01:07:18,880
and she said well you won't believe it

1765
01:07:22,309 --> 01:07:20,720
she says i don't believe it either but

1766
01:07:24,390 --> 01:07:22,319
she said

1767
01:07:26,789 --> 01:07:24,400
i got in a lot of trouble on this thing

1768
01:07:29,109 --> 01:07:26,799
i probably i'm not real sure about this

1769
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:29,119
but she said when i

1770
01:07:32,470 --> 01:07:31,280
then she pulled out of a

1771
01:07:35,910 --> 01:07:32,480
little

1772
01:07:37,750 --> 01:07:35,920
pocketbook whatever she had there

1773
01:07:41,270 --> 01:07:37,760
she gave me a little diagram that she

1774
01:07:42,630 --> 01:07:41,280
had that she had drawn some dry and some

1775
01:07:45,990 --> 01:07:42,640
figures of uh

1776
01:07:47,109 --> 01:07:46,000
of some arms in the face and so on she

1777
01:07:49,349 --> 01:07:47,119
told me that

1778
01:07:52,150 --> 01:07:49,359
this is what you know was what was in

1779
01:07:53,750 --> 01:07:52,160
those that it was a crash it wasn't an

1780
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:53,760
airplane but they didn't know what it

1781
01:07:58,390 --> 01:07:56,400
was at that time these were bodies

1782
01:08:00,309 --> 01:07:58,400
yeah but she said we have three bodies

1783
01:08:03,109 --> 01:08:00,319
that there was three bodies she said two

1784
01:08:05,430 --> 01:08:03,119
of them were very mutilated

1785
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:05,440
one looked like it might have walked out

1786
01:08:09,829 --> 01:08:08,240
or that it you know might have lived a

1787
01:08:11,589 --> 01:08:09,839
little while

1788
01:08:13,990 --> 01:08:11,599
and she explained they were like three

1789
01:08:16,070 --> 01:08:14,000
and a half feet four feet tall

1790
01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:16,080
the uh

1791
01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:18,480
two of the bodies were the

1792
01:08:21,269 --> 01:08:19,520
uh

1793
01:08:23,030 --> 01:08:21,279
you couldn't identify much because they

1794
01:08:27,430 --> 01:08:23,040
were practically destroyed and it looked

1795
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:27,440
like maybe that they might have been

1796
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:30,159
a predatory animal or something might

1797
01:08:35,349 --> 01:08:32,319
have

1798
01:08:37,189 --> 01:08:35,359
been doing some damage on the bodies too

1799
01:08:40,309 --> 01:08:37,199
how did she describe their head their

1800
01:08:42,390 --> 01:08:40,319
hands well she said that you had

1801
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:42,400
in the the little drawings that i had

1802
01:08:45,910 --> 01:08:43,120
she

1803
01:08:48,630 --> 01:08:45,920
drew it that

1804
01:08:50,149 --> 01:08:48,640
the heads were somewhat larger than than

1805
01:08:53,030 --> 01:08:50,159
a human

1806
01:08:54,950 --> 01:08:53,040
heads the hands were long no thumbs it

1807
01:08:57,430 --> 01:08:54,960
was just a long

1808
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:57,440
very delicate fingers at the end of the

1809
01:09:01,030 --> 01:08:58,799
on the

1810
01:09:03,669 --> 01:09:01,040
underside at the tip of each fingers was

1811
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,679
a pad like

1812
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:05,440
maybe a little pad but it looked like

1813
01:09:10,789 --> 01:09:07,600
the skin had maybe little suctions like

1814
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:10,799
the little suction cups on those

1815
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:16,709
no fingernails on the hands

1816
01:09:21,349 --> 01:09:18,880
the head

1817
01:09:23,749 --> 01:09:21,359
the lips were very just a long narrow

1818
01:09:25,110 --> 01:09:23,759
more or less uh not full lips like we

1819
01:09:27,110 --> 01:09:25,120
would have in

1820
01:09:31,189 --> 01:09:27,120
most of our people

1821
01:09:33,590 --> 01:09:31,199
but very fine line very fine lips

1822
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:33,600
there was no teeth that was the inside

1823
01:09:37,749 --> 01:09:35,440
of the mouth that was

1824
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,759
it was kind of like a real

1825
01:09:44,470 --> 01:09:39,600
uh

1826
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:44,480
she said explain it it was almost as

1827
01:09:48,789 --> 01:09:47,279
hard as if it was rawhide maybe

1828
01:09:51,349 --> 01:09:48,799
hit that

1829
01:09:53,269 --> 01:09:51,359
the uh the years

1830
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:53,279
there was only two small orifices on

1831
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:55,440
each side of the head would

1832
01:09:58,709 --> 01:09:57,520
look like a couple of small lobes that

1833
01:10:05,270 --> 01:09:58,719
might

1834
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:05,280
but there was not a protruding ear

1835
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:08,000
and also that the nose there was only

1836
01:10:11,990 --> 01:10:08,800
two

1837
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:12,000
small orifices in the nose there was

1838
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:15,600
there was really no nose that was the

1839
01:10:21,510 --> 01:10:18,000
convex it was old

1840
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:25,590
of the face

1841
01:10:28,709 --> 01:10:27,510
was she emotional about all this very

1842
01:10:31,110 --> 01:10:28,719
much so

1843
01:10:32,709 --> 01:10:31,120
very emotional she would have to stop

1844
01:10:36,310 --> 01:10:32,719
and drink water

1845
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:36,320
every once in a while and also

1846
01:10:39,510 --> 01:10:38,000
she never touched a meal that all the

1847
01:10:41,030 --> 01:10:39,520
time we were talking in an hour and a

1848
01:10:43,270 --> 01:10:41,040
half that we were there she never

1849
01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:43,280
touched her meal

1850
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,000
any other demonstrations of emotional

1851
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:48,400
indications of how she was upset

1852
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:49,840
well just

1853
01:10:53,990 --> 01:10:52,159
you know every once in a while she'd go

1854
01:10:55,990 --> 01:10:54,000
like this you know

1855
01:10:57,490 --> 01:10:56,000
and ring in her hands and she said it

1856
01:10:58,709 --> 01:10:57,500
was the most most

1857
01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:58,719
[Music]

1858
01:11:02,310 --> 01:11:00,560
horrible i've never been so horrified in

1859
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:02,320
my life i've never seen anything so

1860
01:11:05,910 --> 01:11:03,920
gruesome in my life

1861
01:11:07,910 --> 01:11:05,920
i've never smelt anything that smelled

1862
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:07,920
worse in my life

1863
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:09,120
and she

1864
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:11,120
told me that when i saw her she was

1865
01:11:15,430 --> 01:11:13,120
leaving the room to go to the bathroom

1866
01:11:17,590 --> 01:11:15,440
because she was deathly ill and was

1867
01:11:19,350 --> 01:11:17,600
going to throw up

1868
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:19,360
did she recognize any of the doctors by

1869
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:20,159
the

1870
01:11:28,630 --> 01:11:26,390
she said i don't i ask you that question

1871
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:28,640
which to the doctors and she said i

1872
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:30,640
don't know that she said

1873
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:32,400
i don't know that i knew them and that

1874
01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:34,960
was her answer

1875
01:11:38,390 --> 01:11:36,800
so but she said she walked in the room

1876
01:11:40,310 --> 01:11:38,400
and they said hey we need you you need

1877
01:11:42,709 --> 01:11:40,320
to help us

1878
01:11:43,590 --> 01:11:42,719
and that was the way she became involved

1879
01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:43,600
in it

1880
01:11:47,910 --> 01:11:45,760
and then she got held the doctors also

1881
01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:47,920
became very ill they would have to do

1882
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:49,760
a little examination then they'd have to

1883
01:11:52,950 --> 01:11:51,360
leave and go sit down and then they

1884
01:11:57,030 --> 01:11:52,960
would come back and do a little bit more

1885
01:12:01,910 --> 01:11:59,110
after your conversation with her at

1886
01:12:03,110 --> 01:12:01,920
lunch can you describe

1887
01:12:05,510 --> 01:12:03,120
what happened tonight did you how you

1888
01:12:07,110 --> 01:12:05,520
were unable to see her again and

1889
01:12:09,910 --> 01:12:07,120
how you learned

1890
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:09,920
well yeah we invested a while and then

1891
01:12:14,149 --> 01:12:11,600
i had to get back to the funeral home go

1892
01:12:15,350 --> 01:12:14,159
back to work but uh

1893
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:15,360
then uh

1894
01:12:19,510 --> 01:12:17,440
i never did see her after that

1895
01:12:21,669 --> 01:12:19,520
and i called out the next day to see how

1896
01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:21,679
she was feeling see what

1897
01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:23,280
and they told me that she wasn't

1898
01:12:25,510 --> 01:12:24,560
available

1899
01:12:27,270 --> 01:12:25,520
then i

1900
01:12:28,950 --> 01:12:27,280
wouldn't be available that day i called

1901
01:12:30,310 --> 01:12:28,960
the next day

1902
01:12:32,229 --> 01:12:30,320
and they told me that she'd been

1903
01:12:34,149 --> 01:12:32,239
transferred

1904
01:12:35,830 --> 01:12:34,159
and it was rather odd because she'd only

1905
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:35,840
been at the base less than three months

1906
01:12:39,030 --> 01:12:37,679
that was her on commission less than

1907
01:12:41,510 --> 01:12:39,040
three months and that was her first

1908
01:12:43,430 --> 01:12:41,520
assignment so it was rather odd that she

1909
01:12:45,990 --> 01:12:43,440
would be transferred out you know within

1910
01:12:48,470 --> 01:12:46,000
three months

1911
01:12:50,790 --> 01:12:48,480
so later on you attempted you gotta i

1912
01:12:52,070 --> 01:12:50,800
guess you got a letter then about two

1913
01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:52,080
weeks

1914
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:55,760
could have been a little long but i know

1915
01:13:00,310 --> 01:12:58,000
it was at least two weeks i got a

1916
01:13:03,350 --> 01:13:00,320
i got a letter addressed to me at

1917
01:13:05,030 --> 01:13:03,360
glendale's at the ballard fuel home

1918
01:13:07,110 --> 01:13:05,040
with

1919
01:13:08,950 --> 01:13:07,120
she didn't sign didn't have any returned

1920
01:13:10,149 --> 01:13:08,960
address or anything on it but inside of

1921
01:13:12,070 --> 01:13:10,159
the letter

1922
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:12,080
it was just a note she said i don't have

1923
01:13:17,590 --> 01:13:15,120
time to write i will write lay it later

1924
01:13:19,030 --> 01:13:17,600
this is my apo number

1925
01:13:21,189 --> 01:13:19,040
and that was

1926
01:13:22,790 --> 01:13:21,199
that was the extent of it

1927
01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:22,800
so then i

1928
01:13:26,470 --> 01:13:25,040
wrote back to her

1929
01:13:28,310 --> 01:13:26,480
and

1930
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:28,320
asked her more or less how you know how

1931
01:13:33,110 --> 01:13:30,640
she was feeling and why the sudden

1932
01:13:34,870 --> 01:13:33,120
transfer and then i hope that she wasn't

1933
01:13:36,630 --> 01:13:34,880
in any trouble

1934
01:13:39,270 --> 01:13:36,640
it was just a short note i really didn't

1935
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:39,280
go into a lot of detail or anything

1936
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:41,920
then probably three weeks or probably a

1937
01:13:46,790 --> 01:13:44,800
month after that then i got the letter

1938
01:13:50,149 --> 01:13:46,800
that i had mailed to her

1939
01:13:53,030 --> 01:13:50,159
it was returned it was step return

1940
01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:53,040
and also it's on the on in red printing

1941
01:13:57,189 --> 01:13:54,960
it said deceased

1942
01:13:58,950 --> 01:13:57,199
and that's the last time i ever heard or

1943
01:14:00,790 --> 01:13:58,960
heard anything about it

1944
01:14:03,350 --> 01:14:00,800
then well

1945
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:03,360
probably then i went out to the base

1946
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:05,840
a few days later and i was talking to

1947
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:07,120
one of the nurses and i said you know

1948
01:14:11,270 --> 01:14:09,280
whatever happened to the lieutenant

1949
01:14:12,950 --> 01:14:11,280
and she said well the rumor is that we

1950
01:14:15,030 --> 01:14:12,960
heard that she was killed with five

1951
01:14:16,790 --> 01:14:15,040
other nurses in a training mission in a

1952
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:16,800
plane crash

1953
01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:19,600
and that was it no indication of where

1954
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:21,360
well it was in london england she said

1955
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:23,440
in in the note that she sent me that she

1956
01:14:26,950 --> 01:14:25,120
was in london

1957
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:26,960
stationed in london

1958
01:14:30,149 --> 01:14:28,640
and that was it that's the last time i

1959
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:30,159
ever heard

1960
01:14:34,550 --> 01:14:32,880
do you believe that she's dead

1961
01:14:36,229 --> 01:14:34,560
no i don't think so after all it's

1962
01:14:38,149 --> 01:14:36,239
happening and after

1963
01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:38,159
you know threatening me and everything i

1964
01:14:44,950 --> 01:14:41,760
doubt very seriously that she was

1965
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,149
what would you like to say

1966
01:14:53,030 --> 01:14:51,110
well she happened to this state if she

1967
01:14:54,790 --> 01:14:53,040
she feels like

1968
01:14:56,870 --> 01:14:54,800
the

1969
01:14:57,910 --> 01:14:56,880
you know she wants to talk if she feels

1970
01:15:03,430 --> 01:14:57,920
like

1971
01:15:06,790 --> 01:15:03,440
see what's been going on in her life

1972
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:06,800
and why she wasn't able to contact me

1973
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:19,270
let's stop take forever

1974
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:21,030
um

1975
01:15:27,830 --> 01:15:25,110
the sheriff

1976
01:15:29,750 --> 01:15:27,840
told your father you were in trouble

1977
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:29,760
okay what happened there then the next

1978
01:15:34,790 --> 01:15:32,080
day after i was there

1979
01:15:37,350 --> 01:15:34,800
when i had the problem with the

1980
01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:37,360
officer and the black man

1981
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:40,000
i was told my father

1982
01:15:43,750 --> 01:15:41,920
was contacted by our sheriff george

1983
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:43,760
wilcox which was a very close friend of

1984
01:15:48,390 --> 01:15:46,480
my father they were very good friends

1985
01:15:51,030 --> 01:15:48,400
and

1986
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:53,030
to see if my father was home because he

1987
01:15:59,030 --> 01:15:55,920
wanted to come out and talk to my father

1988
01:16:01,430 --> 01:15:59,040
and he did so and he told my father that

1989
01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:01,440
there was a black sergeant from the base

1990
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:03,120
that came to the

1991
01:16:06,950 --> 01:16:04,640
to his office

1992
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:06,960
was inquiring about who my parents were

1993
01:16:11,590 --> 01:16:09,120
my mother and my father

1994
01:16:14,550 --> 01:16:11,600
if i had any brothers or sisters then

1995
01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:14,560
i'll you know want to know my uh what my

1996
01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:16,800
personal family who they were and where

1997
01:16:19,990 --> 01:16:17,920
they were

1998
01:16:21,990 --> 01:16:20,000
george said that he didn't he knew i had

1999
01:16:24,310 --> 01:16:22,000
some family but he didn't know

2000
01:16:27,189 --> 01:16:24,320
you know where they were anything else

2001
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:27,199
so anyway he told my father that he did

2002
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:29,760
contact my father and he told my father

2003
01:16:33,270 --> 01:16:31,600
that he thought i might be in some

2004
01:16:34,709 --> 01:16:33,280
trouble

2005
01:16:36,790 --> 01:16:34,719
and

2006
01:16:39,750 --> 01:16:36,800
but he didn't they evidently didn't

2007
01:16:40,870 --> 01:16:39,760
explain why i was in trouble

2008
01:16:42,950 --> 01:16:40,880
so

2009
01:16:44,790 --> 01:16:42,960
you know first thing my father did was

2010
01:16:45,750 --> 01:16:44,800
get in his car and come to the funeral

2011
01:16:47,910 --> 01:16:45,760
home

2012
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:47,920
said we had to talk because he and i

2013
01:16:51,990 --> 01:16:50,239
were very close we were real you know

2014
01:16:53,350 --> 01:16:52,000
real good friends best friend i ever had

2015
01:16:55,270 --> 01:16:53,360
was my father

2016
01:16:57,030 --> 01:16:55,280
he said i've got to talk he said if

2017
01:16:58,709 --> 01:16:57,040
you're in trouble he said we we've got

2018
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:58,719
to do something about and i said i'm not

2019
01:17:01,910 --> 01:17:00,159
in trouble

2020
01:17:04,390 --> 01:17:01,920
he said well you are he said george

2021
01:17:05,910 --> 01:17:04,400
wilcox told me that you were in a lot of

2022
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:05,920
trouble

2023
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:07,679
and that you got involved in something

2024
01:17:11,030 --> 01:17:09,120
that you had no business getting

2025
01:17:12,630 --> 01:17:11,040
involved in

2026
01:17:14,470 --> 01:17:12,640
and that you could be in a lot of

2027
01:17:17,510 --> 01:17:14,480
trouble and i said then

2028
01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:17,520
so i told my father the story and he's

2029
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:19,600
the only man that i've ever told a story

2030
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:21,120
to until

2031
01:17:25,750 --> 01:17:22,960
i talked to stan friedman and to you

2032
01:17:28,310 --> 01:17:25,760
people and that's it period

2033
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:28,320
and i did tell my father what what the

2034
01:17:31,510 --> 01:17:29,600
story was

2035
01:17:33,910 --> 01:17:31,520
of course it was you know it was

2036
01:17:36,149 --> 01:17:33,920
unbelievable for him

2037
01:17:37,910 --> 01:17:36,159
but then he became very upset and he

2038
01:17:39,990 --> 01:17:37,920
wanted to go shoot a few people and all

2039
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:40,000
that because they did threaten my life

2040
01:17:44,470 --> 01:17:42,719
and you know and they uh

2041
01:17:46,630 --> 01:17:44,480
so

2042
01:17:48,470 --> 01:17:46,640
that was the way my father heard about

2043
01:17:50,550 --> 01:17:48,480
it and that was extent my family and he

2044
01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:50,560
never would tell them who my brother i

2045
01:17:54,070 --> 01:17:52,400
had a brother that was a fighter pilot

2046
01:17:56,470 --> 01:17:54,080
during that time

2047
01:17:59,030 --> 01:17:56,480
and i had three sisters

2048
01:18:01,189 --> 01:17:59,040
and one of them was a nurse

2049
01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:01,199
but i bet he would never tell him

2050
01:18:05,350 --> 01:18:03,760
anything and so he didn't tell the chair

2051
01:18:06,550 --> 01:18:05,360
for anybody else because the sheriff was

2052
01:18:07,830 --> 01:18:06,560
supposed to call him back and give him

2053
01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:07,840
the names of where they were at and he

2054
01:18:11,590 --> 01:18:09,520
wouldn't do it

2055
01:18:14,470 --> 01:18:11,600
let's get back to

2056
01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:17,750
did she express an opinion as to what

2057
01:18:20,310 --> 01:18:19,120
she thought

2058
01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:20,320
these

2059
01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:21,600
beings were

2060
01:18:27,189 --> 01:18:23,120
did she think

2061
01:18:31,110 --> 01:18:27,199
she

2062
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:31,120
ever made was that they definitely

2063
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:32,159
weren't

2064
01:18:37,910 --> 01:18:33,199
humans

2065
01:18:39,750 --> 01:18:37,920
another planet or the doctors were

2066
01:18:41,830 --> 01:18:39,760
explaining this that they couldn't be

2067
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:41,840
from our planet they had to be

2068
01:18:45,350 --> 01:18:43,600
an alien there had to be something else

2069
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:45,360
but not not

2070
01:18:50,790 --> 01:18:47,760
in our planet

2071
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:50,800
she had a phrase she used to describe

2072
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:52,560
how they looked to her

2073
01:18:57,350 --> 01:18:54,640
you remember that they were telling me

2074
01:18:58,630 --> 01:18:57,360
like little black [\h__\h] well she said

2075
01:19:00,630 --> 01:18:58,640
that

2076
01:19:02,470 --> 01:19:00,640
well of course they would you know first

2077
01:19:04,870 --> 01:19:02,480
thing she said they were black they were

2078
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:04,880
just as black as they could be but

2079
01:19:10,550 --> 01:19:07,520
probably laying out in the elements in

2080
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:10,560
july and roswell with 105 to 110

2081
01:19:14,310 --> 01:19:12,719
temperature every day and 80 degrees or

2082
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:14,320
so at night

2083
01:19:18,630 --> 01:19:15,840
i mean that's not that wouldn't be

2084
01:19:20,630 --> 01:19:18,640
uncommon because we picked up a lot of

2085
01:19:22,229 --> 01:19:20,640
cheap herds of people that have

2086
01:19:23,910 --> 01:19:22,239
been found dead that's laying in the

2087
01:19:25,990 --> 01:19:23,920
desert you know for days and getting

2088
01:19:28,229 --> 01:19:26,000
with rattlesnakes or whatever

2089
01:19:30,310 --> 01:19:28,239
and they do turn you know as black as

2090
01:19:31,990 --> 01:19:30,320
they can and

2091
01:19:33,590 --> 01:19:32,000
i know exactly what they were talking

2092
01:19:36,310 --> 01:19:33,600
about

2093
01:19:38,149 --> 01:19:36,320
with the smell and the odor being so

2094
01:19:41,270 --> 01:19:38,159
drastic because this is a very

2095
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:41,280
unpleasant situation you know and uh

2096
01:19:45,510 --> 01:19:43,199
let's talk about their eyes

2097
01:19:48,229 --> 01:19:45,520
how did she describe their eyes well she

2098
01:19:50,550 --> 01:19:48,239
said that of course their eyes were set

2099
01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:50,560
back into the skull

2100
01:19:54,709 --> 01:19:52,640
oh and it was a remarkable i thought it

2101
01:19:57,350 --> 01:19:54,719
was interesting also that she said their

2102
01:19:59,669 --> 01:19:57,360
skulls the doctor said their skull bone

2103
01:20:01,030 --> 01:19:59,679
structure wasn't like ours it wasn't

2104
01:20:03,030 --> 01:20:01,040
actually a bone

2105
01:20:06,229 --> 01:20:03,040
it was probably a real heavy cartilage

2106
01:20:08,229 --> 01:20:06,239
it it looked more or less like a newborn

2107
01:20:10,390 --> 01:20:08,239
baby the skull was very pliable you

2108
01:20:11,189 --> 01:20:10,400
could mesh on the skull and it would you

2109
01:20:13,030 --> 01:20:11,199
know

2110
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:13,040
it would give

2111
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:14,239
and so

2112
01:20:19,189 --> 01:20:17,040
it the bone structure it wasn't bones

2113
01:20:20,629 --> 01:20:19,199
not like our bones it was our skull and

2114
01:20:23,350 --> 01:20:20,639
everything

2115
01:20:25,750 --> 01:20:23,360
what about the bones in the hands

2116
01:20:27,750 --> 01:20:25,760
i said very fine very delicate the arm

2117
01:20:29,750 --> 01:20:27,760
bones they'd like the radial yellow and

2118
01:20:31,590 --> 01:20:29,760
in the arm that

2119
01:20:33,430 --> 01:20:31,600
it was so fine that

2120
01:20:35,350 --> 01:20:33,440
he doubt if they could lift you know she

2121
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:35,360
said they doubt if they could anyone in

2122
01:20:38,870 --> 01:20:36,960
the touch size and the arms of that

2123
01:20:40,709 --> 01:20:38,880
could lift 50 pounds on the earth or

2124
01:20:42,550 --> 01:20:40,719
anywhere else and you know they doubted

2125
01:20:44,470 --> 01:20:42,560
they had that strength

2126
01:20:46,470 --> 01:20:44,480
but she said what

2127
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:46,480
the one that hadn't been

2128
01:20:51,110 --> 01:20:48,639
uh mutilated

2129
01:20:53,669 --> 01:20:51,120
to a great extent it reminded him of a

2130
01:20:56,149 --> 01:20:53,679
real small ancient chinese person no

2131
01:20:57,189 --> 01:20:56,159
hair at all

2132
01:20:58,870 --> 01:20:57,199
and

2133
01:21:00,470 --> 01:20:58,880
very very

2134
01:21:02,229 --> 01:21:00,480
delicate skin

2135
01:21:03,910 --> 01:21:02,239
in fact he said the skin would look like

2136
01:21:07,110 --> 01:21:03,920
they could almost see through it almost

2137
01:21:10,950 --> 01:21:09,189
um

2138
01:21:13,430 --> 01:21:10,960
why don't you give me a paragraph on the

2139
01:21:16,149 --> 01:21:13,440
ears and the nostrils

2140
01:21:17,990 --> 01:21:16,159
well the years like i think i stated to

2141
01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:18,000
you that the years

2142
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:20,560
there was a couple of small orifices one

2143
01:21:25,750 --> 01:21:22,960
on top of the other with two little lobe

2144
01:21:27,510 --> 01:21:25,760
flaps one over the other

2145
01:21:29,189 --> 01:21:27,520
they didn't really know how those if

2146
01:21:31,189 --> 01:21:29,199
they had any significance how they

2147
01:21:33,110 --> 01:21:31,199
worked or what it wasn't i mean they

2148
01:21:36,229 --> 01:21:33,120
didn't go into that

2149
01:21:38,709 --> 01:21:36,239
the nose was only a couple of very small

2150
01:21:40,390 --> 01:21:38,719
orifices holes right there just above

2151
01:21:42,070 --> 01:21:40,400
the lip line

2152
01:21:44,229 --> 01:21:42,080
but it had uh

2153
01:21:46,629 --> 01:21:44,239
there wasn't anything covering it and it

2154
01:21:49,350 --> 01:21:46,639
was just like two small indentations

2155
01:21:51,750 --> 01:21:49,360
there and that was it

2156
01:21:57,750 --> 01:21:51,760
said it was very unusual

2157
01:22:03,189 --> 01:21:59,669
yeah

2158
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:03,199
the hands well there was one hand

2159
01:22:06,390 --> 01:22:04,880
there was there was one hand that

2160
01:22:09,669 --> 01:22:06,400
evidently

2161
01:22:11,910 --> 01:22:09,679
that wasn't attached to the arm

2162
01:22:13,990 --> 01:22:11,920
and she said that where she got sick and

2163
01:22:15,910 --> 01:22:14,000
left the room was that this doctor had

2164
01:22:17,270 --> 01:22:15,920
the long force up and picked the hand up

2165
01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:17,280
and turned it over

2166
01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:19,440
and that's when they noticed

2167
01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:21,600
that there wasn't any thumb none of them

2168
01:22:27,910 --> 01:22:23,679
had none of the bodies had any thumbs or

2169
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:27,920
anything they were just long very fine

2170
01:22:33,189 --> 01:22:31,120
very delicate fingers no fingernails

2171
01:22:34,790 --> 01:22:33,199
but right at the tip of each finger

2172
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:34,800
right at the tip of each finger it

2173
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,880
looked like there was a pad

2174
01:22:40,709 --> 01:22:38,800
and in this bed it looked like it might

2175
01:22:43,350 --> 01:22:40,719
have had very small little they were

2176
01:22:44,950 --> 01:22:43,360
like little suction cups but very many

2177
01:22:48,070 --> 01:22:44,960
suction cups the doctors that's the way

2178
01:23:04,870 --> 01:22:48,080
he explained it that was looking at it

2179
01:23:10,950 --> 01:23:06,790
it's amazing

2180
01:23:14,870 --> 01:23:12,149
obviously it wouldn't know about your

2181
01:23:16,709 --> 01:23:14,880
information yeah well see i've never

2182
01:23:18,470 --> 01:23:16,719
i've never discussed this with anyone my

2183
01:23:20,149 --> 01:23:18,480
father was the only person i really ever

2184
01:23:21,750 --> 01:23:20,159
discussed this i didn't discuss it at

2185
01:23:23,830 --> 01:23:21,760
the funeral home or anything else i

2186
01:23:25,030 --> 01:23:23,840
never discussed it with any of my family

2187
01:23:27,030 --> 01:23:25,040
period

2188
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:27,040
i never have until

2189
01:23:31,590 --> 01:23:30,080
i met stan freeman two years ago

2190
01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:31,600
it's the first time i ever discussed it

2191
01:23:34,870 --> 01:23:33,280
would you have an interest in some dubs

2192
01:23:37,350 --> 01:23:34,880
of testimony that we get from other

2193
01:23:39,669 --> 01:23:37,360
people here i'll be happy i'd love to

2194
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:39,679
yeah but i you know i'd love to i'd like

2195
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:42,000
to have a tape of mine also if you you

2196
01:23:45,189 --> 01:23:42,880
know

2197
01:23:47,669 --> 01:23:45,199
maybe you can send you two one free

2198
01:23:49,350 --> 01:23:47,679
champion my you know my daughter said if

2199
01:23:51,030 --> 01:23:49,360
you know i want a tape of this and i

2200
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:51,040
want to keep it you know and i want it

2201
01:23:58,709 --> 01:23:56,390
yeah i would love to you know whatever

2202
01:24:00,950 --> 01:23:58,719
if you guys feel comfortable i'd love to

2203
01:24:03,510 --> 01:24:00,960
you know have some tapes or whatever you

2204
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:03,520
know absolutely we've got quite a few

2205
01:24:08,229 --> 01:24:05,040
that we could probably run off what do

2206
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:08,239
you have vhs or a beta machine

2207
01:24:11,030 --> 01:24:09,760
i'll i'll see too that we get some

2208
01:24:12,149 --> 01:24:11,040
thoughts of other people's interviews

2209
01:24:25,510 --> 01:24:12,159
i'll just go

2210
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:40,310
let's start with the arms okay

2211
01:24:44,870 --> 01:24:43,189
but you were asking me to to describe

2212
01:24:46,709 --> 01:24:44,880
the arms

2213
01:24:49,110 --> 01:24:46,719
and this was another thing that the

2214
01:24:50,709 --> 01:24:49,120
lieutenant brought out that it was

2215
01:24:51,750 --> 01:24:50,719
that it was very

2216
01:24:54,149 --> 01:24:51,760
uh

2217
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:54,159
the difference between there and ours

2218
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:55,120
that

2219
01:25:04,550 --> 01:25:01,520
it was probably one and a half times

2220
01:25:06,709 --> 01:25:04,560
longer than the top part up here it was

2221
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:06,719
it was very odd looking it was very odd

2222
01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:09,040
she said

2223
01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:11,120
and

2224
01:25:16,390 --> 01:25:13,600
the uh

2225
01:25:18,149 --> 01:25:16,400
very small very small arms

2226
01:25:20,629 --> 01:25:18,159
very small

2227
01:25:23,350 --> 01:25:20,639
bone structure bone structure was

2228
01:25:25,189 --> 01:25:23,360
bone structure uh that of course i asked

2229
01:25:26,870 --> 01:25:25,199
her about the bones because

2230
01:25:28,629 --> 01:25:26,880
we were talking about the wrist bones

2231
01:25:30,470 --> 01:25:28,639
and everything and she said it was very

2232
01:25:32,709 --> 01:25:30,480
similar to ours but the bones were so

2233
01:25:34,550 --> 01:25:32,719
small that that their bones probably

2234
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:34,560
wasn't in the arms wasn't any larger

2235
01:25:38,470 --> 01:25:35,840
than my finger

2236
01:25:41,270 --> 01:25:39,430
um

2237
01:25:43,430 --> 01:25:41,280
okay now give me two or three sentences

2238
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:43,440
on how they were dressed

2239
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:45,440
she we never mentioned it

2240
01:25:49,510 --> 01:25:47,760
never talked about the dress did she say

2241
01:25:51,750 --> 01:25:49,520
anything about sex or was she able to

2242
01:25:53,590 --> 01:25:51,760
determine she said she really never she

2243
01:25:56,229 --> 01:25:53,600
was so sick and everything that never

2244
01:25:59,270 --> 01:25:56,239
even entered her mind

2245
01:26:02,149 --> 01:25:59,280
so that was it i guess not no way to

2246
01:26:03,350 --> 01:26:02,159
determine the sex of the beings then

2247
01:26:05,590 --> 01:26:03,360
well

2248
01:26:07,750 --> 01:26:05,600
it wasn't discussed with her it probably

2249
01:26:09,510 --> 01:26:07,760
was but she

2250
01:26:11,110 --> 01:26:09,520
like she said i was so ill and so

2251
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:11,120
horrified that

2252
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:13,920
that i don't you know she said

2253
01:26:18,390 --> 01:26:16,400
she sat up all night and then she knew i

2254
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:18,400
was going to be real concerned you i was

2255
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:19,520
going to be

2256
01:26:23,590 --> 01:26:21,360
on what happened you know she knew that

2257
01:26:25,030 --> 01:26:23,600
i got in trouble probably

2258
01:26:27,270 --> 01:26:25,040
and she would

2259
01:26:28,709 --> 01:26:27,280
drew that you know she sat up and made

2260
01:26:30,390 --> 01:26:28,719
little notes

2261
01:26:32,629 --> 01:26:30,400
on the back of these little prescription

2262
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:32,639
pads and that's what

2263
01:26:36,070 --> 01:26:34,159
she had her notes made out and that's

2264
01:26:38,550 --> 01:26:36,080
what we discussed particularly what she

2265
01:26:41,270 --> 01:26:38,560
had i was very interested in that you

2266
01:26:42,070 --> 01:26:41,280
had kept so many records

2267
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:42,080
of

2268
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:43,840
the incident and pertaining to

2269
01:26:48,709 --> 01:26:46,000
everything that you knew regarding the

2270
01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:48,719
ufo correction and you kept them in the

2271
01:26:53,669 --> 01:26:51,120
you know there at ballard's and then

2272
01:26:55,110 --> 01:26:53,679
later they disappeared could you give us

2273
01:26:57,110 --> 01:26:55,120
well

2274
01:26:59,270 --> 01:26:57,120
i was really in charge of all the

2275
01:27:00,709 --> 01:26:59,280
military contracts i did all the bids

2276
01:27:03,270 --> 01:27:00,719
and everything and really took care of

2277
01:27:05,430 --> 01:27:03,280
all the contracts myself

2278
01:27:07,030 --> 01:27:05,440
and uh that was

2279
01:27:09,430 --> 01:27:07,040
that was one of my duties at the funeral

2280
01:27:11,189 --> 01:27:09,440
home to take care of the military

2281
01:27:13,110 --> 01:27:11,199
and i had a file i had a fight on

2282
01:27:14,550 --> 01:27:13,120
everything that ever happened at walker

2283
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:14,560
air base to

2284
01:27:17,030 --> 01:27:15,360
like

2285
01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:17,040
bob hope and different some of the big

2286
01:27:20,149 --> 01:27:18,719
orchestras and everybody'd come and have

2287
01:27:22,390 --> 01:27:20,159
the big parties and everything in the

2288
01:27:24,070 --> 01:27:22,400
hangars you know i tended but i would

2289
01:27:25,750 --> 01:27:24,080
also have pictures and everything i had

2290
01:27:28,149 --> 01:27:25,760
a personal file

2291
01:27:29,830 --> 01:27:28,159
that i kept and i kept everything in

2292
01:27:30,629 --> 01:27:29,840
this file that

2293
01:27:36,070 --> 01:27:30,639
that

2294
01:27:38,149 --> 01:27:36,080
and this is where i put the

2295
01:27:40,390 --> 01:27:38,159
diagrams and the notes that she gave me

2296
01:27:43,669 --> 01:27:40,400
was in my personal file

2297
01:27:46,629 --> 01:27:43,679
well then the ballard funeral home sold

2298
01:27:48,470 --> 01:27:46,639
at a later date several years later

2299
01:27:50,470 --> 01:27:48,480
that it sold

2300
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:50,480
and the people that bought the funeral

2301
01:27:54,709 --> 01:27:53,120
home these were files that they were the

2302
01:27:55,590 --> 01:27:54,719
old files that

2303
01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:55,600
that

2304
01:28:01,430 --> 01:27:59,679
the furnace room

2305
01:28:04,070 --> 01:28:01,440
and they had all the military had all

2306
01:28:05,669 --> 01:28:04,080
the military files together in one

2307
01:28:08,070 --> 01:28:05,679
filing cabinet everything had happened

2308
01:28:10,149 --> 01:28:08,080
at the base and everything we also had

2309
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:10,159
the contract at fort sumner air base

2310
01:28:14,550 --> 01:28:11,760
they had a glider

2311
01:28:15,830 --> 01:28:14,560
base there and also uh

2312
01:28:19,110 --> 01:28:15,840
fighter pilot

2313
01:28:20,470 --> 01:28:19,120
training there and the p 47s and 51s and

2314
01:28:22,390 --> 01:28:20,480
so on

2315
01:28:25,030 --> 01:28:22,400
and so i had all the files everything

2316
01:28:26,310 --> 01:28:25,040
was one filing cabinet was strictly all

2317
01:28:28,070 --> 01:28:26,320
military

2318
01:28:30,229 --> 01:28:28,080
and that's where i had all this followed

2319
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:30,239
away i had all this filed away i even

2320
01:28:34,629 --> 01:28:32,239
had the newspaper that walter haught the

2321
01:28:36,709 --> 01:28:34,639
headlines and all this the next day i

2322
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:36,719
had all that in his files what interests

2323
01:28:40,950 --> 01:28:38,880
me is that i have all these files

2324
01:28:42,709 --> 01:28:40,960
all these different topics only one was

2325
01:28:44,629 --> 01:28:42,719
missing when he went to look for it that

2326
01:28:47,110 --> 01:28:44,639
was the one pertaining to this yeah can

2327
01:28:48,950 --> 01:28:47,120
you review that for us well

2328
01:28:52,229 --> 01:28:48,960
no there are some of the other files

2329
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:52,239
were missing also not just my own file

2330
01:28:58,310 --> 01:28:55,199
but my file was in the same

2331
01:29:00,870 --> 01:28:58,320
that yeah most of most all my files my

2332
01:29:02,310 --> 01:29:00,880
file was gone but there was also some

2333
01:29:05,510 --> 01:29:02,320
files

2334
01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:05,520
uh they they had really actually had

2335
01:29:09,030 --> 01:29:07,120
destroyed most of the files that were

2336
01:29:10,629 --> 01:29:09,040
obtaining after certain years they just

2337
01:29:12,310 --> 01:29:10,639
gotten rid of them

2338
01:29:13,830 --> 01:29:12,320
and they told

2339
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:13,840
the manager funeral home that's the

2340
01:29:18,709 --> 01:29:16,080
manager their name raymond otero also

2341
01:29:21,270 --> 01:29:18,719
told me that he knew my file was there

2342
01:29:23,430 --> 01:29:21,280
joe lucas that was a

2343
01:29:24,870 --> 01:29:23,440
manager at that time knew my files were

2344
01:29:27,590 --> 01:29:24,880
there

2345
01:29:28,790 --> 01:29:27,600
and he and i had some personal problems

2346
01:29:30,709 --> 01:29:28,800
and

2347
01:29:32,390 --> 01:29:30,719
he said get rid of the you know get rid

2348
01:29:34,550 --> 01:29:32,400
of his damn files we'd only think it

2349
01:29:37,189 --> 01:29:34,560
reminded us of him

2350
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:37,199
that's where the files went really

2351
01:29:42,390 --> 01:29:39,440
there was some discussion about how to

2352
01:29:44,390 --> 01:29:42,400
preserve the bodies right um

2353
01:29:46,149 --> 01:29:44,400
dry ice and that sort of thing and uh

2354
01:29:49,830 --> 01:29:46,159
you kind of oh well like where they got

2355
01:29:51,990 --> 01:29:49,840
the ice and things okay this okay they

2356
01:29:53,669 --> 01:29:52,000
then the mortuary softs officer what

2357
01:29:55,750 --> 01:29:53,679
okay how would what would you do if you

2358
01:29:57,990 --> 01:29:55,760
had to ship one out

2359
01:29:59,830 --> 01:29:58,000
and but you couldn't do anything to it i

2360
01:30:01,669 --> 01:29:59,840
mean that you couldn't you know do any

2361
01:30:03,590 --> 01:30:01,679
treatment training what would you do

2362
01:30:06,470 --> 01:30:03,600
i said the only thing you could do that

2363
01:30:08,390 --> 01:30:06,480
i would suggest the first thing if you

2364
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:08,400
have a problem don't want to destroy any

2365
01:30:12,950 --> 01:30:11,199
tissue any any blood cells anything that

2366
01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:12,960
you don't want to destroy i would

2367
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:15,760
suggest that you contact the pathologist

2368
01:30:20,950 --> 01:30:17,760
and i said i'm sure the

2369
01:30:23,189 --> 01:30:20,960
the army airfield i mean somebody's got

2370
01:30:25,430 --> 01:30:23,199
some pathologists around i didn't know

2371
01:30:27,430 --> 01:30:25,440
that they had one in roswell but i said

2372
01:30:28,709 --> 01:30:27,440
if i were you i'd call a pathologist and

2373
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:28,719
take you know

2374
01:30:32,470 --> 01:30:30,800
ask him what how he would like to have

2375
01:30:34,870 --> 01:30:32,480
it done or whatever you're going to do

2376
01:30:36,310 --> 01:30:34,880
or whatever it is you better do what the

2377
01:30:38,070 --> 01:30:36,320
pathologist because he's the one that's

2378
01:30:39,510 --> 01:30:38,080
going to do the autopsy and make the

2379
01:30:41,270 --> 01:30:39,520
reports

2380
01:30:43,510 --> 01:30:41,280
but i said the only thing i know you

2381
01:30:45,430 --> 01:30:43,520
could do is just go to clarity's dairy

2382
01:30:46,390 --> 01:30:45,440
or sunset creamery we had two at the

2383
01:30:48,149 --> 01:30:46,400
time

2384
01:30:51,430 --> 01:30:48,159
and buy all the dry ice you can and pack

2385
01:30:54,229 --> 01:30:51,440
them in dry ice if that's possible

2386
01:30:55,910 --> 01:30:54,239
and that's what i suggest that they do

2387
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:55,920
excuse me

2388
01:30:58,709 --> 01:30:57,920
you're hitting my mic with your

2389
01:31:10,790 --> 01:30:58,719
no

2390
01:31:13,669 --> 01:31:12,310
as a suggestion you might want to do

2391
01:31:14,870 --> 01:31:13,679
that part again if you think you'd like

2392
01:31:18,110 --> 01:31:14,880
to use it because

2393
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:25,430
[Laughter]

2394
01:31:29,189 --> 01:31:27,350
all right let's go back and go over the

2395
01:31:31,990 --> 01:31:29,199
dry ice again

2396
01:31:33,990 --> 01:31:32,000
well okay

2397
01:31:35,830 --> 01:31:34,000
what i suggested that

2398
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:35,840
the more to the mortuary officer i

2399
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:37,760
suggested this to the mortuary officer

2400
01:31:40,629 --> 01:31:39,040
after when we

2401
01:31:43,430 --> 01:31:40,639
we discussed this probably for 20

2402
01:31:45,590 --> 01:31:43,440
minutes or better on the telephone

2403
01:31:47,430 --> 01:31:45,600
and i said i kept telling him hey you

2404
01:31:48,950 --> 01:31:47,440
know if you have a problem if you got

2405
01:31:50,870 --> 01:31:48,960
something out there if you need our

2406
01:31:52,790 --> 01:31:50,880
services we have the contract i would be

2407
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:52,800
glad to come out and help you

2408
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:54,880
take care of it he said no this is for

2409
01:31:58,790 --> 01:31:56,880
future kept always referring this was

2410
01:32:00,550 --> 01:31:58,800
for future use in case we did have

2411
01:32:02,229 --> 01:32:00,560
something

2412
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:02,239
but

2413
01:32:07,270 --> 01:32:04,800
then i i said well you know first thing

2414
01:32:08,790 --> 01:32:07,280
you better do you better get a hold of a

2415
01:32:11,189 --> 01:32:08,800
pathologist i don't know whether you

2416
01:32:13,590 --> 01:32:11,199
have one at the base i don't but i know

2417
01:32:15,430 --> 01:32:13,600
you probably have the top pathologist

2418
01:32:16,629 --> 01:32:15,440
you know something similar to those

2419
01:32:18,229 --> 01:32:16,639
words

2420
01:32:20,229 --> 01:32:18,239
and i said that's what i do and you

2421
01:32:22,390 --> 01:32:20,239
better let him give you the instructions

2422
01:32:23,590 --> 01:32:22,400
and then you better do what he tells you

2423
01:32:25,669 --> 01:32:23,600
to do because he's the one that's going

2424
01:32:27,430 --> 01:32:25,679
to do the autopsy

2425
01:32:29,110 --> 01:32:27,440
and you know if that's if it's this

2426
01:32:31,590 --> 01:32:29,120
sensitive you better do what he tells

2427
01:32:33,750 --> 01:32:31,600
you but i said the only other suggestion

2428
01:32:36,790 --> 01:32:33,760
i can make that you go to clarity's

2429
01:32:39,030 --> 01:32:36,800
dairy or you go to sunset creamery

2430
01:32:40,629 --> 01:32:39,040
buy all the dry ice you can and pack

2431
01:32:42,310 --> 01:32:40,639
whatever you have whatever the problem

2432
01:32:44,229 --> 01:32:42,320
is you better pack it in dry ice and

2433
01:32:45,750 --> 01:32:44,239
then do whatever you have to do with it

2434
01:32:49,270 --> 01:32:45,760
because that's the only way

2435
01:32:51,830 --> 01:32:49,280
they tried to put it in the morgue

2436
01:32:52,790 --> 01:32:51,840
out tomorrow they had two refrigerated

2437
01:32:54,629 --> 01:32:52,800
body

2438
01:32:56,310 --> 01:32:54,639
compartments that we used to put them in

2439
01:32:58,149 --> 01:32:56,320
and then we'd go out and get the bodies

2440
01:33:00,070 --> 01:32:58,159
from there but they always brought the

2441
01:33:02,629 --> 01:33:00,080
airmen to us but on the dependents and

2442
01:33:04,709 --> 01:33:02,639
everything we went out for them

2443
01:33:06,629 --> 01:33:04,719
but they weren't cold enough in the end

2444
01:33:08,070 --> 01:33:06,639
it became so offensive they were afraid

2445
01:33:11,350 --> 01:33:08,080
they were going to you know we were

2446
01:33:13,350 --> 01:33:11,360
going to upset everybody in the hospital

2447
01:33:14,790 --> 01:33:13,360
so they later moved them over to a

2448
01:33:16,310 --> 01:33:14,800
hangar

2449
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:16,320
and that's less that she knew anything

2450
01:33:19,750 --> 01:33:17,760
about him too the lieutenant knew

2451
01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:19,760
anything about them

2452
01:33:23,030 --> 01:33:21,520
but she didn't know how they moved it or

2453
01:33:25,669 --> 01:33:23,040
anything about it but

2454
01:33:27,669 --> 01:33:25,679
they were taken to a hangar

2455
01:33:29,189 --> 01:33:27,679
because the offense the odor was so

2456
01:33:30,950 --> 01:33:29,199
offensive they couldn't

2457
01:33:33,030 --> 01:33:30,960
that likely said it was upsetting

2458
01:33:34,709 --> 01:33:33,040
everything

2459
01:33:36,709 --> 01:33:34,719
it's great

2460
01:33:37,990 --> 01:33:36,719
fantastic

2461
01:33:39,910 --> 01:33:38,000
yeah

2462
01:33:42,229 --> 01:33:39,920
did she tell you where she thought or

2463
01:33:43,270 --> 01:33:42,239
where she was told the bodies went from

2464
01:33:45,910 --> 01:33:43,280
roswell

2465
01:33:47,430 --> 01:33:45,920
i'm sorry where the bodies went from did

2466
01:33:49,510 --> 01:33:47,440
you know where they were shipped out did

2467
01:33:51,189 --> 01:33:49,520
you know where they went she didn't know

2468
01:33:52,070 --> 01:33:51,199
she never told me she never mentioned

2469
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:52,080
any

2470
01:33:56,550 --> 01:33:54,480
no suggestion whatsoever she just said

2471
01:33:58,870 --> 01:33:56,560
that the last she heard they were in the

2472
01:34:08,870 --> 01:33:58,880
hangar and that's all she knows

2473
01:34:12,229 --> 01:34:09,830
okay

2474
01:34:13,669 --> 01:34:12,239
uh jess how about just saying your whole

2475
01:34:16,149 --> 01:34:13,679
name so that we can

2476
01:34:19,430 --> 01:34:16,159
make sure we get everything right

2477
01:34:21,270 --> 01:34:19,440
jesse antoine marcel seriously serious

2478
01:34:24,390 --> 01:34:21,280
antoine and trump

2479
01:34:26,629 --> 01:34:24,400
and you are a physician correct and what

2480
01:34:29,350 --> 01:34:26,639
what kind of field of medicine do you

2481
01:34:31,189 --> 01:34:29,360
practice well i specialize in ear nose

2482
01:34:33,430 --> 01:34:31,199
and throat conditions you know

2483
01:34:37,990 --> 01:34:33,440
tonsillitis ear infections

2484
01:34:41,189 --> 01:34:40,149
and you also are in the national guard

2485
01:34:42,149 --> 01:34:41,199
correct

2486
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:42,159
how long you've been serving the

2487
01:34:48,149 --> 01:34:43,360
national time

2488
01:34:52,229 --> 01:34:49,030
uh

2489
01:34:53,590 --> 01:34:52,239
jess i wonder if i can take you back

2490
01:34:58,310 --> 01:34:53,600
to uh

2491
01:35:01,830 --> 01:35:00,070
that would you had an idea about what

2492
01:35:04,070 --> 01:35:01,840
time of the night that was and what you

2493
01:35:05,990 --> 01:35:04,080
were doing at the time well i was asleep

2494
01:35:08,629 --> 01:35:06,000
for one thing i'm not

2495
01:35:09,750 --> 01:35:08,639
i want to say it was very early hours it

2496
01:35:11,350 --> 01:35:09,760
was either very late in the evening and

2497
01:35:12,950 --> 01:35:11,360
very early in the morning

2498
01:35:14,629 --> 01:35:12,960
when he came back

2499
01:35:17,350 --> 01:35:14,639
and i had awakened

2500
01:35:20,709 --> 01:35:17,360
both myself and my mother

2501
01:35:23,030 --> 01:35:20,719
and why did he make you wake you both up

2502
01:35:25,109 --> 01:35:23,040
he had something you wanted to show us

2503
01:35:26,870 --> 01:35:25,119
this apparently was some

2504
01:35:29,669 --> 01:35:26,880
debris or something he brought in from

2505
01:35:31,669 --> 01:35:29,679
the field at that time and

2506
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:31,679
i understand he was on his way to the

2507
01:35:35,430 --> 01:35:33,360
air base to deliver this but he felt

2508
01:35:37,590 --> 01:35:35,440
that this was unusual enough that he

2509
01:35:38,790 --> 01:35:37,600
wanted us to see it first before he

2510
01:35:42,149 --> 01:35:38,800
delivered it to

2511
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:42,159
his proper destination and what happened

2512
01:35:47,030 --> 01:35:44,400
what happened after he woke you up

2513
01:35:48,709 --> 01:35:47,040
well he was as i recall very excited and

2514
01:35:50,550 --> 01:35:48,719
uh again he said i want to show you

2515
01:35:51,830 --> 01:35:50,560
something and

2516
01:35:55,350 --> 01:35:51,840
so i got my

2517
01:35:57,590 --> 01:35:55,360
my house coat on i did my mother and

2518
01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:57,600
he had gone out to the car and brought

2519
01:36:00,950 --> 01:35:59,440
back in some

2520
01:36:03,430 --> 01:36:00,960
metallic debris i believe it was in a

2521
01:36:05,109 --> 01:36:03,440
box i know

2522
01:36:06,709 --> 01:36:05,119
i don't recall whether i walked outside

2523
01:36:08,470 --> 01:36:06,719
with him or not but

2524
01:36:11,350 --> 01:36:08,480
he made it seem like the

2525
01:36:12,470 --> 01:36:11,360
1942 buick we had was loaded with this

2526
01:36:15,350 --> 01:36:12,480
stuff

2527
01:36:18,149 --> 01:36:15,360
in the back seat and in the trunk area

2528
01:36:21,109 --> 01:36:18,159
at any rate he brought the material in

2529
01:36:23,270 --> 01:36:21,119
and spread it on the kitchen floor

2530
01:36:24,950 --> 01:36:23,280
and in an effort to

2531
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:24,960
try to piece it together

2532
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:27,600
like a jigsaw plus if you get some

2533
01:36:32,390 --> 01:36:30,320
idea of the form on this but

2534
01:36:34,390 --> 01:36:32,400
unfortunately there's too much of it too

2535
01:36:36,709 --> 01:36:34,400
finely divided to do that

2536
01:36:39,109 --> 01:36:36,719
how old were you at the time

2537
01:36:41,430 --> 01:36:39,119
uh 11.

2538
01:36:43,270 --> 01:36:41,440
and uh when he spread all this material

2539
01:36:45,030 --> 01:36:43,280
out on the floor what was your

2540
01:36:46,390 --> 01:36:45,040
impression about

2541
01:36:48,229 --> 01:36:46,400
the

2542
01:36:50,070 --> 01:36:48,239
what this what this material was like

2543
01:36:51,830 --> 01:36:50,080
how would you describe it well initially

2544
01:36:54,390 --> 01:36:51,840
just looking at what's this all about

2545
01:36:55,750 --> 01:36:54,400
you know sleepo

2546
01:36:58,229 --> 01:36:55,760
fish but then when you get down and

2547
01:37:00,470 --> 01:36:58,239
looking at it uh it was the unusual

2548
01:37:01,750 --> 01:37:00,480
character of the debris and

2549
01:37:03,270 --> 01:37:01,760
i want to say that he said something

2550
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:03,280
like this is from a flying saucer but

2551
01:37:06,229 --> 01:37:05,360
i'm not sure that he said that but the

2552
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:06,239
meeting was clear that there was

2553
01:37:09,990 --> 01:37:07,920
something very special

2554
01:37:11,590 --> 01:37:10,000
and he wanted us to look at it

2555
01:37:15,189 --> 01:37:11,600
and what's your recollection about what

2556
01:37:17,430 --> 01:37:15,199
the material looks like felt like

2557
01:37:20,070 --> 01:37:17,440
well i can divide into three major

2558
01:37:21,669 --> 01:37:20,080
categories i'm thinking back on it quite

2559
01:37:23,189 --> 01:37:21,679
a few times

2560
01:37:25,350 --> 01:37:23,199
there was a lot of

2561
01:37:26,629 --> 01:37:25,360
rather thick foil like

2562
01:37:28,950 --> 01:37:26,639
material

2563
01:37:32,149 --> 01:37:28,960
kind of

2564
01:37:35,510 --> 01:37:32,159
not a shiny aluminum but burnished or a

2565
01:37:37,590 --> 01:37:35,520
slate gray type of aluminum metal

2566
01:37:39,750 --> 01:37:37,600
there was a black

2567
01:37:41,669 --> 01:37:39,760
plastic type debris like bakelite which

2568
01:37:42,790 --> 01:37:41,679
was shattered it was very brittle

2569
01:37:45,030 --> 01:37:42,800
material

2570
01:37:50,670 --> 01:37:45,040
and then there were fragments of what

2571
01:37:55,030 --> 01:37:53,189
[Music]

2572
01:37:57,350 --> 01:37:55,040
let's let's talk a little bit about each

2573
01:37:59,669 --> 01:37:57,360
category for a little bit of detail if

2574
01:38:02,550 --> 01:37:59,679
you will let's talk about first the foil

2575
01:38:05,590 --> 01:38:02,560
light substance what

2576
01:38:06,790 --> 01:38:05,600
what sort of what was the size of this

2577
01:38:08,229 --> 01:38:06,800
material

2578
01:38:09,990 --> 01:38:08,239
well i don't recall seeing any piece

2579
01:38:11,030 --> 01:38:10,000
that was greater than four to six inches

2580
01:38:14,550 --> 01:38:11,040
in

2581
01:38:19,189 --> 01:38:17,270
i don't recall whether i tried to test

2582
01:38:20,629 --> 01:38:19,199
it for being able to tear it or bend it

2583
01:38:21,990 --> 01:38:20,639
or anything like that

2584
01:38:26,310 --> 01:38:22,000
it was very light

2585
01:38:29,270 --> 01:38:26,320
and again a dull metallic gray color

2586
01:38:31,510 --> 01:38:29,280
and there was a lot of that

2587
01:38:36,470 --> 01:38:31,520
how thick would you describe this

2588
01:38:40,310 --> 01:38:38,629
was thicker than the usual

2589
01:38:41,669 --> 01:38:40,320
kitchen foil

2590
01:38:43,750 --> 01:38:41,679
i guess there's a

2591
01:38:45,990 --> 01:38:43,760
newer foil out now for heavy-duty use

2592
01:38:48,149 --> 01:38:46,000
that is used in uh storing food and

2593
01:38:50,709 --> 01:38:48,159
that's approximately what it was like in

2594
01:38:52,470 --> 01:38:50,719
terms of thickness thickness any other

2595
01:38:54,229 --> 01:38:52,480
similarities to

2596
01:38:56,390 --> 01:38:54,239
everyday household items that people

2597
01:38:59,510 --> 01:38:56,400
well it's metallic you know that's all i

2598
01:39:03,750 --> 01:39:02,550
and the pieces of of the foil-like

2599
01:39:06,390 --> 01:39:03,760
substance

2600
01:39:09,669 --> 01:39:06,400
uh what shape were they

2601
01:39:09,679 --> 01:39:15,109
shredded at least today on

2602
01:39:19,669 --> 01:39:17,430
and it was a lot of this material

2603
01:39:21,669 --> 01:39:19,679
well enough to cover the floor

2604
01:39:23,189 --> 01:39:21,679
was this uh and more because there was a

2605
01:39:24,709 --> 01:39:23,199
lot more left in the car that's what i

2606
01:39:27,910 --> 01:39:24,719
was going to ask he didn't break in all

2607
01:39:30,390 --> 01:39:29,030
okay

2608
01:39:32,470 --> 01:39:30,400
um

2609
01:39:34,390 --> 01:39:32,480
the the weight of this material you

2610
01:39:36,390 --> 01:39:34,400
described as light

2611
01:39:38,229 --> 01:39:36,400
would you would you say that it was

2612
01:39:42,149 --> 01:39:38,239
unusually light lighter than you would

2613
01:39:44,149 --> 01:39:42,159
expect or heavier or anything anything

2614
01:39:46,149 --> 01:39:44,159
at all unusual about its weight well

2615
01:39:48,709 --> 01:39:46,159
feathers

2616
01:39:49,430 --> 01:39:48,719
very very very light in other words you

2617
01:39:51,030 --> 01:39:49,440
could

2618
01:39:52,310 --> 01:39:51,040
take a piece and they wouldn't just fall

2619
01:39:54,790 --> 01:39:52,320
to the floor

2620
01:39:56,550 --> 01:39:54,800
drift down

2621
01:39:58,950 --> 01:39:56,560
no that's very interesting and uh did

2622
01:40:01,430 --> 01:39:58,960
you actually see that i

2623
01:40:02,709 --> 01:40:01,440
no i did not but this is what you know i

2624
01:40:06,149 --> 01:40:02,719
would have thought it would be like you

2625
01:40:11,590 --> 01:40:09,430
why is the fabric interesting the uh

2626
01:40:14,149 --> 01:40:11,600
what you described is a almost plastic

2627
01:40:15,830 --> 01:40:14,159
or bake light like material tell me a

2628
01:40:19,350 --> 01:40:15,840
little more about that

2629
01:40:22,870 --> 01:40:19,360
well it's a black brown in color

2630
01:40:25,109 --> 01:40:22,880
again irregular pieces

2631
01:40:27,189 --> 01:40:25,119
about a 16th of an inch maybe a little

2632
01:40:29,109 --> 01:40:27,199
bit greater in thickness

2633
01:40:30,470 --> 01:40:29,119
and brittle

2634
01:40:32,310 --> 01:40:30,480
at least i suspect it was brittle

2635
01:40:35,270 --> 01:40:32,320
because it shattered

2636
01:40:38,950 --> 01:40:37,030
i want to make sure i understand you you

2637
01:40:41,030 --> 01:40:38,960
didn't actually see it shattered

2638
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:41,040
but it appeared to have been shattered

2639
01:40:44,470 --> 01:40:42,320
yeah i didn't try to

2640
01:40:48,550 --> 01:40:44,480
bend or test any of these things i just

2641
01:40:53,189 --> 01:40:50,550
anything else unusual what about the

2642
01:40:54,149 --> 01:40:53,199
weight of this material

2643
01:40:55,669 --> 01:40:54,159
classic

2644
01:40:57,990 --> 01:40:55,679
very light also

2645
01:41:01,590 --> 01:40:58,000
you know it's kind of hard to i don't

2646
01:41:06,470 --> 01:41:03,109
anything else

2647
01:41:08,310 --> 01:41:06,480
worthy of comment about this material

2648
01:41:11,669 --> 01:41:08,320
would you recall

2649
01:41:13,030 --> 01:41:11,679
basically just the description the color

2650
01:41:15,590 --> 01:41:13,040
shatter type

2651
01:41:17,189 --> 01:41:15,600
bakelite butchering like that

2652
01:41:20,070 --> 01:41:17,199
and how about what you describe as

2653
01:41:22,070 --> 01:41:20,080
i-beams what were those like

2654
01:41:23,430 --> 01:41:22,080
well they were

2655
01:41:25,510 --> 01:41:23,440
again looked like the same type of

2656
01:41:26,950 --> 01:41:25,520
material that the foil-like materials

2657
01:41:29,669 --> 01:41:26,960
made up

2658
01:41:32,790 --> 01:41:31,669
dull gray

2659
01:41:35,030 --> 01:41:32,800
aluminum

2660
01:41:36,870 --> 01:41:35,040
except very light again

2661
01:41:38,070 --> 01:41:36,880
he's not trying to bend it or stress it

2662
01:41:40,149 --> 01:41:38,080
in any way

2663
01:41:43,109 --> 01:41:40,159
although the

2664
01:41:46,149 --> 01:41:43,119
piece i remember looking at was about

2665
01:41:47,109 --> 01:41:46,159
12 to 18 inches in length both ends i

2666
01:41:49,189 --> 01:41:47,119
think were

2667
01:41:50,709 --> 01:41:49,199
shattered or broken off wasn't a clean

2668
01:41:51,990 --> 01:41:50,719
cut

2669
01:41:53,990 --> 01:41:52,000
and

2670
01:41:55,669 --> 01:41:54,000
the material thickness

2671
01:41:56,709 --> 01:41:55,679
appeared to be about a sixteenth of an

2672
01:41:57,830 --> 01:41:56,719
inch

2673
01:42:00,470 --> 01:41:57,840
thickness

2674
01:42:01,750 --> 01:42:00,480
and what color was it again it's a dull

2675
01:42:03,430 --> 01:42:01,760
gray uh

2676
01:42:04,950 --> 01:42:03,440
like a flat balloon

2677
01:42:06,149 --> 01:42:04,960
finish i guess i mean a good way to

2678
01:42:08,870 --> 01:42:06,159
describe that

2679
01:42:09,669 --> 01:42:08,880
metallic metallic definitely metallic

2680
01:42:11,350 --> 01:42:09,679
okay

2681
01:42:13,430 --> 01:42:11,360
anything else unusual about this

2682
01:42:15,270 --> 01:42:13,440
particular piece of material well the

2683
01:42:17,830 --> 01:42:15,280
most unusual part of this whole thing

2684
01:42:20,070 --> 01:42:17,840
was what was on the i-beam on the inner

2685
01:42:23,270 --> 01:42:20,080
surface of an i-beam

2686
01:42:24,790 --> 01:42:23,280
because as you look at it head-on

2687
01:42:26,790 --> 01:42:24,800
there appeared to be

2688
01:42:29,669 --> 01:42:26,800
a type of writing

2689
01:42:30,870 --> 01:42:29,679
in the in the mainframe itself

2690
01:42:37,030 --> 01:42:30,880
uh

2691
01:42:39,990 --> 01:42:37,040
definitely a purplish violet hue

2692
01:42:42,229 --> 01:42:40,000
uh it did have an embossed appearance

2693
01:42:43,830 --> 01:42:42,239
because you could if i recall you can

2694
01:42:45,890 --> 01:42:43,840
rub your finger along and you tell it it

2695
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:45,900
had texture

2696
01:42:49,910 --> 01:42:47,600
[Music]

2697
01:42:51,590 --> 01:42:49,920
i don't recall anything any lines or

2698
01:42:53,590 --> 01:42:51,600
letters of any kind but it was more like

2699
01:42:57,669 --> 01:42:53,600
geometric shapes

2700
01:43:01,669 --> 01:43:00,470
well it's hard to describe it

2701
01:43:03,109 --> 01:43:01,679
it was a

2702
01:43:08,390 --> 01:43:03,119
curve

2703
01:43:11,030 --> 01:43:08,400
been some triangles and circles but uh

2704
01:43:12,790 --> 01:43:11,040
it's solid

2705
01:43:16,390 --> 01:43:12,800
is it possible you might have mistaken

2706
01:43:19,910 --> 01:43:16,400
it for russian japanese any other

2707
01:43:25,109 --> 01:43:22,550
anything like hieroglyphics well

2708
01:43:27,910 --> 01:43:25,119
in my my first impression was

2709
01:43:29,189 --> 01:43:27,920
this is egyptian hieroglyphics but uh i

2710
01:43:30,629 --> 01:43:29,199
knew enough at that time to know that it

2711
01:43:36,390 --> 01:43:30,639
wasn't because narcoleptics usually have

2712
01:43:41,669 --> 01:43:39,270
and the the lettering or we can call it

2713
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:41,679
lettering of these symbols individual

2714
01:43:45,430 --> 01:43:43,600
circles

2715
01:43:47,830 --> 01:43:45,440
okay uh were

2716
01:43:49,189 --> 01:43:47,840
were they were in color

2717
01:43:52,629 --> 01:43:49,199
yeah yes

2718
01:43:54,470 --> 01:43:52,639
but they were on a surface that was what

2719
01:43:56,629 --> 01:43:54,480
well the surface was the same color as

2720
01:43:59,030 --> 01:43:56,639
the breast mining

2721
01:44:00,709 --> 01:43:59,040
dull metallic gray

2722
01:44:02,550 --> 01:44:00,719
so it was just the symbols that were in

2723
01:44:04,629 --> 01:44:02,560
a kind of purple pink that's right that

2724
01:44:06,470 --> 01:44:04,639
was a color that caught your eye

2725
01:44:10,310 --> 01:44:06,480
here in all this massive

2726
01:44:15,990 --> 01:44:13,910
pieces there here's a flash of color

2727
01:44:18,229 --> 01:44:16,000
what do you recall your father saying

2728
01:44:21,510 --> 01:44:18,239
that night about how he came into

2729
01:44:23,510 --> 01:44:21,520
possession of this material

2730
01:44:25,430 --> 01:44:23,520
i don't recall a whole lot of the

2731
01:44:27,109 --> 01:44:25,440
mechanics or the logistics involved i do

2732
01:44:29,350 --> 01:44:27,119
know you've been

2733
01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:29,360
gone for quite a while i'm not sure

2734
01:44:33,990 --> 01:44:31,840
exactly how long he'd been going but

2735
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:34,000
he

2736
01:44:38,070 --> 01:44:35,679
i remember saying something about this

2737
01:44:41,510 --> 01:44:38,080
came from christ site or

2738
01:44:44,470 --> 01:44:41,520
from some village ranch or northwest

2739
01:44:47,910 --> 01:44:46,070
and

2740
01:44:49,830 --> 01:44:47,920
you said at the outset that he appeared

2741
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:49,840
to be excited

2742
01:44:53,270 --> 01:44:52,480
yeah that's really good

2743
01:44:57,030 --> 01:44:53,280
why

2744
01:45:00,709 --> 01:44:57,040
about this

2745
01:45:02,070 --> 01:45:00,719
because he felt something very unusual

2746
01:45:04,709 --> 01:45:02,080
he felt it was probably something we've

2747
01:45:06,390 --> 01:45:04,719
never seen before would ever see again

2748
01:45:07,669 --> 01:45:06,400
and again i want to

2749
01:45:09,189 --> 01:45:07,679
say that

2750
01:45:12,310 --> 01:45:09,199
he said the words flying sauce but i

2751
01:45:13,830 --> 01:45:12,320
cannot be sure about that i wouldn't i

2752
01:45:15,350 --> 01:45:13,840
almost possibly did but i can't recall

2753
01:45:17,189 --> 01:45:15,360
verbatim

2754
01:45:19,669 --> 01:45:17,199
when you said that your father had been

2755
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:19,679
gone for some time are you do you mean

2756
01:45:24,310 --> 01:45:22,000
hours or days or

2757
01:45:26,070 --> 01:45:24,320
well something again yeah my memory is

2758
01:45:27,990 --> 01:45:26,080
kind of easy about how long he was going

2759
01:45:30,390 --> 01:45:28,000
i know he was good

2760
01:45:32,470 --> 01:45:30,400
maybe more than 12 hours maybe

2761
01:45:33,750 --> 01:45:32,480
a day or so

2762
01:45:36,070 --> 01:45:33,760
and how long

2763
01:45:39,109 --> 01:45:36,080
was he at your home that night with the

2764
01:45:41,430 --> 01:45:39,119
material on the floor the total

2765
01:45:44,310 --> 01:45:41,440
time there was about 15 or 20 minutes

2766
01:45:46,629 --> 01:45:44,320
and what happened after that loaded up

2767
01:45:48,709 --> 01:45:46,639
back in the car and took off

2768
01:45:50,310 --> 01:45:48,719
uh do you know where he went well he was

2769
01:45:52,229 --> 01:45:50,320
going back to the base

2770
01:45:54,470 --> 01:45:52,239
that was my understanding when did you

2771
01:45:55,910 --> 01:45:54,480
next see him do you recall i think it

2772
01:45:57,830 --> 01:45:55,920
was the next day although i'm not

2773
01:46:00,310 --> 01:45:57,840
actually sure about that even

2774
01:46:02,550 --> 01:46:00,320
and did you have any conversation with

2775
01:46:04,470 --> 01:46:02,560
him about what it transpired since you

2776
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:04,480
had seen him last

2777
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:10,830
recall those

2778
01:46:15,109 --> 01:46:13,430
conversations i don't know that we had

2779
01:46:17,189 --> 01:46:15,119
talked about it very much afterwards

2780
01:46:18,629 --> 01:46:17,199
that uh the initial excitement had worn

2781
01:46:20,310 --> 01:46:18,639
off and then

2782
01:46:26,470 --> 01:46:20,320
then the whole deal kind of

2783
01:46:29,750 --> 01:46:27,750
there's still a feeling like there's

2784
01:46:34,310 --> 01:46:29,760
something very unusual about this it was

2785
01:46:38,830 --> 01:46:36,790
something in commonplace like they would

2786
01:46:41,109 --> 01:46:38,840
like to say whether or

2787
01:46:43,510 --> 01:46:41,119
not father didn't think it was a weather

2788
01:46:46,550 --> 01:46:43,520
balloon or a radar target

2789
01:46:48,950 --> 01:46:46,560
never did do you think it was

2790
01:46:50,709 --> 01:46:48,960
well even at that young age i

2791
01:46:51,669 --> 01:46:50,719
had kind of an interest in electronics

2792
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:51,679
and

2793
01:46:56,550 --> 01:46:54,639
the blooms

2794
01:46:58,070 --> 01:46:56,560
and not seeing pictures of radar targets

2795
01:46:59,669 --> 01:46:58,080
that was not important

2796
01:47:01,350 --> 01:46:59,679
was it like anything you've ever seen

2797
01:47:03,590 --> 01:47:01,360
before

2798
01:47:05,510 --> 01:47:03,600
uh not really

2799
01:47:09,990 --> 01:47:05,520
one thing obsessed with mark was those

2800
01:47:15,830 --> 01:47:13,350
did your father ever speculate about

2801
01:47:18,070 --> 01:47:15,840
what it was where it came from

2802
01:47:19,430 --> 01:47:18,080
we would talk about it periodically over

2803
01:47:22,390 --> 01:47:19,440
the next

2804
01:47:25,189 --> 01:47:22,400
several years and we'd always thought

2805
01:47:27,109 --> 01:47:25,199
that it was something very

2806
01:47:29,189 --> 01:47:27,119
unusual it would yeah i think initially

2807
01:47:31,510 --> 01:47:29,199
they might have thought it was even a

2808
01:47:35,590 --> 01:47:31,520
russian weapon or some headquarters

2809
01:47:37,109 --> 01:47:35,600
for the reason for that cover-up for the

2810
01:47:38,629 --> 01:47:37,119
varying the story but

2811
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:38,639
later uh

2812
01:47:43,270 --> 01:47:41,360
it was determined it was not a russian

2813
01:47:45,990 --> 01:47:43,280
so that left one of the possibilities

2814
01:47:47,189 --> 01:47:46,000
something from out of our atmosphere

2815
01:47:49,189 --> 01:47:47,199
was your father in the habit of

2816
01:47:50,390 --> 01:47:49,199
discussing his work he was in

2817
01:47:52,070 --> 01:47:50,400
intelligence

2818
01:47:56,550 --> 01:47:52,080
no

2819
01:48:00,390 --> 01:47:58,149
so i guess it wouldn't be real unusual

2820
01:48:03,669 --> 01:48:00,400
for him to be rather

2821
01:48:06,390 --> 01:48:05,510
he was not given to

2822
01:48:09,510 --> 01:48:06,400
you know

2823
01:48:14,550 --> 01:48:12,790
but he obviously did eventually talk

2824
01:48:15,990 --> 01:48:14,560
as time went on you know

2825
01:48:17,750 --> 01:48:16,000
the seed had been planted in the back of

2826
01:48:19,590 --> 01:48:17,760
our minds and there's something very

2827
01:48:21,910 --> 01:48:19,600
unusual about this and from time to time

2828
01:48:23,830 --> 01:48:21,920
you'd read about some ufo signing

2829
01:48:26,070 --> 01:48:23,840
in the paper and it would trigger

2830
01:48:28,470 --> 01:48:26,080
a little conversation about what this

2831
01:48:33,430 --> 01:48:30,950
knowing your father is dead

2832
01:48:35,270 --> 01:48:33,440
what do you think motivated him to

2833
01:48:37,830 --> 01:48:35,280
go public with this

2834
01:48:40,229 --> 01:48:37,840
account as as he did

2835
01:48:43,830 --> 01:48:40,239
well this didn't happen for years and he

2836
01:48:46,390 --> 01:48:43,840
was a radio amateur loved him radio

2837
01:48:48,629 --> 01:48:46,400
and i don't know the exact scenario but

2838
01:48:50,550 --> 01:48:48,639
i can picture that maybe

2839
01:48:52,950 --> 01:48:50,560
they're talking on him radios he was

2840
01:48:54,790 --> 01:48:52,960
talking about him radio with somebody

2841
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:54,800
and maybe the discussion came up about a

2842
01:48:58,950 --> 01:48:56,560
recent ufo sighting

2843
01:49:00,950 --> 01:48:58,960
and he would say oh by the way i

2844
01:49:03,350 --> 01:49:00,960
was involved with one and i could

2845
01:49:05,510 --> 01:49:03,360
picture that as being the mechanism that

2846
01:49:07,830 --> 01:49:05,520
this thing came out

2847
01:49:10,149 --> 01:49:07,840
i don't know that to be sure but that's

2848
01:49:11,189 --> 01:49:10,159
i think the most likely way

2849
01:49:12,629 --> 01:49:11,199
and when

2850
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:12,639
journalists

2851
01:49:16,709 --> 01:49:14,639
and

2852
01:49:19,830 --> 01:49:16,719
people came to

2853
01:49:22,070 --> 01:49:19,840
ask him to be interviewed for this uh

2854
01:49:23,430 --> 01:49:22,080
he did he do you think he had any reluct

2855
01:49:26,390 --> 01:49:23,440
do you know if he had any reluctance

2856
01:49:28,629 --> 01:49:26,400
about speaking more publicly to a wider

2857
01:49:31,510 --> 01:49:28,639
audience about this well this is

2858
01:49:33,030 --> 01:49:31,520
many years later and it lost track of

2859
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:33,040
touch with the

2860
01:49:36,950 --> 01:49:35,040
air force community and

2861
01:49:38,629 --> 01:49:36,960
i think at that time the uniqueness had

2862
01:49:44,709 --> 01:49:38,639
worn off of it where

2863
01:49:48,229 --> 01:49:46,550
uh

2864
01:49:49,830 --> 01:49:48,239
kevin i don't have any more questions

2865
01:49:51,430 --> 01:49:49,840
anything that we've failed to cover

2866
01:49:53,910 --> 01:49:51,440
that's important

2867
01:49:54,830 --> 01:49:53,920
when your dad came home

2868
01:49:57,669 --> 01:49:54,840
did he

2869
01:49:59,189 --> 01:49:57,679
ever suggest

2870
01:50:01,189 --> 01:49:59,199
you weren't supposed to talk about it is

2871
01:50:02,870 --> 01:50:01,199
there any kind of discussion about what

2872
01:50:04,790 --> 01:50:02,880
was said at the base and

2873
01:50:06,470 --> 01:50:04,800
let's not talk about this anymore in

2874
01:50:08,790 --> 01:50:06,480
those first few days

2875
01:50:11,350 --> 01:50:08,800
i don't recall that exactly but i think

2876
01:50:13,270 --> 01:50:11,360
the implications there

2877
01:50:14,709 --> 01:50:13,280
that it's over with don't say anything

2878
01:50:17,669 --> 01:50:14,719
more about it at least

2879
01:50:23,750 --> 01:50:19,589
did

2880
01:50:26,470 --> 01:50:23,760
after he came out with a story in 78

2881
01:50:28,550 --> 01:50:26,480
was there ever any contact

2882
01:50:29,990 --> 01:50:28,560
with anyone in pentagon or anybody from

2883
01:50:30,709 --> 01:50:30,000
the military suggesting that maybe he

2884
01:50:34,870 --> 01:50:30,719
had

2885
01:50:37,990 --> 01:50:36,709
going back to the first statement too i

2886
01:50:40,070 --> 01:50:38,000
never discussed this with any of my

2887
01:50:42,149 --> 01:50:40,080
friends either

2888
01:50:44,870 --> 01:50:42,159
i had a lot of friends

2889
01:50:45,750 --> 01:50:44,880
in acquaintances in roswell and

2890
01:50:50,870 --> 01:50:45,760
i

2891
01:50:52,870 --> 01:50:50,880
later on

2892
01:50:54,149 --> 01:50:52,880
you'd suggested that he was in high

2893
01:50:56,149 --> 01:50:54,159
school before you really ever discussed

2894
01:50:57,350 --> 01:50:56,159
it again with your dad

2895
01:50:58,629 --> 01:50:57,360
did you ever discuss it with any of your

2896
01:50:59,750 --> 01:50:58,639
friends in high school when stories

2897
01:51:01,589 --> 01:50:59,760
would come out in the newspapers or

2898
01:51:02,950 --> 01:51:01,599
suggest to anybody well you know these

2899
01:51:05,990 --> 01:51:02,960
things are real

2900
01:51:06,950 --> 01:51:06,000
i don't ever say anything about it when

2901
01:51:08,310 --> 01:51:06,960
you would see these stories in the

2902
01:51:10,310 --> 01:51:08,320
newspapers kind of what was your what

2903
01:51:13,030 --> 01:51:10,320
was your reaction to did you kind of i

2904
01:51:15,350 --> 01:51:13,040
know something more about it or well my

2905
01:51:17,990 --> 01:51:15,360
initial reaction is it goes these are

2906
01:51:20,470 --> 01:51:18,000
hoaxes and maybe a misidentification of

2907
01:51:23,430 --> 01:51:20,480
things but i do know one that was not

2908
01:51:24,390 --> 01:51:23,440
whole tournaments identification

2909
01:51:26,310 --> 01:51:24,400
was it

2910
01:51:28,310 --> 01:51:26,320
the feeling of you your father your

2911
01:51:30,310 --> 01:51:28,320
mother that it was extraterrestrial in

2912
01:51:32,149 --> 01:51:30,320
origin yes i

2913
01:51:33,669 --> 01:51:32,159
yeah we we felt it was all a very unique

2914
01:51:34,950 --> 01:51:33,679
experience

2915
01:51:36,709 --> 01:51:34,960
you know we just have to be in the right

2916
01:51:38,870 --> 01:51:36,719
place at the right time to

2917
01:51:39,990 --> 01:51:38,880
see this

2918
01:51:42,470 --> 01:51:40,000
but was your feeling that it was

2919
01:51:45,030 --> 01:51:42,480
actually trustworthy yes

2920
01:51:47,589 --> 01:51:45,040
actually my own personal thoughts was

2921
01:51:49,910 --> 01:51:47,599
the act we started sending satellites

2922
01:51:51,109 --> 01:51:49,920
around you know the russians in 1957

2923
01:51:53,189 --> 01:51:51,119
with the

2924
01:51:55,669 --> 01:51:53,199
sputnik i felt that maybe this was a

2925
01:51:56,790 --> 01:51:55,679
probe that happened to land on our

2926
01:52:00,950 --> 01:51:56,800
planet

2927
01:52:06,310 --> 01:52:04,550
when you had the debris in the kitchen

2928
01:52:11,669 --> 01:52:06,320
was there any odor associated with any

2929
01:52:16,070 --> 01:52:13,910
did the material feel cold to the touch

2930
01:52:18,070 --> 01:52:16,080
at all

2931
01:52:19,510 --> 01:52:18,080
well it was metallic you know it was a

2932
01:52:20,950 --> 01:52:19,520
hot night

2933
01:52:22,709 --> 01:52:20,960
so it didn't

2934
01:52:23,990 --> 01:52:22,719
you know it sure was the ambient air

2935
01:52:26,790 --> 01:52:24,000
temperature whatever that was at that

2936
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:29,109
is there any possibility

2937
01:52:32,550 --> 01:52:31,119
that your dad

2938
01:52:35,830 --> 01:52:32,560
might have slipped a piece out of the

2939
01:52:37,430 --> 01:52:35,840
box to keep fred's souvenir

2940
01:52:42,070 --> 01:52:37,440
he'd never think of doing something like

2941
01:52:45,990 --> 01:52:43,750
his background was intelligence was that

2942
01:52:47,430 --> 01:52:46,000
his job all through his

2943
01:52:50,870 --> 01:52:47,440
military career was he always in

2944
01:52:55,430 --> 01:52:50,880
intelligence well that in photo analysis

2945
01:52:57,750 --> 01:52:56,390
did

2946
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:57,760
there have been stories that he flew as

2947
01:53:03,669 --> 01:52:59,440
a gunner

2948
01:53:08,149 --> 01:53:05,910
he did man the guns you know that i

2949
01:53:09,750 --> 01:53:08,159
think would happen he was a

2950
01:53:12,629 --> 01:53:09,760
navigator or

2951
01:53:14,470 --> 01:53:12,639
he went along many times to to view the

2952
01:53:16,709 --> 01:53:14,480
bombing runs personally you know despite

2953
01:53:18,149 --> 01:53:16,719
the fact they had photographs but he'd

2954
01:53:20,229 --> 01:53:18,159
get more information about being there

2955
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:20,239
on the on the site

2956
01:53:24,790 --> 01:53:22,239
and i do know one time that they were

2957
01:53:26,550 --> 01:53:24,800
shot pretty badly and

2958
01:53:28,709 --> 01:53:26,560
he had to take over credit cards he

2959
01:53:30,149 --> 01:53:28,719
wasn't knowing how to man 50 calibers

2960
01:53:32,709 --> 01:53:30,159
for some reason

2961
01:53:34,709 --> 01:53:32,719
i knew he did that

2962
01:53:36,550 --> 01:53:34,719
he described uh sitting on a box of an

2963
01:53:38,310 --> 01:53:36,560
empty box of ammo and having some

2964
01:53:44,790 --> 01:53:38,320
slugs go between his legs through the

2965
01:53:48,870 --> 01:53:46,709
another time they were they were shot

2966
01:53:50,310 --> 01:53:48,880
down they had two of the engines four

2967
01:53:52,149 --> 01:53:50,320
engines shot out

2968
01:53:53,750 --> 01:53:52,159
the clean and the b-29 doesn't fly very

2969
01:53:56,070 --> 01:53:53,760
well and two and then the third one gave

2970
01:53:57,270 --> 01:53:56,080
up they're going down like a rock they

2971
01:53:59,830 --> 01:53:57,280
didn't have to bail out or do they

2972
01:54:01,669 --> 01:53:59,840
they'd be able to kill them

2973
01:54:02,950 --> 01:54:01,679
so his military career he was basically

2974
01:54:03,990 --> 01:54:02,960
an intelligence mostly for his

2975
01:54:05,669 --> 01:54:04,000
intelligence

2976
01:54:07,270 --> 01:54:05,679
his military career and he would get

2977
01:54:08,950 --> 01:54:07,280
stuck to him as a

2978
01:54:11,270 --> 01:54:08,960
as a pilot to as much as he could you

2979
01:54:12,790 --> 01:54:11,280
know he's not ready to date your time

2980
01:54:14,470 --> 01:54:12,800
we don't know how that works

2981
01:54:16,229 --> 01:54:14,480
uh

2982
01:54:18,550 --> 01:54:16,239
there are many stories about his his

2983
01:54:20,470 --> 01:54:18,560
military career he did not stay for the

2984
01:54:22,790 --> 01:54:20,480
full 20 no he didn't

2985
01:54:24,070 --> 01:54:22,800
he got out as a lieutenant colonel

2986
01:54:26,229 --> 01:54:24,080
oh major

2987
01:54:29,030 --> 01:54:26,239
he was uh given the reserve commission

2988
01:54:30,870 --> 01:54:29,040
lieutenant colonel but he was an active

2989
01:54:32,229 --> 01:54:30,880
duty as a major so he never served as a

2990
01:54:33,430 --> 01:54:32,239
lieutenant colonel he never served as a

2991
01:54:34,870 --> 01:54:33,440
lieutenant

2992
01:54:36,229 --> 01:54:34,880
i know a lot of the reserve papers he

2993
01:54:37,189 --> 01:54:36,239
got to was addressed to lieutenant

2994
01:54:39,830 --> 01:54:37,199
colonel

2995
01:54:42,709 --> 01:54:39,840
jesse marcel but uh he never had the uh

2996
01:54:47,830 --> 01:54:46,390
so he got out he had no military pension

2997
01:54:51,189 --> 01:54:47,840
he got out of the service went back to

2998
01:54:57,430 --> 01:54:54,790
was a tv radio repairman or right owned

2999
01:55:05,430 --> 01:54:57,440
uh the radio television sales service

3000
01:55:09,270 --> 01:55:07,910
and the first time you remember him

3001
01:55:11,109 --> 01:55:09,280
really talking about this you were in

3002
01:55:12,310 --> 01:55:11,119
high school said something while you

3003
01:55:14,709 --> 01:55:12,320
were in high school

3004
01:55:16,229 --> 01:55:14,719
well about that time frame you know uh

3005
01:55:18,149 --> 01:55:16,239
because that

3006
01:55:19,750 --> 01:55:18,159
at that arrow you know flying saucers

3007
01:55:22,390 --> 01:55:19,760
we're in the rage you know you read

3008
01:55:24,390 --> 01:55:22,400
about these reports and the papers and

3009
01:55:26,550 --> 01:55:24,400
the sensational magazines and things

3010
01:55:29,430 --> 01:55:26,560
like that which tend to degrade the

3011
01:55:33,430 --> 01:55:31,669
yeah so as if we need that that sort of

3012
01:55:34,790 --> 01:55:33,440
thing but he was

3013
01:55:36,310 --> 01:55:34,800
for the most part pretty close-looked

3014
01:55:38,790 --> 01:55:36,320
about about this even after he was out

3015
01:55:41,589 --> 01:55:38,800
of the military right it wasn't a

3016
01:55:43,510 --> 01:55:41,599
really daily topic and there was no

3017
01:55:45,270 --> 01:55:43,520
military pension for him to protect or

3018
01:55:46,709 --> 01:55:45,280
no threat of

3019
01:55:48,390 --> 01:55:46,719
the only thing he had for the military

3020
01:55:49,589 --> 01:55:48,400
was uh

3021
01:55:51,589 --> 01:55:49,599
he fell off the roof when he was

3022
01:55:53,030 --> 01:55:51,599
repairing his ham radio antenna in

3023
01:55:55,030 --> 01:55:53,040
roswell

3024
01:55:57,350 --> 01:55:55,040
and he had

3025
01:56:00,149 --> 01:55:57,360
a fracture the oregon elbow

3026
01:56:01,990 --> 01:56:00,159
and i think he had fourteen dollars you

3027
01:56:04,550 --> 01:56:02,000
know for uh disability you know which is

3028
01:56:07,030 --> 01:56:04,560
a very minor disability but now

3029
01:56:10,070 --> 01:56:07,040
that was the only thing

3030
01:56:13,430 --> 01:56:12,149
there was no threat they could hold over

3031
01:56:17,589 --> 01:56:13,440
that if you talked about this we're

3032
01:56:21,669 --> 01:56:19,270
do you remember how long how much time

3033
01:56:23,669 --> 01:56:21,679
he spent on active duty how

3034
01:56:29,830 --> 01:56:23,679
how many years he got in

3035
01:56:33,510 --> 01:56:31,510
and stayed till

3036
01:56:40,550 --> 01:56:33,520
1949

3037
01:56:44,790 --> 01:56:42,950
and there was the story

3038
01:56:46,790 --> 01:56:44,800
that's been published that he wrote the

3039
01:56:48,550 --> 01:56:46,800
speech for crewman

3040
01:56:50,229 --> 01:56:48,560
when the atomic bomb was exploded by the

3041
01:56:52,229 --> 01:56:50,239
soviets

3042
01:56:53,910 --> 01:56:52,239
any truth to that or

3043
01:56:56,550 --> 01:56:53,920
he provided the intelligence information

3044
01:56:59,189 --> 01:56:56,560
for the president

3045
01:57:00,390 --> 01:56:59,199
i have a vague recollection of

3046
01:57:01,910 --> 01:57:00,400
something that nature but i don't know

3047
01:57:03,490 --> 01:57:01,920
that he wrote the speech but i do know

3048
01:57:04,790 --> 01:57:03,500
that he

3049
01:57:08,550 --> 01:57:04,800
[Music]

3050
01:57:10,629 --> 01:57:08,560
was in on preparing something

3051
01:57:12,629 --> 01:57:10,639
gathering information

3052
01:57:14,390 --> 01:57:12,639
he's part of his intelligence right yeah

3053
01:57:16,470 --> 01:57:14,400
but that was not really a subject of

3054
01:57:18,149 --> 01:57:16,480
conversation

3055
01:57:20,390 --> 01:57:18,159
did you ever notice your dad or did your

3056
01:57:22,550 --> 01:57:20,400
dad ever break security

3057
01:57:25,270 --> 01:57:22,560
other than this one time when he brought

3058
01:57:26,709 --> 01:57:25,280
the material home although he really

3059
01:57:28,390 --> 01:57:26,719
wasn't breaking security since it wasn't

3060
01:57:30,149 --> 01:57:28,400
classified yet but did your dad ever

3061
01:57:34,709 --> 01:57:30,159
break security at all that you can

3062
01:57:39,990 --> 01:57:36,950
one other time

3063
01:57:43,669 --> 01:57:41,990
i don't know whether or not

3064
01:57:44,950 --> 01:57:43,679
i guess

3065
01:57:46,229 --> 01:57:44,960
i hate to bring that up though i don't

3066
01:57:48,629 --> 01:57:46,239
know but okay

3067
01:57:50,550 --> 01:57:48,639
but so

3068
01:57:52,390 --> 01:57:50,560
as far as you know your dad really never

3069
01:57:53,910 --> 01:57:52,400
broke security right he never really

3070
01:57:55,669 --> 01:57:53,920
talked to the neighbors

3071
01:57:58,790 --> 01:57:55,679
he never talked to friends about what he

3072
01:58:06,149 --> 01:57:58,800
was he was learning with his job no it

3073
01:58:14,550 --> 01:58:07,430
okay

3074
01:58:18,830 --> 01:58:16,149
i'm just going to ask you some questions

3075
01:58:20,790 --> 01:58:18,840
just to get you started

3076
01:58:22,709 --> 01:58:20,800
okay uh

3077
01:58:25,830 --> 01:58:22,719
vern tell me about

3078
01:58:27,910 --> 01:58:25,840
your relationship with barney barnett uh

3079
01:58:30,070 --> 01:58:27,920
how did how do you know barney

3080
01:58:33,109 --> 01:58:30,080
i first met mr burnett

3081
01:58:35,750 --> 01:58:33,119
i was with the 333rd bomb group in delhi

3082
01:58:37,430 --> 01:58:35,760
texas at that time mr burnett was living

3083
01:58:40,070 --> 01:58:37,440
in mascara new mexico

3084
01:58:42,870 --> 01:58:40,080
i met him in late 1943

3085
01:58:45,589 --> 01:58:42,880
i was on a boundary for this commander

3086
01:58:47,589 --> 01:58:45,599
of downheart texas so you both were in

3087
01:58:50,310 --> 01:58:47,599
the service together oh we were not in

3088
01:58:51,830 --> 01:58:50,320
the spruce together he was a civilian

3089
01:58:53,830 --> 01:58:51,840
working with uh

3090
01:58:56,070 --> 01:58:53,840
civil as a civil engineer

3091
01:58:58,470 --> 01:58:56,080
the state of new mexico

3092
01:59:00,550 --> 01:58:58,480
and uh what kind of relationship did the

3093
01:59:02,790 --> 01:59:00,560
two of you have well bernie didn't have

3094
01:59:04,870 --> 01:59:02,800
any children he'd raised a niece he sort

3095
01:59:06,950 --> 01:59:04,880
of took me under his thumb

3096
01:59:08,790 --> 01:59:06,960
and during the visit he treated me just

3097
01:59:11,109 --> 01:59:08,800
about like a son

3098
01:59:12,550 --> 01:59:11,119
so pretty close relationship real close

3099
01:59:15,189 --> 01:59:12,560
relationship

3100
01:59:16,709 --> 01:59:15,199
uh i understand around 1950 he told you

3101
01:59:18,550 --> 01:59:16,719
a story about something that had

3102
01:59:21,750 --> 01:59:18,560
happened sometime previous can you

3103
01:59:23,030 --> 01:59:21,760
relate that story to us yes mr burnett

3104
01:59:25,270 --> 01:59:23,040
told me that

3105
01:59:27,510 --> 01:59:25,280
he'd and when he was coming back from

3106
01:59:29,430 --> 01:59:27,520
one of his field trips he'd run onto a

3107
01:59:30,790 --> 01:59:29,440
flying sponsor that had

3108
01:59:33,350 --> 01:59:30,800
first opened

3109
01:59:34,390 --> 01:59:33,360
and there were four beings on the ground

3110
01:59:38,149 --> 01:59:34,400
that he

3111
01:59:40,229 --> 01:59:38,159
was surveying this night at about time

3112
01:59:42,550 --> 01:59:40,239
archaeological group from

3113
01:59:43,990 --> 01:59:42,560
the university of pennsylvania towns

3114
01:59:46,629 --> 01:59:44,000
there are about four or five people with

3115
01:59:49,030 --> 01:59:46,639
this group as they were just starting to

3116
01:59:50,790 --> 01:59:49,040
look things over fairly closely

3117
01:59:53,109 --> 01:59:50,800
military moved in and

3118
01:59:53,910 --> 01:59:53,119
give them a briefing to

3119
01:59:56,229 --> 01:59:53,920
not

3120
01:59:58,070 --> 01:59:56,239
say anything about it and to keep quiet

3121
02:00:00,310 --> 01:59:58,080
and it was in the national interest to

3122
02:00:01,510 --> 02:00:00,320
get out of there

3123
02:00:04,390 --> 02:00:01,520
what uh

3124
02:00:06,709 --> 02:00:04,400
what was his feeling about what it was

3125
02:00:09,189 --> 02:00:06,719
that he had experienced

3126
02:00:11,270 --> 02:00:09,199
he had no

3127
02:00:12,950 --> 02:00:11,280
no qualms about what it was

3128
02:00:14,950 --> 02:00:12,960
he said the vehicle from outer space

3129
02:00:17,669 --> 02:00:14,960
wasn't any question

3130
02:00:20,149 --> 02:00:17,679
the beings on there were nothing like

3131
02:00:22,070 --> 02:00:20,159
not exactly like human beings

3132
02:00:23,350 --> 02:00:22,080
similar but not exactly how did he

3133
02:00:24,870 --> 02:00:23,360
describe them

3134
02:00:26,870 --> 02:00:24,880
he described them

3135
02:00:30,229 --> 02:00:26,880
being about three and a half to four

3136
02:00:32,870 --> 02:00:30,239
feet tall very slim in stature

3137
02:00:35,430 --> 02:00:32,880
and with a their heads were hairless

3138
02:00:36,629 --> 02:00:35,440
with no eyebrows no eyelashes no hair

3139
02:00:38,870 --> 02:00:36,639
and sort of a

3140
02:00:42,310 --> 02:00:38,880
pear-shaped head with top head being

3141
02:00:43,669 --> 02:00:42,320
smaller or larger i mean

3142
02:00:47,030 --> 02:00:43,679
any other

3143
02:00:49,109 --> 02:00:47,040
characteristics about their appearance

3144
02:00:50,950 --> 02:00:49,119
only one thing that he mentioned

3145
02:00:55,669 --> 02:00:50,960
is the hands

3146
02:00:57,270 --> 02:00:55,679
were not covered they had four fingers

3147
02:00:59,189 --> 02:00:57,280
how were they dressed

3148
02:01:01,430 --> 02:00:59,199
they were dressed in some type of a type

3149
02:01:03,350 --> 02:01:01,440
fitting suit it looked like

3150
02:01:06,310 --> 02:01:03,360
sort of a metallic but not metal and not

3151
02:01:08,870 --> 02:01:06,320
nylon and it really fit to the body very

3152
02:01:10,870 --> 02:01:08,880
closely tight they were not wearing any

3153
02:01:12,629 --> 02:01:10,880
headpiece at all

3154
02:01:14,709 --> 02:01:12,639
and i don't recall that he said anything

3155
02:01:15,750 --> 02:01:14,719
about what they had on their feet

3156
02:01:17,990 --> 02:01:15,760
were

3157
02:01:19,990 --> 02:01:18,000
all of these beings dead when he found

3158
02:01:21,510 --> 02:01:20,000
them they were all dead in only a short

3159
02:01:24,310 --> 02:01:21,520
distance from the craft

3160
02:01:25,990 --> 02:01:24,320
the craft burst open and they didn't he

3161
02:01:27,350 --> 02:01:26,000
said that they hadn't seen anybody

3162
02:01:29,030 --> 02:01:27,360
inside but they really hadn't had a

3163
02:01:31,270 --> 02:01:29,040
chance to look

3164
02:01:33,750 --> 02:01:31,280
these were all outside the crafting

3165
02:01:35,990 --> 02:01:33,760
quite close to the within not too many

3166
02:01:38,470 --> 02:01:36,000
feet

3167
02:01:40,709 --> 02:01:38,480
how did he describe the craft

3168
02:01:42,790 --> 02:01:40,719
typical for himself

3169
02:01:44,229 --> 02:01:42,800
this shape disc shaped

3170
02:01:46,709 --> 02:01:44,239
and

3171
02:01:48,550 --> 02:01:46,719
a pretty good size not small

3172
02:01:50,629 --> 02:01:48,560
it was uh crafted what could have

3173
02:01:52,070 --> 02:01:50,639
carried quite a few beings and it wasn't

3174
02:01:55,109 --> 02:01:52,080
one of the little

3175
02:01:57,350 --> 02:01:55,119
small discs and the three-quarters place

3176
02:01:58,790 --> 02:01:57,360
it's probably 100 feet

3177
02:02:00,310 --> 02:01:58,800
big

3178
02:02:01,910 --> 02:02:00,320
what did he how did he describe the

3179
02:02:03,109 --> 02:02:01,920
impact site

3180
02:02:04,149 --> 02:02:03,119
if at all

3181
02:02:07,350 --> 02:02:04,159
he said it

3182
02:02:09,589 --> 02:02:07,360
come to rest as sort of on a not a high

3183
02:02:10,310 --> 02:02:09,599
bank or sort of a ridge or

3184
02:02:12,950 --> 02:02:10,320
her

3185
02:02:15,270 --> 02:02:12,960
uh back and it hit against the bank

3186
02:02:18,470 --> 02:02:15,280
had split there

3187
02:02:21,030 --> 02:02:18,480
but otherwise it was intact

3188
02:02:23,350 --> 02:02:21,040
did he describe any other debris or

3189
02:02:27,750 --> 02:02:23,360
wreckage besides there was no according

3190
02:02:32,709 --> 02:02:30,149
what uh did he give any description

3191
02:02:34,390 --> 02:02:32,719
about the archaeology team

3192
02:02:36,390 --> 02:02:34,400
nothing except it was four or five

3193
02:02:38,070 --> 02:02:36,400
people they were

3194
02:02:39,030 --> 02:02:38,080
obviously there for a

3195
02:02:41,910 --> 02:02:39,040
dig

3196
02:02:45,030 --> 02:02:42,950
just come

3197
02:02:47,030 --> 02:02:45,040
upon us just about

3198
02:02:48,790 --> 02:02:47,040
nearly simultaneously just arrived there

3199
02:02:51,750 --> 02:02:48,800
and here they

3200
02:02:53,669 --> 02:02:51,760
uh any names of any of these individuals

3201
02:02:55,109 --> 02:02:53,679
he didn't have any names because the

3202
02:02:57,589 --> 02:02:55,119
short period that they were there and by

3203
02:02:58,870 --> 02:02:57,599
the time the army round them up

3204
02:03:02,470 --> 02:02:58,880
and told him to get out of there i have

3205
02:03:05,430 --> 02:03:02,480
to get briefed what and not to stand son

3206
02:03:07,030 --> 02:03:05,440
he got his pick up and headed back for

3207
02:03:09,270 --> 02:03:07,040
his office

3208
02:03:11,990 --> 02:03:09,280
did he ever tell this story to anybody

3209
02:03:13,430 --> 02:03:12,000
else he went back to his office

3210
02:03:15,990 --> 02:03:13,440
and his boss

3211
02:03:17,750 --> 02:03:16,000
he started to tell him and the boss told

3212
02:03:19,830 --> 02:03:17,760
him barney don't tell me anything about

3213
02:03:21,510 --> 02:03:19,840
it i don't want to hear about it just

3214
02:03:23,910 --> 02:03:21,520
forget it

3215
02:03:25,589 --> 02:03:23,920
he says when i was told that he said

3216
02:03:26,950 --> 02:03:25,599
having told him i've been told not to

3217
02:03:28,790 --> 02:03:26,960
say anything

3218
02:03:31,270 --> 02:03:28,800
he said and i'm not going to have people

3219
02:03:32,149 --> 02:03:31,280
think i'm crazies i never told anybody

3220
02:03:34,870 --> 02:03:32,159
else

3221
02:03:37,510 --> 02:03:34,880
until the time you told me about

3222
02:03:40,149 --> 02:03:37,520
did he ever experience any form of

3223
02:03:43,430 --> 02:03:40,159
harassment from the government

3224
02:03:45,669 --> 02:03:43,440
they were harassing him on income taxes

3225
02:03:48,069 --> 02:03:45,679
and i know that one time i visited down

3226
02:03:49,830 --> 02:03:48,079
there in 1915 he was really nervous this

3227
02:03:50,790 --> 02:03:49,840
was either the second or third time they

3228
02:03:52,149 --> 02:03:50,800
had

3229
02:03:53,750 --> 02:03:52,159
audited him

3230
02:03:55,030 --> 02:03:53,760
i can't understand why they went out at

3231
02:03:56,950 --> 02:03:55,040
him because

3232
02:03:59,669 --> 02:03:56,960
he only he didn't do any outs in

3233
02:04:01,189 --> 02:03:59,679
business he they had all his income from

3234
02:04:03,589 --> 02:04:01,199
his job

3235
02:04:05,189 --> 02:04:03,599
what kind of man was barney barnett

3236
02:04:07,189 --> 02:04:05,199
ronnie barnett was

3237
02:04:09,270 --> 02:04:07,199
a real private individual

3238
02:04:11,669 --> 02:04:09,280
he didn't smoke he didn't drink his

3239
02:04:14,149 --> 02:04:11,679
family and himself were very private he

3240
02:04:15,589 --> 02:04:14,159
associated people but not too much on a

3241
02:04:17,990 --> 02:04:15,599
social basis

3242
02:04:18,950 --> 02:04:18,000
but he was very reliable professional

3243
02:04:21,109 --> 02:04:18,960
man

3244
02:04:24,149 --> 02:04:21,119
lived a lot in the outdoors

3245
02:04:26,069 --> 02:04:24,159
and knew the outdoors

3246
02:04:28,550 --> 02:04:26,079
collected arrowheads

3247
02:04:31,990 --> 02:04:28,560
and he and i went on arrowhead hunts

3248
02:04:34,069 --> 02:04:32,000
gone on pottery digs ourselves

3249
02:04:36,470 --> 02:04:34,079
he showed me how to rattlesnakes

3250
02:04:38,550 --> 02:04:36,480
operated how they struck him

3251
02:04:39,990 --> 02:04:38,560
spotted we had a lot of time together

3252
02:04:42,149 --> 02:04:40,000
because way out there in new mexico when

3253
02:04:43,510 --> 02:04:42,159
you're driving around there's

3254
02:04:45,990 --> 02:04:43,520
miles and miles and miles there's

3255
02:04:48,229 --> 02:04:46,000
nothing so we had a lot of time to talk

3256
02:04:50,229 --> 02:04:48,239
but in all the time i knew barney he

3257
02:04:52,550 --> 02:04:50,239
never told me a story

3258
02:04:54,709 --> 02:04:52,560
i was never told any story of any about

3259
02:04:56,870 --> 02:04:54,719
anything so i believe anything that he

3260
02:04:58,310 --> 02:04:56,880
would say was reliable

3261
02:05:01,270 --> 02:04:58,320
i could have had a lot more information

3262
02:05:02,470 --> 02:05:01,280
but i didn't pump him for information

3263
02:05:04,390 --> 02:05:02,480
at that time

3264
02:05:07,030 --> 02:05:04,400
i was raising a family

3265
02:05:08,149 --> 02:05:07,040
and busy in the military and teen things

3266
02:05:09,669 --> 02:05:08,159
to do

3267
02:05:12,629 --> 02:05:09,679
and i could have got a lot more

3268
02:05:14,310 --> 02:05:12,639
information from him i'm sure

3269
02:05:15,910 --> 02:05:14,320
but

3270
02:05:16,950 --> 02:05:15,920
it was one of those things that you

3271
02:05:19,430 --> 02:05:16,960
think back

3272
02:05:21,430 --> 02:05:19,440
we hadn't had anybody in outer space we

3273
02:05:23,430 --> 02:05:21,440
hadn't had anybody in the moon

3274
02:05:25,189 --> 02:05:23,440
if it had been

3275
02:05:27,030 --> 02:05:25,199
if we hadn't progressed this sort of

3276
02:05:27,910 --> 02:05:27,040
thing i might have been a little bit

3277
02:05:30,470 --> 02:05:27,920
more

3278
02:05:32,629 --> 02:05:30,480
interested in details

3279
02:05:35,189 --> 02:05:32,639
when he when he related this account

3280
02:05:37,270 --> 02:05:35,199
what did you think about the story i

3281
02:05:39,430 --> 02:05:37,280
know it's about knowing his reliability

3282
02:05:41,030 --> 02:05:39,440
had no doubts but it was real

3283
02:05:44,390 --> 02:05:41,040
and of course he said that he was born

3284
02:05:45,270 --> 02:05:44,400
to secrecy i was still in the air force

3285
02:05:46,830 --> 02:05:45,280
so

3286
02:05:50,229 --> 02:05:46,840
i didn't go around blobbing this to

3287
02:05:51,990 --> 02:05:50,239
everybody matter of fact

3288
02:05:53,189 --> 02:05:52,000
i had no reason to really bring it up to

3289
02:05:55,350 --> 02:05:53,199
anybody

3290
02:05:57,189 --> 02:05:55,360
the first time was brought up is when

3291
02:05:59,350 --> 02:05:57,199
when the doctor

3292
02:06:03,030 --> 02:05:59,360
friedenberg was in bemidji

3293
02:06:04,709 --> 02:06:03,040
he gave a lecture on ufos had gone

3294
02:06:07,510 --> 02:06:04,719
and i listened to this

3295
02:06:10,870 --> 02:06:09,350
i wonder if i should relate this to him

3296
02:06:12,790 --> 02:06:10,880
they're doing the study and stuff might

3297
02:06:14,229 --> 02:06:12,800
be important to his studies

3298
02:06:16,229 --> 02:06:14,239
so as a matter of fact i thought about

3299
02:06:18,709 --> 02:06:16,239
it and then i left the out of turn and

3300
02:06:20,790 --> 02:06:18,719
it was cold out it was late

3301
02:06:23,990 --> 02:06:20,800
i walked about a half a box from there

3302
02:06:25,910 --> 02:06:24,000
without saying anything i thought well

3303
02:06:27,350 --> 02:06:25,920
maybe it's a good policy to

3304
02:06:28,790 --> 02:06:27,360
come back and tell them

3305
02:06:31,109 --> 02:06:28,800
you know i didn't feel comfortable not

3306
02:06:32,310 --> 02:06:31,119
doing it so then i walked back and

3307
02:06:35,109 --> 02:06:32,320
talked to him

3308
02:06:36,709 --> 02:06:35,119
and a few days later this mr moore was

3309
02:06:38,790 --> 02:06:36,719
near and he came over to my house and

3310
02:06:40,229 --> 02:06:38,800
interviewed me about the details that i

3311
02:06:43,030 --> 02:06:40,239
had

3312
02:06:45,589 --> 02:06:43,040
have you experienced any repercussions

3313
02:06:47,589 --> 02:06:45,599
from having shared this none

3314
02:06:50,790 --> 02:06:47,599
i haven't had anybody harass me

3315
02:06:54,709 --> 02:06:52,709
mysteries i've had nothing but good

3316
02:06:56,629 --> 02:06:54,719
comments most people believe these

3317
02:06:59,589 --> 02:06:56,639
actually exist

3318
02:07:00,950 --> 02:06:59,599
and uh i don't really believe that i've

3319
02:07:02,550 --> 02:07:00,960
had one man

3320
02:07:04,470 --> 02:07:02,560
however they intentionally didn't give

3321
02:07:06,310 --> 02:07:04,480
your address but i had calls from every

3322
02:07:08,709 --> 02:07:06,320
plane every province and canada except

3323
02:07:10,069 --> 02:07:08,719
eastern ones from florida

3324
02:07:11,510 --> 02:07:10,079
texas

3325
02:07:14,629 --> 02:07:11,520
and the amount of people that seen this

3326
02:07:17,750 --> 02:07:15,910
so you don't have any regrets about

3327
02:07:18,550 --> 02:07:17,760
having divorces i have no regrets about

3328
02:07:19,910 --> 02:07:18,560
it

3329
02:07:21,990 --> 02:07:19,920
as a matter of fact

3330
02:07:23,830 --> 02:07:22,000
i could tell the same story a thousand

3331
02:07:24,790 --> 02:07:23,840
times without changing it

3332
02:07:27,109 --> 02:07:24,800
because

3333
02:07:29,350 --> 02:07:27,119
i know it to be actual facts

3334
02:07:31,589 --> 02:07:29,360
i'm not about to alter anything

3335
02:07:33,669 --> 02:07:31,599
and i wouldn't accept one penny or one

3336
02:07:35,830 --> 02:07:33,679
dime to make any statement

3337
02:07:37,910 --> 02:07:35,840
because that would ruin the validity of

3338
02:07:39,350 --> 02:07:37,920
what mr president in respect to him i

3339
02:07:41,750 --> 02:07:39,360
wouldn't do it

3340
02:07:43,189 --> 02:07:41,760
as a former military man

3341
02:07:44,149 --> 02:07:43,199
what what do you think our government

3342
02:07:47,189 --> 02:07:44,159
should do

3343
02:07:49,189 --> 02:07:47,199
now that this story is out

3344
02:07:51,990 --> 02:07:49,199
i can't see any reason why whatever

3345
02:07:53,830 --> 02:07:52,000
information he had was not released

3346
02:07:55,350 --> 02:07:53,840
i think any information for documents

3347
02:07:56,870 --> 02:07:55,360
should be released

3348
02:07:59,350 --> 02:07:56,880
because most of the public believes they

3349
02:08:01,430 --> 02:07:59,360
exist anyhow and i think the population

3350
02:08:02,470 --> 02:08:01,440
now is better prepared to accept this

3351
02:08:04,470 --> 02:08:02,480
thing

3352
02:08:06,790 --> 02:08:04,480
than they would have been in 1947 right

3353
02:08:09,990 --> 02:08:06,800
after world war ii but probably reasons

3354
02:08:13,669 --> 02:08:10,000
why they didn't want it released

3355
02:08:15,589 --> 02:08:13,679
i can't see any reason for that release

3356
02:08:17,750 --> 02:08:15,599
okay anything that we've

3357
02:08:19,189 --> 02:08:17,760
not covered that you want to

3358
02:08:20,310 --> 02:08:19,199
talk about

3359
02:08:22,470 --> 02:08:20,320
well

3360
02:08:23,750 --> 02:08:22,480
the only time that i had any occasion to

3361
02:08:26,790 --> 02:08:23,760
possibly see

3362
02:08:28,629 --> 02:08:26,800
a flying saucer in 1940

3363
02:08:31,669 --> 02:08:28,639
we'd move was with the 19th or the

3364
02:08:34,310 --> 02:08:31,679
seventh bomb group 11 bomb squad we'd

3365
02:08:36,870 --> 02:08:34,320
moved off the coast because the

3366
02:08:38,470 --> 02:08:36,880
problems with an eminent war so we move

3367
02:08:39,910 --> 02:08:38,480
into small lake city

3368
02:08:41,350 --> 02:08:39,920
and we're working out of the municipal

3369
02:08:43,350 --> 02:08:41,360
airport out there

3370
02:08:44,950 --> 02:08:43,360
and just about it was between 12 and 1

3371
02:08:47,350 --> 02:08:44,960
o'clock

3372
02:08:48,229 --> 02:08:47,360
there was a just like object that come

3373
02:08:49,830 --> 02:08:48,239
over

3374
02:08:51,830 --> 02:08:49,840
salt lake city had come from the east

3375
02:08:53,589 --> 02:08:51,840
over the wasatch mountains in the

3376
02:08:55,350 --> 02:08:53,599
daytime it looked like the moon does if

3377
02:08:57,030 --> 02:08:55,360
you see it in the daytime

3378
02:08:59,270 --> 02:08:57,040
and there was two pilots and i knew out

3379
02:09:00,629 --> 02:08:59,280
there i can't recall our names

3380
02:09:03,430 --> 02:09:00,639
and myself

3381
02:09:04,870 --> 02:09:03,440
and we run for b17 and we immediately

3382
02:09:07,270 --> 02:09:04,880
started didn't

3383
02:09:09,109 --> 02:09:07,280
uh run the prep projection in the rooms

3384
02:09:11,270 --> 02:09:09,119
taxi right out to the runway and took

3385
02:09:12,950 --> 02:09:11,280
off and we chased this

3386
02:09:15,270 --> 02:09:12,960
i mean there was no hope it was just

3387
02:09:17,270 --> 02:09:15,280
distances and it could not possibly been

3388
02:09:20,069 --> 02:09:17,280
another airplane or balloon because the

3389
02:09:21,669 --> 02:09:20,079
b17 was about as fast a thing as it was

3390
02:09:23,510 --> 02:09:21,679
in the market

3391
02:09:25,109 --> 02:09:23,520
it come over from the east right

3392
02:09:26,310 --> 02:09:25,119
directly over the

3393
02:09:28,709 --> 02:09:26,320
airfield

3394
02:09:31,510 --> 02:09:28,719
and then it went west and when we took

3395
02:09:33,990 --> 02:09:31,520
off then it just about went at a

3396
02:09:35,830 --> 02:09:34,000
oh a real steep angle going to the

3397
02:09:37,830 --> 02:09:35,840
northwest went up it kept getting

3398
02:09:40,069 --> 02:09:37,840
smaller and smaller until it was just

3399
02:09:41,750 --> 02:09:40,079
just like a little dot

3400
02:09:43,669 --> 02:09:41,760
nothing that i know of could possibly

3401
02:09:47,669 --> 02:09:43,679
climb that fast

3402
02:09:51,510 --> 02:09:47,679
this was one year 1940

3403
02:09:53,830 --> 02:09:51,520
and because one overseas in 1941

3404
02:09:55,109 --> 02:09:53,840
it was in hawaii when first december

3405
02:09:56,950 --> 02:09:55,119
1940

3406
02:09:59,589 --> 02:09:56,960
i was quite familiar with airplanes that

3407
02:10:01,830 --> 02:09:59,599
always had an interest in aviation and

3408
02:10:04,149 --> 02:10:01,840
that's i went into the airport

3409
02:10:06,229 --> 02:10:04,159
so i have an idea what they would do and

3410
02:10:10,709 --> 02:10:06,239
could recognize the difference between

3411
02:10:16,870 --> 02:10:12,470
thank you very much i appreciate all

3412
02:10:19,510 --> 02:10:16,880
your time well it works good but

3413
02:10:20,790 --> 02:10:19,520
it's basically what they were pretty

3414
02:10:22,310 --> 02:10:20,800
pretty

3415
02:10:25,270 --> 02:10:22,320
accurate in you know trying to

3416
02:10:27,189 --> 02:10:25,280
reconstruct and they did film about

3417
02:10:29,030 --> 02:10:27,199
20 30 40 minutes

3418
02:10:32,069 --> 02:10:29,040
but they only use a portion and they

3419
02:10:34,390 --> 02:10:32,079
reconstruct this other rest

3420
02:10:35,510 --> 02:10:34,400
did you

3421
02:10:36,870 --> 02:10:35,520
you were satisfied then with the

3422
02:10:38,149 --> 02:10:36,880
dramatization

3423
02:10:40,229 --> 02:10:38,159
part of it

3424
02:10:42,390 --> 02:10:40,239
pretty much but there was some details

3425
02:10:44,390 --> 02:10:42,400
that would have changed and of course it

3426
02:10:47,350 --> 02:10:44,400
was impossible for them to

3427
02:10:53,189 --> 02:10:47,360
know every detail if i had been on their

3428
02:10:53,199 --> 02:10:56,149
yeah wearing the path

3429
02:11:00,069 --> 02:10:58,470
well in another thing he had glasses

3430
02:11:02,629 --> 02:11:00,079
because of that when he opened his next

3431
02:11:04,790 --> 02:11:02,639
mountain the venom come up for his asses

3432
02:11:06,709 --> 02:11:04,800
that's how i vividly remember playing i

3433
02:11:08,390 --> 02:11:06,719
can picture in my mind the venom is

3434
02:11:11,189 --> 02:11:08,400
still streaming down his face on these

3435
02:11:12,390 --> 02:11:11,199
glasses they that the glass is muslim

3436
02:11:14,390 --> 02:11:12,400
you know we're just kind of a white

3437
02:11:17,589 --> 02:11:14,400
former generally

3438
02:11:19,589 --> 02:11:17,599
good thing he wore glasses i guess huh

3439
02:11:21,750 --> 02:11:19,599
but that individual he was an

3440
02:11:23,109 --> 02:11:21,760
endorsement he knew the southwest he

3441
02:11:24,870 --> 02:11:23,119
knew the outdoors

3442
02:11:27,270 --> 02:11:24,880
and he was a

3443
02:11:29,270 --> 02:11:27,280
type of individual that

3444
02:11:31,109 --> 02:11:29,280
didn't exaggerate on anything we did a

3445
02:11:33,189 --> 02:11:31,119
lot of things outdoors and i know that

3446
02:11:35,589 --> 02:11:33,199
new mexico because i know what a vast

3447
02:11:37,030 --> 02:11:35,599
uninhabited area that place is

3448
02:11:38,550 --> 02:11:37,040
that's why the group of new mexico's

3449
02:11:40,629 --> 02:11:38,560
kind of laughing about some of the

3450
02:11:41,750 --> 02:11:40,639
things that was

3451
02:11:43,910 --> 02:11:41,760
because they know

3452
02:11:46,149 --> 02:11:43,920
they know exactly that i've been through

3453
02:11:48,149 --> 02:11:46,159
a good first first and then lived there

3454
02:11:49,270 --> 02:11:48,159
i lived in clinton new mexico one time

3455
02:11:50,870 --> 02:11:49,280
uh-huh

3456
02:11:54,310 --> 02:11:50,880
why are you living now

3457
02:11:58,229 --> 02:11:56,470
i put in 21 years the united states air

3458
02:12:00,629 --> 02:11:58,239
force retired from them

3459
02:12:02,550 --> 02:12:00,639
put in 30 years with a va in just about

3460
02:12:03,910 --> 02:12:02,560
30 years so

3461
02:12:05,510 --> 02:12:03,920
i like working

3462
02:12:08,069 --> 02:12:05,520
and i'm interested in things when i

3463
02:12:10,149 --> 02:12:08,079
visit foreign countries other places i

3464
02:12:11,990 --> 02:12:10,159
see everything industries

3465
02:12:14,310 --> 02:12:12,000
what the people are doing they make a

3466
02:12:16,470 --> 02:12:14,320
living you know i'm not one contented

3467
02:12:18,550 --> 02:12:16,480
just to sit back and go and lay in the

3468
02:12:20,390 --> 02:12:18,560
sun somewhere or go to the beach

3469
02:12:22,870 --> 02:12:20,400
whatever yeah

3470
02:12:24,470 --> 02:12:22,880
i just like to get in the mainstream i'm

3471
02:12:26,950 --> 02:12:24,480
interested what's going on in the world

3472
02:12:29,189 --> 02:12:26,960
and out of this world too

3473
02:12:32,149 --> 02:12:29,199
obviously or could i ask you to just

3474
02:12:36,149 --> 02:12:32,159
sign this form for me

3475
02:12:38,149 --> 02:12:36,159
well the officers all left and uh we we

3476
02:12:40,790 --> 02:12:38,159
have some minor men

3477
02:12:43,669 --> 02:12:40,800
mr porter what were you doing in uh

3478
02:12:45,430 --> 02:12:43,679
roswell new mexico in july of 1947. i

3479
02:12:48,149 --> 02:12:45,440
was flagged remember

3480
02:12:51,669 --> 02:12:48,159
uh at the army air base right and what

3481
02:12:53,510 --> 02:12:51,679
was your rank as a master surgeon

3482
02:12:55,189 --> 02:12:53,520
and uh what would normally be your

3483
02:12:57,430 --> 02:12:55,199
duties as a

3484
02:12:58,950 --> 02:12:57,440
flight crew member as a flight engineer

3485
02:13:00,709 --> 02:12:58,960
engineer

3486
02:13:02,550 --> 02:13:00,719
and what's what sort of normal

3487
02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:02,560
activities would you engage in well it

3488
02:13:07,030 --> 02:13:06,239
took care of the engines in flight well

3489
02:13:14,149 --> 02:13:07,040
and

3490
02:13:16,629 --> 02:13:14,159
doing this right

3491
02:13:20,870 --> 02:13:16,639
what craft did you usually fly

3492
02:13:23,669 --> 02:13:20,880
as a b-29 exclusively yeah okay

3493
02:13:24,470 --> 02:13:23,679
all right uh i understand that something

3494
02:13:27,350 --> 02:13:24,480
uh

3495
02:13:30,149 --> 02:13:27,360
rather unusual happened in july of 1947

3496
02:13:32,069 --> 02:13:30,159
at the base and you were involved

3497
02:13:34,069 --> 02:13:32,079
what happened that day that you recall

3498
02:13:36,470 --> 02:13:34,079
well they we flew the

3499
02:13:38,950 --> 02:13:36,480
these pieces they told us it was a parts

3500
02:13:40,629 --> 02:13:38,960
of black salsa and we flew from roswell

3501
02:13:43,270 --> 02:13:40,639
to fort worth

3502
02:13:45,510 --> 02:13:43,280
and we started out they told us big

3503
02:13:48,069 --> 02:13:45,520
going to wright patterson

3504
02:13:50,629 --> 02:13:48,079
in ohio

3505
02:13:53,109 --> 02:13:50,639
and we got to fort worth and they

3506
02:13:55,910 --> 02:13:53,119
transferred them to b25

3507
02:13:57,750 --> 02:13:55,920
and took them to wright patterson

3508
02:13:59,830 --> 02:13:57,760
and what did you do then then when you

3509
02:14:01,990 --> 02:13:59,840
returned her hospital okay

3510
02:14:04,229 --> 02:14:02,000
who who do you recall was on board that

3511
02:14:06,390 --> 02:14:04,239
b-29 when you left roswell

3512
02:14:07,750 --> 02:14:06,400
uh colonel jennings was

3513
02:14:12,550 --> 02:14:07,760
on board and

3514
02:14:15,589 --> 02:14:12,560
colonel barron's law major uh

3515
02:14:19,830 --> 02:14:15,599
wunderlich and uh

3516
02:14:21,750 --> 02:14:19,840
major marcel was the ones up front okay

3517
02:14:23,669 --> 02:14:21,760
and and who was it who told you that

3518
02:14:25,750 --> 02:14:23,679
these these were pieces of a flying

3519
02:14:28,229 --> 02:14:25,760
saucer i don't remember just

3520
02:14:30,709 --> 02:14:28,239
who it was but it must have been captain

3521
02:14:32,390 --> 02:14:30,719
anderson

3522
02:14:34,310 --> 02:14:32,400
uh what did you think when you heard

3523
02:14:36,629 --> 02:14:34,320
that well i was

3524
02:14:38,950 --> 02:14:36,639
at first i'd heard if

3525
02:14:41,350 --> 02:14:38,960
not your flying saucer so it didn't

3526
02:14:43,350 --> 02:14:41,360
really mean a whole lot

3527
02:14:45,270 --> 02:14:43,360
what uh what was it that was actually

3528
02:14:48,629 --> 02:14:45,280
loaded on board that you saw

3529
02:14:50,069 --> 02:14:48,639
well we had uh it's just packages and

3530
02:14:52,550 --> 02:14:50,079
wrapping paper

3531
02:14:54,950 --> 02:14:52,560
and one of them was triangle shaped

3532
02:14:56,629 --> 02:14:54,960
about two and a half feet

3533
02:14:57,990 --> 02:14:56,639
across

3534
02:15:00,709 --> 02:14:58,000
the bottom

3535
02:15:03,430 --> 02:15:00,719
and the rest were in smaller packages

3536
02:15:05,589 --> 02:15:03,440
about the shoebox size

3537
02:15:08,709 --> 02:15:05,599
the triangle shape is that an unusual

3538
02:15:11,990 --> 02:15:08,719
kind of packaging it seemed to be

3539
02:15:14,069 --> 02:15:12,000
and uh and this was uh brown paper on

3540
02:15:16,390 --> 02:15:14,079
the outside right with tape

3541
02:15:18,149 --> 02:15:16,400
and do you have did you actually load

3542
02:15:19,990 --> 02:15:18,159
this stuff

3543
02:15:21,030 --> 02:15:20,000
what was your feeling when you

3544
02:15:23,750 --> 02:15:21,040
just like

3545
02:15:25,830 --> 02:15:23,760
picked up an empty package is that right

3546
02:15:28,470 --> 02:15:25,840
very light

3547
02:15:29,990 --> 02:15:28,480
uh from from feeling the package did you

3548
02:15:32,069 --> 02:15:30,000
have a sense of what it was that was

3549
02:15:34,790 --> 02:15:32,079
underneath the brown paper wrapper not

3550
02:15:38,229 --> 02:15:37,350
just just brown paper and tape but very

3551
02:15:40,790 --> 02:15:38,239
light

3552
02:15:43,430 --> 02:15:40,800
and uh approximately how much of this

3553
02:15:46,229 --> 02:15:43,440
stuff did you bring on to the v29 was

3554
02:15:47,430 --> 02:15:46,239
the one triangle shaped package in about

3555
02:15:50,390 --> 02:15:47,440
three

3556
02:15:53,750 --> 02:15:50,400
shoebox size packages so it wasn't not

3557
02:15:55,510 --> 02:15:53,760
very much okay uh if uh

3558
02:15:56,790 --> 02:15:55,520
oh i don't know if we were to

3559
02:16:01,030 --> 02:15:56,800
can you give me an idea about what the

3560
02:16:03,350 --> 02:16:01,040
volume of all this would be well it's

3561
02:16:06,390 --> 02:16:03,360
did you put it into say a back seat of a

3562
02:16:07,830 --> 02:16:06,400
car or the trunk of a car yes it's just

3563
02:16:10,149 --> 02:16:07,840
small packages

3564
02:16:11,910 --> 02:16:10,159
and and it took a b-29 it wasn't

3565
02:16:13,430 --> 02:16:11,920
necessary to take a while that's that

3566
02:16:15,669 --> 02:16:13,440
was the transportation i guess that's

3567
02:16:18,629 --> 02:16:15,679
all you had right okay

3568
02:16:21,030 --> 02:16:18,639
and uh what did what did

3569
02:16:22,310 --> 02:16:21,040
the fellas talk about on the way to

3570
02:16:29,189 --> 02:16:22,320
uh

3571
02:16:32,469 --> 02:16:30,790
they didn't talk back and forth very

3572
02:16:33,190 --> 02:16:32,479
much

3573
02:16:35,349 --> 02:16:33,200
and

3574
02:16:37,110 --> 02:16:35,359
nothing about it yeah

3575
02:16:39,429 --> 02:16:37,120
would that would that be unusual was

3576
02:16:40,870 --> 02:16:39,439
there normally uh a lot of conversation

3577
02:16:44,950 --> 02:16:40,880
between them

3578
02:16:48,389 --> 02:16:46,309
how was that why do you say it wasn't

3579
02:16:50,790 --> 02:16:48,399
great well we had officers from other

3580
02:16:52,709 --> 02:16:50,800
squadrons

3581
02:16:53,669 --> 02:16:52,719
and

3582
02:16:58,549 --> 02:16:53,679
the

3583
02:17:01,270 --> 02:16:58,559
commander

3584
02:17:03,110 --> 02:17:01,280
and uh major

3585
02:17:05,429 --> 02:17:03,120
uh marcelo's

3586
02:17:09,349 --> 02:17:05,439
intelligence officer would it be unusual

3587
02:17:13,030 --> 02:17:11,349
and you arrived in fort worth at

3588
02:17:15,429 --> 02:17:13,040
carswell right

3589
02:17:19,669 --> 02:17:15,439
and what uh what were your what happened

3590
02:17:21,910 --> 02:17:19,679
then well we parked on the front

3591
02:17:22,950 --> 02:17:21,920
line flight line

3592
02:17:25,589 --> 02:17:22,960
and

3593
02:17:28,389 --> 02:17:25,599
uh colonel jennings told us to finish we

3594
02:17:30,549 --> 02:17:28,399
had some spark plugs to change and he

3595
02:17:33,830 --> 02:17:30,559
said as soon as we got our maintenance

3596
02:17:36,950 --> 02:17:33,840
done and the gardens posted we go eat

3597
02:17:39,030 --> 02:17:36,960
lunch and come back then

3598
02:17:42,790 --> 02:17:39,040
was there anything unusual about your

3599
02:17:44,790 --> 02:17:42,800
arrival at fort worth no

3600
02:17:46,709 --> 02:17:44,800
so you you did your maintenance then you

3601
02:17:48,629 --> 02:17:46,719
went out to lunch and what happened

3602
02:17:51,830 --> 02:17:48,639
after you got back we came back and then

3603
02:17:52,950 --> 02:17:51,840
moved the aircraft to the back flat man

3604
02:17:55,030 --> 02:17:52,960
and

3605
02:17:57,509 --> 02:17:55,040
told us that they transferred the

3606
02:17:59,429 --> 02:17:57,519
material to a b-25 to go into

3607
02:18:01,910 --> 02:17:59,439
right-patterson

3608
02:18:03,509 --> 02:18:01,920
and that it was a weather balloon and

3609
02:18:04,870 --> 02:18:03,519
that was it

3610
02:18:06,070 --> 02:18:04,880
what did you think when you heard that

3611
02:18:07,910 --> 02:18:06,080
well i just

3612
02:18:09,429 --> 02:18:07,920
thought this is what it was you accepted

3613
02:18:12,150 --> 02:18:09,439
what you would hope

3614
02:18:13,750 --> 02:18:12,160
and then you flew back to roswell right

3615
02:18:16,230 --> 02:18:13,760
was there any conversation on the way

3616
02:18:19,190 --> 02:18:16,240
back about this

3617
02:18:21,669 --> 02:18:19,200
how about after after this episode was

3618
02:18:23,910 --> 02:18:21,679
there any more

3619
02:18:26,230 --> 02:18:23,920
was it something that just wasn't talked

3620
02:18:28,230 --> 02:18:26,240
about or did you feel that

3621
02:18:32,070 --> 02:18:28,240
what we just thought the weather was on

3622
02:18:34,469 --> 02:18:32,080
that was it that was it okay

3623
02:18:36,950 --> 02:18:34,479
did you have uh

3624
02:18:38,709 --> 02:18:36,960
did you have when did when did you first

3625
02:18:43,190 --> 02:18:38,719
share or when were you asked about your

3626
02:18:48,309 --> 02:18:46,870
stanford called me in 1979

3627
02:18:51,190 --> 02:18:48,319
and

3628
02:18:53,509 --> 02:18:51,200
what did you did you learn anything more

3629
02:18:57,830 --> 02:18:53,519
about this than you had known before

3630
02:19:02,389 --> 02:19:00,549
does it surprise you to know that

3631
02:19:04,309 --> 02:19:02,399
jesse marcel at least said that it was

3632
02:19:05,509 --> 02:19:04,319
not a weather balloon

3633
02:19:09,270 --> 02:19:05,519
well

3634
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:14,709
i i never thought much about that um

3635
02:19:17,669 --> 02:19:16,389
after all these years what do you think

3636
02:19:22,309 --> 02:19:17,679
it was

3637
02:19:26,150 --> 02:19:22,319
pretty sure of that right okay

3638
02:19:29,990 --> 02:19:27,589
um

3639
02:19:32,830 --> 02:19:30,000
you're uh you're out of the service yes

3640
02:19:36,389 --> 02:19:32,840
uh for a while now yes uh

3641
02:19:39,270 --> 02:19:36,399
26 27 years i guess

3642
02:19:41,589 --> 02:19:39,280
uh are you are you getting a pension yes

3643
02:19:43,830 --> 02:19:41,599
uh have you gotten any kind of

3644
02:19:46,629 --> 02:19:43,840
harassment or anything none

3645
02:19:48,389 --> 02:19:46,639
for having talked about this no

3646
02:19:51,429 --> 02:19:48,399
do you have any regrets about having

3647
02:19:53,590 --> 02:19:52,790
what do you think the government should

3648
02:19:56,309 --> 02:19:53,600
do

3649
02:19:57,270 --> 02:19:56,319
now about all this

3650
02:20:00,550 --> 02:19:57,280
well

3651
02:20:03,510 --> 02:20:00,560
i think they should let people know what

3652
02:20:05,110 --> 02:20:03,520
what's going on you'd like to know yes

3653
02:20:07,190 --> 02:20:05,120
yes

3654
02:20:08,630 --> 02:20:07,200
so

3655
02:20:10,389 --> 02:20:08,640
is there anything that we haven't talked

3656
02:20:12,309 --> 02:20:10,399
about that you'd like to say mr porter

3657
02:20:14,469 --> 02:20:12,319
no

3658
02:20:15,349 --> 02:20:14,479
as long as we got it all straight

3659
02:20:18,469 --> 02:20:15,359
okay

3660
02:20:20,150 --> 02:20:18,479
all right thank you very much

3661
02:20:21,590 --> 02:20:20,160
mr porter can i

3662
02:20:23,270 --> 02:20:21,600
say a little bit about yourself where

3663
02:20:26,309 --> 02:20:23,280
are you living now and what's been your

3664
02:20:28,230 --> 02:20:26,319
profession over the past few years well

3665
02:20:30,550 --> 02:20:28,240
at present um

3666
02:20:33,110 --> 02:20:30,560
i and my wife reside in southern

3667
02:20:36,309 --> 02:20:33,120
california in a small community

3668
02:20:40,150 --> 02:20:36,319
called spring valley it's uh

3669
02:20:42,469 --> 02:20:40,160
in the neighborhood of san diego

3670
02:20:44,630 --> 02:20:42,479
i think for our purposes that's close

3671
02:20:45,590 --> 02:20:44,640
enough

3672
02:20:47,590 --> 02:20:45,600
and

3673
02:20:51,990 --> 02:20:47,600
i practiced as a dentist

3674
02:20:56,469 --> 02:20:55,030
from about 1952

3675
02:20:58,630 --> 02:20:56,479
after my

3676
02:20:59,910 --> 02:20:58,640
release from active duty after following

3677
02:21:03,270 --> 02:20:59,920
a korean

3678
02:21:05,270 --> 02:21:03,280
police action i think that's correctly

3679
02:21:06,950 --> 02:21:05,280
noted right

3680
02:21:08,309 --> 02:21:06,960
and

3681
02:21:09,490 --> 02:21:08,319
i met

3682
02:21:10,870 --> 02:21:09,500
pappy henderson

3683
02:21:14,309 --> 02:21:10,880
[Music]

3684
02:21:17,309 --> 02:21:14,319
in the early mid 60s the best of my

3685
02:21:20,150 --> 02:21:17,319
recollection in maybe

3686
02:21:21,750 --> 02:21:20,160
1962 or 63.

3687
02:21:24,469 --> 02:21:21,760
how did you happen to meet him or know

3688
02:21:27,910 --> 02:21:24,479
him well i was

3689
02:21:33,670 --> 02:21:27,920
introduced to him by a mutual friend

3690
02:21:37,830 --> 02:21:35,110
we were

3691
02:21:39,990 --> 02:21:37,840
of course one of my

3692
02:21:42,389 --> 02:21:40,000
other locations other than dentistry has

3693
02:21:44,150 --> 02:21:42,399
been a practice of

3694
02:21:45,670 --> 02:21:44,160
of studying

3695
02:21:47,750 --> 02:21:45,680
metallurgy

3696
02:21:50,790 --> 02:21:47,760
and

3697
02:21:52,870 --> 02:21:50,800
i think that's probably what got pappy

3698
02:21:56,150 --> 02:21:52,880
and i together

3699
02:21:58,389 --> 02:21:56,160
and as the years went along

3700
02:22:00,630 --> 02:21:58,399
two other

3701
02:22:01,670 --> 02:22:00,640
ventures i wound up actually joining one

3702
02:22:03,670 --> 02:22:01,680
of his

3703
02:22:05,830 --> 02:22:03,680
because it really proved to be

3704
02:22:11,270 --> 02:22:05,840
interesting and i described that fully

3705
02:22:13,110 --> 02:22:12,050
i don't know

3706
02:22:15,510 --> 02:22:13,120
[Music]

3707
02:22:17,830 --> 02:22:15,520
what else to say

3708
02:22:20,830 --> 02:22:17,840
we gained a great deal of respect for

3709
02:22:28,389 --> 02:22:24,469
and i trusted

3710
02:22:29,429 --> 02:22:28,399
his judgment as he did mine i guess

3711
02:22:31,510 --> 02:22:29,439
just

3712
02:22:32,630 --> 02:22:31,520
was a very nice relationship that we

3713
02:22:33,429 --> 02:22:32,640
developed

3714
02:22:35,190 --> 02:22:33,439
and

3715
02:22:37,110 --> 02:22:35,200
when did he tell you about something

3716
02:22:39,190 --> 02:22:37,120
that occurred that was very unusual in

3717
02:22:43,190 --> 02:22:39,200
1947

3718
02:22:45,590 --> 02:22:43,200
well it was as near as i am able to tell

3719
02:22:47,030 --> 02:22:45,600
it would have been and i think it might

3720
02:22:49,110 --> 02:22:47,040
have been the

3721
02:22:52,710 --> 02:22:49,120
perhaps the 30th

3722
02:22:55,510 --> 02:22:52,720
anniversary of that event

3723
02:22:58,230 --> 02:22:55,520
because it was right about that time

3724
02:23:01,110 --> 02:22:58,240
of this in the summer

3725
02:23:04,150 --> 02:23:01,120
of 1978

3726
02:23:06,870 --> 02:23:04,160
and what was it that he related to you

3727
02:23:09,110 --> 02:23:06,880
as to what it occurred well and he

3728
02:23:11,590 --> 02:23:09,120
of course we will understand we were in

3729
02:23:14,389 --> 02:23:11,600
a public place

3730
02:23:16,630 --> 02:23:14,399
where we met frequently

3731
02:23:19,950 --> 02:23:16,640
and

3732
02:23:25,670 --> 02:23:19,960
but we did speak in in quite

3733
02:23:32,630 --> 02:23:29,590
he told me about the roswell incident

3734
02:23:35,270 --> 02:23:32,640
when that incident

3735
02:23:38,070 --> 02:23:35,280
occurred why i happened to have been

3736
02:23:39,270 --> 02:23:38,080
in a period of inactive duty in my naval

3737
02:23:42,309 --> 02:23:39,280
service

3738
02:23:44,150 --> 02:23:42,319
and i was living in northern minnesota

3739
02:23:45,030 --> 02:23:44,160
and i i guess the

3740
02:23:51,750 --> 02:23:45,040
the

3741
02:23:53,429 --> 02:23:51,760
incident

3742
02:23:56,309 --> 02:23:53,439
that was casually mentioned in our

3743
02:23:58,870 --> 02:23:56,319
newspapers uh

3744
02:24:01,910 --> 02:23:58,880
perhaps as late as a month later who

3745
02:24:03,750 --> 02:24:01,920
knows but northern minnesotans weren't

3746
02:24:08,230 --> 02:24:03,760
too worried about what happened

3747
02:24:14,150 --> 02:24:10,070
so what what did kathy anderson tell you

3748
02:24:17,990 --> 02:24:14,160
happened but he said that he had unusual

3749
02:24:19,590 --> 02:24:18,000
job to perform while he's in his

3750
02:24:22,710 --> 02:24:19,600
air force

3751
02:24:30,110 --> 02:24:25,429
that he transported wreckage and the

3752
02:24:31,510 --> 02:24:30,120
bodies of the alien people to ohio

3753
02:24:34,550 --> 02:24:31,520
[Music]

3754
02:24:38,469 --> 02:24:34,560
it was that simple and jack was a man of

3755
02:24:42,469 --> 02:24:41,270
in our habit the way we

3756
02:24:44,870 --> 02:24:42,479
dealt and

3757
02:24:47,990 --> 02:24:44,880
talked with each other we really didn't

3758
02:24:52,150 --> 02:24:49,990
time

3759
02:24:53,510 --> 02:24:52,160
we said it and that's it there's nothing

3760
02:24:56,230 --> 02:24:53,520
more to it

3761
02:24:59,750 --> 02:24:56,240
did he describe any of the wreckage to

3762
02:25:07,510 --> 02:25:03,670
not really at that time it was just a

3763
02:25:10,870 --> 02:25:09,349
pile of

3764
02:25:12,790 --> 02:25:10,880
i guess space

3765
02:25:14,870 --> 02:25:12,800
wreckage

3766
02:25:16,550 --> 02:25:14,880
spacecraft garbage

3767
02:25:19,370 --> 02:25:16,560
and the

3768
02:25:20,630 --> 02:25:19,380
i guess some of the passengers thereon

3769
02:25:21,830 --> 02:25:20,640
[Music]

3770
02:25:27,830 --> 02:25:21,840
suffered

3771
02:25:32,630 --> 02:25:29,830
i really

3772
02:25:34,870 --> 02:25:32,640
was more or less privileged to just be

3773
02:25:37,910 --> 02:25:34,880
listening so i i

3774
02:25:41,030 --> 02:25:37,920
refrained from asking a lot of questions

3775
02:25:43,510 --> 02:25:41,040
but he did say that these people were

3776
02:25:45,110 --> 02:25:43,520
small

3777
02:25:46,710 --> 02:25:45,120
and that

3778
02:25:47,590 --> 02:25:46,720
there were quite a number of them he

3779
02:25:49,110 --> 02:25:47,600
never

3780
02:25:51,270 --> 02:25:49,120
described

3781
02:25:52,630 --> 02:25:51,280
the actual number to me

3782
02:25:53,670 --> 02:25:52,640
since i've

3783
02:25:56,309 --> 02:25:53,680
of course

3784
02:25:59,190 --> 02:25:56,319
been filled in somewhat

3785
02:26:01,750 --> 02:25:59,200
i'm still not sure that there were

3786
02:26:04,790 --> 02:26:01,760
what they even claimed now there may

3787
02:26:09,750 --> 02:26:06,870
did he describe their appearance any

3788
02:26:10,870 --> 02:26:09,760
further than saying they were small

3789
02:26:12,630 --> 02:26:10,880
not to me

3790
02:26:16,389 --> 02:26:12,640
uh

3791
02:26:18,710 --> 02:26:16,399
distasteful

3792
02:26:21,910 --> 02:26:18,720
i was pretty well tuned into

3793
02:26:24,710 --> 02:26:23,990
feelings you know

3794
02:26:27,270 --> 02:26:24,720
and

3795
02:26:30,870 --> 02:26:27,280
if something was bothering him

3796
02:26:32,230 --> 02:26:30,880
i'd be sort of aware of it

3797
02:26:40,230 --> 02:26:32,240
very

3798
02:26:44,950 --> 02:26:43,030
do you know what kind of craft he flew

3799
02:26:47,110 --> 02:26:44,960
to white patterson

3800
02:26:50,150 --> 02:26:47,120
well it's a navy man i wasn't too

3801
02:26:52,630 --> 02:26:50,160
familiar with what the army air corps

3802
02:26:54,309 --> 02:26:52,640
later air force

3803
02:26:56,389 --> 02:26:54,319
had

3804
02:26:57,670 --> 02:26:56,399
my experience with airplanes ended with

3805
02:26:59,270 --> 02:26:57,680
the

3806
02:27:01,870 --> 02:26:59,280
taylor

3807
02:27:03,750 --> 02:27:01,880
craft and pipers and

3808
02:27:07,030 --> 02:27:03,760
iraqis and

3809
02:27:10,790 --> 02:27:07,040
things like that pre-world war ii

3810
02:27:15,349 --> 02:27:13,270
the rest of the

3811
02:27:18,870 --> 02:27:15,359
lost but i it was one of the bees of

3812
02:27:22,710 --> 02:27:21,030
did he did he say what his takeoff point

3813
02:27:31,510 --> 02:27:22,720
was

3814
02:27:34,550 --> 02:27:31,520
going to write matters yep that's where

3815
02:27:36,230 --> 02:27:34,560
he did say and he said that the remains

3816
02:27:38,150 --> 02:27:36,240
were there

3817
02:27:43,030 --> 02:27:38,160
and

3818
02:27:48,469 --> 02:27:46,150
which would lead me to believe that uh

3819
02:27:51,429 --> 02:27:48,479
that being the case that autopsy work

3820
02:27:53,190 --> 02:27:51,439
was being planned

3821
02:27:55,110 --> 02:27:53,200
and would have undoubtedly been

3822
02:27:57,830 --> 02:27:55,120
performed

3823
02:27:59,990 --> 02:27:57,840
did he relate any information following

3824
02:28:02,870 --> 02:28:00,000
this flight that would shed some light

3825
02:28:03,910 --> 02:28:02,880
on what the wreckage or the bodies were

3826
02:28:08,389 --> 02:28:03,920
all about

3827
02:28:10,950 --> 02:28:08,399
no uh it was perhaps uh a year later

3828
02:28:13,990 --> 02:28:10,960
we were meeting again under

3829
02:28:17,190 --> 02:28:14,000
about same circumstances

3830
02:28:19,510 --> 02:28:17,200
we decided to have a game of pool and

3831
02:28:21,830 --> 02:28:19,520
and when we had a little break in our

3832
02:28:24,389 --> 02:28:21,840
game why uh he

3833
02:28:27,910 --> 02:28:24,399
produced this piece of metal for me to

3834
02:28:29,590 --> 02:28:27,920
look at he said what do what do i think

3835
02:28:31,830 --> 02:28:29,600
of it

3836
02:28:33,429 --> 02:28:31,840
i said well it's

3837
02:28:35,990 --> 02:28:33,439
it's different

3838
02:28:37,510 --> 02:28:36,000
and i felt it and it did feel it and i

3839
02:28:40,710 --> 02:28:37,520
studied it some

3840
02:28:43,270 --> 02:28:40,720
i was able to determine that its

3841
02:28:45,190 --> 02:28:43,280
metal structure was

3842
02:28:47,670 --> 02:28:45,200
different than alloys like we have in

3843
02:28:49,990 --> 02:28:47,680
our aircraft for instance

3844
02:28:52,070 --> 02:28:50,000
and of course he did

3845
02:28:55,429 --> 02:28:52,080
preface his

3846
02:28:58,230 --> 02:28:55,439
question by stating this was from

3847
02:29:00,389 --> 02:28:58,240
this craft

3848
02:29:03,990 --> 02:29:00,399
apparently uh

3849
02:29:08,150 --> 02:29:06,550
appropriation that he acquired this you

3850
02:29:12,550 --> 02:29:08,160
know

3851
02:29:17,110 --> 02:29:14,070
at any rate uh

3852
02:29:21,030 --> 02:29:17,120
i i gave it a good thorough

3853
02:29:23,910 --> 02:29:21,040
looking at and decided that

3854
02:29:27,429 --> 02:29:23,920
it was uh

3855
02:29:33,670 --> 02:29:31,670
we are not used to or we have none

3856
02:29:38,230 --> 02:29:33,680
we don't think we do

3857
02:29:41,429 --> 02:29:38,240
there is a possibility we may be able to

3858
02:29:43,590 --> 02:29:41,439
come up with something like it

3859
02:29:45,830 --> 02:29:43,600
what do you think

3860
02:29:47,429 --> 02:29:45,840
roundabout statement i understand how

3861
02:29:49,990 --> 02:29:47,439
about describing it for me what did it

3862
02:29:53,270 --> 02:29:50,000
look like feel like well it was a

3863
02:29:55,190 --> 02:29:53,280
lustrous uh gray lustrous metal that

3864
02:29:56,469 --> 02:29:55,200
resembled aluminum

3865
02:29:58,550 --> 02:29:56,479
it was

3866
02:30:01,110 --> 02:29:58,560
lighter in weight

3867
02:30:02,950 --> 02:30:01,120
and much stiffer

3868
02:30:05,670 --> 02:30:02,960
if you're familiar with aluminum alloys

3869
02:30:08,230 --> 02:30:05,680
like stuff 37

3870
02:30:11,110 --> 02:30:08,240
it's a very stiff tough aluminum well

3871
02:30:13,110 --> 02:30:11,120
this was harder and stiffer than that

3872
02:30:15,110 --> 02:30:13,120
could you bend it no

3873
02:30:18,630 --> 02:30:15,120
not and i didn't want to try the edges

3874
02:30:23,670 --> 02:30:21,510
yeah and jack didn't want to

3875
02:30:25,830 --> 02:30:23,680
let it out of his

3876
02:30:28,710 --> 02:30:25,840
personal

3877
02:30:31,110 --> 02:30:28,720
ownership you know so

3878
02:30:32,950 --> 02:30:31,120
i couldn't take it into my lab and do

3879
02:30:34,630 --> 02:30:32,960
some testing on it which i really would

3880
02:30:39,590 --> 02:30:34,640
like to

3881
02:30:41,750 --> 02:30:39,600
what it would take to

3882
02:30:43,429 --> 02:30:41,760
machine it

3883
02:30:48,230 --> 02:30:43,439
in other words

3884
02:30:52,790 --> 02:30:50,150
that decision came out

3885
02:30:56,150 --> 02:30:52,800
as a result of our having made a

3886
02:30:58,070 --> 02:30:56,160
an alloy similar to it

3887
02:30:59,900 --> 02:30:58,080
which

3888
02:31:02,230 --> 02:30:59,910
up to this point no one's been able to

3889
02:31:04,550 --> 02:31:02,240
[Music]

3890
02:31:06,150 --> 02:31:04,560
scratch it so to speak but that's kind

3891
02:31:07,910 --> 02:31:06,160
of beside the point

3892
02:31:11,910 --> 02:31:07,920
but i think this is one other reason

3893
02:31:14,070 --> 02:31:11,920
that jack showed me this piece because

3894
02:31:17,590 --> 02:31:14,080
our association had gone on quite a few

3895
02:31:23,349 --> 02:31:20,389
and i didn't tell anybody about it

3896
02:31:28,389 --> 02:31:23,359
i think this is my first discussion

3897
02:31:31,190 --> 02:31:28,399
or the meeting as of this date publicly

3898
02:31:32,950 --> 02:31:31,200
so what did he do with this with this

3899
02:31:34,710 --> 02:31:32,960
piece of metal

3900
02:31:39,750 --> 02:31:34,720
he put it in his pocket and that's the

3901
02:31:43,750 --> 02:31:42,230
it's probably in his personal effects

3902
02:31:47,110 --> 02:31:43,760
somewhere

3903
02:31:48,309 --> 02:31:47,120
his wife states that

3904
02:31:50,790 --> 02:31:48,319
there's many

3905
02:31:53,030 --> 02:31:50,800
boxes of his things

3906
02:31:54,790 --> 02:31:53,040
that she has gone through or opened her

3907
02:31:57,910 --> 02:31:54,800
looked at some

3908
02:31:59,349 --> 02:31:57,920
could be could be that uh

3909
02:32:01,990 --> 02:31:59,359
that piece is there and i certainly

3910
02:32:05,270 --> 02:32:02,000
recognize it if it were

3911
02:32:08,469 --> 02:32:06,750
my feeling was that

3912
02:32:10,630 --> 02:32:08,479
[Music]

3913
02:32:12,550 --> 02:32:10,640
the metal itself was uh

3914
02:32:14,309 --> 02:32:12,560
not it didn't have a

3915
02:32:17,030 --> 02:32:14,319
crystal uh

3916
02:32:18,070 --> 02:32:17,040
lattice structure like uh alloys that we

3917
02:32:21,030 --> 02:32:18,080
make

3918
02:32:23,670 --> 02:32:21,040
it was more of an amorphous

3919
02:32:26,469 --> 02:32:23,680
form and the

3920
02:32:31,830 --> 02:32:26,479
fractures of the edges were more

3921
02:32:36,710 --> 02:32:34,309
as i recall a they had a

3922
02:32:39,270 --> 02:32:36,720
conchoidal appearance

3923
02:32:41,110 --> 02:32:39,280
like uh plate glass or

3924
02:32:43,510 --> 02:32:41,120
bottle glass for instance what they have

3925
02:32:45,030 --> 02:32:43,520
to break up

3926
02:32:46,870 --> 02:32:45,040
smooth

3927
02:32:48,790 --> 02:32:46,880
concave shapes

3928
02:32:50,710 --> 02:32:48,800
with real sharp edges

3929
02:32:55,270 --> 02:32:50,720
what's significant about that

3930
02:32:59,270 --> 02:32:57,030
which

3931
02:33:00,950 --> 02:32:59,280
may have a lot to do with

3932
02:33:03,670 --> 02:33:00,960
its physical

3933
02:33:05,429 --> 02:33:03,680
properties perhaps in flight

3934
02:33:08,870 --> 02:33:05,439
or resistance to

3935
02:33:13,030 --> 02:33:11,190
like entrance and exit

3936
02:33:16,270 --> 02:33:13,040
i know we're using

3937
02:33:17,990 --> 02:33:16,280
non-metallic materials like

3938
02:33:20,150 --> 02:33:18,000
osteotomic

3939
02:33:21,830 --> 02:33:20,160
to

3940
02:33:23,750 --> 02:33:21,840
coat our

3941
02:33:25,670 --> 02:33:23,760
our

3942
02:33:27,670 --> 02:33:25,680
shuttles with so on

3943
02:33:30,950 --> 02:33:27,680
to absorb the heat this apparently

3944
02:33:35,750 --> 02:33:34,230
what would your as with your background

3945
02:33:37,510 --> 02:33:35,760
your knowledge of metallurgy would you

3946
02:33:40,550 --> 02:33:37,520
think that this was something that

3947
02:33:42,389 --> 02:33:40,560
would have been easily manufactured

3948
02:33:43,990 --> 02:33:42,399
using

3949
02:33:47,590 --> 02:33:44,000
technology available

3950
02:33:49,270 --> 02:33:47,600
at the time you saw this material

3951
02:33:51,990 --> 02:33:49,280
well i don't i don't think i've been

3952
02:33:53,910 --> 02:33:52,000
easy for us to do no

3953
02:33:56,790 --> 02:33:53,920
uh

3954
02:33:59,990 --> 02:33:56,800
i think we're looking at pretty

3955
02:34:02,150 --> 02:34:00,000
high temperatures and smelling one thing

3956
02:34:04,550 --> 02:34:02,160
i think now

3957
02:34:05,990 --> 02:34:04,560
perhaps it would be easier

3958
02:34:08,469 --> 02:34:06,000
they have uh

3959
02:34:11,349 --> 02:34:08,479
refractories for instance have changed

3960
02:34:13,510 --> 02:34:11,359
in furnaces or smellers

3961
02:34:16,469 --> 02:34:13,520
they they are able to tolerate

3962
02:34:18,309 --> 02:34:16,479
better temperature higher temperatures

3963
02:34:20,790 --> 02:34:18,319
and

3964
02:34:21,720 --> 02:34:20,800
well then we have more let's say more

3965
02:34:22,870 --> 02:34:21,730
sophisticated

3966
02:34:25,429 --> 02:34:22,880
[Music]

3967
02:34:27,270 --> 02:34:25,439
temperature control things of that

3968
02:34:29,270 --> 02:34:27,280
nature that would be needed to perfect

3969
02:34:31,830 --> 02:34:29,280
an alloy like that

3970
02:34:35,110 --> 02:34:31,840
but i do think that it

3971
02:34:38,070 --> 02:34:35,120
it the metal and i i think that should

3972
02:34:40,230 --> 02:34:38,080
be used with the quotation marks

3973
02:34:42,469 --> 02:34:40,240
uh metal is

3974
02:34:44,550 --> 02:34:42,479
is a

3975
02:34:45,750 --> 02:34:44,560
salacious salacious

3976
02:34:47,670 --> 02:34:45,760
alloy

3977
02:34:49,750 --> 02:34:47,680
that's my own opinion

3978
02:34:52,230 --> 02:34:49,760
what does that mean

3979
02:34:55,190 --> 02:34:52,240
well that it

3980
02:34:57,590 --> 02:34:55,200
it's a compound

3981
02:35:00,710 --> 02:34:57,600
of silicon

3982
02:35:02,630 --> 02:35:00,720
with whatever the

3983
02:35:07,180 --> 02:35:02,640
the main

3984
02:35:09,190 --> 02:35:07,190
constituent metal itself would be

3985
02:35:14,309 --> 02:35:09,200
[Music]

3986
02:35:20,710 --> 02:35:16,389
atomic weight

3987
02:35:24,790 --> 02:35:20,720
which appears to be somewhere

3988
02:35:30,150 --> 02:35:27,270
and

3989
02:35:33,590 --> 02:35:30,160
in fact that causes a considerable

3990
02:35:36,870 --> 02:35:34,630
for instance

3991
02:35:39,270 --> 02:35:36,880
the lab techs reading

3992
02:35:42,230 --> 02:35:39,280
the plates because of the

3993
02:35:44,309 --> 02:35:42,240
overlay of the of the lines spectral

3994
02:35:46,630 --> 02:35:44,319
lines

3995
02:35:50,870 --> 02:35:49,110
there's one material that was was

3996
02:35:54,230 --> 02:35:50,880
smelled

3997
02:35:57,990 --> 02:35:54,240
and the button made which

3998
02:36:01,910 --> 02:36:00,870
a similar alloy

3999
02:36:07,030 --> 02:36:01,920
but

4000
02:36:12,710 --> 02:36:10,230
it weighed a lot more though

4001
02:36:14,790 --> 02:36:12,720
what is your own belief

4002
02:36:16,469 --> 02:36:14,800
about what this

4003
02:36:18,469 --> 02:36:16,479
fragment was from

4004
02:36:21,429 --> 02:36:18,479
what did it represent well i think it

4005
02:36:23,030 --> 02:36:21,439
was a one of the structural

4006
02:36:24,230 --> 02:36:23,040
parts

4007
02:36:28,469 --> 02:36:24,240
not the

4008
02:36:31,429 --> 02:36:30,389
i know that

4009
02:36:32,870 --> 02:36:31,439
jack

4010
02:36:35,349 --> 02:36:32,880
himself

4011
02:36:37,429 --> 02:36:35,359
always stated to me as far as the thin

4012
02:36:40,389 --> 02:36:37,439
materials go that that was the lining of

4013
02:36:44,870 --> 02:36:42,230
and that when properly energized it

4014
02:36:46,710 --> 02:36:44,880
produced perfect illumination

4015
02:36:48,710 --> 02:36:46,720
inside

4016
02:36:54,150 --> 02:36:48,720
that you had a total

4017
02:36:56,950 --> 02:36:55,110
but

4018
02:36:59,830 --> 02:36:56,960
that's why i asked today this gentleman

4019
02:37:01,830 --> 02:36:59,840
that i think it was jesse

4020
02:37:03,990 --> 02:37:01,840
that had his hands on some of that thin

4021
02:37:05,030 --> 02:37:04,000
material if he had seen it in the dark

4022
02:37:06,790 --> 02:37:05,040
right

4023
02:37:08,070 --> 02:37:06,800
i guess he hadn't

4024
02:37:10,710 --> 02:37:08,080
paid any attention to it he's pretty

4025
02:37:16,070 --> 02:37:12,790
that would be kind of interesting to see

4026
02:37:16,080 --> 02:37:19,270
energized

4027
02:37:22,070 --> 02:37:19,990
or

4028
02:37:23,750 --> 02:37:22,080
polarized maybe is

4029
02:37:25,510 --> 02:37:23,760
how it would need to be

4030
02:37:27,270 --> 02:37:25,520
it's hard to say

4031
02:37:29,750 --> 02:37:27,280
take a little um

4032
02:37:32,309 --> 02:37:29,760
well take a good little scientist and

4033
02:37:34,230 --> 02:37:32,319
maybe one of our physicist friends who

4034
02:37:36,710 --> 02:37:34,240
could tackle that and light the place up

4035
02:37:37,510 --> 02:37:36,720
with a piece of that you know

4036
02:37:41,429 --> 02:37:37,520
it's

4037
02:37:46,630 --> 02:37:41,439
what what do you think this was from

4038
02:37:50,950 --> 02:37:48,630
yeah i think that metal that thin

4039
02:37:52,870 --> 02:37:50,960
material was different i didn't see any

4040
02:37:54,630 --> 02:37:52,880
of it but from what i've seen in the

4041
02:37:57,030 --> 02:37:54,640
pictures and so on i

4042
02:37:59,429 --> 02:37:57,040
i don't think that's the same

4043
02:38:01,110 --> 02:37:59,439
the same metal

4044
02:38:03,270 --> 02:38:01,120
is your feeling that this was from an

4045
02:38:05,110 --> 02:38:03,280
extraterrestrial spacecraft

4046
02:38:11,510 --> 02:38:05,120
oh yes well there's no question in my

4047
02:38:18,469 --> 02:38:12,550
the

4048
02:38:21,429 --> 02:38:18,479
said it was just split open

4049
02:38:24,710 --> 02:38:21,439
the color of it the way it looked and

4050
02:38:24,720 --> 02:38:29,830
about the way that piece that i had

4051
02:38:33,349 --> 02:38:31,429
i'm sorry which photo are we talking

4052
02:38:35,910 --> 02:38:33,359
about here well whether it was a drawing

4053
02:38:37,750 --> 02:38:35,920
or a painting or a reconstruction i

4054
02:38:41,830 --> 02:38:37,760
don't really know but

4055
02:38:46,950 --> 02:38:42,630
that's

4056
02:38:46,960 --> 02:38:50,870
slightly mistreated maybe

4057
02:38:55,510 --> 02:38:53,429
high temperatures

4058
02:38:58,550 --> 02:38:55,520
no doubt on your mind though that this

4059
02:39:02,230 --> 02:38:58,560
was from outer space i have no question

4060
02:39:04,389 --> 02:39:02,240
but what it was from outer space bodies

4061
02:39:05,990 --> 02:39:04,399
sure

4062
02:39:08,950 --> 02:39:06,000
there's the main reason we don't have a

4063
02:39:12,150 --> 02:39:08,960
franchise on the universe yeah

4064
02:39:17,030 --> 02:39:12,160
i if you're interested in my thinking on

4065
02:39:20,230 --> 02:39:19,190
i don't think we have a franchise on

4066
02:39:22,790 --> 02:39:20,240
being

4067
02:39:26,150 --> 02:39:22,800
the only good guys

4068
02:39:27,910 --> 02:39:26,160
and or bad guys either by that matter

4069
02:39:30,150 --> 02:39:27,920
in the universe

4070
02:39:32,070 --> 02:39:30,160
obviously this was something that was uh

4071
02:39:33,670 --> 02:39:32,080
considered to be highly secret

4072
02:39:36,790 --> 02:39:33,680
patty henderson one would have shared

4073
02:39:40,070 --> 02:39:36,800
this with you right without a foundation

4074
02:39:41,110 --> 02:39:40,080
of trust right well he asked me

4075
02:39:42,790 --> 02:39:41,120
to

4076
02:39:44,389 --> 02:39:42,800
observe the

4077
02:39:45,990 --> 02:39:44,399
protocol

4078
02:39:48,710 --> 02:39:46,000
to

4079
02:39:50,710 --> 02:39:48,720
not mention it which i i didn't i was

4080
02:39:52,309 --> 02:39:50,720
kind of surprised to find that you've

4081
02:39:54,710 --> 02:39:52,319
taken a couple other people into his

4082
02:39:58,309 --> 02:39:54,720
covenants

4083
02:40:01,349 --> 02:39:58,319
one of which was bill here today

4084
02:40:04,389 --> 02:40:01,359
also there is another one that

4085
02:40:08,150 --> 02:40:05,510
this is

4086
02:40:11,030 --> 02:40:08,160
one of our naval helicopter pilots who's

4087
02:40:15,269 --> 02:40:13,030
was aware of

4088
02:40:17,670 --> 02:40:15,279
what papi had seen

4089
02:40:22,469 --> 02:40:17,680
i think he was pretty choosy about who

4090
02:40:26,630 --> 02:40:22,479
he talked to i think did he express any

4091
02:40:28,870 --> 02:40:26,640
any feelings about the secrecy aspect or

4092
02:40:30,070 --> 02:40:28,880
why it was that he wanted to share this

4093
02:40:32,830 --> 02:40:30,080
information

4094
02:40:37,110 --> 02:40:32,840
well jack had become ill with

4095
02:40:39,030 --> 02:40:37,120
uh he had no carcinoma

4096
02:40:41,670 --> 02:40:39,040
and

4097
02:40:43,750 --> 02:40:41,680
i would guess that

4098
02:40:45,110 --> 02:40:43,760
he probably wanted to leave it i think

4099
02:40:46,389 --> 02:40:45,120
bill osborne

4100
02:40:48,870 --> 02:40:46,399
expressed that

4101
02:40:51,590 --> 02:40:48,880
notion

4102
02:40:53,830 --> 02:40:51,600
i think he wanted to leave it

4103
02:40:58,389 --> 02:40:53,840
just in case he did die

4104
02:41:04,710 --> 02:41:01,190
oh he had great hopes that he would be

4105
02:41:05,830 --> 02:41:04,720
given to be given a ride

4106
02:41:09,670 --> 02:41:05,840
and it would probably would have

4107
02:41:15,590 --> 02:41:12,550
it seemed like he had sort of set up

4108
02:41:21,590 --> 02:41:18,630
it's beyond my uh

4109
02:41:24,309 --> 02:41:21,600
knowledge of his activity

4110
02:41:26,630 --> 02:41:24,319
but you know you take the

4111
02:41:27,990 --> 02:41:26,640
case at switzerland

4112
02:41:31,349 --> 02:41:28,000
event

4113
02:41:33,830 --> 02:41:31,359
and lady and arrivals there

4114
02:41:35,110 --> 02:41:33,840
in fact all the footage that was

4115
02:41:37,670 --> 02:41:35,120
made

4116
02:41:40,550 --> 02:41:37,680
of those spacecraft

4117
02:41:42,550 --> 02:41:40,560
and which incidentally i've seen the

4118
02:41:43,429 --> 02:41:42,560
some of the film on that

4119
02:41:45,830 --> 02:41:43,439
and

4120
02:41:48,230 --> 02:41:45,840
greatly resembles the uh

4121
02:41:51,269 --> 02:41:48,240
our channel 13 uh

4122
02:41:53,910 --> 02:41:51,279
that's the right channel in l.a

4123
02:41:55,269 --> 02:41:53,920
that photograph the two that flew over

4124
02:41:56,630 --> 02:41:55,279
uh just

4125
02:41:58,469 --> 02:41:56,640
in

4126
02:42:04,389 --> 02:41:58,479
is either

4127
02:42:08,550 --> 02:42:06,230
they they just came in and made us

4128
02:42:10,870 --> 02:42:08,560
swooping

4129
02:42:13,349 --> 02:42:10,880
in and out and someone just happened to

4130
02:42:16,469 --> 02:42:13,359
be taking some pictures senate and

4131
02:42:18,550 --> 02:42:16,479
stupid crap in action and the films

4132
02:42:20,870 --> 02:42:18,560
proved to be

4133
02:42:22,230 --> 02:42:20,880
genuine

4134
02:42:24,070 --> 02:42:22,240
those looked

4135
02:42:29,510 --> 02:42:24,080
for all the world exactly like the ones

4136
02:42:35,510 --> 02:42:33,269
yeah pappy made a great effort to

4137
02:42:36,950 --> 02:42:35,520
apprise me of what all that swiss thing

4138
02:42:39,510 --> 02:42:36,960
was about

4139
02:42:40,389 --> 02:42:39,520
he spent quite a bit of money here

4140
02:42:44,309 --> 02:42:40,399
on

4141
02:42:45,670 --> 02:42:44,319
books for me and things of that nature

4142
02:42:48,070 --> 02:42:45,680
some of which

4143
02:42:50,630 --> 02:42:48,080
involved some of our own military where

4144
02:42:52,550 --> 02:42:50,640
they were doing

4145
02:42:56,469 --> 02:42:52,560
intensive

4146
02:42:59,510 --> 02:42:56,479
study to verify the authenticity

4147
02:43:01,590 --> 02:42:59,520
of these swiss landings

4148
02:43:03,990 --> 02:43:01,600
and they

4149
02:43:06,790 --> 02:43:04,000
i think to a man on these panels

4150
02:43:09,030 --> 02:43:06,800
concluded that they were real

4151
02:43:10,070 --> 02:43:09,040
and the all the school children over

4152
02:43:12,389 --> 02:43:10,080
there

4153
02:43:15,269 --> 02:43:12,399
i've seen pictures in the movies of

4154
02:43:20,870 --> 02:43:18,550
you can't have 38 kids

4155
02:43:23,429 --> 02:43:20,880
i'll give you the same story usually on

4156
02:43:25,830 --> 02:43:23,439
anything but on this one issue well

4157
02:43:28,309 --> 02:43:25,840
there was no question about it

4158
02:43:31,750 --> 02:43:28,319
plus the description of the squadron

4159
02:43:32,950 --> 02:43:31,760
commander in that case it was a lady

4160
02:43:34,309 --> 02:43:32,960
and she

4161
02:43:36,870 --> 02:43:34,319
her squadron

4162
02:43:41,750 --> 02:43:36,880
was three

4163
02:43:46,150 --> 02:43:43,910
described her craft and

4164
02:43:47,510 --> 02:43:46,160
allowed him to photograph

4165
02:43:49,110 --> 02:43:47,520
as far as this metal fragment is

4166
02:43:51,910 --> 02:43:49,120
concerned do you have any idea where it

4167
02:43:54,150 --> 02:43:51,920
is now today no

4168
02:43:58,150 --> 02:43:54,160
i don't i think if it's

4169
02:44:00,550 --> 02:43:58,160
anywhere in his personal effects

4170
02:44:04,150 --> 02:44:00,560
it was pretty traumatic when jack died

4171
02:44:06,710 --> 02:44:04,160
at that time

4172
02:44:08,309 --> 02:44:06,720
[Music]

4173
02:44:09,750 --> 02:44:08,319
her daughter's

4174
02:44:12,790 --> 02:44:09,760
mother-in-law

4175
02:44:15,110 --> 02:44:12,800
wasn't very ill and

4176
02:44:17,910 --> 02:44:15,120
so they just packed

4177
02:44:20,070 --> 02:44:17,920
sappho up out of her apartment moved her

4178
02:44:21,830 --> 02:44:20,080
to

4179
02:44:26,950 --> 02:44:21,840
l.a

4180
02:44:30,870 --> 02:44:29,030
and i think as sample said if it's

4181
02:44:33,269 --> 02:44:30,880
anywhere it's in some of the old boxes

4182
02:44:34,950 --> 02:44:33,279
they haven't even opened yet

4183
02:44:36,389 --> 02:44:34,960
so i'm going to look into that and

4184
02:44:37,750 --> 02:44:36,399
return

4185
02:44:39,990 --> 02:44:37,760
see if i can

4186
02:44:41,349 --> 02:44:40,000
maybe convince her to go ahead we very

4187
02:44:42,469 --> 02:44:41,359
much want to know what the result of

4188
02:44:45,030 --> 02:44:42,479
that is

4189
02:44:47,510 --> 02:44:45,040
yeah well if i get it it'll hit right

4190
02:44:49,670 --> 02:44:47,520
straight from my safety deposit box and

4191
02:44:54,150 --> 02:44:49,680
then i'll get on the telephone

4192
02:44:58,550 --> 02:44:56,160
did not have to kidnap me

4193
02:44:59,910 --> 02:44:58,560
[Music]

4194
02:45:03,269 --> 02:44:59,920
well thank you doctor

4195
02:45:05,349 --> 02:45:03,279
i appreciate you very welcome honey

4196
02:45:07,190 --> 02:45:05,359
i'm hopeful that uh

4197
02:45:10,870 --> 02:45:07,200
i've strengthened

4198
02:45:12,710 --> 02:45:10,880
your thinking in some ways

4199
02:45:15,429 --> 02:45:12,720
now i

4200
02:45:17,590 --> 02:45:15,439
if i find that metal i'll i'll send it

4201
02:45:20,550 --> 02:45:17,600
back here

4202
02:45:23,650 --> 02:45:20,560
and i should know uh

4203
02:45:24,870 --> 02:45:23,660
i think there was one gentleman

4204
02:45:27,590 --> 02:45:24,880
[Music]

4205
02:45:29,190 --> 02:45:27,600
maybe i can recognize this team

4206
02:45:32,389 --> 02:45:29,200
somebody on our board oh david

4207
02:45:34,870 --> 02:45:32,399
schwartzman is that you yeah yeah

4208
02:45:36,950 --> 02:45:34,880
howard university yeah yeah

4209
02:45:39,910 --> 02:45:36,960
okay i thought he'd be the one that he

4210
02:45:41,990 --> 02:45:39,920
seemed to be most interested in that

4211
02:45:44,550 --> 02:45:42,000
piece of metal and also on the smelling

4212
02:45:46,550 --> 02:45:44,560
techniques that were developed too how

4213
02:45:48,550 --> 02:45:46,560
do you know about that stuff

4214
02:45:51,190 --> 02:45:48,560
yeah well he really got a kick out of

4215
02:45:54,550 --> 02:45:51,200
what i told him about our our

4216
02:45:57,250 --> 02:45:54,560
misfiring of trying to cut that

4217
02:45:57,260 --> 02:46:02,710
[Music]

4218
02:46:07,750 --> 02:46:04,950
one of our our government facilities i

4219
02:46:10,469 --> 02:46:07,760
think has a unit there that this

4220
02:46:13,510 --> 02:46:10,479
button that was made went to for cutting

4221
02:46:15,110 --> 02:46:13,520
an analysis well they couldn't cut it

4222
02:46:18,870 --> 02:46:15,120
and i sent it back they had a few

4223
02:46:21,269 --> 02:46:18,880
scratches and that's it they broke every

4224
02:46:24,550 --> 02:46:21,279
metronome metal blade they had and that

4225
02:46:25,590 --> 02:46:24,560
lab they gave up on it now this was a of

4226
02:46:30,070 --> 02:46:25,600
what

4227
02:46:32,469 --> 02:46:30,080
similar one that was why jack got me

4228
02:46:33,670 --> 02:46:32,479
involved that's right yeah

4229
02:46:36,950 --> 02:46:33,680
that's

4230
02:46:39,349 --> 02:46:36,960
you hear about this this test at

4231
02:46:42,150 --> 02:46:39,359
stanford well i didn't know when i sent

4232
02:46:47,590 --> 02:46:44,790
see i'm into it that far you know

4233
02:46:48,710 --> 02:46:47,600
so you got this piece of metal

4234
02:46:51,269 --> 02:46:48,720
or something

4235
02:46:55,670 --> 02:46:53,269
the button that went to stanford i made

4236
02:46:57,110 --> 02:46:55,680
it oh oh okay this is this is a

4237
02:46:59,510 --> 02:46:57,120
fabricated

4238
02:47:02,230 --> 02:46:59,520
you know say not something okay i want

4239
02:47:04,830 --> 02:47:02,240
to make sure i understand that okay dr

4240
02:47:28,389 --> 02:47:04,840
can i get you to sign that for me

4241
02:47:34,150 --> 02:47:31,190
okay i'm judd roberts in roswell

4242
02:47:35,590 --> 02:47:34,160
and i was the minority stockholder and

4243
02:47:37,429 --> 02:47:35,600
the manager

4244
02:47:40,790 --> 02:47:37,439
of a radio station here back in those

4245
02:47:42,870 --> 02:47:40,800
days radio station kgfl okay

4246
02:47:45,830 --> 02:47:42,880
and

4247
02:47:48,389 --> 02:47:45,840
we we had we got word of it with the

4248
02:47:51,510 --> 02:47:48,399
rancher himself word of the

4249
02:47:53,030 --> 02:47:51,520
right oh i beg your pardon of this ufo

4250
02:47:55,750 --> 02:47:53,040
of course there was a release that came

4251
02:47:57,910 --> 02:47:55,760
out of walt hop's pio department out of

4252
02:47:59,190 --> 02:47:57,920
walker air force base

4253
02:48:03,190 --> 02:47:59,200
and

4254
02:48:05,030 --> 02:48:03,200
so we followed it up i did not go out

4255
02:48:06,630 --> 02:48:05,040
because i i

4256
02:48:08,389 --> 02:48:06,640
to the crash site i did not go out to

4257
02:48:10,070 --> 02:48:08,399
the craft site excuse me for being so

4258
02:48:11,670 --> 02:48:10,080
hesitant about this

4259
02:48:13,750 --> 02:48:11,680
if i'd look at the camera instead of you

4260
02:48:14,870 --> 02:48:13,760
it perhaps would be easier well that's

4261
02:48:17,590 --> 02:48:14,880
why i'm sitting over here so you can

4262
02:48:20,790 --> 02:48:17,600
talk to me okay so that's it

4263
02:48:22,870 --> 02:48:20,800
uh be that as it may uh we so you were

4264
02:48:25,750 --> 02:48:22,880
aware of something going on out there

4265
02:48:28,230 --> 02:48:25,760
definitely yeah and then directly from

4266
02:48:30,950 --> 02:48:28,240
walter's press release or other sources

4267
02:48:33,110 --> 02:48:30,960
other sources as a matter of fact

4268
02:48:34,230 --> 02:48:33,120
um

4269
02:48:35,750 --> 02:48:34,240
i don't know whether i should say this

4270
02:48:38,710 --> 02:48:35,760
or not but it was true we hid off the

4271
02:48:41,269 --> 02:48:38,720
rancher for one night

4272
02:48:43,510 --> 02:48:41,279
where yes and we we did we did some

4273
02:48:45,830 --> 02:48:43,520
transcriptions with him and so forth

4274
02:48:47,750 --> 02:48:45,840
good old wire recorders if you will

4275
02:48:50,070 --> 02:48:47,760
where did you hide him out we had about

4276
02:48:52,150 --> 02:48:50,080
mr whitmore's house here in town he

4277
02:48:54,150 --> 02:48:52,160
lived up outside of the city amendments

4278
02:48:56,469 --> 02:48:54,160
on the east side so you were present at

4279
02:48:58,950 --> 02:48:56,479
the actual interview i was not

4280
02:49:01,110 --> 02:48:58,960
i was trying to run the station

4281
02:49:02,469 --> 02:49:01,120
the question that we

4282
02:49:04,150 --> 02:49:02,479
ran into

4283
02:49:05,750 --> 02:49:04,160
is the very next morning

4284
02:49:08,070 --> 02:49:05,760
some friendly person probably from

4285
02:49:09,269 --> 02:49:08,080
clinton anderson's office called us from

4286
02:49:10,950 --> 02:49:09,279
washington

4287
02:49:12,790 --> 02:49:10,960
and said

4288
02:49:14,630 --> 02:49:12,800
you are we we understand that you have

4289
02:49:17,510 --> 02:49:14,640
some information

4290
02:49:19,510 --> 02:49:17,520
and we want to assure you that

4291
02:49:21,190 --> 02:49:19,520
if you release it

4292
02:49:22,550 --> 02:49:21,200
on this matter because it's not supposed

4293
02:49:24,469 --> 02:49:22,560
to be released

4294
02:49:26,630 --> 02:49:24,479
it's very possible that your license

4295
02:49:29,510 --> 02:49:26,640
could be in jeopardy

4296
02:49:31,190 --> 02:49:29,520
and so we suggest that you not do it

4297
02:49:33,349 --> 02:49:31,200
and you said when i mean in jeopardy

4298
02:49:34,870 --> 02:49:33,359
like maybe three days

4299
02:49:36,550 --> 02:49:34,880
did was there any suggestion when you

4300
02:49:37,750 --> 02:49:36,560
got that phone call i mean did walt

4301
02:49:39,349 --> 02:49:37,760
whitmore

4302
02:49:40,309 --> 02:49:39,359
hesitate about releasing the information

4303
02:49:43,030 --> 02:49:40,319
do you say well we're not going to

4304
02:49:47,510 --> 02:49:45,750
so you got the call yes i was at the

4305
02:49:50,309 --> 02:49:47,520
office you see

4306
02:49:51,269 --> 02:49:50,319
see w whitmore with who i worked

4307
02:49:52,950 --> 02:49:51,279
uh

4308
02:49:55,990 --> 02:49:52,960
had different office hours than you and

4309
02:49:57,750 --> 02:49:56,000
i and he was a great

4310
02:49:59,670 --> 02:49:57,760
nighttime worker and

4311
02:50:01,910 --> 02:49:59,680
he came in about six o'clock at night to

4312
02:50:03,429 --> 02:50:01,920
talk to me about the radio business

4313
02:50:05,510 --> 02:50:03,439
about the time since i've been there

4314
02:50:06,790 --> 02:50:05,520
since six o'clock in the morning

4315
02:50:09,349 --> 02:50:06,800
so you got the phone call from

4316
02:50:11,349 --> 02:50:09,359
washington yes yes and they they told

4317
02:50:14,309 --> 02:50:11,359
you that your license was in jeopardy

4318
02:50:15,349 --> 02:50:14,319
did you they they indicated that that

4319
02:50:16,870 --> 02:50:15,359
would be a

4320
02:50:18,389 --> 02:50:16,880
very negative thing

4321
02:50:19,990 --> 02:50:18,399
what convinced you that they meant

4322
02:50:22,230 --> 02:50:20,000
business and you were really talking to

4323
02:50:24,550 --> 02:50:22,240
somebody important i don't even remember

4324
02:50:25,990 --> 02:50:24,560
who it was who identified himself

4325
02:50:26,710 --> 02:50:26,000
was there anybody

4326
02:50:28,550 --> 02:50:26,720
but

4327
02:50:31,670 --> 02:50:28,560
he convinced me because

4328
02:50:33,110 --> 02:50:31,680
they'd already made such a stir about

4329
02:50:34,790 --> 02:50:33,120
about the releases you see to the

4330
02:50:36,389 --> 02:50:34,800
newspapers

4331
02:50:38,230 --> 02:50:36,399
and so forth

4332
02:50:40,469 --> 02:50:38,240
and so in other words the clamps went on

4333
02:50:41,510 --> 02:50:40,479
the story but this was not unusual for

4334
02:50:43,349 --> 02:50:41,520
me

4335
02:50:44,710 --> 02:50:43,359
because i had been down here for a

4336
02:50:46,070 --> 02:50:44,720
couple years at that time from

4337
02:50:48,150 --> 02:50:46,080
minneapolis

4338
02:50:51,030 --> 02:50:48,160
and with things like

4339
02:50:53,670 --> 02:50:51,040
air crashes at walker air force base

4340
02:50:55,990 --> 02:50:53,680
or the problems of that sort it was not

4341
02:50:57,510 --> 02:50:56,000
unusual for us to talk to the people and

4342
02:51:00,070 --> 02:50:57,520
they'd say okay

4343
02:51:02,070 --> 02:51:00,080
we've got a release date on this and not

4344
02:51:03,750 --> 02:51:02,080
before and not before this time of

4345
02:51:05,110 --> 02:51:03,760
course we always fought it because they

4346
02:51:06,950 --> 02:51:05,120
always tried to take care of the

4347
02:51:08,389 --> 02:51:06,960
afternoon newspaper

4348
02:51:10,150 --> 02:51:08,399
well that was that was where my question

4349
02:51:11,510 --> 02:51:10,160
was going when you got the phone call

4350
02:51:13,030 --> 02:51:11,520
from washington was there any thought

4351
02:51:14,469 --> 02:51:13,040
about going ahead to release the story

4352
02:51:17,349 --> 02:51:14,479
anyway or did you just immediately kill

4353
02:51:19,190 --> 02:51:17,359
it no we did not we didn't think so we

4354
02:51:20,950 --> 02:51:19,200
didn't know so when you got the phone

4355
02:51:23,590 --> 02:51:20,960
call that was it the story was done that

4356
02:51:25,429 --> 02:51:23,600
was as far as i was concerned okay i saw

4357
02:51:27,990 --> 02:51:25,439
no reason to do it because

4358
02:51:31,030 --> 02:51:28,000
it already had the disclaimers out there

4359
02:51:33,590 --> 02:51:31,040
10 tons of them talking about these

4360
02:51:35,429 --> 02:51:33,600
weather balloons and so forth

4361
02:51:37,590 --> 02:51:35,439
and so that was it

4362
02:51:39,590 --> 02:51:37,600
the point is that i was unable i never

4363
02:51:41,990 --> 02:51:39,600
did see the material i've talked to

4364
02:51:43,030 --> 02:51:42,000
people just as you have

4365
02:51:44,950 --> 02:51:43,040
people

4366
02:51:46,790 --> 02:51:44,960
i can't remember

4367
02:51:49,110 --> 02:51:46,800
can't remember at all

4368
02:51:52,309 --> 02:51:49,120
now you say you hit out or walt whitmore

4369
02:51:54,790 --> 02:51:52,319
hit out brazzle overnight on

4370
02:51:57,670 --> 02:51:54,800
oh yes but it was wa

4371
02:52:01,910 --> 02:51:59,590
um

4372
02:52:04,230 --> 02:52:01,920
so he had a the 45-minute wire recording

4373
02:52:06,150 --> 02:52:04,240
of brazil's interview that i don't know

4374
02:52:08,710 --> 02:52:06,160
how long it was

4375
02:52:11,269 --> 02:52:08,720
in those days with viral recorders only

4376
02:52:13,030 --> 02:52:11,279
these are guys all before your time and

4377
02:52:14,710 --> 02:52:13,040
if you recorded 15 minutes you took it

4378
02:52:17,429 --> 02:52:14,720
back to the studio and it took you 15

4379
02:52:18,269 --> 02:52:17,439
minutes to rewind

4380
02:52:29,510 --> 02:52:18,279
at

4381
02:52:30,790 --> 02:52:29,520
there was quite a clamp on on discussion

4382
02:52:33,190 --> 02:52:30,800
of this

4383
02:52:34,790 --> 02:52:33,200
and because there were people who

4384
02:52:36,790 --> 02:52:34,800
uh

4385
02:52:38,950 --> 02:52:36,800
we've all thought of people who

4386
02:52:40,790 --> 02:52:38,960
were pretty well convinced and

4387
02:52:42,870 --> 02:52:40,800
marcel was one of them and i knew all of

4388
02:52:45,110 --> 02:52:42,880
those people out of walker because we

4389
02:52:47,269 --> 02:52:45,120
had remotes out there and we did lots of

4390
02:52:51,030 --> 02:52:47,279
broadcasts out of there

4391
02:52:55,190 --> 02:52:52,389
i don't think that

4392
02:52:56,710 --> 02:52:55,200
i think we just decided that for walt

4393
02:52:59,110 --> 02:52:56,720
hot's sake

4394
02:53:01,510 --> 02:52:59,120
and so forth that we would sit tight

4395
02:53:03,510 --> 02:53:01,520
and accept whatever it was even though

4396
02:53:05,590 --> 02:53:03,520
in our innermost mind

4397
02:53:08,630 --> 02:53:05,600
we had real suddenly a real question

4398
02:53:11,590 --> 02:53:08,640
about the validity of it

4399
02:53:13,750 --> 02:53:11,600
had they ever treated a story like this

4400
02:53:18,230 --> 02:53:13,760
before had they ever created one had

4401
02:53:19,830 --> 02:53:18,240
they ever treated a story in this way oh

4402
02:53:23,429 --> 02:53:19,840
not in this particular way because this

4403
02:53:25,990 --> 02:53:23,439
was a highly unique experience however

4404
02:53:27,750 --> 02:53:26,000
as i say we were used to it because

4405
02:53:29,349 --> 02:53:27,760
if there were crashes you didn't say

4406
02:53:31,030 --> 02:53:29,359
anything about it until

4407
02:53:32,790 --> 02:53:31,040
the people have been there and all of

4408
02:53:35,590 --> 02:53:32,800
that sort of thing well yeah they they

4409
02:53:38,870 --> 02:53:35,600
embargoed yes precisely but this was a

4410
02:53:40,150 --> 02:53:38,880
total plant down well i would say so it

4411
02:53:41,429 --> 02:53:40,160
certainly was as far as we were

4412
02:53:43,750 --> 02:53:41,439
concerned

4413
02:53:47,590 --> 02:53:43,760
yeah there was no time limit

4414
02:53:52,070 --> 02:53:49,910
i can't tell you because you see i just

4415
02:53:54,469 --> 02:53:52,080
got down here in 46 when i came down

4416
02:53:55,510 --> 02:53:54,479
here from hillsborough in minneapolis

4417
02:53:57,590 --> 02:53:55,520
and

4418
02:53:59,349 --> 02:53:57,600
so i hadn't run into that sort of thing

4419
02:54:01,190 --> 02:53:59,359
there was lots of it

4420
02:54:03,190 --> 02:54:01,200
when we were in the missile site

4421
02:54:05,030 --> 02:54:03,200
business down here and so far because if

4422
02:54:06,710 --> 02:54:05,040
there was a problem

4423
02:54:07,910 --> 02:54:06,720
we were advised and we were out there

4424
02:54:09,429 --> 02:54:07,920
with our

4425
02:54:10,630 --> 02:54:09,439
blinking lights and all that sort of

4426
02:54:13,349 --> 02:54:10,640
stuff but

4427
02:54:17,750 --> 02:54:13,359
we we held we sat on those things until

4428
02:54:21,269 --> 02:54:19,030
people have asked me because there's

4429
02:54:23,110 --> 02:54:21,279
been a discussion particularly after

4430
02:54:25,349 --> 02:54:23,120
after your broadcast

4431
02:54:27,750 --> 02:54:25,359
and that that revitalized in fact i was

4432
02:54:30,230 --> 02:54:27,760
up in craig colorado last week and the

4433
02:54:32,309 --> 02:54:30,240
guy who hasn't been interested at all

4434
02:54:35,349 --> 02:54:32,319
all of a sudden he's a fan and i sent

4435
02:54:37,590 --> 02:54:35,359
him the book for more and so forth when

4436
02:54:39,990 --> 02:54:37,600
i got home here on the weekend

4437
02:54:42,550 --> 02:54:40,000
but but the point is that insofar as i

4438
02:54:43,590 --> 02:54:42,560
was concerned

4439
02:54:45,750 --> 02:54:43,600
people say

4440
02:54:47,349 --> 02:54:45,760
do you think it was true and i said

4441
02:54:49,590 --> 02:54:47,359
i don't know

4442
02:54:52,389 --> 02:54:49,600
but i'll tell you this i i it's hard for

4443
02:54:53,990 --> 02:54:52,399
me to believe that in this infinite

4444
02:54:55,030 --> 02:54:54,000
testimony small

4445
02:54:56,389 --> 02:54:55,040
area

4446
02:54:57,990 --> 02:54:56,399
of the universe

4447
02:55:00,230 --> 02:54:58,000
that we're we're the only people with

4448
02:55:01,590 --> 02:55:00,240
any intelligence

4449
02:55:03,670 --> 02:55:01,600
so if there are

4450
02:55:06,070 --> 02:55:03,680
and another thing that that interested

4451
02:55:08,469 --> 02:55:06,080
me is because i had a friend

4452
02:55:10,070 --> 02:55:08,479
who had a lot of hours

4453
02:55:11,269 --> 02:55:10,080
and i think it was northwest at that

4454
02:55:14,950 --> 02:55:11,279
time

4455
02:55:16,630 --> 02:55:14,960
and he had i don't know how many hours

4456
02:55:19,429 --> 02:55:16,640
as captain

4457
02:55:21,429 --> 02:55:19,439
and when he said he saw something off

4458
02:55:23,110 --> 02:55:21,439
the left wing

4459
02:55:24,150 --> 02:55:23,120
here's a guy who when he makes a

4460
02:55:27,190 --> 02:55:24,160
statement

4461
02:55:28,710 --> 02:55:27,200
if you're a disbeliever or an unbeliever

4462
02:55:30,630 --> 02:55:28,720
you say boy i don't want to fly with him

4463
02:55:32,469 --> 02:55:30,640
because i think he's a nut

4464
02:55:33,990 --> 02:55:32,479
so he puts his own business in jeopardy

4465
02:55:35,269 --> 02:55:34,000
as it were

4466
02:55:38,389 --> 02:55:35,279
so

4467
02:55:41,110 --> 02:55:38,399
w whitmore had razzle over knight did

4468
02:55:43,269 --> 02:55:41,120
you actually see brazzle himself

4469
02:55:45,990 --> 02:55:43,279
only when they first came in yeah

4470
02:55:47,429 --> 02:55:46,000
how did he come across you i didn't talk

4471
02:55:48,550 --> 02:55:47,439
to him very much

4472
02:55:50,309 --> 02:55:48,560
we were

4473
02:55:52,630 --> 02:55:50,319
frankly

4474
02:55:53,510 --> 02:55:52,640
we were hiding the things for halloween

4475
02:55:55,990 --> 02:55:53,520
and we

4476
02:55:57,910 --> 02:55:56,000
didn't want to make much of a stir on it

4477
02:55:59,990 --> 02:55:57,920
and whitmore lived way out on east

4478
02:56:02,070 --> 02:56:00,000
center

4479
02:56:03,670 --> 02:56:02,080
so that's that's about it

4480
02:56:05,510 --> 02:56:03,680
did um

4481
02:56:08,070 --> 02:56:05,520
uh so

4482
02:56:08,870 --> 02:56:08,080
brazil is with walt whitmore overnight

4483
02:56:10,469 --> 02:56:08,880
yeah

4484
02:56:12,230 --> 02:56:10,479
did the military come and pick him up or

4485
02:56:13,670 --> 02:56:12,240
did whitmore take him to i think he

4486
02:56:15,510 --> 02:56:13,680
turned him over

4487
02:56:18,070 --> 02:56:15,520
would it be fair to say that whitmore

4488
02:56:20,550 --> 02:56:18,080
surrendered him to the military or

4489
02:56:21,670 --> 02:56:20,560
because he was just a guest overnight

4490
02:56:24,309 --> 02:56:21,680
okay

4491
02:56:25,030 --> 02:56:24,319
so so you don't surrender a guest unless

4492
02:56:28,870 --> 02:56:25,040
your

4493
02:56:30,469 --> 02:56:28,880
name is this guy over in iraq

4494
02:56:31,269 --> 02:56:30,479
but the military was looking for him

4495
02:56:33,830 --> 02:56:31,279
though

4496
02:56:35,750 --> 02:56:33,840
i think so yeah what was that he

4497
02:56:38,469 --> 02:56:35,760
wouldn't work

4498
02:56:39,670 --> 02:56:38,479
hiding brazzle from the military or from

4499
02:56:42,630 --> 02:56:39,680
your rivals

4500
02:56:43,349 --> 02:56:42,640
he was he we just had a good story

4501
02:56:44,309 --> 02:56:43,359
so

4502
02:56:45,750 --> 02:56:44,319
whitmore was more worried about

4503
02:56:47,910 --> 02:56:45,760
protecting his story than the military

4504
02:56:49,830 --> 02:56:47,920
finding where brazil was

4505
02:56:52,389 --> 02:56:49,840
we had no reason to hide him out

4506
02:56:54,550 --> 02:56:52,399
particularly except we wanted to do some

4507
02:56:56,469 --> 02:56:54,560
talking to him first it so happened that

4508
02:56:57,429 --> 02:56:56,479
it was all for nothing because we didn't

4509
02:56:58,950 --> 02:56:57,439
use it

4510
02:57:00,710 --> 02:56:58,960
did okay so

4511
02:57:03,030 --> 02:57:00,720
that that next morning whitmore decided

4512
02:57:05,190 --> 02:57:03,040
he wanted to go out to the crash site

4513
02:57:06,309 --> 02:57:05,200
no i decided

4514
02:57:08,630 --> 02:57:06,319
because

4515
02:57:10,550 --> 02:57:08,640
they went more dead out there

4516
02:57:12,309 --> 02:57:10,560
went out to the crash site or yeah i

4517
02:57:14,309 --> 02:57:12,319
think but i don't know he couldn't get

4518
02:57:16,389 --> 02:57:14,319
any closer than i did i thought we could

4519
02:57:19,110 --> 02:57:16,399
do it with a back room or something so

4520
02:57:20,550 --> 02:57:19,120
you follow the back roads out toward

4521
02:57:21,990 --> 02:57:20,560
corona sure

4522
02:57:24,550 --> 02:57:22,000
what happened when you got out toward

4523
02:57:26,950 --> 02:57:24,560
the car they just had some road blocks

4524
02:57:29,030 --> 02:57:26,960
what was that one of the back roads

4525
02:57:31,110 --> 02:57:29,040
well they had the whole thing

4526
02:57:33,110 --> 02:57:31,120
you used the word cordon a minute ago i

4527
02:57:35,510 --> 02:57:33,120
presume that might be a pretty well i

4528
02:57:38,790 --> 02:57:35,520
didn't pay that much attention to i

4529
02:57:40,870 --> 02:57:38,800
wasn't driving we had another guy and

4530
02:57:42,309 --> 02:57:40,880
and i was more interested in just

4531
02:57:43,510 --> 02:57:42,319
getting out there and disappointed

4532
02:57:46,389 --> 02:57:43,520
because

4533
02:57:47,750 --> 02:57:46,399
believe me we didn't get close

4534
02:57:49,590 --> 02:57:47,760
you say another guy you haven't remember

4535
02:57:51,110 --> 02:57:49,600
who that was having his finest idea we

4536
02:57:53,030 --> 02:57:51,120
had about six people working for the

4537
02:57:55,190 --> 02:57:53,040
station so you went out to the to the

4538
02:57:56,150 --> 02:57:55,200
area were stopped by the

4539
02:57:58,309 --> 02:57:56,160
sure

4540
02:58:00,230 --> 02:57:58,319
what did how do they do that they just

4541
02:58:02,790 --> 02:58:00,240
say sorry the roads closed this is a

4542
02:58:06,150 --> 02:58:02,800
restricted area military men yeah we

4543
02:58:08,389 --> 02:58:06,160
were used to that um how would were they

4544
02:58:09,830 --> 02:58:08,399
within a jeep were they in a car i can't

4545
02:58:11,670 --> 02:58:09,840
imagine i imagine they're just one of

4546
02:58:12,790 --> 02:58:11,680
their blue sedans that they had

4547
02:58:15,030 --> 02:58:12,800
and

4548
02:58:17,269 --> 02:58:15,040
as you approach the fella came out on

4549
02:58:19,030 --> 02:58:17,279
the road and waved you down

4550
02:58:20,309 --> 02:58:19,040
but as a matter of fact the reason i'm

4551
02:58:22,630 --> 02:58:20,319
so vague i don't mean to be

4552
02:58:24,870 --> 02:58:22,640
intentionally is because of that thing

4553
02:58:26,790 --> 02:58:24,880
it wasn't really a big deal

4554
02:58:28,469 --> 02:58:26,800
because we've had these experiences

4555
02:58:30,469 --> 02:58:28,479
before where

4556
02:58:32,790 --> 02:58:30,479
some accident had happened and where

4557
02:58:34,870 --> 02:58:32,800
they they just kind of blocked off the

4558
02:58:37,190 --> 02:58:34,880
whole area so it was perfectly

4559
02:58:38,710 --> 02:58:37,200
reasonable as far as i was concerned

4560
02:58:40,710 --> 02:58:38,720
so you didn't get out to the site you

4561
02:58:43,190 --> 02:58:40,720
were turned around at that point came

4562
02:58:45,830 --> 02:58:43,200
back to roswell how close did you get

4563
02:58:47,429 --> 02:58:45,840
roughly i'd i'll bet i wasn't within 15

4564
02:58:49,429 --> 02:58:47,439
miles

4565
02:58:51,349 --> 02:58:49,439
i don't know i haven't any idea because

4566
02:58:54,150 --> 02:58:51,359
at that time let's say it wasn't

4567
02:58:56,070 --> 02:58:54,160
important we wanted we wanted to see the

4568
02:58:57,910 --> 02:58:56,080
stuff we'd heard about

4569
02:58:58,950 --> 02:58:57,920
and of course by that time it was all

4570
02:59:03,429 --> 02:58:58,960
picked up

4571
02:59:07,349 --> 02:59:05,750
that's about the story you say the stuff

4572
02:59:09,110 --> 02:59:07,359
you heard about

4573
02:59:10,870 --> 02:59:09,120
what did you hear what did you call them

4574
02:59:12,469 --> 02:59:10,880
well one of the things that i still

4575
02:59:13,750 --> 02:59:12,479
remember specifically is that the

4576
02:59:14,870 --> 02:59:13,760
material

4577
02:59:17,429 --> 02:59:14,880
they said

4578
02:59:19,670 --> 02:59:17,439
was as thin as a wrapper on a

4579
02:59:21,510 --> 02:59:19,680
lucky strike package

4580
02:59:23,349 --> 02:59:21,520
but you couldn't break it

4581
02:59:25,349 --> 02:59:23,359
and if you twisted it and scrunched it

4582
02:59:28,790 --> 02:59:25,359
up together it would it would come back

4583
02:59:30,309 --> 02:59:28,800
to its own deal they tried to burn it

4584
02:59:31,269 --> 02:59:30,319
and so forth

4585
02:59:33,670 --> 02:59:31,279
and

4586
02:59:36,469 --> 02:59:33,680
it was a it was a it was it was a good

4587
02:59:38,550 --> 02:59:36,479
mystery for a small town

4588
02:59:40,550 --> 02:59:38,560
but of course we had a large

4589
02:59:43,030 --> 02:59:40,560
at that particular time we had a lot of

4590
02:59:44,870 --> 02:59:43,040
military people here as you know

4591
02:59:47,190 --> 02:59:44,880
do you notice any

4592
02:59:50,309 --> 02:59:47,200
extraordinary military activity in

4593
02:59:52,790 --> 02:59:51,670
of course everybody started watching

4594
02:59:55,030 --> 02:59:52,800
this guy

4595
02:59:57,269 --> 02:59:55,040
so there was an attitude within the town

4596
03:00:00,150 --> 02:59:57,279
itself oh very aware

4597
03:00:01,830 --> 03:00:00,160
and at night my thought was

4598
03:00:03,670 --> 03:00:01,840
looking back to the old days of the

4599
03:00:05,830 --> 03:00:03,680
invasion if you remember

4600
03:00:07,590 --> 03:00:05,840
war of the worlds yeah

4601
03:00:09,429 --> 03:00:07,600
and the effect it had on people on the

4602
03:00:11,030 --> 03:00:09,439
east coast particularly

4603
03:00:13,190 --> 03:00:11,040
and i thought then perhaps maybe this

4604
03:00:15,269 --> 03:00:13,200
was a good reason i have reason not to

4605
03:00:17,190 --> 03:00:15,279
believe that it was more than just

4606
03:00:19,429 --> 03:00:17,200
protecting the public from

4607
03:00:21,429 --> 03:00:19,439
getting upset over something

4608
03:00:23,670 --> 03:00:21,439
because after that you know we got into

4609
03:00:24,710 --> 03:00:23,680
the lights and all of these sort of

4610
03:00:26,630 --> 03:00:24,720
things and

4611
03:00:28,550 --> 03:00:26,640
people that i knew who were highly

4612
03:00:30,790 --> 03:00:28,560
respectable

4613
03:00:32,150 --> 03:00:30,800
people long time guys ranchers and

4614
03:00:34,389 --> 03:00:32,160
people like that

4615
03:00:36,070 --> 03:00:34,399
who saw some of these things

4616
03:00:39,510 --> 03:00:36,080
and they had no reason to

4617
03:00:41,429 --> 03:00:39,520
they had no reason to to kid anybody

4618
03:00:42,950 --> 03:00:41,439
about standing on side of their pickup

4619
03:00:45,110 --> 03:00:42,960
and watching these lights go back and

4620
03:00:46,950 --> 03:00:45,120
forth up in the mountains

4621
03:00:48,230 --> 03:00:46,960
they're not they're not the sort of

4622
03:00:49,830 --> 03:00:48,240
people who

4623
03:00:51,670 --> 03:00:49,840
needed to do that

4624
03:00:53,190 --> 03:00:51,680
or was it their nature to be that sort

4625
03:00:54,790 --> 03:00:53,200
of person

4626
03:00:57,349 --> 03:00:54,800
around the station

4627
03:01:00,630 --> 03:00:57,359
what was the general reaction

4628
03:01:02,710 --> 03:01:00,640
to the weather bulletin story

4629
03:01:04,469 --> 03:01:02,720
well the weather balloons were being

4630
03:01:06,550 --> 03:01:04,479
launched about a block from us every

4631
03:01:08,389 --> 03:01:06,560
night

4632
03:01:09,750 --> 03:01:08,399
from the because they did that when they

4633
03:01:12,230 --> 03:01:09,760
um

4634
03:01:14,230 --> 03:01:12,240
they did that with the

4635
03:01:15,750 --> 03:01:14,240
weather bureau at that time that's how

4636
03:01:18,630 --> 03:01:15,760
they got their readings

4637
03:01:20,950 --> 03:01:18,640
so weather balloons per se were not that

4638
03:01:23,510 --> 03:01:20,960
not that interesting to us

4639
03:01:25,590 --> 03:01:23,520
so you didn't buy that

4640
03:01:27,110 --> 03:01:25,600
explanation we really did it

4641
03:01:28,230 --> 03:01:27,120
but we didn't have any good reason

4642
03:01:29,910 --> 03:01:28,240
because

4643
03:01:31,269 --> 03:01:29,920
that material was scattered out there as

4644
03:01:32,309 --> 03:01:31,279
you well know

4645
03:01:35,190 --> 03:01:32,319
and

4646
03:01:37,030 --> 03:01:35,200
it wasn't like being able to see it

4647
03:01:38,389 --> 03:01:37,040
where something goes down and there's a

4648
03:01:40,950 --> 03:01:38,399
hell of an explosion and there's an

4649
03:01:42,790 --> 03:01:40,960
exact dark place

4650
03:01:44,230 --> 03:01:42,800
did you ever have occasion to talk to

4651
03:01:46,230 --> 03:01:44,240
say colonel blanchard or any of the

4652
03:01:48,550 --> 03:01:46,240
people out at the base after this event

4653
03:01:49,990 --> 03:01:48,560
and subsequent years and learn anything

4654
03:01:53,030 --> 03:01:50,000
from them maybe they said something to

4655
03:01:55,269 --> 03:01:53,040
you oh i don't think so

4656
03:01:56,950 --> 03:01:55,279
bill blanchard was

4657
03:01:59,349 --> 03:01:56,960
one of the first guys i knew out there

4658
03:02:01,910 --> 03:01:59,359
because he had served him under my uncle

4659
03:02:04,469 --> 03:02:01,920
who was a general in the air force in

4660
03:02:06,309 --> 03:02:04,479
fact we had four guys out there who were

4661
03:02:08,870 --> 03:02:06,319
commanders who had all been

4662
03:02:11,030 --> 03:02:08,880
students under him down at what used to

4663
03:02:13,030 --> 03:02:11,040
be kelly

4664
03:02:15,190 --> 03:02:13,040
down in san antonio

4665
03:02:17,510 --> 03:02:15,200
so i always made an appointment to meet

4666
03:02:19,750 --> 03:02:17,520
those people because they're nice people

4667
03:02:22,389 --> 03:02:19,760
and we entertain them a few times and

4668
03:02:24,469 --> 03:02:22,399
they we go in there for a drink or

4669
03:02:26,870 --> 03:02:24,479
something on occasion

4670
03:02:30,309 --> 03:02:26,880
but no no we didn't discuss it and i

4671
03:02:32,150 --> 03:02:30,319
don't know why we didn't because

4672
03:02:38,150 --> 03:02:32,160
that would have been the time to

4673
03:02:43,510 --> 03:02:40,230
after

4674
03:02:44,389 --> 03:02:43,520
whitmore turned razzle over

4675
03:02:45,670 --> 03:02:44,399
the military

4676
03:02:47,670 --> 03:02:45,680
yeah

4677
03:02:50,230 --> 03:02:47,680
you saw him after this did you ever did

4678
03:02:52,309 --> 03:02:50,240
i say rob you saw it for a second oh

4679
03:02:54,309 --> 03:02:52,319
[\h__\h]

4680
03:02:56,389 --> 03:02:54,319
the first chance you had to ask him

4681
03:02:59,269 --> 03:02:56,399
about

4682
03:03:02,550 --> 03:02:59,279
why you're recording

4683
03:03:05,429 --> 03:03:02,560
i do not know in retrospect why i didn't

4684
03:03:06,309 --> 03:03:05,439
i just figured it was a dead story

4685
03:03:07,830 --> 03:03:06,319
and

4686
03:03:10,150 --> 03:03:07,840
what it's saying is that whitmore never

4687
03:03:12,389 --> 03:03:10,160
told you what the rancher said

4688
03:03:14,870 --> 03:03:12,399
oh he did this just plain discussion but

4689
03:03:16,870 --> 03:03:14,880
but the rancher didn't say much

4690
03:03:19,190 --> 03:03:16,880
the rancher really said hey i was out

4691
03:03:20,630 --> 03:03:19,200
and i was riding and i saw this and this

4692
03:03:22,150 --> 03:03:20,640
is what it looked like and i couldn't

4693
03:03:23,990 --> 03:03:22,160
figure out what it was

4694
03:03:26,150 --> 03:03:24,000
and so i came to town to tell some

4695
03:03:26,950 --> 03:03:26,160
people and mentioned it to some people

4696
03:03:29,110 --> 03:03:26,960
and

4697
03:03:30,950 --> 03:03:29,120
pretty soon there's great interest

4698
03:03:32,550 --> 03:03:30,960
and so i don't think that

4699
03:03:35,269 --> 03:03:32,560
he himself

4700
03:03:36,630 --> 03:03:35,279
went in there and did a lot of

4701
03:03:38,830 --> 03:03:36,640
pseudo

4702
03:03:41,269 --> 03:03:38,840
scientific experiments with this

4703
03:03:42,309 --> 03:03:41,279
material there were all sorts of story

4704
03:03:44,469 --> 03:03:42,319
about

4705
03:03:46,710 --> 03:03:44,479
bodies being loaded into planes and all

4706
03:03:49,110 --> 03:03:46,720
that sort of stuff and part of the first

4707
03:03:51,510 --> 03:03:49,120
that first bunch went right down to

4708
03:03:53,670 --> 03:03:51,520
fort worth to carson

4709
03:03:55,830 --> 03:03:53,680
the rest of them i understood went back

4710
03:03:57,269 --> 03:03:55,840
to uh

4711
03:03:58,870 --> 03:03:57,279
who's at akron

4712
03:04:00,230 --> 03:03:58,880
i mean dayton

4713
03:04:01,429 --> 03:04:00,240
yeah

4714
03:04:05,190 --> 03:04:01,439
do you say others you mean other

4715
03:04:07,110 --> 03:04:05,200
aircraft or yeah the presumption was

4716
03:04:08,870 --> 03:04:07,120
do you hear any bizarre stories of

4717
03:04:12,469 --> 03:04:08,880
aliens running loose in roswell at the

4718
03:04:14,469 --> 03:04:12,479
time or anything like that no we did not

4719
03:04:17,190 --> 03:04:14,479
we probably would we've probably been

4720
03:04:19,670 --> 03:04:17,200
too scared to notice

4721
03:04:26,070 --> 03:04:19,680
after all that was all free e.t and we

4722
03:04:29,910 --> 03:04:28,230
so basically

4723
03:04:31,590 --> 03:04:29,920
all you really know is a little bit of

4724
03:04:32,790 --> 03:04:31,600
what more told you

4725
03:04:35,030 --> 03:04:32,800
about the ranch you're finding the

4726
03:04:36,550 --> 03:04:35,040
debris coming into town

4727
03:04:38,469 --> 03:04:36,560
and then attempting yourself to go out

4728
03:04:39,750 --> 03:04:38,479
to the site being turned back and

4729
03:04:41,510 --> 03:04:39,760
receiving the phone call now you sure it

4730
03:04:43,349 --> 03:04:41,520
was clinton anderson's office and not oh

4731
03:04:44,630 --> 03:04:43,359
you know but i would assume so he's

4732
03:04:46,469 --> 03:04:44,640
their senator

4733
03:04:48,389 --> 03:04:46,479
could have been dennis chavez oh well it

4734
03:04:49,429 --> 03:04:48,399
could have been dennis chambers for sure

4735
03:04:51,110 --> 03:04:49,439
so

4736
03:04:52,150 --> 03:04:51,120
from what i was good enough for us

4737
03:04:54,070 --> 03:04:52,160
because

4738
03:04:55,990 --> 03:04:54,080
at that particular time you didn't go

4739
03:04:57,269 --> 03:04:56,000
around wrestling with the fcc if you

4740
03:04:59,110 --> 03:04:57,279
could help it

4741
03:05:00,070 --> 03:04:59,120
they gave you enough trouble on other

4742
03:05:01,910 --> 03:05:00,080
things

4743
03:05:05,670 --> 03:05:01,920
sitting out on a hill and monitoring you

4744
03:05:07,110 --> 03:05:05,680
and a lousy 250 watts at that time

4745
03:05:09,830 --> 03:05:07,120
to make sure you weren't putting out bad

4746
03:05:12,070 --> 03:05:09,840
information all that information and our

4747
03:05:13,349 --> 03:05:12,080
or ascap was out there trying to find if

4748
03:05:15,030 --> 03:05:13,359
we were playing some of their stuff and

4749
03:05:16,790 --> 03:05:15,040
not recording it

4750
03:05:18,550 --> 03:05:16,800
so we had all the government that we

4751
03:05:20,870 --> 03:05:18,560
needed

4752
03:05:23,429 --> 03:05:20,880
any information about the ranch or

4753
03:05:24,870 --> 03:05:23,439
in the next couple days

4754
03:05:30,550 --> 03:05:24,880
no

4755
03:05:34,230 --> 03:05:30,560
did you have impression where he was

4756
03:05:37,030 --> 03:05:34,240
i do not recall if it's very possible

4757
03:05:38,950 --> 03:05:37,040
and all i know he didn't come back into

4758
03:05:41,429 --> 03:05:38,960
the station or anything like that did

4759
03:05:42,630 --> 03:05:41,439
you ever see brazil after that i never

4760
03:05:44,710 --> 03:05:42,640
did

4761
03:05:47,030 --> 03:05:44,720
that's not unusual these guys all live

4762
03:05:48,950 --> 03:05:47,040
hell and gone away as you know

4763
03:05:51,590 --> 03:05:48,960
and

4764
03:05:55,429 --> 03:05:51,600
we were busy at that time

4765
03:05:57,110 --> 03:05:55,439
and i had a small small staff and

4766
03:06:00,950 --> 03:05:57,120
three or four guys working from the base

4767
03:06:03,510 --> 03:06:00,960
who were working part time and so forth

4768
03:06:05,990 --> 03:06:03,520
and it was it

4769
03:06:07,910 --> 03:06:06,000
as i say in retrospect

4770
03:06:09,670 --> 03:06:07,920
we'd if we'd had any idea

4771
03:06:11,590 --> 03:06:09,680
what we had if what general interest

4772
03:06:12,710 --> 03:06:11,600
there would be

4773
03:06:14,309 --> 03:06:12,720
why that

4774
03:06:15,910 --> 03:06:14,319
then it would have been easy and we

4775
03:06:19,110 --> 03:06:15,920
would have

4776
03:06:21,429 --> 03:06:19,120
said let's see if we can find out this

4777
03:06:22,389 --> 03:06:21,439
and then put two or two together and get

4778
03:06:24,150 --> 03:06:22,399
something

4779
03:06:25,349 --> 03:06:24,160
did the military ever come by the

4780
03:06:26,950 --> 03:06:25,359
station to

4781
03:06:29,670 --> 03:06:26,960
pick up press releases or anything like

4782
03:06:30,870 --> 03:06:29,680
that no indications the military came

4783
03:06:32,389 --> 03:06:30,880
back to

4784
03:06:34,790 --> 03:06:32,399
make sure there was nothing left behind

4785
03:06:38,150 --> 03:06:34,800
that might

4786
03:06:41,349 --> 03:06:38,160
no no i don't think so because we were

4787
03:06:44,309 --> 03:06:41,359
very close to the bio part

4788
03:06:45,910 --> 03:06:44,319
and because they were a source of news

4789
03:06:47,590 --> 03:06:45,920
and

4790
03:06:49,830 --> 03:06:47,600
even if they had why i don't think it

4791
03:06:52,150 --> 03:06:49,840
would have been a great mental note

4792
03:07:01,269 --> 03:06:52,160
after all of these years because it was

4793
03:07:04,550 --> 03:07:03,269
through the years

4794
03:07:05,830 --> 03:07:04,560
and certainly

4795
03:07:06,710 --> 03:07:05,840
since

4796
03:07:09,429 --> 03:07:06,720
the

4797
03:07:10,870 --> 03:07:09,439
resurrection

4798
03:07:13,190 --> 03:07:10,880
story

4799
03:07:16,790 --> 03:07:13,200
stories involved

4800
03:07:18,790 --> 03:07:16,800
any people that you've talked to any

4801
03:07:20,950 --> 03:07:18,800
former colleagues or anyone else that

4802
03:07:22,870 --> 03:07:20,960
ever voiced an opinion

4803
03:07:24,630 --> 03:07:22,880
or related any

4804
03:07:26,309 --> 03:07:24,640
tidbits of information

4805
03:07:27,910 --> 03:07:26,319
oh that i didn't have

4806
03:07:30,230 --> 03:07:27,920
no because it was usually do you believe

4807
03:07:32,630 --> 03:07:30,240
this stuff

4808
03:07:34,790 --> 03:07:32,640
and it so happened that that

4809
03:07:36,469 --> 03:07:34,800
i believed it to some extent

4810
03:07:38,389 --> 03:07:36,479
at that time and then

4811
03:07:40,469 --> 03:07:38,399
ultimately i just felt

4812
03:07:43,670 --> 03:07:40,479
more and more

4813
03:07:46,950 --> 03:07:43,680
this was a possibility

4814
03:07:55,910 --> 03:07:47,750
it

4815
03:07:57,510 --> 03:07:55,920
so you

4816
03:08:00,469 --> 03:07:57,520
you weren't that concerned that the

4817
03:08:02,550 --> 03:08:00,479
military came in and suggested that you

4818
03:08:05,830 --> 03:08:02,560
not release the story that sort of thing

4819
03:08:07,429 --> 03:08:05,840
happened on a regular basis

4820
03:08:09,349 --> 03:08:07,439
it was an aircraft accident or maybe

4821
03:08:11,030 --> 03:08:09,359
something that well see we were trying

4822
03:08:13,110 --> 03:08:11,040
to cover all of that stuff at the local

4823
03:08:14,790 --> 03:08:13,120
level because that's what we had

4824
03:08:16,070 --> 03:08:14,800
that's all we had

4825
03:08:16,870 --> 03:08:16,080
and

4826
03:08:18,950 --> 03:08:16,880
so

4827
03:08:21,030 --> 03:08:18,960
and the two stations which i was

4828
03:08:23,269 --> 03:08:21,040
associated over a period of time we

4829
03:08:25,750 --> 03:08:23,279
always had mobile units and we always

4830
03:08:27,590 --> 03:08:25,760
had we could broadcast and so forth and

4831
03:08:29,830 --> 03:08:27,600
even in those days

4832
03:08:32,950 --> 03:08:29,840
if there was a story why we chased it

4833
03:08:36,070 --> 03:08:34,309
but for for this one you didn't really

4834
03:08:37,510 --> 03:08:36,080
think there was a story

4835
03:08:40,630 --> 03:08:37,520
because i didn't think we were going to

4836
03:08:41,910 --> 03:08:40,640
be able to do anything about it

4837
03:08:43,590 --> 03:08:41,920
i thought that

4838
03:08:46,389 --> 03:08:43,600
whatever they were going to whatever

4839
03:08:48,710 --> 03:08:46,399
they were going to report because their

4840
03:08:51,510 --> 03:08:48,720
question was in many minds here

4841
03:08:53,510 --> 03:08:51,520
that whatever they were going to report

4842
03:08:54,389 --> 03:08:53,520
that's what that's what we would tell

4843
03:08:56,070 --> 03:08:54,399
them

4844
03:09:00,309 --> 03:08:56,080
so the people would know there was no

4845
03:09:05,269 --> 03:09:04,070
no because we really didn't have a story

4846
03:09:08,870 --> 03:09:05,279
we had

4847
03:09:10,950 --> 03:09:08,880
a discussion with a guy who had found

4848
03:09:14,389 --> 03:09:10,960
some stuff and

4849
03:09:17,670 --> 03:09:14,399
they they did a good job of closing that

4850
03:09:19,510 --> 03:09:17,680
thing up i think mark still was out of

4851
03:09:22,309 --> 03:09:19,520
here in

4852
03:09:23,750 --> 03:09:22,319
i don't know four or five days i imagine

4853
03:09:25,830 --> 03:09:23,760
there was there were some people that

4854
03:09:27,349 --> 03:09:25,840
were shipped out

4855
03:09:29,910 --> 03:09:27,359
maybe they were maybe that had been

4856
03:09:32,469 --> 03:09:29,920
planned for 90 days but the coincidence

4857
03:09:39,429 --> 03:09:32,479
of it made people say boy

4858
03:09:48,309 --> 03:09:41,269
was there much talk among the

4859
03:09:51,510 --> 03:09:49,830
the most exciting thing that happened

4860
03:09:53,670 --> 03:09:51,520
since

4861
03:09:57,670 --> 03:09:53,680
they sold the prized bull at the 4-h

4862
03:10:02,309 --> 03:09:59,830
covering all the big news yes i mean

4863
03:10:04,950 --> 03:10:02,319
secondary secondary story but

4864
03:10:07,349 --> 03:10:04,960
next to the global

4865
03:10:09,590 --> 03:10:07,359
was there any general tone

4866
03:10:10,870 --> 03:10:09,600
to the public reaction

4867
03:10:13,190 --> 03:10:10,880
that they believe that they didn't

4868
03:10:15,110 --> 03:10:13,200
believe it whatever

4869
03:10:16,550 --> 03:10:15,120
i wouldn't i wouldn't have any idea

4870
03:10:18,389 --> 03:10:16,560
because

4871
03:10:19,429 --> 03:10:18,399
nobody wrote a poll or anything like

4872
03:10:23,510 --> 03:10:19,439
that

4873
03:10:25,590 --> 03:10:23,520
there were some people who said

4874
03:10:27,349 --> 03:10:25,600
boy this must be a big story or they

4875
03:10:29,030 --> 03:10:27,359
wouldn't have made such an effort

4876
03:10:31,110 --> 03:10:29,040
and others who said

4877
03:10:32,950 --> 03:10:31,120
some nut

4878
03:10:34,309 --> 03:10:32,960
i saw whether there was a weather rule

4879
03:10:35,910 --> 03:10:34,319
and that's good enough for me if they

4880
03:10:36,950 --> 03:10:35,920
told me it was a winner but all night

4881
03:10:38,710 --> 03:10:36,960
george

4882
03:10:41,590 --> 03:10:38,720
which side were you on

4883
03:10:44,070 --> 03:10:41,600
i was in the middle between at that time

4884
03:10:46,630 --> 03:10:44,080
i have obviously gone to the

4885
03:10:47,510 --> 03:10:46,640
pro there was such a thing

4886
03:10:49,429 --> 03:10:47,520
now

4887
03:10:51,590 --> 03:10:49,439
but only on the basis of

4888
03:10:54,630 --> 03:10:51,600
a small

4889
03:10:56,630 --> 03:10:54,640
small bore logic that has to repeat

4890
03:10:57,990 --> 03:10:56,640
myself

4891
03:11:00,630 --> 03:10:58,000
if if

4892
03:11:01,910 --> 03:11:00,640
if we think with this little dot

4893
03:11:03,590 --> 03:11:01,920
it's getting

4894
03:11:05,110 --> 03:11:03,600
smaller and smaller all the time even

4895
03:11:06,309 --> 03:11:05,120
though this thing isn't working too well

4896
03:11:08,950 --> 03:11:06,319
up there now

4897
03:11:11,349 --> 03:11:08,960
but the fact is that

4898
03:11:13,510 --> 03:11:11,359
for us to consider the fact that we are

4899
03:11:15,510 --> 03:11:13,520
the only people with the intelligence to

4900
03:11:17,110 --> 03:11:15,520
do that and there's been so much stuff

4901
03:11:19,030 --> 03:11:17,120
to the contrary

4902
03:11:20,750 --> 03:11:19,040
since those days

4903
03:11:22,950 --> 03:11:20,760
that uh

4904
03:11:24,469 --> 03:11:22,960
i don't know

4905
03:11:26,229 --> 03:11:24,479
all i know is

4906
03:11:28,229 --> 03:11:26,239
i think that

4907
03:11:29,510 --> 03:11:28,239
to keep repeating myself which i don't

4908
03:11:31,910 --> 03:11:29,520
mean to do

4909
03:11:33,990 --> 03:11:31,920
but you can cut an episode

4910
03:11:36,790 --> 03:11:34,000
but the point is that why should we

4911
03:11:38,550 --> 03:11:36,800
think in this in this little weensy part

4912
03:11:40,389 --> 03:11:38,560
of the universe that we're the only

4913
03:11:42,309 --> 03:11:40,399
people who are ever created with any

4914
03:11:44,150 --> 03:11:42,319
intelligence

4915
03:11:45,349 --> 03:11:44,160
i know people who think there are

4916
03:11:47,349 --> 03:11:45,359
there are other

4917
03:11:48,630 --> 03:11:47,359
intelligences in space that are perhaps

4918
03:11:51,030 --> 03:11:48,640
way ahead of us

4919
03:11:52,710 --> 03:11:51,040
and this might have been maybe somebody

4920
03:11:55,990 --> 03:11:52,720
came down and said hey we saw some

4921
03:11:58,710 --> 03:11:56,000
flares down on that little old place

4922
03:12:00,469 --> 03:11:58,720
over here on the on the atomic test

4923
03:12:01,990 --> 03:12:00,479
we saw some flares we thought we'd send

4924
03:12:03,670 --> 03:12:02,000
somebody down and take a look see what

4925
03:12:05,030 --> 03:12:03,680
was going

4926
03:12:07,590 --> 03:12:05,040
and so they did and they had the

4927
03:12:09,030 --> 03:12:07,600
misfortune to do some bad navigating or

4928
03:12:11,590 --> 03:12:09,040
something

4929
03:12:15,750 --> 03:12:11,600
well that's a new way of putting it

4930
03:12:17,110 --> 03:12:15,760
how did you know which ranch to go to

4931
03:12:18,309 --> 03:12:17,120
because we talked to the guy when it

4932
03:12:20,229 --> 03:12:18,319
came to tunnel

4933
03:12:22,389 --> 03:12:20,239
and he actually told you he gave you

4934
03:12:24,550 --> 03:12:22,399
directions or told you oh

4935
03:12:26,550 --> 03:12:24,560
all these old-timers knew were exactly

4936
03:12:28,229 --> 03:12:26,560
where the ranch was everybody knew where

4937
03:12:32,389 --> 03:12:28,239
all of these branches were

4938
03:12:38,630 --> 03:12:36,469
no it uh i was i was busy in the station

4939
03:12:41,349 --> 03:12:38,640
and that was a very busy

4940
03:12:43,830 --> 03:12:41,359
seven day a week job because

4941
03:12:45,349 --> 03:12:43,840
we covered sports and recovered this and

4942
03:12:47,429 --> 03:12:45,359
we covered that and i did all the

4943
03:12:49,269 --> 03:12:47,439
selling of all the advertising but

4944
03:12:50,150 --> 03:12:49,279
little there was

4945
03:12:51,910 --> 03:12:50,160
and

4946
03:12:54,229 --> 03:12:51,920
so it uh

4947
03:12:55,670 --> 03:12:54,239
my job was was to stay right there and

4948
03:12:59,349 --> 03:12:55,680
run the thing

4949
03:13:01,830 --> 03:12:59,359
button himself was an absent key owner

4950
03:13:06,630 --> 03:13:01,840
and

4951
03:13:10,469 --> 03:13:08,389
looks like that's it then

4952
03:13:12,830 --> 03:13:10,479
is this deposition over there i believe

4953
03:13:12,950 --> 03:13:12,840
so i think you've done a heck of

4954
03:13:15,510 --> 03:13:12,960
job turn this off for you how's that

4955
03:13:15,520 --> 03:13:18,229
right

4956
03:13:18,239 --> 03:13:22,790
were they in your program

4957
03:13:27,190 --> 03:13:25,190
they thought they they they never bought

4958
03:13:30,309 --> 03:13:27,200
the idea that it was a reflection from

4959
03:13:31,990 --> 03:13:30,319
somebody's glasses down on the ground

4960
03:13:33,269 --> 03:13:32,000
i'm just putting the date on this now so

4961
03:13:35,429 --> 03:13:33,279
that we've got a picture of you with the

4962
03:13:37,190 --> 03:13:35,439
dates

4963
03:13:39,670 --> 03:13:37,200
well i wish i could be more helpful

4964
03:13:40,710 --> 03:13:39,680
because i'd love to see you guys come up

4965
03:13:43,110 --> 03:13:40,720
with some

4966
03:13:44,710 --> 03:13:43,120
some real solutions if you could find it

4967
03:13:46,389 --> 03:13:44,720
we're getting there

4968
03:13:49,190 --> 03:13:46,399
all right putting the little bitty

4969
03:13:50,710 --> 03:13:49,200
pieces together

4970
03:13:52,790 --> 03:13:50,720
timeline together

4971
03:13:54,550 --> 03:13:52,800
which is why your story is important

4972
03:13:56,469 --> 03:13:54,560
because you have a couple of little

4973
03:13:58,550 --> 03:13:56,479
pieces that help fit it into the whole

4974
03:14:00,150 --> 03:13:58,560
chronology

4975
03:14:01,910 --> 03:14:00,160
i can never convince you how important

4976
03:14:04,070 --> 03:14:01,920
story is to us

4977
03:14:06,070 --> 03:14:04,080
well i i realize because

4978
03:14:07,910 --> 03:14:06,080
because i'm i'm

4979
03:14:11,030 --> 03:14:07,920
i'm impressed that

4980
03:14:12,950 --> 03:14:11,040
you are willing to take the pieces

4981
03:14:14,710 --> 03:14:12,960
but that's that thing is pretty well

4982
03:14:17,349 --> 03:14:14,720
shattered out you've got to pick them up

4983
03:14:19,349 --> 03:14:17,359
don't you it's shattered and it's old

4984
03:14:21,830 --> 03:14:19,359
oh yes that's the big problem

4985
03:14:24,229 --> 03:14:21,840
hallucination

4986
03:14:26,150 --> 03:14:24,239
i know i thought well we're we're

4987
03:14:27,910 --> 03:14:26,160
rolling now we've got the tape going so

4988
03:14:29,990 --> 03:14:27,920
you're mrs lydon strickland marion

4989
03:14:31,349 --> 03:14:30,000
strickland yes and we're here in roswell

4990
03:14:33,670 --> 03:14:31,359
new mexico

4991
03:14:36,229 --> 03:14:33,680
uh again september 27th which it says

4992
03:14:39,590 --> 03:14:36,239
right there on the uh official thing

4993
03:14:40,790 --> 03:14:39,600
and we'll turn that off

4994
03:14:43,349 --> 03:14:40,800
and so

4995
03:14:47,910 --> 03:14:45,990
you were saying you knew mac razzle yeah

4996
03:14:50,870 --> 03:14:47,920
he was a neighbor yes

4997
03:14:52,790 --> 03:14:50,880
and uh you lived out near his ranch in

4998
03:14:55,670 --> 03:14:52,800
the summer of nights the ranches joined

4999
03:14:57,750 --> 03:14:55,680
on corner they cornered okay in which

5000
03:15:00,790 --> 03:14:57,760
direction

5001
03:15:01,670 --> 03:15:00,800
it was south east of corona

5002
03:15:05,269 --> 03:15:01,680
and

5003
03:15:10,309 --> 03:15:07,910
in the same direction southeast

5004
03:15:12,710 --> 03:15:10,319
of corona

5005
03:15:14,070 --> 03:15:12,720
so you were farther from corona than mac

5006
03:15:19,269 --> 03:15:14,080
west

5007
03:15:19,279 --> 03:15:23,990
that ranch belonged to the foster center

5008
03:15:32,150 --> 03:15:27,030
you knew matt how long

5009
03:15:36,710 --> 03:15:35,349
we moved there in 1939

5010
03:15:37,830 --> 03:15:36,720
and

5011
03:15:41,429 --> 03:15:37,840
i had

5012
03:15:45,030 --> 03:15:43,269
excuse me

5013
03:15:47,429 --> 03:15:45,040
can we help you out with anything there

5014
03:15:49,750 --> 03:15:47,439
turn that off yes back on no that's okay

5015
03:15:52,309 --> 03:15:49,760
we were talking about matt brown well we

5016
03:15:55,110 --> 03:15:52,319
moved there in 39 and i had

5017
03:15:56,389 --> 03:15:55,120
my youngest child was only three or four

5018
03:15:58,229 --> 03:15:56,399
months old

5019
03:16:00,389 --> 03:15:58,239
and i didn't get around to meet

5020
03:16:03,910 --> 03:16:00,399
neighbors but my husband did

5021
03:16:05,990 --> 03:16:03,920
and he out of a new mac from

5022
03:16:09,590 --> 03:16:06,000
very soon after we went there we bought

5023
03:16:12,870 --> 03:16:11,190
so

5024
03:16:14,550 --> 03:16:12,880
matt came by

5025
03:16:16,229 --> 03:16:14,560
he would stop

5026
03:16:19,510 --> 03:16:16,239
and

5027
03:16:20,710 --> 03:16:19,520
came in the house

5028
03:16:22,229 --> 03:16:20,720
i just

5029
03:16:24,389 --> 03:16:22,239
knew who he was

5030
03:16:27,030 --> 03:16:24,399
he's a very friendly guy

5031
03:16:28,389 --> 03:16:27,040
yes he was

5032
03:16:29,389 --> 03:16:28,399
a very

5033
03:16:31,030 --> 03:16:29,399
uh

5034
03:16:32,150 --> 03:16:31,040
self-sufficient

5035
03:16:35,510 --> 03:16:32,160
country

5036
03:16:41,550 --> 03:16:37,110
he was

5037
03:16:45,670 --> 03:16:43,429
self-confident

5038
03:16:55,670 --> 03:16:45,680
he was not

5039
03:17:00,150 --> 03:16:58,309
moving ahead to the summer of 1947

5040
03:17:01,110 --> 03:17:00,160
leaping right ahead

5041
03:17:02,229 --> 03:17:01,120
um

5042
03:17:05,429 --> 03:17:02,239
you're of course aware of the events

5043
03:17:07,269 --> 03:17:05,439
that took place in july of 47 yes

5044
03:17:08,550 --> 03:17:07,279
now you have no personal knowledge of

5045
03:17:10,550 --> 03:17:08,560
what happened

5046
03:17:11,750 --> 03:17:10,560
you didn't see anything

5047
03:17:14,150 --> 03:17:11,760
you didn't go to the crash site or

5048
03:17:16,630 --> 03:17:14,160
anything like that no

5049
03:17:18,070 --> 03:17:16,640
no i think mack went to uh

5050
03:17:20,790 --> 03:17:18,080
see we were

5051
03:17:23,510 --> 03:17:20,800
on a spur that was off of the main line

5052
03:17:24,710 --> 03:17:23,520
that went from the foster ranch to

5053
03:17:30,070 --> 03:17:24,720
corona

5054
03:17:30,080 --> 03:17:32,389
uh

5055
03:17:39,030 --> 03:17:35,590
he would have gone by the

5056
03:17:40,550 --> 03:17:39,040
raptors and sophomores first just on the

5057
03:17:42,870 --> 03:17:40,560
way to town

5058
03:17:44,389 --> 03:17:42,880
but he would come out of his way to come

5059
03:17:47,429 --> 03:17:44,399
by our place

5060
03:17:49,910 --> 03:17:47,439
but he came by and told us about it and

5061
03:17:51,750 --> 03:17:49,920
probably tried to get lemon to go down

5062
03:17:55,110 --> 03:17:51,760
and look at it

5063
03:17:56,950 --> 03:17:55,120
sally said he she now sally is your

5064
03:17:58,870 --> 03:17:56,960
daughter yes okay

5065
03:18:00,630 --> 03:17:58,880
we have two sons but they're both

5066
03:18:03,990 --> 03:18:00,640
deceased

5067
03:18:05,910 --> 03:18:04,000
and uh she thought that

5068
03:18:06,950 --> 03:18:05,920
she could remember him

5069
03:18:09,590 --> 03:18:06,960
wanting

5070
03:18:13,269 --> 03:18:09,600
lyman and the boys to come down and the

5071
03:18:17,750 --> 03:18:13,279
kids she was one of the boys

5072
03:18:19,590 --> 03:18:18,790
she

5073
03:18:20,550 --> 03:18:19,600
said

5074
03:18:24,870 --> 03:18:20,560
that

5075
03:18:27,030 --> 03:18:24,880
if it was dry

5076
03:18:30,630 --> 03:18:27,040
and it was dry more than it was

5077
03:18:33,190 --> 03:18:31,670
they were

5078
03:18:36,229 --> 03:18:33,200
feeding or

5079
03:18:37,830 --> 03:18:36,239
marking lambs or one planting

5080
03:18:40,229 --> 03:18:37,840
now you said you'd heard do you remember

5081
03:18:43,910 --> 03:18:40,239
the thunderstorm or oh yes

5082
03:18:48,630 --> 03:18:46,070
this is the house that was built later

5083
03:18:51,830 --> 03:18:48,640
we had a little old dinky shack

5084
03:18:54,389 --> 03:18:51,840
that had a a porch that

5085
03:18:56,790 --> 03:18:54,399
wasn't any wider than that

5086
03:18:58,389 --> 03:18:56,800
and uh

5087
03:19:00,630 --> 03:18:58,399
my husband

5088
03:19:02,790 --> 03:19:00,640
they're all ranchers go out on the porch

5089
03:19:05,910 --> 03:19:02,800
to see where it's raining

5090
03:19:07,830 --> 03:19:05,920
how much and who got some

5091
03:19:09,830 --> 03:19:07,840
and he had to stand out there and see

5092
03:19:11,269 --> 03:19:09,840
where it was raining and there was so

5093
03:19:12,550 --> 03:19:11,279
much thunder

5094
03:19:15,349 --> 03:19:12,560
and

5095
03:19:17,349 --> 03:19:15,359
enlightening that um

5096
03:19:18,870 --> 03:19:17,359
i begged him to come in the house and

5097
03:19:20,309 --> 03:19:18,880
finally there was this terrible

5098
03:19:22,630 --> 03:19:20,319
thunderclap

5099
03:19:23,750 --> 03:19:22,640
and he came in and he says boy that hit

5100
03:19:25,830 --> 03:19:23,760
something

5101
03:19:27,590 --> 03:19:25,840
you know it has a different sound

5102
03:19:29,269 --> 03:19:27,600
it has a hollow sound

5103
03:19:30,710 --> 03:19:29,279
so he thought lightning instructs

5104
03:19:33,670 --> 03:19:30,720
something yes

5105
03:19:35,429 --> 03:19:33,680
and uh it was two or three days after

5106
03:19:37,429 --> 03:19:35,439
that that

5107
03:19:41,110 --> 03:19:37,439
you know it was longer than that

5108
03:19:42,950 --> 03:19:41,120
it was a week or two did um

5109
03:19:44,309 --> 03:19:42,960
he didn't see the lightning hit anything

5110
03:19:46,469 --> 03:19:44,319
he just no

5111
03:19:49,429 --> 03:19:46,479
that's hilly country

5112
03:19:51,910 --> 03:19:49,439
and the clouds were hanging low

5113
03:19:52,630 --> 03:19:51,920
they were they were pretty low

5114
03:19:53,670 --> 03:19:52,640
so

5115
03:19:55,670 --> 03:19:53,680
then you

5116
03:19:57,190 --> 03:19:55,680
and lyman nobody went over with mac to

5117
03:19:59,110 --> 03:19:57,200
see the

5118
03:20:01,269 --> 03:19:59,120
stuff no

5119
03:20:02,630 --> 03:20:01,279
uh mack went to the proctors and maybe

5120
03:20:04,150 --> 03:20:02,640
the salt tomorrow i don't know if he

5121
03:20:06,790 --> 03:20:04,160
went there

5122
03:20:11,030 --> 03:20:08,630
they didn't go down there with him i

5123
03:20:12,469 --> 03:20:11,040
guess everybody was busy and matt

5124
03:20:14,469 --> 03:20:12,479
thought it was a

5125
03:20:17,269 --> 03:20:14,479
weather balloon or some sort of an

5126
03:20:19,269 --> 03:20:17,279
experiment that he was

5127
03:20:21,190 --> 03:20:19,279
glad to do the government a favor to

5128
03:20:21,910 --> 03:20:21,200
bring him to pieces

5129
03:20:24,870 --> 03:20:21,920
and

5130
03:20:27,429 --> 03:20:24,880
that's actually the attitude he had when

5131
03:20:29,750 --> 03:20:27,439
he gathered it up and took it to town

5132
03:20:33,030 --> 03:20:29,760
so he went she brought it into roswell

5133
03:20:35,349 --> 03:20:33,040
when you say town roswell yes

5134
03:20:37,110 --> 03:20:35,359
and what happened to him in roswell did

5135
03:20:39,830 --> 03:20:37,120
ever talk to you about that

5136
03:20:40,790 --> 03:20:39,840
very secretly and he didn't talk to me a

5137
03:20:41,670 --> 03:20:40,800
lot

5138
03:20:42,710 --> 03:20:41,680
but

5139
03:20:44,790 --> 03:20:42,720
they were

5140
03:20:46,229 --> 03:20:44,800
around my table

5141
03:20:48,790 --> 03:20:46,239
um

5142
03:20:51,830 --> 03:20:48,800
mac and i don't know whether bill brazel

5143
03:20:53,110 --> 03:20:51,840
was there or not i don't remember that

5144
03:20:55,030 --> 03:20:53,120
but

5145
03:20:57,750 --> 03:20:55,040
mac and my kids and

5146
03:20:59,670 --> 03:20:57,760
finally and i was busy carrying the

5147
03:21:01,750 --> 03:20:59,680
coffee pot

5148
03:21:03,030 --> 03:21:01,760
and i really

5149
03:21:07,590 --> 03:21:03,040
uh

5150
03:21:09,190 --> 03:21:07,600
heard more sketches of the conversation

5151
03:21:12,469 --> 03:21:09,200
than if i were just sitting there

5152
03:21:14,870 --> 03:21:12,479
talking like we are here

5153
03:21:16,389 --> 03:21:14,880
what what what was what pieces of

5154
03:21:20,550 --> 03:21:16,399
conversation did you hear what do you

5155
03:21:26,070 --> 03:21:22,710
officers at

5156
03:21:30,790 --> 03:21:29,190
did he elaborate on that he did to them

5157
03:21:31,830 --> 03:21:30,800
yes he

5158
03:21:32,550 --> 03:21:31,840
uh

5159
03:21:37,349 --> 03:21:32,560
he

5160
03:21:39,030 --> 03:21:37,359
days or three nights

5161
03:21:41,910 --> 03:21:39,040
of course

5162
03:21:44,469 --> 03:21:41,920
ranchers all had livestock in their

5163
03:21:46,309 --> 03:21:44,479
corrals that had to be fed mac was there

5164
03:21:47,269 --> 03:21:46,319
by himself

5165
03:21:49,510 --> 03:21:47,279
and

5166
03:21:51,030 --> 03:21:49,520
i think he called bill bill was in

5167
03:21:52,790 --> 03:21:51,040
albuquerque

5168
03:21:54,790 --> 03:21:52,800
come down and take care of his livestock

5169
03:21:56,150 --> 03:21:54,800
but they literally threw him

5170
03:21:58,790 --> 03:21:56,160
in jail

5171
03:22:00,550 --> 03:21:58,800
and it was

5172
03:22:03,190 --> 03:22:00,560
two or three days later

5173
03:22:04,870 --> 03:22:03,200
lyman and floyd proctor had some

5174
03:22:08,389 --> 03:22:04,880
business with the

5175
03:22:10,309 --> 03:22:08,399
bureau of land management which

5176
03:22:12,229 --> 03:22:10,319
had an office i don't remember where

5177
03:22:14,550 --> 03:22:12,239
their office was then

5178
03:22:17,110 --> 03:22:14,560
anyway they came down here to the

5179
03:22:19,110 --> 03:22:17,120
bureau of land management together

5180
03:22:20,469 --> 03:22:19,120
and

5181
03:22:21,910 --> 03:22:20,479
they saw

5182
03:22:24,710 --> 03:22:21,920
mac

5183
03:22:27,990 --> 03:22:24,720
being discarded by two

5184
03:22:28,870 --> 03:22:28,000
i believe two army men

5185
03:22:33,030 --> 03:22:28,880
and

5186
03:22:34,870 --> 03:22:33,040
or not

5187
03:22:37,510 --> 03:22:34,880
i don't believe i ever heard that and i

5188
03:22:39,670 --> 03:22:37,520
don't believe he did

5189
03:22:40,469 --> 03:22:39,680
i believe they just said something about

5190
03:22:42,710 --> 03:22:40,479
it

5191
03:22:44,790 --> 03:22:42,720
because we were all

5192
03:22:47,110 --> 03:22:44,800
the whole neighborhood was

5193
03:22:49,429 --> 03:22:47,120
scandalized at the army

5194
03:22:51,510 --> 03:22:49,439
that the services would treat people

5195
03:22:55,429 --> 03:22:51,520
like that

5196
03:22:57,510 --> 03:22:55,439
people who had good intentions did matt

5197
03:22:59,670 --> 03:22:57,520
never mention what went on when he was

5198
03:23:01,269 --> 03:22:59,680
held

5199
03:23:05,110 --> 03:23:01,279
on the base

5200
03:23:05,120 --> 03:23:09,110
surely walter hawk did

5201
03:23:09,120 --> 03:23:13,750
he was a lieutenant

5202
03:23:18,150 --> 03:23:16,070
i couldn't tell you because like i said

5203
03:23:20,229 --> 03:23:18,160
i was carrying the coffee pot

5204
03:23:22,229 --> 03:23:20,239
mac was very secret to him and i know

5205
03:23:23,429 --> 03:23:22,239
that he made it plain

5206
03:23:25,990 --> 03:23:23,439
that

5207
03:23:28,389 --> 03:23:26,000
he was not supposed to

5208
03:23:30,070 --> 03:23:28,399
tell us and not supposed to tell that

5209
03:23:32,950 --> 03:23:30,080
and i think most of what he was not

5210
03:23:37,429 --> 03:23:32,960
supposed to tell was that there was any

5211
03:23:41,910 --> 03:23:38,790
now that's

5212
03:23:50,150 --> 03:23:46,389
but mack was pretty unhappy oh you bet

5213
03:23:51,349 --> 03:23:50,160
he was a man who uh had integrity

5214
03:23:52,550 --> 03:23:51,359
um

5215
03:23:55,590 --> 03:23:52,560
he was

5216
03:24:00,389 --> 03:23:55,600
he definitely felt insulted

5217
03:24:04,309 --> 03:24:03,110
and disrespected

5218
03:24:05,910 --> 03:24:04,319
so he was annoyed at the way the

5219
03:24:07,990 --> 03:24:05,920
military treated him it was worse than

5220
03:24:09,429 --> 03:24:08,000
knowing

5221
03:24:11,830 --> 03:24:09,439
he made the effort to come in with the

5222
03:24:13,510 --> 03:24:11,840
material and they treated him that way

5223
03:24:16,070 --> 03:24:13,520
that's right and he sat basically at

5224
03:24:17,750 --> 03:24:16,080
your coffee table and elaborated at my

5225
03:24:20,469 --> 03:24:17,760
dinner table dinner table didn't have a

5226
03:24:22,150 --> 03:24:20,479
coffee oh i meant i meant dinner

5227
03:24:22,950 --> 03:24:22,160
actually kitchen tables were like man

5228
03:24:24,389 --> 03:24:22,960
yeah

5229
03:24:27,030 --> 03:24:24,399
was this the only time that he talked

5230
03:24:29,510 --> 03:24:27,040
about it did he ever mention it maybe

5231
03:24:32,550 --> 03:24:29,520
some other times or i don't remember him

5232
03:24:33,910 --> 03:24:32,560
being at my table i was in the house now

5233
03:24:35,110 --> 03:24:33,920
lots of women

5234
03:24:41,830 --> 03:24:35,120
are

5235
03:24:43,110 --> 03:24:41,840
around the corrals a lot but i wasn't

5236
03:24:45,670 --> 03:24:43,120
and

5237
03:24:49,190 --> 03:24:47,670
he came to the house

5238
03:24:51,429 --> 03:24:49,200
off and on

5239
03:24:54,229 --> 03:24:51,439
when we built this new house he

5240
03:24:55,910 --> 03:24:54,239
came and helped flying with the plumbing

5241
03:24:58,070 --> 03:24:55,920
of course that was later

5242
03:24:59,990 --> 03:24:58,080
but

5243
03:25:02,469 --> 03:25:00,000
i don't remember that he ever came

5244
03:25:03,830 --> 03:25:02,479
during that time of stress

5245
03:25:05,510 --> 03:25:03,840
and he was

5246
03:25:08,550 --> 03:25:05,520
he was definitely

5247
03:25:10,950 --> 03:25:08,560
under some stress and felt like he had

5248
03:25:13,510 --> 03:25:10,960
been misused and kicked around

5249
03:25:15,110 --> 03:25:13,520
and this was right after he got back yes

5250
03:25:16,870 --> 03:25:15,120
right after they let him go

5251
03:25:19,349 --> 03:25:16,880
not too long

5252
03:25:23,670 --> 03:25:21,590
since none of us really

5253
03:25:26,469 --> 03:25:23,680
knew then

5254
03:25:28,630 --> 03:25:26,479
what the importance of it was

5255
03:25:31,750 --> 03:25:28,640
i don't remember just how long it was it

5256
03:25:37,590 --> 03:25:35,030
i don't think it was two months

5257
03:25:39,750 --> 03:25:37,600
did he talk about the material

5258
03:25:43,269 --> 03:25:39,760
uh yes he did

5259
03:25:45,590 --> 03:25:43,279
i remember he said something about um

5260
03:25:46,389 --> 03:25:45,600
that you could crumple it up and it

5261
03:25:47,910 --> 03:25:46,399
would

5262
03:25:49,750 --> 03:25:47,920
come right back out

5263
03:25:51,750 --> 03:25:49,760
now my daughter

5264
03:25:55,349 --> 03:25:51,760
i have been asked before

5265
03:25:58,229 --> 03:25:55,359
if anybody had any scraps of it

5266
03:26:00,309 --> 03:25:58,239
and my daughter told me on long distance

5267
03:26:02,229 --> 03:26:00,319
she was only 10 years old

5268
03:26:05,030 --> 03:26:02,239
and she said she wasn't impressed with

5269
03:26:07,590 --> 03:26:05,040
it but that bill brussel brought a scrap

5270
03:26:09,030 --> 03:26:07,600
of it up there and he was at the corral

5271
03:26:11,429 --> 03:26:09,040
he was

5272
03:26:14,389 --> 03:26:11,439
not in the house and i know i never saw

5273
03:26:16,830 --> 03:26:14,399
any of it i never saw it at all

5274
03:26:20,070 --> 03:26:16,840
and she said that it was very very

5275
03:26:21,910 --> 03:26:20,080
thin that i had done

5276
03:26:23,990 --> 03:26:21,920
i sewed a lot

5277
03:26:27,510 --> 03:26:24,000
and she was familiar with fabrics and

5278
03:26:30,229 --> 03:26:27,520
she said it was like a very thin copper

5279
03:26:31,670 --> 03:26:30,239
but very tough now she emphasized the

5280
03:26:33,830 --> 03:26:31,680
words tough

5281
03:26:34,870 --> 03:26:33,840
and i said how big was this scrapbook

5282
03:26:37,429 --> 03:26:34,880
hair

5283
03:26:39,830 --> 03:26:37,439
and she said oh six inches by eight or

5284
03:26:44,070 --> 03:26:41,750
and i said what do you reckon you did

5285
03:26:46,710 --> 03:26:44,080
with it she says well

5286
03:26:48,389 --> 03:26:46,720
if they did

5287
03:26:50,870 --> 03:26:48,399
bills

5288
03:26:53,349 --> 03:26:50,880
i don't believe they were

5289
03:26:57,269 --> 03:26:53,359
people who

5290
03:27:03,750 --> 03:26:59,190
they didn't have their house flooded

5291
03:27:07,750 --> 03:27:05,510
she says well when

5292
03:27:11,110 --> 03:27:07,760
if he didn't realize the importance of

5293
03:27:14,630 --> 03:27:12,229
that was

5294
03:27:16,630 --> 03:27:14,640
just conjecture

5295
03:27:18,550 --> 03:27:16,640
where where's your daughter now

5296
03:27:20,469 --> 03:27:18,560
fort martin colorado

5297
03:27:23,429 --> 03:27:20,479
and it's sally

5298
03:27:25,990 --> 03:27:24,469
what do you think it'd be all right if

5299
03:27:27,830 --> 03:27:26,000
we talked to her called her long

5300
03:27:29,190 --> 03:27:27,840
distance and chatted with her i'm sure

5301
03:27:32,630 --> 03:27:29,200
it would

5302
03:27:35,110 --> 03:27:32,640
do we have a phone number yes

5303
03:27:36,950 --> 03:27:35,120
do you ever remember what it is yes i do

5304
03:27:39,590 --> 03:27:36,960
you want to write it down no i'll have

5305
03:27:43,030 --> 03:27:40,550
one

5306
03:27:51,429 --> 03:27:43,040
day

5307
03:27:57,750 --> 03:27:53,429
that's her home telephone

5308
03:28:02,150 --> 03:28:00,309
now of course her husband and sons

5309
03:28:04,790 --> 03:28:02,160
wouldn't know anything about it are they

5310
03:28:06,070 --> 03:28:04,800
from this area are they from colorado or

5311
03:28:07,910 --> 03:28:06,080
colorado

5312
03:28:09,830 --> 03:28:07,920
oh

5313
03:28:11,830 --> 03:28:09,840
but she says bill brown brought a scrap

5314
03:28:14,550 --> 03:28:11,840
of advice for her to take a look at well

5315
03:28:15,990 --> 03:28:14,560
or just a show to show

5316
03:28:19,990 --> 03:28:16,000
and uh

5317
03:28:21,269 --> 03:28:20,000
like i said now she lived at the corral

5318
03:28:25,510 --> 03:28:21,279
uh

5319
03:28:28,710 --> 03:28:25,520
her daddy had ordered her to the house

5320
03:28:30,070 --> 03:28:28,720
she had her horses and so forth

5321
03:28:36,150 --> 03:28:30,080
and

5322
03:28:38,710 --> 03:28:36,160
that was the whole family's car field

5323
03:28:39,590 --> 03:28:38,720
was concerned

5324
03:28:41,190 --> 03:28:39,600
so

5325
03:28:43,990 --> 03:28:41,200
and i don't know whether i was home or

5326
03:28:49,269 --> 03:28:46,790
so basically what you know is mac brazil

5327
03:28:52,950 --> 03:28:50,790
held by the people at the base for a

5328
03:28:53,910 --> 03:28:52,960
number of days yes

5329
03:28:56,950 --> 03:28:53,920
he

5330
03:29:00,309 --> 03:28:56,960
came to your house and was

5331
03:29:02,229 --> 03:29:00,319
irritated by the first inheritance

5332
03:29:04,710 --> 03:29:02,239
by the by the treatment of them and you

5333
03:29:06,790 --> 03:29:04,720
heard some of his discussion about

5334
03:29:09,110 --> 03:29:06,800
what went on at the base and then lyman

5335
03:29:12,870 --> 03:29:10,710
mack

5336
03:29:17,910 --> 03:29:12,880
in the company of a number of if i could

5337
03:29:22,070 --> 03:29:19,830
back on the record how did i ask you

5338
03:29:24,790 --> 03:29:22,080
about the thunderstorm

5339
03:29:26,550 --> 03:29:24,800
the thunderstorm did anyone else comment

5340
03:29:30,229 --> 03:29:26,560
did you hear anyone else

5341
03:29:32,150 --> 03:29:30,239
comment about the thunderstorm storm

5342
03:29:34,070 --> 03:29:32,160
i asked juanita about it one time and

5343
03:29:35,590 --> 03:29:34,080
she said no she didn't remember it

5344
03:29:38,229 --> 03:29:35,600
because

5345
03:29:41,190 --> 03:29:38,239
she had little children her children

5346
03:29:44,229 --> 03:29:41,200
by 1947 mine were

5347
03:29:45,830 --> 03:29:44,239
7 8 and 10 years old 12.

5348
03:29:48,229 --> 03:29:45,840
and

5349
03:29:49,429 --> 03:29:48,239
hers were babies

5350
03:29:51,190 --> 03:29:49,439
and

5351
03:29:52,710 --> 03:29:51,200
i think that's what she said that she

5352
03:29:54,150 --> 03:29:52,720
didn't remember that

5353
03:29:57,030 --> 03:29:54,160
thunderstorm

5354
03:29:58,870 --> 03:29:57,040
i don't know if anybody else did or not

5355
03:30:04,790 --> 03:29:58,880
anyone else in the family that commented

5356
03:30:04,800 --> 03:30:09,510
sally could remember

5357
03:30:15,190 --> 03:30:13,030
i don't know okay my son just said or

5358
03:30:18,389 --> 03:30:15,200
not living

5359
03:30:19,910 --> 03:30:18,399
did mack say anything

5360
03:30:22,550 --> 03:30:19,920
while in roswell

5361
03:30:24,630 --> 03:30:22,560
that he was threatened

5362
03:30:25,750 --> 03:30:24,640
or that they uh i think he was

5363
03:30:27,750 --> 03:30:25,760
threatened

5364
03:30:28,830 --> 03:30:27,760
with

5365
03:30:31,750 --> 03:30:28,840
something

5366
03:30:33,910 --> 03:30:31,760
because he was threatened if he opened

5367
03:30:37,030 --> 03:30:33,920
his mouth he might

5368
03:30:44,870 --> 03:30:37,040
get thrown in the backside of the jail

5369
03:30:49,910 --> 03:30:48,150
he must not tell anything

5370
03:30:54,630 --> 03:30:49,920
he he said that he

5371
03:31:00,070 --> 03:30:56,830
so he was angry but yet

5372
03:31:04,630 --> 03:31:00,080
he also took it serious yes that he

5373
03:31:09,670 --> 03:31:07,349
was that unlike him that he would

5374
03:31:13,190 --> 03:31:09,680
yes it was unlikely buckled

5375
03:31:14,309 --> 03:31:13,200
down against something that he was

5376
03:31:16,229 --> 03:31:14,319
a very

5377
03:31:18,870 --> 03:31:16,239
upfront person

5378
03:31:20,150 --> 03:31:18,880
uh he would be likely to say what he

5379
03:31:23,910 --> 03:31:20,160
thought

5380
03:31:25,190 --> 03:31:23,920
and if it fitted you didn't like it

5381
03:31:27,030 --> 03:31:25,200
so what

5382
03:31:29,269 --> 03:31:27,040
what would it take to get him to keep

5383
03:31:31,990 --> 03:31:29,279
his mouth shut about something a serious

5384
03:31:38,229 --> 03:31:34,550
more than just the physical threats

5385
03:31:41,670 --> 03:31:40,469
but i don't know any threat that was

5386
03:31:44,710 --> 03:31:41,680
given right

5387
03:31:46,950 --> 03:31:44,720
like i said i was carrying the coffee

5388
03:31:48,150 --> 03:31:46,960
could they have done anything else

5389
03:31:52,469 --> 03:31:48,160
to

5390
03:31:55,590 --> 03:31:52,479
bribe him

5391
03:31:59,190 --> 03:31:55,600
you couldn't bribe mac

5392
03:32:02,630 --> 03:32:00,790
i think he'd

5393
03:32:04,550 --> 03:32:02,640
double up his fist

5394
03:32:06,389 --> 03:32:04,560
back your way

5395
03:32:14,870 --> 03:32:06,399
i really do

5396
03:32:19,510 --> 03:32:16,469
has anybody else

5397
03:32:21,830 --> 03:32:19,520
made any such remarks about mac

5398
03:32:24,469 --> 03:32:21,840
well i was going to

5399
03:32:27,429 --> 03:32:24,479
as far as his

5400
03:32:29,670 --> 03:32:27,439
financial situation prior to

5401
03:32:32,469 --> 03:32:29,680
the incident

5402
03:32:35,670 --> 03:32:32,479
i don't know much about his finances his

5403
03:32:38,070 --> 03:32:35,680
wife lived in alamogordo and had a home

5404
03:32:39,269 --> 03:32:38,080
there and i've been there and it was a

5405
03:32:40,309 --> 03:32:39,279
nice

5406
03:32:41,429 --> 03:32:40,319
house

5407
03:32:44,150 --> 03:32:41,439
not

5408
03:32:46,070 --> 03:32:44,160
well it was just a nice house in a nice

5409
03:32:47,990 --> 03:32:46,080
part of town it wasn't

5410
03:32:49,349 --> 03:32:48,000
extraordinary in

5411
03:32:51,269 --> 03:32:49,359
any which way

5412
03:32:53,750 --> 03:32:51,279
but it was a nice home and she had a

5413
03:32:55,030 --> 03:32:53,760
pretty yard with flowers

5414
03:32:57,030 --> 03:32:55,040
and

5415
03:32:58,950 --> 03:32:57,040
i don't know whether she didn't want to

5416
03:33:02,830 --> 03:32:58,960
live on the ranch or what

5417
03:33:06,630 --> 03:33:02,840
but the foster ranch was a big wrench

5418
03:33:08,870 --> 03:33:06,640
and probably the pay was something

5419
03:33:10,630 --> 03:33:08,880
important to make

5420
03:33:12,389 --> 03:33:10,640
any idea what

5421
03:33:18,469 --> 03:33:12,399
a man would be paid

5422
03:33:26,150 --> 03:33:20,469
now

5423
03:33:27,750 --> 03:33:26,160
we hired them just by the day but

5424
03:33:30,710 --> 03:33:27,760
i don't have any idea what a ranch

5425
03:33:33,429 --> 03:33:30,720
manager would have got

5426
03:33:34,550 --> 03:33:33,439
what did a hand get per day

5427
03:33:35,590 --> 03:33:34,560
back then

5428
03:33:38,710 --> 03:33:35,600
uh

5429
03:33:41,429 --> 03:33:38,720
a common hand would get about 60 dollars

5430
03:33:57,269 --> 03:33:45,269
or

5431
03:33:59,429 --> 03:33:57,279
if it was somebody

5432
03:34:09,429 --> 03:33:59,439
that knew what he was doing

5433
03:34:09,439 --> 03:34:13,429
but i don't know what matters

5434
03:34:19,190 --> 03:34:15,429
it wasn't anything you talked about

5435
03:34:27,349 --> 03:34:20,870
was there anything different about him

5436
03:34:30,309 --> 03:34:29,030
he might have been

5437
03:34:32,389 --> 03:34:30,319
a little

5438
03:34:34,389 --> 03:34:32,399
more reticent because he felt like he

5439
03:34:37,269 --> 03:34:34,399
was disgraced

5440
03:34:39,670 --> 03:34:37,279
and he really wanted to square himself

5441
03:34:41,590 --> 03:34:39,680
with his neighbors i think that's why he

5442
03:34:44,150 --> 03:34:41,600
talked a little

5443
03:34:45,830 --> 03:34:44,160
because he was afraid that the

5444
03:34:47,429 --> 03:34:45,840
neighbors might think he had done

5445
03:34:49,910 --> 03:34:47,439
something

5446
03:34:52,710 --> 03:34:49,920
of a

5447
03:34:58,229 --> 03:34:52,720
crooked nature

5448
03:35:03,349 --> 03:35:00,389
he might have

5449
03:35:05,830 --> 03:35:03,359
to

5450
03:35:08,469 --> 03:35:05,840
i don't know

5451
03:35:11,750 --> 03:35:08,479
when we built this house i said this

5452
03:35:13,990 --> 03:35:11,760
house that's in the painting lyman

5453
03:35:17,190 --> 03:35:14,000
didn't know anything about plumbing

5454
03:35:21,110 --> 03:35:17,200
because he cut two pieces of

5455
03:35:22,070 --> 03:35:21,120
a pipe and they were both too short

5456
03:35:28,469 --> 03:35:22,080
and

5457
03:35:30,229 --> 03:35:28,479
they put in the plumbing together

5458
03:35:32,630 --> 03:35:30,239
now i don't know if mac would have done

5459
03:35:35,830 --> 03:35:32,640
that before that or not

5460
03:35:39,910 --> 03:35:35,840
this was in the early 50s

5461
03:35:41,590 --> 03:35:39,920
who painted the picture one of my sons

5462
03:35:44,150 --> 03:35:41,600
did he paint all these pictures he

5463
03:35:46,469 --> 03:35:44,160
painted everything in oil

5464
03:35:51,269 --> 03:35:46,479
and did all the wood carvings

5465
03:35:55,830 --> 03:35:52,870
i'm impressed you did this one by the

5466
03:35:59,349 --> 03:35:56,950
yes

5467
03:36:01,590 --> 03:35:59,359
that's a story that's a

5468
03:36:04,630 --> 03:36:01,600
story that's really

5469
03:36:10,790 --> 03:36:07,910
that happened when my husband was about

5470
03:36:12,790 --> 03:36:10,800
two or three years old

5471
03:36:16,870 --> 03:36:12,800
um

5472
03:36:21,590 --> 03:36:19,670
my son painted it from his father's

5473
03:36:24,469 --> 03:36:21,600
story about it

5474
03:36:26,870 --> 03:36:24,479
at that time they had

5475
03:36:28,229 --> 03:36:26,880
no fences or very few

5476
03:36:30,309 --> 03:36:28,239
and

5477
03:36:31,750 --> 03:36:30,319
lots of cowboys

5478
03:36:34,710 --> 03:36:31,760
and they ran

5479
03:36:35,990 --> 03:36:34,720
this was like the chisholm outfit

5480
03:36:37,510 --> 03:36:36,000
but

5481
03:36:39,429 --> 03:36:37,520
they didn't work for chisholm they

5482
03:36:40,950 --> 03:36:39,439
worked for hankel

5483
03:36:41,830 --> 03:36:40,960
and uh

5484
03:36:46,790 --> 03:36:41,840
they

5485
03:36:48,950 --> 03:36:46,800
plum to the mountains

5486
03:36:49,990 --> 03:36:48,960
and uh

5487
03:36:51,830 --> 03:36:50,000
anyway

5488
03:36:54,469 --> 03:36:51,840
these cowboys went out in the morning i

5489
03:36:55,269 --> 03:36:54,479
don't know how many were half a dozen

5490
03:36:58,389 --> 03:36:55,279
and

5491
03:36:59,910 --> 03:36:58,399
uh this one didn't come back

5492
03:37:00,950 --> 03:36:59,920
so they knew something would happen to

5493
03:37:02,150 --> 03:37:00,960
him

5494
03:37:03,750 --> 03:37:02,160
and

5495
03:37:06,790 --> 03:37:03,760
what had happened

5496
03:37:09,429 --> 03:37:06,800
was that his horse stepped in a hole

5497
03:37:12,229 --> 03:37:09,439
and fell with him and broke the man's

5498
03:37:13,830 --> 03:37:12,239
leg but not the horse's leg

5499
03:37:16,550 --> 03:37:13,840
and

5500
03:37:18,229 --> 03:37:16,560
the wolves could smell the blood

5501
03:37:19,990 --> 03:37:18,239
his

5502
03:37:22,070 --> 03:37:20,000
the skin was broken

5503
03:37:23,990 --> 03:37:22,080
the boob was pulled away

5504
03:37:26,469 --> 03:37:24,000
and the wolves could smell the blood and

5505
03:37:28,630 --> 03:37:26,479
if national geographic and they did i

5506
03:37:30,950 --> 03:37:28,640
read it if they want to tell you that

5507
03:37:34,150 --> 03:37:30,960
wolves won't attack

5508
03:37:37,349 --> 03:37:34,160
maybe they won't if there's just one

5509
03:37:40,710 --> 03:37:37,359
but whether a whole ring a wolf

5510
03:37:43,750 --> 03:37:40,720
a bunch and they smell blood

5511
03:37:44,950 --> 03:37:43,760
they would and anyway

5512
03:37:48,550 --> 03:37:44,960
he had

5513
03:37:50,790 --> 03:37:48,560
little chips of wood that he got on fire

5514
03:37:53,110 --> 03:37:50,800
and threw at him all night long

5515
03:37:55,349 --> 03:37:53,120
and they found him the other cowboys

5516
03:37:57,349 --> 03:37:55,359
found him the next morning

5517
03:38:01,110 --> 03:37:57,359
and

5518
03:38:03,349 --> 03:38:01,120
uh my mother-in-law lyman's mother

5519
03:38:05,349 --> 03:38:03,359
uh walked up to it and says there's

5520
03:38:09,030 --> 03:38:05,359
supposed to have been a tree right there

5521
03:38:14,790 --> 03:38:12,630
my son had never painted a tree he never

5522
03:38:17,910 --> 03:38:14,800
painted a tree until i insisted that he

5523
03:38:19,269 --> 03:38:17,920
paint these that are around the house

5524
03:38:21,510 --> 03:38:19,279
and uh

5525
03:38:23,190 --> 03:38:21,520
so he didn't put any tree in it

5526
03:38:25,510 --> 03:38:23,200
and her sister

5527
03:38:27,510 --> 03:38:25,520
aunt jenny walked up to it and said

5528
03:38:29,429 --> 03:38:27,520
somebody else in the room says well

5529
03:38:32,150 --> 03:38:29,439
didn't get over it she says well he sure

5530
03:38:34,790 --> 03:38:32,160
was a good old answer

5531
03:38:37,110 --> 03:38:34,800
so i guess he knows

5532
03:38:38,830 --> 03:38:37,120
those are beautiful pictures yeah thank

5533
03:38:42,150 --> 03:38:38,840
you i treasure

5534
03:38:44,309 --> 03:38:42,160
everything my son was selling

5535
03:38:47,990 --> 03:38:44,319
at the time that he died

5536
03:38:49,510 --> 03:38:48,000
and he had sold several portraits

5537
03:38:51,590 --> 03:38:49,520
and

5538
03:38:54,630 --> 03:38:51,600
the people who had commissioned

5539
03:38:56,309 --> 03:38:54,640
portraits came and gone

5540
03:39:05,590 --> 03:38:56,319
but

5541
03:39:06,469 --> 03:39:05,600
crazy ones and what is it that you

5542
03:39:09,030 --> 03:39:06,479
painted

5543
03:39:11,349 --> 03:39:09,040
i paint china

5544
03:39:13,670 --> 03:39:11,359
and what

5545
03:39:15,590 --> 03:39:13,680
what in here did you do well this

5546
03:39:18,630 --> 03:39:15,600
cabinet is full of it

5547
03:39:20,229 --> 03:39:18,640
and

5548
03:39:22,550 --> 03:39:20,239
the

5549
03:39:24,309 --> 03:39:22,560
everything except one or two

5550
03:39:27,110 --> 03:39:24,319
uh antiques

5551
03:39:28,870 --> 03:39:27,120
in these shelves

5552
03:39:31,349 --> 03:39:28,880
uh that's obvious where you learned it

5553
03:39:35,110 --> 03:39:31,359
from yeah how about these cups with

5554
03:39:36,469 --> 03:39:35,120
birds i painted all the way

5555
03:39:39,429 --> 03:39:36,479
it's incredible

5556
03:39:42,229 --> 03:39:39,439
that's marvelous now i didn't paint the

5557
03:39:44,229 --> 03:39:42,239
virgin that's in the window

5558
03:39:45,830 --> 03:39:44,239
i did about half of the birds are more

5559
03:39:47,189 --> 03:39:45,840
than half maybe the floor is

5560
03:39:52,389 --> 03:39:47,199
understanding

5561
03:39:52,399 --> 03:39:55,590
really realistic

5562
03:39:57,910 --> 03:39:56,389
well

5563
03:39:59,990 --> 03:39:57,920
thank you

5564
03:40:02,550 --> 03:40:00,000
i've enjoyed doing it my son was

5565
03:40:05,349 --> 03:40:02,560
painting at the time that i

5566
03:40:08,309 --> 03:40:05,359
found the lady who gave lessons and

5567
03:40:09,670 --> 03:40:08,319
that was her husband that came with him

5568
03:40:12,389 --> 03:40:09,680
and uh

5569
03:40:14,309 --> 03:40:12,399
i thought well i've always enjoyed china

5570
03:40:15,670 --> 03:40:14,319
and i'll do this so

5571
03:40:20,389 --> 03:40:15,680
i don't um

5572
03:40:24,550 --> 03:40:23,429
he had talent that i've never had

5573
03:40:26,630 --> 03:40:24,560
so i thought

5574
03:40:28,550 --> 03:40:26,640
you've got a lot of talent but it's

5575
03:40:31,590 --> 03:40:28,560
obvious that he has lots of talent too

5576
03:40:37,510 --> 03:40:31,600
he had a lot

5577
03:40:41,990 --> 03:40:40,469
he was 40 years old when he died

5578
03:40:43,990 --> 03:40:42,000
and

5579
03:40:48,550 --> 03:40:44,000
he had

5580
03:40:51,030 --> 03:40:48,560
really just gotten into the artistic

5581
03:40:52,950 --> 03:40:51,040
efforts he drew from the time he was

5582
03:40:54,870 --> 03:40:52,960
four or five years old the things that

5583
03:40:57,030 --> 03:40:54,880
you could

5584
03:40:59,590 --> 03:40:57,040
that well i'm his mother

5585
03:41:02,309 --> 03:40:59,600
things that you might say

5586
03:41:04,950 --> 03:41:02,319
this is awfully good he drew one that i

5587
03:41:06,550 --> 03:41:04,960
hung on the wall until it turned yellow

5588
03:41:09,750 --> 03:41:06,560
and it was a

5589
03:41:12,550 --> 03:41:09,760
a cowboy standing by a windmill

5590
03:41:14,469 --> 03:41:12,560
and the windmill was much taller than my

5591
03:41:16,229 --> 03:41:14,479
the ball the cowboy was much taller than

5592
03:41:19,110 --> 03:41:16,239
the windmill

5593
03:41:21,349 --> 03:41:19,120
so you know who was the most important

5594
03:41:23,990 --> 03:41:21,359
but both were very good

5595
03:41:29,110 --> 03:41:24,000
and he was bold when he drew them

5596
03:41:31,750 --> 03:41:29,120
but um i have paintings of his although

5597
03:41:33,910 --> 03:41:31,760
i have a grant

5598
03:41:35,429 --> 03:41:33,920
a grandson and

5599
03:41:36,630 --> 03:41:35,439
two grandsons

5600
03:41:38,790 --> 03:41:36,640
that are

5601
03:41:39,910 --> 03:41:38,800
this daughter's

5602
03:41:46,790 --> 03:41:39,920
one of them

5603
03:41:51,590 --> 03:41:48,790
well if you don't mind i'd like to video

5604
03:41:52,790 --> 03:41:51,600
the paintings all right i'd like to i

5605
03:41:54,150 --> 03:41:52,800
don't know i don't know if it will come

5606
03:42:00,960 --> 03:41:54,160
out how good it will be but i'd

5607
03:42:00,970 --> 03:42:14,070
[Music]

5608
03:42:26,389 --> 03:42:16,070
and you say this is his house or your

5609
03:42:31,670 --> 03:42:28,309
after we moved in here and i knew what

5610
03:42:33,110 --> 03:42:31,680
was going on he had five little strokes

5611
03:42:35,189 --> 03:42:33,120
but

5612
03:42:38,389 --> 03:42:35,199
he had glaucoma

5613
03:42:40,710 --> 03:42:38,399
and uh

5614
03:42:43,110 --> 03:42:40,720
my son and i were suspicious that you

5615
03:42:48,309 --> 03:42:43,120
had something this is a

5616
03:42:48,319 --> 03:42:52,630
is it done from a photograph

5617
03:42:57,189 --> 03:42:54,070
but this one

5618
03:43:21,429 --> 03:42:59,110
worked in a lot of mediums

5619
03:43:25,830 --> 03:43:23,510
what's up he had glaucoma and was

5620
03:43:29,670 --> 03:43:25,840
treated for it for several years

5621
03:43:31,030 --> 03:43:29,680
and uh his eyesight was such that

5622
03:43:34,710 --> 03:43:31,040
this old

5623
03:43:38,150 --> 03:43:34,720
excitable woman wouldn't ride with him

5624
03:43:39,590 --> 03:43:38,160
except on a ranch where it didn't matter

5625
03:43:41,830 --> 03:43:39,600
and

5626
03:43:43,830 --> 03:43:41,840
but we were coming back from

5627
03:43:45,269 --> 03:43:43,840
roswell with a load of feed and i was

5628
03:43:48,469 --> 03:43:45,279
driving

5629
03:43:51,510 --> 03:43:48,479
we had a three-quarter ton pickup

5630
03:43:53,110 --> 03:43:51,520
and usually loaded it with

5631
03:43:56,469 --> 03:43:53,120
two or three times

5632
03:43:59,830 --> 03:43:58,070
this was in

5633
03:44:02,630 --> 03:43:59,840
maybe in the 50s

5634
03:44:04,309 --> 03:44:02,640
i couldn't tell you exactly

5635
03:44:10,870 --> 03:44:04,319
it didn't have anything to do with my

5636
03:44:14,550 --> 03:44:12,710
have you been i guess you've been the

5637
03:44:15,510 --> 03:44:14,560
corona yes

5638
03:44:17,110 --> 03:44:15,520
and

5639
03:44:19,030 --> 03:44:17,120
have you

5640
03:44:20,469 --> 03:44:19,040
crossed the gail

5641
03:44:21,990 --> 03:44:20,479
and

5642
03:44:24,550 --> 03:44:22,000
then gone

5643
03:44:27,429 --> 03:44:24,560
up by what was the reynolds ranch then

5644
03:44:28,630 --> 03:44:27,439
there's a long straight road right along

5645
03:44:33,670 --> 03:44:28,640
the

5646
03:44:35,670 --> 03:44:33,680
i'd call it a mesa

5647
03:44:39,590 --> 03:44:35,680
it it stretches for at least two or

5648
03:44:42,630 --> 03:44:39,600
three miles just as straight as a river

5649
03:44:44,710 --> 03:44:42,640
you come up from a deep draw

5650
03:44:46,630 --> 03:44:44,720
and go up on this

5651
03:44:48,950 --> 03:44:46,640
long straight road

5652
03:44:51,670 --> 03:44:48,960
well go back

5653
03:44:53,030 --> 03:44:51,680
this is going to go

5654
03:44:56,389 --> 03:44:53,040
off

5655
03:44:57,510 --> 03:44:56,399
but it's 59 miles out here

5656
03:44:59,990 --> 03:44:57,520
and

5657
03:45:01,990 --> 03:45:00,000
then it cuts off to go corona it wasn't

5658
03:45:05,030 --> 03:45:02,000
paved then

5659
03:45:05,040 --> 03:45:10,389
anyway

5660
03:45:15,830 --> 03:45:13,429
go back to 1942

5661
03:45:16,950 --> 03:45:15,840
about 1942

5662
03:45:18,950 --> 03:45:16,960
there were

5663
03:45:21,030 --> 03:45:18,960
lots of

5664
03:45:23,429 --> 03:45:21,040
army planes going over

5665
03:45:25,990 --> 03:45:23,439
because that's right on a direct line

5666
03:45:28,229 --> 03:45:26,000
between here in albuquerque

5667
03:45:30,790 --> 03:45:28,239
and there was one

5668
03:45:33,030 --> 03:45:30,800
that had the bomb site if you remember

5669
03:45:36,070 --> 03:45:33,040
they had a bomb site that

5670
03:45:38,870 --> 03:45:36,080
they protected with men's lives

5671
03:45:42,229 --> 03:45:38,880
and the planes were fixed so that they

5672
03:45:44,070 --> 03:45:42,239
blow up if they didn't land just

5673
03:45:45,910 --> 03:45:44,080
properly

5674
03:45:48,870 --> 03:45:45,920
well anyway

5675
03:45:51,110 --> 03:45:48,880
this plane circled every this was night

5676
03:45:52,710 --> 03:45:51,120
we had gone to bed it was about 10 11

5677
03:45:55,750 --> 03:45:52,720
o'clock

5678
03:45:58,070 --> 03:45:55,760
and nearly everybody had 10 roofs

5679
03:46:00,550 --> 03:45:58,080
this was 1942

5680
03:46:03,189 --> 03:46:00,560
you could see the tin rust shiny

5681
03:46:04,469 --> 03:46:03,199
in whatever light there was

5682
03:46:05,990 --> 03:46:04,479
and uh

5683
03:46:07,750 --> 03:46:06,000
um

5684
03:46:11,189 --> 03:46:07,760
this plane you could tell it was in

5685
03:46:14,309 --> 03:46:11,199
trouble because of the way the motors

5686
03:46:16,150 --> 03:46:14,319
and they sat they circled every

5687
03:46:19,110 --> 03:46:16,160
uh ranch house

5688
03:46:22,469 --> 03:46:19,120
in that area hours included and by the

5689
03:46:25,269 --> 03:46:22,479
time you think of what to do to go down

5690
03:46:27,910 --> 03:46:25,279
to the field with your pickup and shine

5691
03:46:32,389 --> 03:46:29,750
on the furrows

5692
03:46:34,790 --> 03:46:32,399
the way they ran or something

5693
03:46:36,550 --> 03:46:34,800
they were gone and gone on to some other

5694
03:46:37,750 --> 03:46:36,560
place

5695
03:46:40,150 --> 03:46:37,760
anyway

5696
03:46:41,670 --> 03:46:40,160
they spotted this

5697
03:46:44,229 --> 03:46:41,680
this long

5698
03:46:47,750 --> 03:46:44,239
road across there

5699
03:46:49,110 --> 03:46:47,760
and they tried to land and it blew up

5700
03:46:51,189 --> 03:46:49,120
and

5701
03:46:52,550 --> 03:46:51,199
they carded that off for

5702
03:46:54,469 --> 03:46:52,560
a week

5703
03:46:57,189 --> 03:46:54,479
gathering up

5704
03:47:00,070 --> 03:46:58,790
and

5705
03:47:02,309 --> 03:47:00,080
anyway

5706
03:47:03,189 --> 03:47:02,319
this was 1950

5707
03:47:04,950 --> 03:47:03,199
and

5708
03:47:06,469 --> 03:47:04,960
i was driving

5709
03:47:08,870 --> 03:47:06,479
real slow

5710
03:47:10,469 --> 03:47:08,880
and up out of the guy here which is very

5711
03:47:13,510 --> 03:47:10,479
sandy

5712
03:47:14,630 --> 03:47:13,520
you don't cross the gaia just anywhere

5713
03:47:17,030 --> 03:47:14,640
uh

5714
03:47:18,630 --> 03:47:17,040
it's so sandy that you could bog down in

5715
03:47:19,750 --> 03:47:18,640
the sand

5716
03:47:21,110 --> 03:47:19,760
came this

5717
03:47:22,150 --> 03:47:21,120
red

5718
03:47:25,110 --> 03:47:22,160
light

5719
03:47:29,030 --> 03:47:25,120
just as round this removed

5720
03:47:30,950 --> 03:47:29,040
a large red pull fading light

5721
03:47:33,830 --> 03:47:30,960
came up out of the gallo

5722
03:47:34,870 --> 03:47:33,840
came directly at us and all i could

5723
03:47:37,349 --> 03:47:34,880
think of

5724
03:47:40,630 --> 03:47:37,359
we were up on this long road

5725
03:47:43,269 --> 03:47:40,640
all i could think of was that it was a

5726
03:47:45,189 --> 03:47:43,279
plane with that was in trouble when

5727
03:47:46,950 --> 03:47:45,199
trying to land

5728
03:47:49,189 --> 03:47:46,960
and uh

5729
03:47:56,150 --> 03:47:49,199
i

5730
03:47:59,510 --> 03:47:56,160
that the barbados was awfully deep

5731
03:48:01,189 --> 03:47:59,520
and we went off on that side

5732
03:48:03,110 --> 03:48:01,199
if the thing didn't turn over with the

5733
03:48:03,910 --> 03:48:03,120
load we had

5734
03:48:06,469 --> 03:48:03,920
but

5735
03:48:07,189 --> 03:48:06,479
anyway he got out and run down the hill

5736
03:48:09,990 --> 03:48:07,199
and

5737
03:48:11,510 --> 03:48:10,000
i had a heck of a time getting my

5738
03:48:13,990 --> 03:48:11,520
door open

5739
03:48:16,469 --> 03:48:14,000
but i did get out and i saw it not

5740
03:48:19,030 --> 03:48:16,479
through the windshield

5741
03:48:19,750 --> 03:48:19,040
and this light came right straight over

5742
03:48:21,750 --> 03:48:19,760
us

5743
03:48:23,349 --> 03:48:21,760
and stood there

5744
03:48:26,710 --> 03:48:23,359
just to steal

5745
03:48:29,429 --> 03:48:26,720
and all one time it took off and went on

5746
03:48:33,429 --> 03:48:29,439
in another direction

5747
03:48:35,349 --> 03:48:33,439
now it didn't occur to me at the time

5748
03:48:38,229 --> 03:48:35,359
until the next day

5749
03:48:40,710 --> 03:48:38,239
there was not a sound

5750
03:48:45,189 --> 03:48:40,720
no sound

5751
03:48:45,199 --> 03:48:50,070
i was not seeing it through glass

5752
03:48:55,189 --> 03:48:52,710
and there was not any sound

5753
03:48:57,750 --> 03:48:55,199
and i said to lyman i'm gonna call we

5754
03:48:59,830 --> 03:48:57,760
had a telephone to then too

5755
03:49:00,950 --> 03:48:59,840
and must have had part of this house

5756
03:49:01,990 --> 03:49:00,960
built

5757
03:49:03,910 --> 03:49:02,000
and uh

5758
03:49:05,990 --> 03:49:03,920
i said i'm gonna call white sands and

5759
03:49:08,070 --> 03:49:06,000
tell them they lost one of their rockets

5760
03:49:11,030 --> 03:49:08,080
he says you just shut up and don't say

5761
03:49:13,510 --> 03:49:11,040
one word they'll make a food out of you

5762
03:49:15,990 --> 03:49:13,520
and they already had two or three people

5763
03:49:17,189 --> 03:49:16,000
that had seen things

5764
03:49:19,830 --> 03:49:17,199
and

5765
03:49:22,150 --> 03:49:19,840
i was just convinced it was some earthly

5766
03:49:24,950 --> 03:49:22,160
thing that had gotten loose

5767
03:49:27,110 --> 03:49:24,960
but i would like to ask you all

5768
03:49:29,590 --> 03:49:27,120
is there any

5769
03:49:31,670 --> 03:49:29,600
theory of anybody

5770
03:49:33,670 --> 03:49:31,680
who has had a theory that this is a

5771
03:49:34,950 --> 03:49:33,680
light

5772
03:49:35,910 --> 03:49:34,960
thing

5773
03:49:36,830 --> 03:49:35,920
i mean

5774
03:49:39,510 --> 03:49:36,840
like

5775
03:49:42,469 --> 03:49:39,520
we send the searchlight

5776
03:49:44,469 --> 03:49:42,479
the searchlight doesn't make any sense

5777
03:49:47,269 --> 03:49:44,479
you throw a baseball through the air and

5778
03:49:49,830 --> 03:49:47,279
it makes a sound

5779
03:49:53,750 --> 03:49:49,840
and i can't help but think that if

5780
03:49:55,349 --> 03:49:53,760
it appeared to me that this

5781
03:49:58,950 --> 03:49:55,359
thing

5782
03:50:03,269 --> 03:50:01,110
not over 100 feet above

5783
03:50:04,150 --> 03:50:03,279
maybe not that much i couldn't really

5784
03:50:06,790 --> 03:50:04,160
tell

5785
03:50:10,070 --> 03:50:06,800
it was pitch dark it was something i've

5786
03:50:14,710 --> 03:50:12,469
and uh

5787
03:50:18,790 --> 03:50:14,720
has anybody else knows the weather

5788
03:50:24,950 --> 03:50:21,510
yeah i remember there was no muddy road

5789
03:50:28,950 --> 03:50:26,870
heard hundreds and hundreds of reports

5790
03:50:31,429 --> 03:50:28,960
like that and you heard that they don't

5791
03:50:34,389 --> 03:50:31,439
make a sound

5792
03:50:35,590 --> 03:50:34,399
but has anybody said that it could be a

5793
03:50:37,349 --> 03:50:35,600
sign

5794
03:50:40,309 --> 03:50:37,359
of something that's beamed from

5795
03:50:43,349 --> 03:50:40,319
somewhere else

5796
03:50:46,830 --> 03:50:43,359
your guess is as good as anybody else's

5797
03:50:48,469 --> 03:50:46,840
speculation theories about

5798
03:50:50,630 --> 03:50:48,479
holographic

5799
03:50:52,710 --> 03:50:50,640
projections that almost appears to be

5800
03:50:54,870 --> 03:50:52,720
three-dimensional

5801
03:50:56,630 --> 03:50:54,880
from the projector

5802
03:50:58,309 --> 03:50:56,640
thing it's

5803
03:50:59,910 --> 03:50:58,319
not even solid object it's just a

5804
03:51:00,830 --> 03:50:59,920
projection just a

5805
03:51:05,910 --> 03:51:00,840
ball of

5806
03:51:10,309 --> 03:51:08,309
red round

5807
03:51:13,189 --> 03:51:10,319
what shade of red

5808
03:51:14,790 --> 03:51:13,199
i'd say it was a little bit

5809
03:51:17,830 --> 03:51:14,800
uh

5810
03:51:19,990 --> 03:51:17,840
yellow brown just a little yellow

5811
03:51:22,229 --> 03:51:20,000
lots of red

5812
03:51:24,309 --> 03:51:22,239
more orange red yes

5813
03:51:25,830 --> 03:51:24,319
if i'm going to my palette i'd pick up

5814
03:51:29,030 --> 03:51:25,840
yellow red

5815
03:51:30,950 --> 03:51:29,040
but it would be an orange red

5816
03:51:32,630 --> 03:51:30,960
well we even have lots of reports of

5817
03:51:34,790 --> 03:51:32,640
huge vehicles

5818
03:51:36,710 --> 03:51:34,800
hovering over people's heads with no

5819
03:51:39,990 --> 03:51:36,720
sound at all

5820
03:51:43,349 --> 03:51:40,000
and i can tell that it's a vehicle yes

5821
03:51:46,870 --> 03:51:45,429
and no sound

5822
03:51:49,269 --> 03:51:46,880
well how do you

5823
03:51:51,269 --> 03:51:49,279
explain that because

5824
03:51:53,910 --> 03:51:51,279
like i said you throw a ball through the

5825
03:51:54,710 --> 03:51:53,920
air and you've got a sound

5826
03:51:58,950 --> 03:51:54,720
the

5827
03:52:00,710 --> 03:51:58,960
somehow

5828
03:52:04,389 --> 03:52:00,720
the object

5829
03:52:06,309 --> 03:52:04,399
is able to with some type of a

5830
03:52:09,189 --> 03:52:06,319
for a field that would surround the

5831
03:52:11,030 --> 03:52:09,199
object actually draw the surrounding air

5832
03:52:13,590 --> 03:52:11,040
molecules

5833
03:52:15,269 --> 03:52:13,600
with it that would start to cushion it

5834
03:52:16,950 --> 03:52:15,279
and eliminate the friction the air

5835
03:52:17,990 --> 03:52:16,960
friction

5836
03:52:19,429 --> 03:52:18,000
something

5837
03:52:21,830 --> 03:52:19,439
here

5838
03:52:24,389 --> 03:52:21,840
i know it's faking greek but

5839
03:52:26,630 --> 03:52:24,399
really whatever we don't know

5840
03:52:28,469 --> 03:52:26,640
there's no friction there's no well you

5841
03:52:29,670 --> 03:52:28,479
know what a sonic boom is it's hard

5842
03:52:32,469 --> 03:52:29,680
because that's where the air is

5843
03:52:35,110 --> 03:52:32,479
separated by the supersonic jet as it

5844
03:52:36,870 --> 03:52:35,120
comes together it collapse

5845
03:52:38,870 --> 03:52:36,880
so whatever this is

5846
03:52:40,389 --> 03:52:38,880
it doesn't cause that it doesn't allow

5847
03:52:42,070 --> 03:52:40,399
it to come together

5848
03:52:45,110 --> 03:52:42,080
it doesn't seem to have to come together

5849
03:52:46,389 --> 03:52:45,120
it seems to be no break in the air

5850
03:52:49,910 --> 03:52:46,399
that's where the theory that it's

5851
03:52:53,429 --> 03:52:51,830
see too when you have an object that

5852
03:52:54,950 --> 03:52:53,439
moves that fast

5853
03:52:56,630 --> 03:52:54,960
that the friction would cause it to

5854
03:52:59,110 --> 03:52:56,640
start to glow

5855
03:53:01,590 --> 03:52:59,120
that's where like a meteorite

5856
03:53:03,670 --> 03:53:01,600
breaks up or even a satellite

5857
03:53:05,269 --> 03:53:03,680
in reentry would burn up as it comes

5858
03:53:07,349 --> 03:53:05,279
into the atmosphere

5859
03:53:09,110 --> 03:53:07,359
we don't get

5860
03:53:12,550 --> 03:53:09,120
well this that wasn't the meteorite

5861
03:53:14,950 --> 03:53:12,560
because it stood there

5862
03:53:16,950 --> 03:53:14,960
maybe they were

5863
03:53:19,510 --> 03:53:16,960
seeing how smart we were to see if they

5864
03:53:20,710 --> 03:53:19,520
wanted to ask us a few questions i don't

5865
03:53:23,030 --> 03:53:20,720
know

5866
03:53:24,950 --> 03:53:23,040
decided they didn't how long did it sit

5867
03:53:27,830 --> 03:53:24,960
there you know

5868
03:53:29,590 --> 03:53:27,840
you're under such a stress at the time

5869
03:53:31,990 --> 03:53:29,600
it's hard to say

5870
03:53:33,750 --> 03:53:32,000
i would say a few seconds

5871
03:53:35,670 --> 03:53:33,760
uh maybe

5872
03:53:37,189 --> 03:53:35,680
certainly not more than three to five

5873
03:53:38,950 --> 03:53:37,199
minutes

5874
03:53:41,349 --> 03:53:38,960
but you were moving in the truck at the

5875
03:53:45,349 --> 03:53:41,359
time no i could stop the truck good

5876
03:53:47,670 --> 03:53:45,359
stuff yes was it up ahead of the truck

5877
03:53:50,389 --> 03:53:47,680
as it appeared to hover or was it

5878
03:53:52,150 --> 03:53:50,399
right over here right over here

5879
03:53:54,630 --> 03:53:52,160
if i had been in the truck

5880
03:53:55,910 --> 03:53:54,640
i couldn't have seen it

5881
03:53:57,990 --> 03:53:55,920
but i had

5882
03:53:58,710 --> 03:53:58,000
uh you know it was hard to open a pickup

5883
03:54:00,070 --> 03:53:58,720
truck

5884
03:54:03,269 --> 03:54:00,080
to the windshield

5885
03:54:05,670 --> 03:54:03,279
i didn't look out through the windshield

5886
03:54:08,309 --> 03:54:05,680
i did when i first saw it right my

5887
03:54:09,189 --> 03:54:08,319
husband had run off down the draw and he

5888
03:54:11,030 --> 03:54:09,199
kept

5889
03:54:13,590 --> 03:54:11,040
hollering at me to come on

5890
03:54:15,750 --> 03:54:13,600
out his side and i really i think i was

5891
03:54:16,550 --> 03:54:15,760
afraid that the whole pickup would turn

5892
03:54:17,750 --> 03:54:16,560
over

5893
03:54:20,150 --> 03:54:17,760
because

5894
03:54:21,990 --> 03:54:20,160
that was a deep garbage

5895
03:54:23,670 --> 03:54:22,000
i've heard that they've got that road

5896
03:54:25,269 --> 03:54:23,680
paved down i don't know what kind of

5897
03:54:27,349 --> 03:54:25,279
garbages they got

5898
03:54:28,790 --> 03:54:27,359
but that one was deep

5899
03:54:30,950 --> 03:54:28,800
and

5900
03:54:33,030 --> 03:54:30,960
anyway i remember struggling out on the

5901
03:54:35,349 --> 03:54:33,040
driver's side

5902
03:54:39,269 --> 03:54:37,269
stood there

5903
03:54:41,189 --> 03:54:39,279
because

5904
03:54:43,269 --> 03:54:41,199
by that time by the time i got out i

5905
03:54:44,469 --> 03:54:43,279
could see that it was not an airplane

5906
03:54:47,590 --> 03:54:44,479
that was

5907
03:54:49,429 --> 03:54:47,600
trying to land and come down the road

5908
03:54:51,189 --> 03:54:49,439
but that's what i thought it was would

5909
03:54:53,110 --> 03:54:51,199
this have been

5910
03:54:56,229 --> 03:54:53,120
in 1949

5911
03:55:00,870 --> 03:54:57,990
i couldn't

5912
03:55:05,590 --> 03:55:00,880
swear to the date

5913
03:55:12,830 --> 03:55:07,910
his eyes got so bad that

5914
03:55:17,670 --> 03:55:16,950
oh i guess he had some eye problems

5915
03:55:20,469 --> 03:55:17,680
from

5916
03:55:21,429 --> 03:55:20,479
the time i first knew him

5917
03:55:23,349 --> 03:55:21,439
but

5918
03:55:25,750 --> 03:55:23,359
they were not treated

5919
03:55:29,030 --> 03:55:25,760
until

5920
03:55:31,910 --> 03:55:29,040
in the late 40s

5921
03:55:34,790 --> 03:55:31,920
and for that time it was really too late

5922
03:55:39,429 --> 03:55:34,800
he was blind for

5923
03:55:43,269 --> 03:55:41,429
he died

5924
03:55:45,510 --> 03:55:43,279
quite a few years ago right

5925
03:55:46,550 --> 03:55:45,520
six years ago well six years ago seven

5926
03:55:52,389 --> 03:55:46,560
years ago

5927
03:55:52,399 --> 03:55:58,070
yeah he lived to be 86.

5928
03:55:59,830 --> 03:55:59,349
and

5929
03:56:00,950 --> 03:55:59,840
anyway

5930
03:56:03,429 --> 03:56:00,960
[Music]

5931
03:56:05,030 --> 03:56:03,439
he and plenty saltimer saw some things i

5932
03:56:06,550 --> 03:56:05,040
don't know if they were told one either

5933
03:56:08,710 --> 03:56:06,560
or not

5934
03:56:11,510 --> 03:56:08,720
and i know i saw

5935
03:56:14,070 --> 03:56:11,520
one that looked like a campsite

5936
03:56:15,110 --> 03:56:14,080
about 11 o'clock at night one night

5937
03:56:17,189 --> 03:56:15,120
i went

5938
03:56:19,590 --> 03:56:17,199
this was a crooked road that went from

5939
03:56:22,309 --> 03:56:19,600
soldiers to our place

5940
03:56:27,510 --> 03:56:24,389
we had had a lot of sheep steaming i've

5941
03:56:31,269 --> 03:56:27,520
got a snapshot over there

5942
03:56:39,910 --> 03:56:33,750
you know a sign that said there would be

5943
03:56:39,920 --> 03:56:44,710
that they would pay uh

5944
03:56:49,269 --> 03:56:46,790
they would pay for information on

5945
03:56:51,510 --> 03:56:49,279
machine learning rewards

5946
03:56:53,110 --> 03:56:51,520
yes a reward

5947
03:56:54,870 --> 03:56:53,120
and uh

5948
03:56:57,110 --> 03:56:54,880
i went right home and called plenty and

5949
03:56:58,630 --> 03:56:57,120
of course got him out of bed

5950
03:57:00,389 --> 03:56:58,640
told him that

5951
03:57:02,389 --> 03:57:00,399
this campsite was

5952
03:57:04,630 --> 03:57:02,399
up above there had been an old rope

5953
03:57:07,189 --> 03:57:04,640
there

5954
03:57:10,950 --> 03:57:07,199
and penny says why that road washed out

5955
03:57:14,950 --> 03:57:12,710
and they went up there the next morning

5956
03:57:17,750 --> 03:57:14,960
and come around from the top side

5957
03:57:21,910 --> 03:57:17,760
and they said they found a dead

5958
03:57:21,920 --> 03:57:25,590
okay

5959
03:57:25,600 --> 03:57:32,550
was there evidence of a cat plan

5960
03:57:37,830 --> 03:57:34,550
you know i don't remember

5961
03:57:40,389 --> 03:57:37,840
but i do remember what looked to me as i

5962
03:57:43,110 --> 03:57:40,399
passed it like a

5963
03:57:46,710 --> 03:57:43,120
lights of ladder and lights that would

5964
03:57:49,429 --> 03:57:46,720
show through a tent

5965
03:57:53,030 --> 03:57:51,269
anybody moving around

5966
03:57:54,469 --> 03:57:53,040
no i didn't see anybody see i was

5967
03:57:56,710 --> 03:57:54,479
driving and

5968
03:57:58,389 --> 03:57:56,720
i didn't want to sit there if that was

5969
03:58:00,389 --> 03:57:58,399
sheep steelers

5970
03:58:01,910 --> 03:58:00,399
away from

5971
03:58:03,429 --> 03:58:01,920
and i didn't know what the road was

5972
03:58:06,229 --> 03:58:03,439
talking about

5973
03:58:09,189 --> 03:58:06,239
it was in phoenix pasture

5974
03:58:11,269 --> 03:58:09,199
then in our pasture there was um

5975
03:58:13,030 --> 03:58:11,279
uh a bluff

5976
03:58:15,429 --> 03:58:13,040
on

5977
03:58:16,389 --> 03:58:15,439
we called it the balina

5978
03:58:18,710 --> 03:58:16,399
and

5979
03:58:20,790 --> 03:58:18,720
to me it would be 100 feet down maybe

5980
03:58:22,950 --> 03:58:20,800
it's not more than 50.

5981
03:58:24,469 --> 03:58:22,960
but they had it fenced off so the

5982
03:58:27,030 --> 03:58:24,479
livestock wouldn't come up there and

5983
03:58:28,950 --> 03:58:27,040
graze and fall off

5984
03:58:31,269 --> 03:58:28,960
and it was very rough you couldn't get

5985
03:58:33,030 --> 03:58:31,279
up there with a pickup or even a jeep

5986
03:58:34,309 --> 03:58:33,040
because

5987
03:58:37,429 --> 03:58:34,319
pieces would

5988
03:58:39,189 --> 03:58:37,439
fall out and fall into the

5989
03:58:42,309 --> 03:58:39,199
canyon below

5990
03:58:45,030 --> 03:58:42,319
and that was above our house and as we

5991
03:58:45,910 --> 03:58:45,040
turned the corner to come in into a ball

5992
03:58:47,910 --> 03:58:45,920
game

5993
03:58:49,030 --> 03:58:47,920
one night and come in after the ball

5994
03:58:51,590 --> 03:58:49,040
game and

5995
03:58:57,269 --> 03:58:51,600
here was a light going down like from

5996
03:58:57,279 --> 03:59:00,630
it's just clear

5997
03:59:05,750 --> 03:59:03,110
i don't drink

5998
03:59:06,710 --> 03:59:05,760
i'm not just fast

5999
03:59:12,150 --> 03:59:06,720
uh

6000
03:59:14,389 --> 03:59:12,160
about the weather

6001
03:59:17,510 --> 03:59:14,399
no i wouldn't have gone if the weather

6002
03:59:21,510 --> 03:59:17,520
had been very threatening

6003
03:59:28,309 --> 03:59:25,110
we lived in a remote enough area

6004
03:59:30,389 --> 03:59:28,319
and had livestock that

6005
03:59:32,309 --> 03:59:30,399
oh i guess i'm

6006
03:59:33,830 --> 03:59:32,319
an old stick in the mud i just wouldn't

6007
03:59:36,469 --> 03:59:33,840
be gone

6008
03:59:37,990 --> 03:59:36,479
i'm not that crazy about sports my kids

6009
03:59:47,590 --> 03:59:38,000
were

6010
03:59:51,910 --> 03:59:49,670
you had an interesting time

6011
03:59:55,110 --> 03:59:51,920
you know i think so too

6012
03:59:59,590 --> 03:59:55,120
and we saw the first joe mcmahon oh yeah

6013
04:00:03,910 --> 04:00:02,469
and this is true

6014
04:00:06,389 --> 04:00:03,920
uh

6015
04:00:07,830 --> 04:00:06,399
my husband was one of those that

6016
04:00:09,189 --> 04:00:07,840
thought if you didn't want to get up at

6017
04:00:13,750 --> 04:00:09,199
3 o'clock in the morning you were

6018
04:00:25,510 --> 04:00:15,030
and

6019
04:00:27,510 --> 04:00:25,520
the size of that

6020
04:00:28,550 --> 04:00:27,520
out on the west side

6021
04:00:31,910 --> 04:00:28,560
and uh

6022
04:00:35,429 --> 04:00:31,920
he wanted me to see this explosion and i

6023
04:00:38,070 --> 04:00:35,439
didn't see it did not see any mushroom

6024
04:00:39,750 --> 04:00:38,080
we weren't a direct blind from

6025
04:00:41,030 --> 04:00:39,760
alamogordo

6026
04:00:43,189 --> 04:00:41,040
uh

6027
04:00:46,389 --> 04:00:43,199
behind the mountains

6028
04:00:48,309 --> 04:00:46,399
but and i and it was very white

6029
04:00:51,349 --> 04:00:48,319
and it went right straight up

6030
04:00:53,349 --> 04:00:51,359
if there was a mushroom i didn't see it

6031
04:00:55,990 --> 04:00:53,359
i got up and looked and went right back

6032
04:00:59,830 --> 04:00:57,670
what'd you think it was

6033
04:01:01,189 --> 04:00:59,840
uh we talked about it a minute or two

6034
04:01:03,030 --> 04:01:01,199
and thought

6035
04:01:06,309 --> 04:01:03,040
i think he suggested it might be an

6036
04:01:08,710 --> 04:01:06,319
ammunition zone because nobody

6037
04:01:10,950 --> 04:01:08,720
knew what was going on over there

6038
04:01:12,469 --> 04:01:10,960
it hadn't been announced

6039
04:01:13,590 --> 04:01:12,479
and

6040
04:01:16,150 --> 04:01:13,600
that's what

6041
04:01:18,070 --> 04:01:16,160
we decided it was and i thought well

6042
04:01:20,550 --> 04:01:18,080
it's an ammunition dump so what do you

6043
04:01:22,389 --> 04:01:20,560
got me up here for

6044
04:01:25,030 --> 04:01:22,399
so i went back to bed and i think i

6045
04:01:26,950 --> 04:01:25,040
think he went in and made coffee

6046
04:01:29,030 --> 04:01:26,960
have you heard any rumors about what was

6047
04:01:29,910 --> 04:01:29,040
going on

6048
04:01:36,309 --> 04:01:29,920
if

6049
04:01:42,229 --> 04:01:36,319
we had

6050
04:01:43,670 --> 04:01:42,239
and we also had

6051
04:01:44,630 --> 04:01:43,680
planes

6052
04:01:46,950 --> 04:01:44,640
that

6053
04:01:48,870 --> 04:01:46,960
we know they came out of the alamogordo

6054
04:01:49,750 --> 04:01:48,880
kind of base there

6055
04:01:58,309 --> 04:01:49,760
that

6056
04:02:07,990 --> 04:02:01,830
i out here i've got a government bullet

6057
04:02:12,070 --> 04:02:10,550
i've got it out there

6058
04:02:14,870 --> 04:02:12,080
in a box

6059
04:02:16,229 --> 04:02:14,880
i know where it is it'd take a while to

6060
04:02:19,349 --> 04:02:16,239
go find it

6061
04:02:23,590 --> 04:02:19,359
anyway uh the ranchers all really

6062
04:02:25,590 --> 04:02:24,309
that

6063
04:02:27,429 --> 04:02:25,600
these

6064
04:02:29,830 --> 04:02:27,439
young boys were doing this they were

6065
04:02:32,389 --> 04:02:29,840
buzzing windmills too at times

6066
04:02:35,510 --> 04:02:32,399
and they thought they were doing some of

6067
04:02:36,870 --> 04:02:35,520
it just on their own just to be funny

6068
04:02:40,790 --> 04:02:36,880
and

6069
04:02:42,790 --> 04:02:40,800
there was

6070
04:02:44,150 --> 04:02:42,800
i can't remember that man's name for

6071
04:02:46,469 --> 04:02:44,160
sure

6072
04:02:49,269 --> 04:02:46,479
anyway the gentleman

6073
04:02:50,870 --> 04:02:49,279
and he came in from el paso

6074
04:02:53,990 --> 04:02:50,880
and he told

6075
04:02:56,229 --> 04:02:54,000
them that it was not

6076
04:02:57,590 --> 04:02:56,239
his voice that was doing that it was a

6077
04:02:59,510 --> 04:02:57,600
group that was

6078
04:03:00,469 --> 04:02:59,520
uh assigned

6079
04:03:02,790 --> 04:03:00,479
to

6080
04:03:04,469 --> 04:03:02,800
experiment with the weather

6081
04:03:06,630 --> 04:03:04,479
and he gave us

6082
04:03:08,630 --> 04:03:06,640
the address

6083
04:03:10,309 --> 04:03:08,640
and what to ask for and we got these

6084
04:03:11,269 --> 04:03:10,319
bulletins this one that i'm talking

6085
04:03:13,110 --> 04:03:11,279
about

6086
04:03:14,630 --> 04:03:13,120
and anybody that asked for one after

6087
04:03:19,189 --> 04:03:14,640
that didn't get it

6088
04:03:23,670 --> 04:03:21,030
tell us about the experiments the

6089
04:03:26,550 --> 04:03:23,680
experiments were going all up and down

6090
04:03:28,950 --> 04:03:26,560
the rockies even into montana

6091
04:03:30,550 --> 04:03:28,960
and there was a big experiment station

6092
04:03:32,550 --> 04:03:30,560
right there at the mouth of the platte

6093
04:03:36,389 --> 04:03:32,560
river where they had when they had that

6094
04:03:36,399 --> 04:03:39,429
19.

6095
04:03:39,439 --> 04:03:44,229
60.

6096
04:03:51,429 --> 04:03:47,750
but this one was spotted too i mean

6097
04:03:53,030 --> 04:03:51,439
it it was named

6098
04:03:54,229 --> 04:03:53,040
we got the

6099
04:03:56,950 --> 04:03:54,239
first

6100
04:04:01,429 --> 04:03:56,960
government bulletins from

6101
04:04:05,110 --> 04:04:03,030
anderson

6102
04:04:12,070 --> 04:04:05,120
was

6103
04:04:12,080 --> 04:04:17,349
we were just a bunch of hicks

6104
04:04:21,590 --> 04:04:19,670
but they could see

6105
04:04:22,790 --> 04:04:21,600
some of these planes coming in they were

6106
04:04:24,870 --> 04:04:22,800
branded

6107
04:04:27,269 --> 04:04:24,880
calves or marking limbs or something one

6108
04:04:29,510 --> 04:04:27,279
time and a bunch of men

6109
04:04:31,670 --> 04:04:29,520
around all the guile and this

6110
04:04:33,189 --> 04:04:31,680
wasn't at our ranch but

6111
04:04:34,389 --> 04:04:33,199
all the neighbors got together to do

6112
04:04:35,910 --> 04:04:34,399
those things

6113
04:04:39,510 --> 04:04:35,920
and they could see

6114
04:04:44,550 --> 04:04:41,750
dumped out or spewed out

6115
04:04:46,469 --> 04:04:44,560
of these planes and planes going right

6116
04:04:57,510 --> 04:04:46,479
you might say into the clouds or they

6117
04:05:03,590 --> 04:04:59,269
you saw this happen

6118
04:05:05,189 --> 04:05:03,600
i didn't see that my husband was there

6119
04:05:07,830 --> 04:05:05,199
well i saw

6120
04:05:09,910 --> 04:05:07,840
i saw planes come in one time we were

6121
04:05:12,309 --> 04:05:09,920
stuck in that same draw that had that

6122
04:05:14,550 --> 04:05:12,319
bluff on it i was telling you about with

6123
04:05:19,189 --> 04:05:17,269
anyway the water had come down those

6124
04:05:25,030 --> 04:05:19,199
magazines are to be given away and you

6125
04:05:28,469 --> 04:05:26,550
we were stuck

6126
04:05:31,030 --> 04:05:28,479
and there was the biggest old black

6127
04:05:33,990 --> 04:05:31,040
cloud up above and

6128
04:05:36,469 --> 04:05:34,000
we needed rain and needed it back

6129
04:05:38,710 --> 04:05:36,479
and we were just working like crazy to

6130
04:05:40,790 --> 04:05:38,720
get back it was my husband and his

6131
04:05:43,590 --> 04:05:40,800
oldest son and i

6132
04:05:46,389 --> 04:05:43,600
to to get that pickup out the draw

6133
04:05:51,510 --> 04:05:46,399
because it would have washed it away

6134
04:05:55,670 --> 04:05:53,429
the planes come in

6135
04:05:57,910 --> 04:05:55,680
and finally somebody

6136
04:06:02,070 --> 04:05:57,920
noticed them there and those clouds just

6137
04:06:06,070 --> 04:06:05,269
this this uh government thing

6138
04:06:08,389 --> 04:06:06,080
uh

6139
04:06:10,389 --> 04:06:08,399
they said in so many words that they

6140
04:06:11,349 --> 04:06:10,399
were trying to send the moisture into

6141
04:06:24,950 --> 04:06:11,359
the

6142
04:06:24,960 --> 04:06:29,269
kansas city stockyards once

6143
04:06:29,279 --> 04:06:36,870
which served them right

6144
04:06:42,469 --> 04:06:38,950
i think that's all we really need

6145
04:06:44,950 --> 04:06:42,479
great done some wonderful work for us

6146
04:06:48,070 --> 04:06:44,960
well i hope it's been worth something i

6147
04:06:50,710 --> 04:06:48,080
think the american people ought to know

6148
04:06:53,349 --> 04:06:50,720
what's going on i can realize

6149
04:06:56,469 --> 04:06:53,359
one reason that this was kept secret to

6150
04:06:58,790 --> 04:06:56,479
this you remember arson well you're

6151
04:07:01,910 --> 04:06:58,800
you're too young well we read about the

6152
04:07:04,229 --> 04:07:01,920
newspapers i do

6153
04:07:06,710 --> 04:07:04,239
well anyway he had written a play right

6154
04:07:13,349 --> 04:07:06,720
and i think it was in new york city

6155
04:07:16,630 --> 04:07:15,189
people from the other worlds were coming

6156
04:07:18,229 --> 04:07:16,640
and

6157
04:07:19,910 --> 04:07:18,239
the people in new york city just

6158
04:07:22,070 --> 04:07:19,920
panicked

6159
04:07:24,550 --> 04:07:22,080
as they're well known to do people in

6160
04:07:26,229 --> 04:07:24,560
new york city

6161
04:07:28,070 --> 04:07:26,239
anyway

6162
04:07:30,790 --> 04:07:28,080
that's the only reason i can see why

6163
04:07:32,150 --> 04:07:30,800
they can't be honest

6164
04:07:33,510 --> 04:07:32,160
of course now they've had so much

6165
04:07:37,110 --> 04:07:33,520
practice

6166
04:07:37,120 --> 04:07:41,910
they have been

6167
04:07:41,920 --> 04:07:47,590
used to the idea of their superiority

6168
04:07:53,189 --> 04:07:51,110
and learning it over the rest of us

6169
04:07:55,510 --> 04:07:53,199
we're just a taxpayer we're just

6170
04:07:57,189 --> 04:07:55,520
children that have to be taken care of

6171
04:07:59,670 --> 04:07:57,199
yeah we're just the taxpayer of the

6172
04:08:02,070 --> 04:07:59,680
[\h__\h] gouge for more money so what do

6173
04:08:03,990 --> 04:08:02,080
you believe crashed up

6174
04:08:05,590 --> 04:08:04,000
by the foster edge age

6175
04:08:07,510 --> 04:08:05,600
what do i think

6176
04:08:09,349 --> 04:08:07,520
well for several years i really thought

6177
04:08:11,750 --> 04:08:09,359
that it might be something

6178
04:08:14,389 --> 04:08:11,760
that the russians were experimenting

6179
04:08:15,750 --> 04:08:14,399
with but i don't think so anymore

6180
04:08:17,349 --> 04:08:15,760
i think

6181
04:08:19,349 --> 04:08:17,359
that perhaps we have the greatest

6182
04:08:22,149 --> 04:08:19,359
technological

6183
04:08:24,710 --> 04:08:22,159
advances of anybody in the world

6184
04:08:29,349 --> 04:08:27,189
they haven't found any living people on

6185
04:08:37,429 --> 04:08:29,359
any other

6186
04:08:42,790 --> 04:08:41,189
yes unless we find a group of people in

6187
04:08:45,030 --> 04:08:42,800
this world that

6188
04:08:46,550 --> 04:08:45,040
are smarter than we know about

6189
04:08:52,469 --> 04:08:46,560
i don't think

6190
04:08:56,389 --> 04:08:54,469
i think that'll lure them

6191
04:08:57,269 --> 04:08:56,399
thank you very much for your time we

6192
04:08:59,110 --> 04:08:57,279
will

6193
04:09:01,269 --> 04:08:59,120
make a copy of the tape i won't promise

6194
04:09:02,870 --> 04:09:01,279
the quality will be very good and i'd

6195
04:09:04,710 --> 04:09:02,880
like to buy two

6196
04:09:05,670 --> 04:09:04,720
i'll make two copies and send them to

6197
04:09:07,670 --> 04:09:05,680
you

6198
04:09:09,189 --> 04:09:07,680
don't worry about yeah it's there it's

6199
04:09:11,670 --> 04:09:09,199
very simple to do and it doesn't cost

6200
04:09:14,149 --> 04:09:11,680
anything your pleasure yeah more

6201
04:09:16,950 --> 04:09:14,159
sort of our payment for you helping us

6202
04:09:22,950 --> 04:09:16,960
out well thank you i appreciate it very

6203
04:09:26,309 --> 04:09:24,870
and your name is

6204
04:09:30,790 --> 04:09:26,319
alex

6205
04:09:35,110 --> 04:09:32,950
and we're here in delhart texas on

6206
04:09:36,870 --> 04:09:35,120
october 1st

6207
04:09:38,229 --> 04:09:36,880
and you were a

6208
04:09:41,670 --> 04:09:38,239
niece

6209
04:09:43,750 --> 04:09:41,680
of barney barnett of his wife

6210
04:09:45,189 --> 04:09:43,760
and you did they did i understand that

6211
04:09:47,510 --> 04:09:45,199
they've kind of raised you for a while

6212
04:09:48,950 --> 04:09:47,520
or they were i was real close to them

6213
04:09:50,790 --> 04:09:48,960
they babysat me

6214
04:09:52,790 --> 04:09:50,800
all about uh

6215
04:09:55,990 --> 04:09:52,800
for two or three years

6216
04:09:57,590 --> 04:09:56,000
and they helped spoil me

6217
04:09:59,349 --> 04:09:57,600
they did not have any children of their

6218
04:10:00,389 --> 04:09:59,359
own

6219
04:10:03,030 --> 04:10:00,399
so

6220
04:10:04,950 --> 04:10:03,040
barney was a

6221
04:10:06,950 --> 04:10:04,960
civil engineer

6222
04:10:08,469 --> 04:10:06,960
for the soil conservation

6223
04:10:12,630 --> 04:10:08,479
service

6224
04:10:16,070 --> 04:10:14,790
soccer new mexico his office was since

6225
04:10:18,389 --> 04:10:16,080
the coral

6226
04:10:22,830 --> 04:10:18,399
yes okay

6227
04:10:26,790 --> 04:10:25,349
government you remember the story that

6228
04:10:28,870 --> 04:10:26,800
barney told

6229
04:10:30,309 --> 04:10:28,880
well i remember that he saw

6230
04:10:32,469 --> 04:10:30,319
one time i went to visit and i don't

6231
04:10:35,110 --> 04:10:32,479
know before my husband and i married or

6232
04:10:40,389 --> 04:10:35,120
after i don't recall the dates

6233
04:10:43,510 --> 04:10:42,149
he was out working in the field and i

6234
04:10:46,229 --> 04:10:43,520
understood that he

6235
04:10:47,349 --> 04:10:46,239
was down in the st augustine uh

6236
04:10:50,149 --> 04:10:47,359
plane

6237
04:10:51,990 --> 04:10:50,159
and he went over to where it was

6238
04:10:54,309 --> 04:10:52,000
and

6239
04:10:57,590 --> 04:10:54,319
where it fell

6240
04:11:02,309 --> 04:11:00,309
got nearly to the side and there was a

6241
04:11:04,309 --> 04:11:02,319
group of

6242
04:11:06,229 --> 04:11:04,319
people on a

6243
04:11:09,910 --> 04:11:06,239
geological

6244
04:11:12,790 --> 04:11:10,870
and

6245
04:11:14,710 --> 04:11:12,800
they were over there i i don't remember

6246
04:11:17,269 --> 04:11:14,720
how many people he said but they got

6247
04:11:18,550 --> 04:11:17,279
nearly up to this ufo but it was close

6248
04:11:20,630 --> 04:11:18,560
enough to

6249
04:11:23,910 --> 04:11:20,640
see some creatures or he said they

6250
04:11:24,950 --> 04:11:23,920
didn't look like human beings out there

6251
04:11:27,590 --> 04:11:24,960
and

6252
04:11:30,070 --> 04:11:27,600
along came a government

6253
04:11:32,229 --> 04:11:30,080
or some trucks

6254
04:11:34,790 --> 04:11:32,239
no with government you mean

6255
04:11:37,030 --> 04:11:34,800
i guess it was government you know as i

6256
04:11:39,030 --> 04:11:37,040
said it's been a long time ago

6257
04:11:40,710 --> 04:11:39,040
and someone came along and i understood

6258
04:11:44,550 --> 04:11:40,720
it

6259
04:11:49,590 --> 04:11:44,560
think he just turned in government

6260
04:11:54,469 --> 04:11:52,070
now that's all i recall

6261
04:11:55,910 --> 04:11:54,479
he wasn't specific on whether it was

6262
04:11:58,630 --> 04:11:55,920
army or

6263
04:12:00,710 --> 04:11:59,670
did he

6264
04:12:02,870 --> 04:12:00,720
have any clues to where the

6265
04:12:05,349 --> 04:12:02,880
archaeologist came from

6266
04:12:08,710 --> 04:12:05,359
he didn't say if he did i don't remember

6267
04:12:12,710 --> 04:12:10,630
did he ever describe the creatures to

6268
04:12:14,870 --> 04:12:12,720
you

6269
04:12:16,469 --> 04:12:14,880
i don't know god

6270
04:12:18,630 --> 04:12:16,479
he said did he give you a number do you

6271
04:12:20,389 --> 04:12:18,640
remember if there were

6272
04:12:21,349 --> 04:12:20,399
and they were all dead

6273
04:12:23,670 --> 04:12:21,359
so far

6274
04:12:25,269 --> 04:12:23,680
you know they weren't moving

6275
04:12:26,870 --> 04:12:25,279
so he never said that one might have

6276
04:12:28,469 --> 04:12:26,880
been alive or might have been well i

6277
04:12:31,750 --> 04:12:28,479
don't think he got that close to him you

6278
04:12:34,229 --> 04:12:31,760
know i mean he didn't get right

6279
04:12:36,149 --> 04:12:34,239
up to the side

6280
04:12:39,269 --> 04:12:36,159
seems like there was a fence

6281
04:12:44,309 --> 04:12:39,279
and he they blocked it off

6282
04:12:48,070 --> 04:12:45,990
you don't know

6283
04:12:51,030 --> 04:12:48,080
exactly where this was

6284
04:12:51,040 --> 04:12:55,830
you think it was up in the uh

6285
04:13:00,229 --> 04:12:57,750
i feel that it was up in the daddle or

6286
04:13:02,469 --> 04:13:00,239
magdaleno but he turned as the high

6287
04:13:03,910 --> 04:13:02,479
country the high country

6288
04:13:05,830 --> 04:13:03,920
and he didn't give me any clue as to

6289
04:13:07,830 --> 04:13:05,840
what side of the

6290
04:13:09,189 --> 04:13:07,840
planes it would have been on or

6291
04:13:10,870 --> 04:13:09,199
whether it was closer to daddle or

6292
04:13:16,389 --> 04:13:10,880
magdalena

6293
04:13:19,590 --> 04:13:18,389
did he ever describe the object itself

6294
04:13:21,110 --> 04:13:19,600
to you

6295
04:13:22,309 --> 04:13:21,120
say anything about that

6296
04:13:24,309 --> 04:13:22,319
do you know

6297
04:13:25,590 --> 04:13:24,319
i don't you know what

6298
04:13:26,950 --> 04:13:25,600
since you've heard about all these

6299
04:13:29,429 --> 04:13:26,960
others and things

6300
04:13:31,910 --> 04:13:29,439
you don't really realize i don't recall

6301
04:13:34,790 --> 04:13:31,920
what he said or what

6302
04:13:37,670 --> 04:13:34,800
has been put into my mind or you know

6303
04:13:43,830 --> 04:13:37,680
not that anybody's put anything down

6304
04:13:47,990 --> 04:13:45,750
and things that you've talked about

6305
04:13:51,429 --> 04:13:48,000
and there's been talk of ufos

6306
04:13:56,469 --> 04:13:54,229
but your your memories that are just

6307
04:13:58,710 --> 04:13:56,479
pretty vague about what he'd said that's

6308
04:14:00,309 --> 04:13:58,720
right except that i do know that he said

6309
04:14:03,750 --> 04:14:00,319
he saw beautiful

6310
04:14:05,429 --> 04:14:03,760
and that there were creatures in it

6311
04:14:08,070 --> 04:14:05,439
or whatever

6312
04:14:09,990 --> 04:14:08,080
so and i believe he did describe it as a

6313
04:14:11,269 --> 04:14:10,000
round thing but you know

6314
04:14:14,070 --> 04:14:11,279
i don't

6315
04:14:18,070 --> 04:14:15,750
um

6316
04:14:19,910 --> 04:14:18,080
do you remember do you recall now in the

6317
04:14:22,389 --> 04:14:19,920
subsequent years what his feelings about

6318
04:14:23,990 --> 04:14:22,399
ufos were no i don't even recall what's

6319
04:14:25,510 --> 04:14:24,000
talking about

6320
04:14:26,149 --> 04:14:25,520
what is your what's your feelings about

6321
04:14:27,349 --> 04:14:26,159
him

6322
04:14:28,229 --> 04:14:27,359
what do you think

6323
04:14:31,189 --> 04:14:28,239
well

6324
04:14:33,990 --> 04:14:31,199
since he saw one i know that it's true

6325
04:14:34,870 --> 04:14:34,000
so you believe based on what barney told

6326
04:14:38,229 --> 04:14:34,880
you

6327
04:14:39,429 --> 04:14:38,239
that flying saucers are real and they're

6328
04:14:41,030 --> 04:14:39,439
piloted by

6329
04:14:43,189 --> 04:14:41,040
beings from other planets is that a fair

6330
04:14:44,229 --> 04:14:43,199
assessment i don't know who they're

6331
04:14:46,630 --> 04:14:44,239
uh

6332
04:14:49,110 --> 04:14:46,640
i just know that they're real

6333
04:14:51,110 --> 04:14:49,120
or this yes but you trust anything

6334
04:14:52,790 --> 04:14:51,120
barney told you on that point

6335
04:14:55,429 --> 04:14:52,800
was he ever known to

6336
04:14:56,950 --> 04:14:55,439
play practical jokes or spin tall tales

6337
04:14:58,950 --> 04:14:56,960
or anything like that oh i don't know

6338
04:15:01,349 --> 04:14:58,960
that he's like practical jokes but not

6339
04:15:05,349 --> 04:15:01,359
spin talk tales

6340
04:15:06,389 --> 04:15:05,359
so he was ready but this he was serious

6341
04:15:07,510 --> 04:15:06,399
this was

6342
04:15:09,269 --> 04:15:07,520
serious

6343
04:15:13,510 --> 04:15:09,279
did it ever come up more than one time

6344
04:15:18,550 --> 04:15:14,790
so

6345
04:15:28,389 --> 04:15:18,560
i

6346
04:15:30,550 --> 04:15:28,399
recall yourself

6347
04:15:32,790 --> 04:15:30,560
um

6348
04:15:34,950 --> 04:15:32,800
so you really have no clue as to when

6349
04:15:38,469 --> 04:15:34,960
he mentioned this to you

6350
04:15:41,910 --> 04:15:38,479
other than it may have been in the 50s

6351
04:15:41,920 --> 04:15:51,910
middle or latter 40s or early 50s

6352
04:15:55,269 --> 04:15:53,670
so it might have been 49 or 48 so it

6353
04:15:56,710 --> 04:15:55,279
might have been right after close to the

6354
04:15:58,790 --> 04:15:56,720
time it happened

6355
04:15:59,990 --> 04:15:58,800
do you remember the context i'm sure you

6356
04:16:03,189 --> 04:16:00,000
don't remember the context of the

6357
04:16:04,950 --> 04:16:03,199
conversation how it came up at all

6358
04:16:06,229 --> 04:16:04,960
but it made enough impression upon you

6359
04:16:09,110 --> 04:16:06,239
that you remembered at least a few of

6360
04:16:18,229 --> 04:16:11,670
anything else that you can think of that

6361
04:16:20,950 --> 04:16:19,030
you know

6362
04:16:23,349 --> 04:16:20,960
it seems ridiculous that we didn't

6363
04:16:25,349 --> 04:16:23,359
discuss it later and we may have i don't

6364
04:16:26,550 --> 04:16:25,359
recall when we're all busy and you know

6365
04:16:29,349 --> 04:16:26,560
you'll see them

6366
04:16:32,229 --> 04:16:29,359
maybe a day or two at a time

6367
04:16:35,110 --> 04:16:32,239
what given what you know what uh

6368
04:16:37,750 --> 04:16:35,120
barney barnett said to you

6369
04:16:39,269 --> 04:16:37,760
what's your feeling of uh the government

6370
04:16:40,630 --> 04:16:39,279
claims that there's no such thing no

6371
04:16:42,469 --> 04:16:40,640
such thing no

6372
04:16:43,189 --> 04:16:42,479
validity oh

6373
04:16:46,790 --> 04:16:43,199
i

6374
04:16:50,309 --> 04:16:46,800
know the government

6375
04:16:57,110 --> 04:16:51,510
do you think the government's hiding

6376
04:17:03,510 --> 04:16:59,269
it's obvious if they're the ones who

6377
04:17:07,189 --> 04:17:05,750
but barney did mention the archaeologist

6378
04:17:15,110 --> 04:17:07,199
did he mention anybody else who might

6379
04:17:18,550 --> 04:17:16,149
they don't have any clues to how many

6380
04:17:19,910 --> 04:17:18,560
people were involved nobody else there

6381
04:17:24,469 --> 04:17:19,920
that uh

6382
04:17:29,750 --> 04:17:27,990
okay well uh this was sure short that's

6383
04:17:31,670 --> 04:17:29,760
right that's why you're going no that's

6384
04:17:34,469 --> 04:17:31,680
why i put it on the end of the day

6385
04:17:35,910 --> 04:17:34,479
so you don't know about it

6386
04:17:39,110 --> 04:17:35,920
but you have no doubt the body was

6387
04:17:40,790 --> 04:17:39,120
telling you the truth about this

6388
04:17:42,229 --> 04:17:40,800
did barney ever have trouble with the

6389
04:17:43,510 --> 04:17:42,239
government afterwards maybe with the

6390
04:17:45,030 --> 04:17:43,520
internal revenue service or anything

6391
04:17:46,229 --> 04:17:45,040
like that nothing like that that you can

6392
04:17:48,149 --> 04:17:46,239
remember

6393
04:17:51,269 --> 04:17:48,159
no harassment from from the government

6394
04:17:52,950 --> 04:17:51,279
no harassment of any kind

6395
04:17:55,309 --> 04:17:52,960
and he retired from the soil

6396
04:17:58,870 --> 04:17:55,319
conservation commission i think in about

6397
04:18:02,870 --> 04:17:58,880
1956 because of poor house

6398
04:18:17,030 --> 04:18:02,880
and then he did he stay in socorro

6399
04:18:17,040 --> 04:18:29,030
and her health was bad

6400
04:18:34,389 --> 04:18:31,110
probably 76.

6401
04:18:35,990 --> 04:18:34,399
did she ever mention this at all

6402
04:18:37,349 --> 04:18:36,000
never ever brought it up

6403
04:18:40,870 --> 04:18:37,359
no i don't think so you know you just

6404
04:18:43,429 --> 04:18:40,880
went on with what the present

6405
04:18:45,830 --> 04:18:43,439
wasn't really that major of an event in

6406
04:18:49,189 --> 04:18:45,840
anybody's life that i can't deposit and

6407
04:18:52,550 --> 04:18:49,199
even though you can't imagine it

6408
04:18:54,070 --> 04:18:52,560
that now i can't imagine that it's

6409
04:18:55,830 --> 04:18:54,080
played down so we really didn't

6410
04:18:57,030 --> 04:18:55,840
understand

6411
04:18:59,110 --> 04:18:57,040
okay

6412
04:18:59,990 --> 04:18:59,120
well i even inquired of my friends back

6413
04:19:01,110 --> 04:19:00,000
then

6414
04:19:02,469 --> 04:19:01,120
you know

6415
04:19:03,990 --> 04:19:02,479
we might have come home and told

6416
04:19:05,429 --> 04:19:04,000
somebody that

6417
04:19:07,030 --> 04:19:05,439
they don't remember me telling of course

6418
04:19:09,510 --> 04:19:07,040
they might have poor memories inside

6419
04:19:13,269 --> 04:19:11,830
all right well i think i probably

6420
04:19:15,269 --> 04:19:13,279
just say taking up enough of your time

6421
04:19:16,630 --> 04:19:15,279
so i'm gonna next time i'll turn off the

6422
04:19:18,229 --> 04:19:16,640
camera here

6423
04:19:19,750 --> 04:19:18,239
it worked out real well didn't it i

6424
04:19:38,390 --> 04:19:19,760
don't know it wasn't horrible or

6425
04:19:38,400 --> 04:19:48,710
[Music]

6426
04:19:53,750 --> 04:19:51,750
oh oh sure yeah well that's uh east of

6427
04:19:55,590 --> 04:19:53,760
uh east of richmond it's out near bird

6428
04:20:01,830 --> 04:19:55,600
airport yeah i think

6429
04:20:05,349 --> 04:20:03,670
yeah all right

6430
04:20:08,710 --> 04:20:05,359
and we got speed

6431
04:20:11,429 --> 04:20:08,720
okay uh fellas tell me about uh

6432
04:20:14,469 --> 04:20:11,439
this period in 1947 during the summer

6433
04:20:16,710 --> 04:20:14,479
when you came to see your father

6434
04:20:19,670 --> 04:20:16,720
what did your father do in roswell

6435
04:20:22,550 --> 04:20:19,680
my father was the sheriff of chancellor

6436
04:20:27,910 --> 04:20:25,110
they lived in

6437
04:20:29,670 --> 04:20:27,920
the courthouse the

6438
04:20:31,510 --> 04:20:29,680
jail and the

6439
04:20:34,389 --> 04:20:31,520
sheriff's quarters

6440
04:20:37,349 --> 04:20:34,399
were in the same building and

6441
04:20:40,630 --> 04:20:37,359
they lived on the downstairs floor

6442
04:20:41,750 --> 04:20:40,640
and then downstairs was an office

6443
04:20:43,030 --> 04:20:41,760
with

6444
04:20:44,550 --> 04:20:43,040
two rooms

6445
04:20:48,710 --> 04:20:44,560
and uh

6446
04:20:53,110 --> 04:20:51,030
jail was upstairs

6447
04:20:56,309 --> 04:20:53,120
and prisoners were taken into the office

6448
04:20:57,830 --> 04:20:56,319
and then up the steps to the chair

6449
04:21:00,309 --> 04:20:57,840
and what were you were you living with

6450
04:21:02,790 --> 04:21:00,319
your folks in 19 no i wasn't living with

6451
04:21:05,349 --> 04:21:02,800
them i was there visiting

6452
04:21:13,030 --> 04:21:08,469
my husband and i were both students

6453
04:21:15,510 --> 04:21:13,040
after world war ii in las vegas

6454
04:21:16,710 --> 04:21:15,520
in highlands university

6455
04:21:18,950 --> 04:21:16,720
and

6456
04:21:21,670 --> 04:21:18,960
we were there several years

6457
04:21:24,149 --> 04:21:21,680
after world war ii

6458
04:21:27,269 --> 04:21:24,159
to finish up our degrees which we had

6459
04:21:29,750 --> 04:21:27,279
started before before

6460
04:21:31,670 --> 04:21:29,760
our education had been interrupted by

6461
04:21:34,870 --> 04:21:31,680
world war two

6462
04:21:38,469 --> 04:21:34,880
so we went back but i sometimes did not

6463
04:21:41,830 --> 04:21:38,479
go quite as much because i had a young

6464
04:21:46,070 --> 04:21:44,229
he liked to stay with my mother

6465
04:21:48,149 --> 04:21:46,080
and if i was busy going to school and we

6466
04:21:50,790 --> 04:21:48,159
also wanted a little business

6467
04:21:51,590 --> 04:21:50,800
and we worked it in and

6468
04:21:53,189 --> 04:21:51,600
so

6469
04:21:55,269 --> 04:21:53,199
uh

6470
04:21:57,750 --> 04:21:55,279
he'd stay there and probably he'd been

6471
04:21:59,269 --> 04:21:57,760
there for a while or i don't know

6472
04:22:02,389 --> 04:21:59,279
whether at that point time i was

6473
04:22:04,550 --> 04:22:02,399
actually in school or just

6474
04:22:07,590 --> 04:22:04,560
going back and forth and

6475
04:22:13,269 --> 04:22:09,349
so you came visit your father in his

6476
04:22:14,950 --> 04:22:13,279
office one day in july

6477
04:22:17,510 --> 04:22:14,960
yes i came to

6478
04:22:20,950 --> 04:22:17,520
i uh

6479
04:22:22,950 --> 04:22:20,960
was reading the uh

6480
04:22:23,750 --> 04:22:22,960
you could just walk into his office from

6481
04:22:26,149 --> 04:22:23,760
the

6482
04:22:30,070 --> 04:22:26,159
sheriff's orders

6483
04:22:32,070 --> 04:22:30,080
and uh i the paper came out with this

6484
04:22:33,910 --> 04:22:32,080
and i didn't read the paper what do you

6485
04:22:36,870 --> 04:22:33,920
remember about the papers

6486
04:22:38,950 --> 04:22:36,880
about the headlines and the

6487
04:22:40,149 --> 04:22:38,960
flying saucers

6488
04:22:42,710 --> 04:22:40,159
and

6489
04:22:46,469 --> 04:22:42,720
i don't remember what he told me about

6490
04:22:48,790 --> 04:22:46,479
it before then or not i don't know

6491
04:22:51,110 --> 04:22:48,800
but i did was so interested and i it's

6492
04:22:53,830 --> 04:22:51,120
some way inside of me and i loved it and

6493
04:22:57,269 --> 04:22:53,840
i wanted it to be true and

6494
04:22:59,750 --> 04:22:57,279
i went in to talk to him about it and

6495
04:23:01,510 --> 04:22:59,760
sometimes i talked to him in the

6496
04:23:04,389 --> 04:23:01,520
i went into the office and talked to him

6497
04:23:07,910 --> 04:23:06,309
and he was getting all these phones he

6498
04:23:09,429 --> 04:23:07,920
had

6499
04:23:10,950 --> 04:23:09,439
i remembered he came into the kitchen

6500
04:23:13,510 --> 04:23:10,960
and told about that he'd been up all

6501
04:23:15,590 --> 04:23:13,520
night with the phone calls and that he

6502
04:23:19,189 --> 04:23:15,600
had just talked to london england that

6503
04:23:19,990 --> 04:23:19,199
he was very excited about that because

6504
04:23:22,070 --> 04:23:20,000
well

6505
04:23:23,910 --> 04:23:22,080
the distance and the times you know it's

6506
04:23:26,790 --> 04:23:23,920
not the same as

6507
04:23:28,950 --> 04:23:26,800
faxing something they're sending it long

6508
04:23:31,590 --> 04:23:28,960
distance now likely the world was a lot

6509
04:23:32,389 --> 04:23:31,600
bigger yes it was

6510
04:23:34,550 --> 04:23:32,399
so

6511
04:23:35,429 --> 04:23:34,560
um

6512
04:23:37,189 --> 04:23:35,439
and

6513
04:23:38,870 --> 04:23:37,199
you know another thing about the world

6514
04:23:40,870 --> 04:23:38,880
then

6515
04:23:43,830 --> 04:23:40,880
uh world war

6516
04:23:45,990 --> 04:23:43,840
they hadn't really revealed things that

6517
04:23:48,710 --> 04:23:46,000
we all the things hadn't been revealed

6518
04:23:51,750 --> 04:23:48,720
from world war ii now in america i know

6519
04:23:53,429 --> 04:23:51,760
we weren't bombed but we didn't have any

6520
04:23:54,950 --> 04:23:53,439
they didn't build any washing machines

6521
04:23:58,309 --> 04:23:54,960
they didn't build any new cars they

6522
04:23:59,910 --> 04:23:58,319
didn't build anything dryers

6523
04:24:05,590 --> 04:23:59,920
they nothing

6524
04:24:09,670 --> 04:24:07,670
military and

6525
04:24:12,149 --> 04:24:09,680
weapons and those things so there were

6526
04:24:13,670 --> 04:24:12,159
no so we had to wait a while to get a

6527
04:24:14,950 --> 04:24:13,680
car we didn't wait a while to get a

6528
04:24:16,309 --> 04:24:14,960
washing machine because they just went

6529
04:24:18,070 --> 04:24:16,319
on the market

6530
04:24:20,070 --> 04:24:18,080
so you've read about this flying saucer

6531
04:24:21,189 --> 04:24:20,080
incident in the newspaper and you went

6532
04:24:25,910 --> 04:24:21,199
and asked

6533
04:24:32,229 --> 04:24:29,670
i asked him um do you think this is true

6534
04:24:34,950 --> 04:24:32,239
and uh he said i don't know why grazzle

6535
04:24:36,550 --> 04:24:34,960
will come all the way in here and rock

6536
04:24:39,030 --> 04:24:36,560
that stuff

6537
04:24:41,590 --> 04:24:39,040
if it hadn't been

6538
04:24:42,790 --> 04:24:41,600
something important and that he didn't

6539
04:24:44,790 --> 04:24:42,800
that he

6540
04:24:45,910 --> 04:24:44,800
had to be something

6541
04:24:48,149 --> 04:24:45,920
that he

6542
04:24:51,910 --> 04:24:48,159
thought

6543
04:24:53,269 --> 04:24:51,920
and he had sent deputies out to see

6544
04:24:56,710 --> 04:24:53,279
about it

6545
04:25:02,309 --> 04:24:59,830
he was he thought i'd see so originally

6546
04:25:04,309 --> 04:25:02,319
he thought it was true but he didn't

6547
04:25:05,750 --> 04:25:04,319
have any information he was trying to

6548
04:25:08,630 --> 04:25:05,760
send the deputies

6549
04:25:10,710 --> 04:25:08,640
to get some more information

6550
04:25:13,030 --> 04:25:10,720
about this but the first thing he did

6551
04:25:14,469 --> 04:25:13,040
was call the air force because that

6552
04:25:16,790 --> 04:25:14,479
seemed

6553
04:25:18,710 --> 04:25:16,800
to be important to him and he's i said

6554
04:25:20,630 --> 04:25:18,720
why did you call them and he said

6555
04:25:23,349 --> 04:25:20,640
because i have an agreement with them

6556
04:25:26,630 --> 04:25:23,359
that if any airman is in trouble in

6557
04:25:29,990 --> 04:25:26,640
roswell any kind of problem about any

6558
04:25:31,830 --> 04:25:30,000
uh airplane or flight or anything like

6559
04:25:34,070 --> 04:25:31,840
that i call them immediately we don't

6560
04:25:35,830 --> 04:25:34,080
have room in our jail for those and they

6561
04:25:38,149 --> 04:25:35,840
come and take care of them we'll just

6562
04:25:40,469 --> 04:25:38,159
keep them a little while

6563
04:25:42,149 --> 04:25:40,479
they just held them until the families

6564
04:25:43,910 --> 04:25:42,159
got there and

6565
04:25:46,830 --> 04:25:43,920
the flight is the same if you felt that

6566
04:25:50,229 --> 04:25:46,840
this had something to do

6567
04:25:52,790 --> 04:25:50,239
here that was their business he thought

6568
04:25:55,269 --> 04:25:52,800
that was there

6569
04:25:59,189 --> 04:25:55,279
what happened did he say he sent me

6570
04:26:01,670 --> 04:26:00,309
and

6571
04:26:04,070 --> 04:26:01,680
i think

6572
04:26:06,149 --> 04:26:04,080
i'm of the opinion that he sent

6573
04:26:07,349 --> 04:26:06,159
the deputies out once

6574
04:26:08,550 --> 04:26:07,359
and that

6575
04:26:10,469 --> 04:26:08,560
they

6576
04:26:14,830 --> 04:26:10,479
um

6577
04:26:21,429 --> 04:26:19,670
black area blackened area the grass the

6578
04:26:23,990 --> 04:26:21,439
rangeland

6579
04:26:25,990 --> 04:26:24,000
and then they came back because it was

6580
04:26:28,229 --> 04:26:26,000
dark

6581
04:26:31,830 --> 04:26:28,239
and then when he

6582
04:26:34,229 --> 04:26:31,840
when they came back

6583
04:26:35,990 --> 04:26:34,239
he had to wait for the next day to send

6584
04:26:37,910 --> 04:26:36,000
them back again

6585
04:26:40,070 --> 04:26:37,920
to find something else and when they

6586
04:26:43,429 --> 04:26:40,080
went back again

6587
04:26:44,790 --> 04:26:43,439
uh the army had blocked it off

6588
04:26:48,870 --> 04:26:44,800
and

6589
04:26:51,990 --> 04:26:48,880
the army of course just being clarified

6590
04:26:53,510 --> 04:26:52,000
yesterday but it was called the army

6591
04:26:56,229 --> 04:26:53,520
again

6592
04:26:58,389 --> 04:26:56,239
and see

6593
04:27:00,309 --> 04:26:58,399
i think brazil told them how to get

6594
04:27:02,229 --> 04:27:00,319
there

6595
04:27:04,149 --> 04:27:02,239
but didn't

6596
04:27:06,070 --> 04:27:04,159
but they

6597
04:27:07,910 --> 04:27:06,080
you know there's a long distance between

6598
04:27:11,349 --> 04:27:07,920
russell and

6599
04:27:15,510 --> 04:27:11,359
corona you can't see in somebody

6600
04:27:17,910 --> 04:27:15,520
uh how can him search over a large ranch

6601
04:27:19,349 --> 04:27:17,920
or look for anything and

6602
04:27:21,590 --> 04:27:19,359
it happens

6603
04:27:23,670 --> 04:27:21,600
i don't know what time they went but it

6604
04:27:26,229 --> 04:27:23,680
takes time right

6605
04:27:28,149 --> 04:27:26,239
so the deputies were turned away by the

6606
04:27:31,349 --> 04:27:28,159
army air force

6607
04:27:36,630 --> 04:27:33,830
i think it was then the next day that

6608
04:27:39,990 --> 04:27:36,640
the army air force all came

6609
04:27:42,149 --> 04:27:40,000
to the office and my sister came to him

6610
04:27:45,030 --> 04:27:42,159
and what happened when you got to your

6611
04:27:47,830 --> 04:27:45,040
friend's office listen uh we uh we come

6612
04:27:49,910 --> 04:27:47,840
in and we have a small child and roswell

6613
04:27:54,229 --> 04:27:49,920
was the shopping place for us to come

6614
04:27:59,510 --> 04:27:56,950
and when we arrived why

6615
04:28:02,229 --> 04:27:59,520
i noticed that there were jeeps and some

6616
04:28:03,110 --> 04:28:02,239
people you know from the air force there

6617
04:28:05,670 --> 04:28:03,120
and

6618
04:28:08,469 --> 04:28:05,680
of course i went right in with my small

6619
04:28:10,870 --> 04:28:08,479
child and my husband jay went into the

6620
04:28:13,269 --> 04:28:10,880
office and he said to my father what's

6621
04:28:15,349 --> 04:28:13,279
going on george and he said well we've

6622
04:28:16,229 --> 04:28:15,359
had a man come in

6623
04:28:18,309 --> 04:28:16,239
um

6624
04:28:19,830 --> 04:28:18,319
saying that there is a fine saucer and

6625
04:28:21,510 --> 04:28:19,840
bringing a piece of

6626
04:28:24,149 --> 04:28:21,520
things and said

6627
04:28:25,750 --> 04:28:24,159
i don't know what it is and said we're

6628
04:28:29,349 --> 04:28:25,760
investigating it

6629
04:28:30,950 --> 04:28:29,359
and uh he said uh what was it and he

6630
04:28:33,990 --> 04:28:30,960
said well

6631
04:28:36,389 --> 04:28:34,000
it looked like a burnt grass

6632
04:28:39,189 --> 04:28:36,399
grass out there and

6633
04:28:41,510 --> 04:28:39,199
my husband came back into the office i

6634
04:28:43,510 --> 04:28:41,520
mean back into the kitchen my mother

6635
04:28:45,030 --> 04:28:43,520
prepared the meals for the prisoners and

6636
04:28:46,149 --> 04:28:45,040
we were in the kitchen

6637
04:28:49,830 --> 04:28:46,159
and

6638
04:28:50,870 --> 04:28:49,840
we didn't discuss it anymore or anything

6639
04:28:53,830 --> 04:28:50,880
and

6640
04:28:56,229 --> 04:28:53,840
as the years went along mother would say

6641
04:28:59,590 --> 04:28:56,239
oh remember the time when we had the

6642
04:29:01,110 --> 04:28:59,600
blind saucer in roswell and the papers

6643
04:29:03,990 --> 04:29:01,120
were out and

6644
04:29:07,030 --> 04:29:04,000
where i live i'm very isolated i don't i

6645
04:29:09,429 --> 04:29:07,040
go 20 miles from my mail one way and 20

6646
04:29:11,910 --> 04:29:09,439
miles back so i'm not accustomed to

6647
04:29:14,149 --> 04:29:11,920
getting a newspaper very often and i

6648
04:29:15,429 --> 04:29:14,159
have no telephones i have no electricity

6649
04:29:17,590 --> 04:29:15,439
at that time

6650
04:29:20,389 --> 04:29:17,600
because we're so we're improving good

6651
04:29:23,510 --> 04:29:20,399
area so it was another week's evening

6652
04:29:25,750 --> 04:29:23,520
before i probably went back to town and

6653
04:29:28,790 --> 04:29:25,760
knew anything too particular about it

6654
04:29:30,229 --> 04:29:28,800
because i didn't stay all night away and

6655
04:29:32,469 --> 04:29:30,239
turned around and came back because we

6656
04:29:33,590 --> 04:29:32,479
had milk cows that you have to get home

6657
04:29:36,710 --> 04:29:33,600
too

6658
04:29:39,429 --> 04:29:36,720
at night so i really was not

6659
04:29:41,269 --> 04:29:39,439
as familiar with it as phyllis because

6660
04:29:45,670 --> 04:29:41,279
she was staying all night there because

6661
04:29:47,750 --> 04:29:45,680
she was at was going to school

6662
04:29:49,990 --> 04:29:47,760
but as the years went along mother would

6663
04:29:53,510 --> 04:29:50,000
always say and i also know

6664
04:29:54,710 --> 04:29:53,520
of an article that she wrote that said

6665
04:29:58,309 --> 04:29:54,720
uh

6666
04:29:59,910 --> 04:29:58,319
we do not as did to this day know

6667
04:30:02,790 --> 04:29:59,920
that there whether it was a flying

6668
04:30:06,149 --> 04:30:02,800
saucer or what because they told us my

6669
04:30:08,229 --> 04:30:06,159
husband mr wilcox which he would say

6670
04:30:09,030 --> 04:30:08,239
don't you say a word

6671
04:30:11,590 --> 04:30:09,040
so

6672
04:30:13,429 --> 04:30:11,600
he didn't and he was very

6673
04:30:15,590 --> 04:30:13,439
calm about i mean he just didn't say

6674
04:30:17,349 --> 04:30:15,600
anything who told him not to say it uh

6675
04:30:18,630 --> 04:30:17,359
the air force did when they came and

6676
04:30:21,349 --> 04:30:18,640
picked up the

6677
04:30:23,910 --> 04:30:21,359
piece or whatever they did she said they

6678
04:30:26,630 --> 04:30:23,920
uh reprimanded him that's what the words

6679
04:30:27,510 --> 04:30:26,640
were in the little article she wrote

6680
04:30:29,030 --> 04:30:27,520
and

6681
04:30:31,830 --> 04:30:29,040
i had it because

6682
04:30:34,229 --> 04:30:31,840
she wrote a great deal

6683
04:30:36,710 --> 04:30:34,239
and she wrote an article on their four

6684
04:30:38,630 --> 04:30:36,720
years at the county jail they were not

6685
04:30:41,349 --> 04:30:38,640
in the county jail but that's what she

6686
04:30:43,510 --> 04:30:41,359
said four years in the county jail but

6687
04:30:46,630 --> 04:30:43,520
they were there as

6688
04:30:49,510 --> 04:30:46,640
working people in the jail and

6689
04:30:51,830 --> 04:30:49,520
so on the very back page of her

6690
04:30:54,790 --> 04:30:51,840
article she wrote

6691
04:30:56,790 --> 04:30:54,800
the day the flying saucer was in roswell

6692
04:30:58,630 --> 04:30:56,800
new mexico do you remember what that day

6693
04:31:01,830 --> 04:30:58,640
when she said that day was now the date

6694
04:31:04,950 --> 04:31:01,840
was not on the uh paper that's the

6695
04:31:06,790 --> 04:31:04,960
reason i don't and uh

6696
04:31:09,349 --> 04:31:06,800
she said in 19

6697
04:31:12,870 --> 04:31:09,359
on the outside of this

6698
04:31:16,469 --> 04:31:12,880
article said i uh sent this article to

6699
04:31:18,149 --> 04:31:16,479
the reader's digest in 1980 see she had

6700
04:31:20,149 --> 04:31:18,159
typed it over because she had a whole

6701
04:31:21,429 --> 04:31:20,159
bunch of typewritten

6702
04:31:23,429 --> 04:31:21,439
things and

6703
04:31:26,309 --> 04:31:23,439
but they did not accept it that was

6704
04:31:28,790 --> 04:31:26,319
written on the outside she also said

6705
04:31:32,070 --> 04:31:28,800
that she uh i don't know whether she

6706
04:31:35,189 --> 04:31:32,080
took the article or she spoke to the

6707
04:31:38,550 --> 04:31:35,199
historical society in mosul it said uh

6708
04:31:43,110 --> 04:31:38,560
his rosal historical society in austin

6709
04:31:45,110 --> 04:31:43,120
new mexico on in 1980 so she might have

6710
04:31:47,110 --> 04:31:45,120
taken an article over to the historical

6711
04:31:49,269 --> 04:31:47,120
site i do not know

6712
04:31:51,269 --> 04:31:49,279
did your father describe to either of

6713
04:31:53,830 --> 04:31:51,279
you what this material that

6714
04:31:56,309 --> 04:31:53,840
brazil brought in looked like yeah

6715
04:31:59,110 --> 04:31:56,319
he said um

6716
04:32:04,070 --> 04:31:59,120
he brought some material within

6717
04:32:05,030 --> 04:32:04,080
some junk like i don't know what it is

6718
04:32:10,070 --> 04:32:05,040
that

6719
04:32:11,030 --> 04:32:10,080
my work just about 3-4

6720
04:32:12,389 --> 04:32:11,040
and

6721
04:32:15,269 --> 04:32:12,399
about the

6722
04:32:16,149 --> 04:32:15,279
air force warning that also

6723
04:32:18,870 --> 04:32:16,159
uh

6724
04:32:21,670 --> 04:32:18,880
my mother had written on there this is a

6725
04:32:24,710 --> 04:32:21,680
real and true story

6726
04:32:31,990 --> 04:32:27,830
she had spoken about it some after you

6727
04:32:33,910 --> 04:32:32,000
know that and i think uh and

6728
04:32:36,870 --> 04:32:33,920
she had talked to different members of

6729
04:32:38,950 --> 04:32:36,880
the family that that there was a

6730
04:32:41,189 --> 04:32:38,960
crash and there were bodies and

6731
04:32:42,950 --> 04:32:41,199
but that they could not say anything

6732
04:32:45,590 --> 04:32:42,960
about it

6733
04:32:47,910 --> 04:32:45,600
she killed my daughter she had told

6734
04:32:50,229 --> 04:32:47,920
people and i think maybe i had one

6735
04:32:51,830 --> 04:32:50,239
conversation with her about it but i

6736
04:32:54,389 --> 04:32:51,840
could not

6737
04:32:57,670 --> 04:32:54,399
recall it well enough

6738
04:32:59,110 --> 04:32:57,680
but she talked about bodies yes that

6739
04:33:04,949 --> 04:32:59,120
that she had heard

6740
04:33:08,551 --> 04:33:06,709
what about mac presell what happened to

6741
04:33:11,349 --> 04:33:08,561
him during this period of time

6742
04:33:13,349 --> 04:33:11,359
well the air force took him right away

6743
04:33:14,949 --> 04:33:13,359
and

6744
04:33:16,629 --> 04:33:14,959
he really never came back for the

6745
04:33:19,029 --> 04:33:16,639
sheriff's office

6746
04:33:22,310 --> 04:33:19,039
and the material was left there and the

6747
04:33:23,910 --> 04:33:22,320
air force picked it up and took it away

6748
04:33:28,150 --> 04:33:23,920
and then

6749
04:33:29,830 --> 04:33:28,160
and uh

6750
04:33:31,510 --> 04:33:29,840
my father said

6751
04:33:32,551 --> 04:33:31,520
i said what are you telling the people

6752
04:33:34,390 --> 04:33:32,561
on the phone

6753
04:33:36,629 --> 04:33:34,400
he said i don't have any information i

6754
04:33:38,470 --> 04:33:36,639
have to tell them i don't know that it

6755
04:33:40,789 --> 04:33:38,480
is

6756
04:33:43,750 --> 04:33:40,799
i don't really know i had i haven't seen

6757
04:33:45,910 --> 04:33:43,760
it i can't get in there and the air

6758
04:33:47,670 --> 04:33:45,920
force is handling it that i'm referring

6759
04:33:49,029 --> 04:33:47,680
calls from here

6760
04:33:50,949 --> 04:33:49,039
well that's right

6761
04:33:52,310 --> 04:33:50,959
they didn't even answer i don't think

6762
04:33:54,949 --> 04:33:52,320
out there

6763
04:33:57,990 --> 04:33:54,959
according to some of the witnesses there

6764
04:34:01,429 --> 04:33:58,000
he said that he had calls from all over

6765
04:34:03,590 --> 04:34:01,439
from england uh germany i believe i

6766
04:34:05,429 --> 04:34:03,600
can't imagine she wrote it in this

6767
04:34:07,830 --> 04:34:05,439
article the name's a place where they

6768
04:34:09,910 --> 04:34:07,840
had to call us from that morning when we

6769
04:34:11,990 --> 04:34:09,920
got to town and

6770
04:34:13,750 --> 04:34:12,000
it was quite exciting rushing around

6771
04:34:15,269 --> 04:34:13,760
there a little bit but

6772
04:34:16,949 --> 04:34:15,279
we did

6773
04:34:19,109 --> 04:34:16,959
just didn't go and i just didn't go in

6774
04:34:21,429 --> 04:34:19,119
the office i just uh stayed back in the

6775
04:34:24,230 --> 04:34:21,439
kitchen with mother and then she told us

6776
04:34:26,789 --> 04:34:24,240
what my father said but she said that he

6777
04:34:31,029 --> 04:34:26,799
was not to say one word and she didn't

6778
04:34:32,709 --> 04:34:31,039
say anything either for years and years

6779
04:34:33,429 --> 04:34:32,719
years

6780
04:34:35,590 --> 04:34:33,439
you know

6781
04:34:37,510 --> 04:34:35,600
well i see this four years in the fine

6782
04:34:38,709 --> 04:34:37,520
jail so she had to write this article

6783
04:34:43,189 --> 04:34:38,719
after

6784
04:34:49,590 --> 04:34:45,830
since she usually wrote things down

6785
04:34:53,590 --> 04:34:49,600
sometimes very soon after they happened

6786
04:34:57,510 --> 04:34:53,600
i'm guessing it's been in the 50s 55

6787
04:34:58,869 --> 04:34:57,520
that she wrote but we don't have any

6788
04:35:00,470 --> 04:34:58,879
um

6789
04:35:02,470 --> 04:35:00,480
i we don't have any

6790
04:35:05,670 --> 04:35:02,480
fate

6791
04:35:07,750 --> 04:35:05,680
we guessed it late 50s too myself that's

6792
04:35:08,390 --> 04:35:07,760
just what we had talked about guessing

6793
04:35:11,750 --> 04:35:08,400
it

6794
04:35:14,310 --> 04:35:11,760
to be late 50s or like 40s oh well you

6795
04:35:16,150 --> 04:35:14,320
see this happened in 47

6796
04:35:18,629 --> 04:35:16,160
and then they were still in the

6797
04:35:20,869 --> 04:35:18,639
sheriff's office until i believe it was

6798
04:35:23,510 --> 04:35:20,879
49

6799
04:35:25,349 --> 04:35:23,520
it may have been uh okay so we're just

6800
04:35:26,789 --> 04:35:25,359
adding some years onto that and saying

6801
04:35:28,629 --> 04:35:26,799
that that

6802
04:35:30,150 --> 04:35:28,639
the title of the article is four years

6803
04:35:31,590 --> 04:35:30,160
in the county jail so we have the out

6804
04:35:34,310 --> 04:35:31,600
there the only question is when did your

6805
04:35:36,070 --> 04:35:34,320
mother write the article

6806
04:35:37,109 --> 04:35:36,080
well i know that and we're trying to say

6807
04:35:38,551 --> 04:35:37,119
we think

6808
04:35:39,830 --> 04:35:38,561
that it was

6809
04:35:42,551 --> 04:35:39,840
in the

6810
04:35:44,709 --> 04:35:42,561
50s we think it was in my father became

6811
04:35:46,949 --> 04:35:44,719
very ill right after he came out of the

6812
04:35:49,109 --> 04:35:46,959
sheriff's office and she was traveling

6813
04:35:51,750 --> 04:35:49,119
around trying to find the best doctors

6814
04:35:54,629 --> 04:35:51,760
and everything in the world to help him

6815
04:35:56,949 --> 04:35:54,639
and she was very very busy and she had

6816
04:35:58,949 --> 04:35:56,959
not started a business or had anything

6817
04:36:01,750 --> 04:35:58,959
you know because she had just come out

6818
04:36:04,551 --> 04:36:01,760
of this job and he didn't have a job so

6819
04:36:06,789 --> 04:36:04,561
then she became a real estate agent in

6820
04:36:08,470 --> 04:36:06,799
roswell and she came to work and my

6821
04:36:10,709 --> 04:36:08,480
father then passed on

6822
04:36:14,070 --> 04:36:10,719
and uh he died

6823
04:36:23,910 --> 04:36:14,080
64 something like that or 16. i can't

6824
04:36:27,429 --> 04:36:25,910
what do you all hear about uh max

6825
04:36:30,310 --> 04:36:27,439
brazil's uh

6826
04:36:32,789 --> 04:36:30,320
being detained by the army air force

6827
04:36:36,150 --> 04:36:32,799
i didn't hear phyllis did you

6828
04:36:37,990 --> 04:36:36,160
well i don't know when i heard it i i

6829
04:36:39,429 --> 04:36:38,000
know he was detained by the army air

6830
04:36:41,990 --> 04:36:39,439
force

6831
04:36:43,830 --> 04:36:42,000
and i know he was out there

6832
04:36:46,230 --> 04:36:43,840
but after all you know we had just been

6833
04:36:48,551 --> 04:36:46,240
through all this business here plus we

6834
04:36:51,590 --> 04:36:48,561
had been interviewed before plus i read

6835
04:36:54,949 --> 04:36:51,600
the russell incident the mj-12 listened

6836
04:36:56,230 --> 04:36:54,959
to stan friedman talk um

6837
04:36:58,949 --> 04:36:56,240
okay

6838
04:37:01,269 --> 04:36:58,959
so i have yeah

6839
04:37:04,230 --> 04:37:01,279
the last few years

6840
04:37:06,070 --> 04:37:04,240
[Applause]

6841
04:37:08,629 --> 04:37:06,080
this is true i don't know what i knew

6842
04:37:13,189 --> 04:37:08,639
about wrestle until after i read the

6843
04:37:18,310 --> 04:37:15,670
when i um to my father he said i don't

6844
04:37:19,750 --> 04:37:18,320
know why brazil would have brought that

6845
04:37:20,800 --> 04:37:19,760
stuff in

6846
04:37:22,150 --> 04:37:20,810
and uh

6847
04:37:25,830 --> 04:37:22,160
[Music]

6848
04:37:27,269 --> 04:37:25,840
some way he indicated that

6849
04:37:29,750 --> 04:37:27,279
he trusted

6850
04:37:31,269 --> 04:37:29,760
uh brisbane

6851
04:37:34,150 --> 04:37:31,279
and

6852
04:37:35,429 --> 04:37:34,160
it's probably because he was new mexico

6853
04:37:38,629 --> 04:37:35,439
ranch

6854
04:37:40,830 --> 04:37:38,639
came all the way trying to tell somebody

6855
04:37:43,750 --> 04:37:40,840
you know i found something

6856
04:37:45,349 --> 04:37:43,760
unusual before someone helped me and so

6857
04:37:47,910 --> 04:37:45,359
i think

6858
04:37:51,429 --> 04:37:47,920
i did get that impression

6859
04:37:54,869 --> 04:37:51,439
then i know i did but when what else i

6860
04:37:58,749 --> 04:37:54,879
know about brussels in turn

6861
04:37:58,759 --> 04:38:05,990
[Music]

6862
04:38:11,189 --> 04:38:08,789
their little square boxes and

6863
04:38:14,230 --> 04:38:11,199
you can uh the balloon just just

6864
04:38:15,670 --> 04:38:14,240
deflates it and you pick them up there's

6865
04:38:17,189 --> 04:38:15,680
been a number of them you they have a

6866
04:38:19,750 --> 04:38:17,199
place that you couldn't send them back

6867
04:38:21,750 --> 04:38:19,760
from that air force and that's probably

6868
04:38:23,269 --> 04:38:21,760
said right now

6869
04:38:25,189 --> 04:38:23,279
as far as he was concerned from what you

6870
04:38:27,029 --> 04:38:25,199
know that this was not a weather balloon

6871
04:38:28,070 --> 04:38:27,039
oh no i don't think it was they said it

6872
04:38:29,429 --> 04:38:28,080
was

6873
04:38:31,910 --> 04:38:29,439
not a piece of

6874
04:38:34,230 --> 04:38:31,920
the saucer you know a piece of metal or

6875
04:38:36,310 --> 04:38:34,240
whatever they have the metal in that

6876
04:38:38,949 --> 04:38:36,320
office in the small office over there

6877
04:38:41,349 --> 04:38:38,959
with the doors shut nobody went in there

6878
04:38:42,390 --> 04:38:41,359
it was locked and the air force picked

6879
04:38:44,470 --> 04:38:42,400
it up

6880
04:38:47,269 --> 04:38:44,480
and from the father's office yes and

6881
04:38:49,189 --> 04:38:47,279
took it and said don't you say another

6882
04:38:50,709 --> 04:38:49,199
word about this

6883
04:38:52,310 --> 04:38:50,719
they had a little meeting in there when

6884
04:38:54,949 --> 04:38:52,320
they picked it up and that they had all

6885
04:38:57,830 --> 04:38:54,959
the jeeps and like you they said there

6886
04:39:00,390 --> 04:38:57,840
was probably three people

6887
04:39:03,109 --> 04:39:00,400
but see i didn't see them i don't know

6888
04:39:08,150 --> 04:39:05,750
no i didn't that's just how the military

6889
04:39:10,470 --> 04:39:08,160
uh you know how jeep drives up in front

6890
04:39:12,070 --> 04:39:10,480
if you uh have something there were open

6891
04:39:13,269 --> 04:39:12,080
jeeps and it was hot weather and they

6892
04:39:15,029 --> 04:39:13,279
just

6893
04:39:17,990 --> 04:39:15,039
got out and then the office and that's

6894
04:39:21,029 --> 04:39:18,000
all the same besides that i did not go

6895
04:39:22,470 --> 04:39:21,039
in there unless he wasn't busy you know

6896
04:39:24,869 --> 04:39:22,480
i didn't go

6897
04:39:27,429 --> 04:39:24,879
and stand and listen to anything that

6898
04:39:28,949 --> 04:39:27,439
was not my business my husband went in

6899
04:39:32,150 --> 04:39:28,959
there and missed it all the time because

6900
04:39:39,670 --> 04:39:32,160
he was a man yeah and wouldn't go in and

6901
04:39:44,070 --> 04:39:42,070
did your father ever name any of the

6902
04:39:47,190 --> 04:39:44,080
military people who were involved with

6903
04:39:49,350 --> 04:39:47,200
taking this material out of his office

6904
04:39:50,708 --> 04:39:49,360
no not to me either what happened after

6905
04:39:53,270 --> 04:39:50,718
the air force said this was a weather

6906
04:39:54,868 --> 04:39:53,280
balloon as far as the calls well then

6907
04:39:59,190 --> 04:39:54,878
they just

6908
04:39:59,200 --> 04:40:10,390
the air force has a little balloon

6909
04:40:17,110 --> 04:40:12,868
i remember distinctly thinking this

6910
04:40:18,628 --> 04:40:17,120
isn't right i don't believe this but you

6911
04:40:21,350 --> 04:40:18,638
know you're busy in your own life and

6912
04:40:24,070 --> 04:40:21,360
plenty of people i didn't dream of never

6913
04:40:25,830 --> 04:40:24,080
had an idea about investigating anything

6914
04:40:28,948 --> 04:40:25,840
like these guys it doesn't sound like

6915
04:40:30,628 --> 04:40:28,958
your mother was convinced no she was not

6916
04:40:32,230 --> 04:40:30,638
don't know i think she's very very

6917
04:40:33,990 --> 04:40:32,240
brilliant and she was

6918
04:40:35,910 --> 04:40:34,000
she had uh she didn't have all of the

6919
04:40:37,430 --> 04:40:35,920
responsibility my father had with all

6920
04:40:40,070 --> 04:40:37,440
the prisoners and all the deputies and

6921
04:40:41,430 --> 04:40:40,080
all of the uh jail and all of the thing

6922
04:40:42,948 --> 04:40:41,440
and so she

6923
04:40:45,590 --> 04:40:42,958
began to

6924
04:40:46,550 --> 04:40:45,600
be real curious but she said her he told

6925
04:40:48,868 --> 04:40:46,560
her

6926
04:40:50,550 --> 04:40:48,878
the story and then she kept it as long

6927
04:40:52,868 --> 04:40:50,560
as she possibly could and then she

6928
04:40:54,788 --> 04:40:52,878
thought well she could tell our children

6929
04:40:57,590 --> 04:40:54,798
because there would be her grandchildren

6930
04:40:59,350 --> 04:40:57,600
and so she had to talk to them and uh

6931
04:41:00,788 --> 04:40:59,360
you know kind of come forth but you

6932
04:41:03,430 --> 04:41:00,798
can't uh

6933
04:41:05,670 --> 04:41:03,440
if they say don't say anything

6934
04:41:08,070 --> 04:41:05,680
and you live right there in a military

6935
04:41:10,310 --> 04:41:08,080
town and it was very important to

6936
04:41:12,868 --> 04:41:10,320
roswell to have that race there really

6937
04:41:14,788 --> 04:41:12,878
it was important and they were in the

6938
04:41:16,788 --> 04:41:14,798
public eye like

6939
04:41:19,110 --> 04:41:16,798
you conform to things it's not that

6940
04:41:22,070 --> 04:41:19,120
you're put in prison or you're that but

6941
04:41:24,070 --> 04:41:22,080
it's just a part of nature that you do

6942
04:41:26,310 --> 04:41:24,080
someone asks you not to do something and

6943
04:41:28,628 --> 04:41:26,320
you say we do what we can for our

6944
04:41:30,868 --> 04:41:28,638
country and you just do that because we

6945
04:41:33,350 --> 04:41:30,878
thought seemed important and a lot of

6946
04:41:34,708 --> 04:41:33,360
people felt that the air force was doing

6947
04:41:36,868 --> 04:41:34,718
experiments

6948
04:41:38,830 --> 04:41:36,878
and that this was some new experiment

6949
04:41:42,628 --> 04:41:38,840
that they were doing

6950
04:41:45,990 --> 04:41:45,110
it would be harmful to their

6951
04:41:46,948 --> 04:41:46,000
uh

6952
04:41:49,510 --> 04:41:46,958
new

6953
04:41:51,830 --> 04:41:49,520
uh experiments if you told what they

6954
04:41:54,150 --> 04:41:51,840
were some other country might get the

6955
04:41:56,230 --> 04:41:54,160
plans you know or some kind of thing

6956
04:41:58,788 --> 04:41:56,240
like that so if they were doing

6957
04:42:01,910 --> 04:41:58,798
experiments with things and i think that

6958
04:42:04,788 --> 04:42:01,920
i thought that that was a positive oh so

6959
04:42:07,030 --> 04:42:04,798
patriotic everybody was doing their job

6960
04:42:09,430 --> 04:42:07,040
and they would not tell anything because

6961
04:42:12,550 --> 04:42:09,440
the war is a war you know and you

6962
04:42:14,390 --> 04:42:12,560
believe that you should uh be very

6963
04:42:18,470 --> 04:42:14,400
pictured now both our husbands were in

6964
04:42:22,948 --> 04:42:21,430
it's not funny to have them be in

6965
04:42:24,310 --> 04:42:22,958
combat

6966
04:42:27,030 --> 04:42:24,320
you both tell him around ross walks

6967
04:42:28,470 --> 04:42:27,040
today yesterday what what would you say

6968
04:42:31,430 --> 04:42:28,480
is the sense of the

6969
04:42:33,670 --> 04:42:31,440
community there about now 43 years later

6970
04:42:37,350 --> 04:42:33,680
entirely different a lot of people asked

6971
04:42:39,350 --> 04:42:37,360
me about it and uh

6972
04:42:42,150 --> 04:42:39,360
a couple of my friends bought me the

6973
04:42:44,708 --> 04:42:42,160
wrong lenses

6974
04:42:45,830 --> 04:42:44,718
and

6975
04:42:48,948 --> 04:42:45,840
i have

6976
04:42:50,470 --> 04:42:48,958
several people that have stopped me

6977
04:42:51,990 --> 04:42:50,480
asking questions

6978
04:42:54,628 --> 04:42:52,000
about it

6979
04:42:59,750 --> 04:42:56,868
i have a couple of

6980
04:43:01,990 --> 04:42:59,760
one woman's two grown sons that live in

6981
04:43:04,150 --> 04:43:02,000
california they're very

6982
04:43:05,510 --> 04:43:04,160
interested in this and i see them effort

6983
04:43:07,910 --> 04:43:05,520
once in a while when they come to see

6984
04:43:09,830 --> 04:43:07,920
their mother and they told me that

6985
04:43:11,830 --> 04:43:09,840
one of them told me that he thought they

6986
04:43:16,470 --> 04:43:11,840
were building some material that was

6987
04:43:21,510 --> 04:43:19,350
material that they found that they found

6988
04:43:23,590 --> 04:43:21,520
out along the brussels ranch

6989
04:43:25,190 --> 04:43:23,600
and he said i think that they

6990
04:43:27,270 --> 04:43:25,200
have almost duplicated that and it's

6991
04:43:29,190 --> 04:43:27,280
wonderful in the market and we talk

6992
04:43:31,350 --> 04:43:29,200
about things like that

6993
04:43:33,910 --> 04:43:31,360
i thought about it with several people

6994
04:43:35,990 --> 04:43:33,920
in in that area and they believe it in

6995
04:43:39,430 --> 04:43:36,000
the mother workers buddies at the time

6996
04:43:41,910 --> 04:43:39,440
and she just says i believe it

6997
04:43:42,868 --> 04:43:41,920
believe what that there was a flying

6998
04:43:43,990 --> 04:43:42,878
saucer

6999
04:43:46,070 --> 04:43:44,000
and that

7000
04:43:48,150 --> 04:43:46,080
other didn't do because she called it a

7001
04:43:50,708 --> 04:43:48,160
flying saucer and wrote about it that's

7002
04:43:51,990 --> 04:43:50,718
what this lady is she's a little older a

7003
04:43:53,430 --> 04:43:52,000
woman but

7004
04:43:55,030 --> 04:43:53,440
she said i believe she worked for the

7005
04:43:56,948 --> 04:43:55,040
base at the time

7006
04:43:58,788 --> 04:43:56,958
long family time

7007
04:44:00,948 --> 04:43:58,798
and she lives in a pressed home in

7008
04:44:03,190 --> 04:44:00,958
roswell that she's

7009
04:44:04,628 --> 04:44:03,200
got her dreams if we were to take an

7010
04:44:06,070 --> 04:44:04,638
opinion poll

7011
04:44:08,230 --> 04:44:06,080
in roswell

7012
04:44:09,990 --> 04:44:08,240
that community what do you think and the

7013
04:44:12,230 --> 04:44:10,000
question was do you believe the flying

7014
04:44:14,150 --> 04:44:12,240
saucer crashed here in 1947 what would

7015
04:44:16,788 --> 04:44:14,160
be the results of that poll do you think

7016
04:44:18,550 --> 04:44:16,798
i think that would be

7017
04:44:23,350 --> 04:44:18,560
at least

7018
04:44:25,190 --> 04:44:23,360
but now see that's the old connors too

7019
04:44:26,948 --> 04:44:25,200
we have a lot of new influx of newer

7020
04:44:29,910 --> 04:44:26,958
people that are posted when we're

7021
04:44:32,788 --> 04:44:29,920
talking about fossil in 1947

7022
04:44:35,110 --> 04:44:32,798
we think lisbon and i think about 15 000

7023
04:44:36,230 --> 04:44:35,120
is probably what it was and now it's 40

7024
04:44:38,230 --> 04:44:36,240
different

7025
04:44:40,390 --> 04:44:38,240
and they came back to the air force and

7026
04:44:42,788 --> 04:44:40,400
retired there they liked it so well i

7027
04:44:44,310 --> 04:44:42,798
had friends that were uh

7028
04:44:45,990 --> 04:44:44,320
had gone to germany and lived in the

7029
04:44:47,990 --> 04:44:46,000
council and came back to russell and

7030
04:44:50,628 --> 04:44:48,000
retired these lots of people retired

7031
04:44:52,708 --> 04:44:50,638
they're not natives like we are so now

7032
04:44:54,708 --> 04:44:52,718
we have to take those into consideration

7033
04:44:57,670 --> 04:44:54,718
if you're talking about the majority of

7034
04:44:59,910 --> 04:44:57,680
them that live there right now but the

7035
04:45:01,670 --> 04:44:59,920
people don't live there then

7036
04:45:06,150 --> 04:45:01,680
okay let's say that you think most of

7037
04:45:09,190 --> 04:45:06,160
them yeah and i think that sixty percent

7038
04:45:12,150 --> 04:45:09,200
i i have uh when i got here i arrived

7039
04:45:14,070 --> 04:45:12,160
and i there was a friend of mine who uh

7040
04:45:15,750 --> 04:45:14,080
had a daughter who's just moved up here

7041
04:45:18,470 --> 04:45:15,760
so i gave her a call

7042
04:45:19,990 --> 04:45:18,480
and i said uh alice i'm here she said

7043
04:45:22,708 --> 04:45:20,000
what are you doing up here and i said

7044
04:45:26,150 --> 04:45:22,718
well i came to a kind of a convention

7045
04:45:27,750 --> 04:45:26,160
for uh ufos or clients officers just in

7046
04:45:28,948 --> 04:45:27,760
that conversation that was something

7047
04:45:32,070 --> 04:45:28,958
impossible

7048
04:45:34,628 --> 04:45:32,080
and she said oh yes i remember all about

7049
04:45:35,990 --> 04:45:34,638
that one and i haven't seen

7050
04:45:38,390 --> 04:45:36,000
she has

7051
04:45:41,190 --> 04:45:38,400
she's been in saudi arabia she's been in

7052
04:45:43,110 --> 04:45:41,200
sweden she's been all over and she was

7053
04:45:44,948 --> 04:45:43,120
all in a lot of business and they had

7054
04:45:47,990 --> 04:45:44,958
moved up here and i said well i'll give

7055
04:45:50,070 --> 04:45:48,000
her a call so to me i said it to her she

7056
04:45:52,390 --> 04:45:50,080
had heard of it because her mother

7057
04:45:55,270 --> 04:45:52,400
father probably told her because she

7058
04:45:56,868 --> 04:45:55,280
probably is in her 40s so she would be

7059
04:45:57,670 --> 04:45:56,878
someone that her mother would have to

7060
04:46:00,150 --> 04:45:57,680
tell

7061
04:46:02,708 --> 04:46:00,160
that uh about the flying saucer or the

7062
04:46:05,190 --> 04:46:02,718
fossil and she they lived about 20 miles

7063
04:46:07,670 --> 04:46:05,200
from me but that's neighbors that's as

7064
04:46:10,550 --> 04:46:07,680
close as mine yet

7065
04:46:12,070 --> 04:46:10,560
why don't you ladies have a pokemon

7066
04:46:29,590 --> 04:46:12,080
thank you

7067
04:46:31,590 --> 04:46:30,310
yeah

7068
04:46:33,830 --> 04:46:31,600
but

7069
04:46:35,510 --> 04:46:33,840
then you come in with your questions

7070
04:46:38,150 --> 04:46:35,520
okay well i'll just get you started just

7071
04:46:39,510 --> 04:46:38,160
asking what you were doing in 1947 how's

7072
04:46:39,850 --> 04:46:39,520
that

7073
04:46:44,470 --> 04:46:39,860
okay

7074
04:46:47,110 --> 04:46:46,390
do you have any introduction

7075
04:46:50,310 --> 04:46:47,120
no

7076
04:46:54,070 --> 04:46:50,320
rolling the tape and i'd just like to

7077
04:46:57,230 --> 04:46:54,080
ask you what you were doing in 1947

7078
04:47:01,670 --> 04:46:58,948
1947

7079
04:47:05,830 --> 04:47:04,070
at the air base in roswell i was in the

7080
04:47:08,070 --> 04:47:05,840
military and i was first lieutenant at

7081
04:47:09,990 --> 04:47:08,080
the time

7082
04:47:12,150 --> 04:47:10,000
my assignments

7083
04:47:14,150 --> 04:47:12,160
were three

7084
04:47:17,590 --> 04:47:14,160
interestingly enough

7085
04:47:19,990 --> 04:47:17,600
i was assisted flying safety officer

7086
04:47:22,150 --> 04:47:20,000
i was assistant base operations officer

7087
04:47:24,390 --> 04:47:22,160
and i was assistant

7088
04:47:28,628 --> 04:47:24,400
group operations officer

7089
04:47:32,708 --> 04:47:31,510
and

7090
04:47:34,550 --> 04:47:32,718
because of

7091
04:47:36,550 --> 04:47:34,560
the building i worked in

7092
04:47:38,550 --> 04:47:36,560
all three offices that i just told you

7093
04:47:40,390 --> 04:47:38,560
about were contained in the same

7094
04:47:41,350 --> 04:47:40,400
building

7095
04:47:43,350 --> 04:47:41,360
and

7096
04:47:45,750 --> 04:47:43,360
for a time it seems i was running back

7097
04:47:48,230 --> 04:47:45,760
and forth

7098
04:47:50,868 --> 04:47:48,240
at that time i was primarily in group

7099
04:47:53,670 --> 04:47:50,878
operations

7100
04:47:58,390 --> 04:47:56,230
the call came in one day to arrange to

7101
04:47:59,910 --> 04:47:58,400
have b29

7102
04:48:02,280 --> 04:47:59,920
ready to go

7103
04:48:05,830 --> 04:48:02,290
as soon as possible

7104
04:48:10,070 --> 04:48:07,830
and of course someone asked

7105
04:48:12,628 --> 04:48:10,080
where to

7106
04:48:14,470 --> 04:48:12,638
i said just get a crew on board and have

7107
04:48:16,550 --> 04:48:14,480
the airplane stand by and we're going to

7108
04:48:19,270 --> 04:48:16,560
go to fort worth

7109
04:48:21,190 --> 04:48:19,280
and it was that was term blanchard's

7110
04:48:25,190 --> 04:48:21,200
directive

7111
04:48:28,990 --> 04:48:27,190
uh i office to

7112
04:48:31,430 --> 04:48:29,000
explain to you the building is an

7113
04:48:34,150 --> 04:48:31,440
h-shaped building

7114
04:48:36,310 --> 04:48:34,160
and the uh the vertical part of the h is

7115
04:48:39,990 --> 04:48:36,320
where the two hallways were one on each

7116
04:48:42,230 --> 04:48:40,000
side but the one on the right side

7117
04:48:43,750 --> 04:48:42,240
ran directly from the parking area up

7118
04:48:45,590 --> 04:48:43,760
front and went straight through the

7119
04:48:47,430 --> 04:48:45,600
building out to the ramp

7120
04:48:49,190 --> 04:48:47,440
the aircraft

7121
04:48:50,948 --> 04:48:49,200
the cross

7122
04:48:53,990 --> 04:48:50,958
of the age

7123
04:48:56,550 --> 04:48:54,000
half of it was the operations

7124
04:48:57,590 --> 04:48:56,560
base operations office where

7125
04:49:03,750 --> 04:48:57,600
the

7126
04:49:06,390 --> 04:49:03,760
flight plan and stepped to one side and

7127
04:49:09,350 --> 04:49:06,400
obtained their weather briefing and

7128
04:49:12,390 --> 04:49:09,360
read notices to airmen and got all our

7129
04:49:14,310 --> 04:49:12,400
material ready to go

7130
04:49:16,788 --> 04:49:14,320
and the flight clearance then was taken

7131
04:49:19,670 --> 04:49:16,798
and submitted to the tower to let them

7132
04:49:23,270 --> 04:49:19,680
know something was going to happen and

7133
04:49:26,550 --> 04:49:23,280
air traffic control and so forth

7134
04:49:28,628 --> 04:49:26,560
as i explained last night uh

7135
04:49:30,868 --> 04:49:28,638
kind of or yesterday afternoon late

7136
04:49:32,708 --> 04:49:30,878
trying to clarify a point

7137
04:49:35,430 --> 04:49:32,718
each squadron

7138
04:49:37,270 --> 04:49:35,440
also had their own operations set up and

7139
04:49:41,750 --> 04:49:37,280
they could release their aircraft

7140
04:49:43,750 --> 04:49:41,760
without going through base operations

7141
04:49:46,230 --> 04:49:43,760
they would let us know that the group

7142
04:49:48,310 --> 04:49:46,240
was taking off and

7143
04:49:51,110 --> 04:49:48,320
just how many airplanes at work

7144
04:49:52,868 --> 04:49:51,120
they had already handled all their

7145
04:49:56,070 --> 04:49:52,878
arrangements with air traffic control

7146
04:49:57,350 --> 04:49:56,080
and with the tower and so forth

7147
04:50:00,550 --> 04:49:57,360
today rate

7148
04:50:01,590 --> 04:50:00,560
i was in that operations

7149
04:50:03,670 --> 04:50:01,600
office

7150
04:50:05,350 --> 04:50:03,680
and colonel blanchard

7151
04:50:07,910 --> 04:50:05,360
drove up and came in and asked is the

7152
04:50:09,750 --> 04:50:07,920
aircraft ready and

7153
04:50:12,470 --> 04:50:09,760
i have one other fellow there

7154
04:50:14,628 --> 04:50:12,480
who's now dead

7155
04:50:16,868 --> 04:50:14,638
said yes it's sitting right out front

7156
04:50:19,430 --> 04:50:16,878
ready to go and with this he turned

7157
04:50:20,868 --> 04:50:19,440
stepped out back into the hallway

7158
04:50:25,990 --> 04:50:20,878
and

7159
04:50:28,708 --> 04:50:26,000
sitting in the army

7160
04:50:32,310 --> 04:50:29,910
i suspect

7161
04:50:34,788 --> 04:50:32,320
trying to recall another

7162
04:50:37,350 --> 04:50:34,798
four or five or six people

7163
04:50:39,750 --> 04:50:37,360
and i'll say i'll say five

7164
04:50:41,590 --> 04:50:39,760
it doesn't really matter but

7165
04:50:43,030 --> 04:50:41,600
they came in the front door straight

7166
04:50:45,510 --> 04:50:43,040
down the hallway

7167
04:50:47,910 --> 04:50:45,520
and ran out onto the ramp

7168
04:50:50,390 --> 04:50:47,920
to climb into the airplane

7169
04:50:52,788 --> 04:50:50,400
these were the people that were carrying

7170
04:50:54,628 --> 04:50:52,798
parts of the crashed

7171
04:50:59,110 --> 04:50:54,638
uh

7172
04:51:00,788 --> 04:50:59,120
flying saucer at that time ufo today

7173
04:51:03,590 --> 04:51:00,798
that uh

7174
04:51:07,830 --> 04:51:03,600
i got to see and that was the only thing

7175
04:51:09,430 --> 04:51:07,840
i got to see and very short very quick

7176
04:51:12,390 --> 04:51:09,440
colonel blanchard in order to get out of

7177
04:51:14,390 --> 04:51:12,400
their way head back into the doorway

7178
04:51:17,350 --> 04:51:14,400
of the pops office

7179
04:51:23,350 --> 04:51:17,360
and i stepped up to him and i said

7180
04:51:28,230 --> 04:51:25,190
maybe if i hadn't said that to him made

7181
04:51:29,750 --> 04:51:28,240
it obvious that i was there

7182
04:51:32,310 --> 04:51:29,760
i would not have been shipped out two

7183
04:51:33,830 --> 04:51:32,320
weeks later

7184
04:51:36,320 --> 04:51:33,840
what was his immediate response to your

7185
04:51:37,430 --> 04:51:36,330
request well he just turned and

7186
04:51:39,990 --> 04:51:37,440
[Music]

7187
04:51:40,868 --> 04:51:40,000
if you knew colonel blanchard and he

7188
04:51:42,708 --> 04:51:40,878
when he

7189
04:51:43,860 --> 04:51:42,718
went on to become three-star general and

7190
04:51:44,948 --> 04:51:43,870
vice chief of staff

7191
04:51:47,430 --> 04:51:44,958
[Music]

7192
04:51:49,830 --> 04:51:47,440
he was a very commanding presence

7193
04:51:54,868 --> 04:51:52,390
he was a he was a good officer a real

7194
04:51:57,270 --> 04:51:54,878
leader when he said he wanted something

7195
04:52:02,550 --> 04:51:57,280
people said yes sir and it wasn't just

7196
04:52:07,270 --> 04:52:04,550
so he just turned looked at me and he

7197
04:52:09,590 --> 04:52:07,280
did turn sideways so that i could

7198
04:52:12,470 --> 04:52:09,600
half step into the doorway and watch the

7199
04:52:15,190 --> 04:52:12,480
files go through and when i thus i saw

7200
04:52:17,590 --> 04:52:15,200
them carrying certain pieces of these

7201
04:52:21,910 --> 04:52:19,430
items and

7202
04:52:25,670 --> 04:52:21,920
as i've described to other people when

7203
04:52:31,750 --> 04:52:29,270
they had one piece that was all

7204
04:52:34,470 --> 04:52:31,760
like say uh

7205
04:52:39,110 --> 04:52:34,480
18 but 24 inch or

7206
04:52:44,070 --> 04:52:40,390
brushed

7207
04:52:48,788 --> 04:52:46,788
in color maybe if you think of the

7208
04:52:51,750 --> 04:52:48,798
common loom

7209
04:52:53,910 --> 04:52:51,760
foil roll today when you're pulling out

7210
04:52:56,150 --> 04:52:53,920
one side's real reflective but that's

7211
04:52:57,990 --> 04:52:56,160
not what it was it was the like the

7212
04:53:00,230 --> 04:52:58,000
opposite side which is

7213
04:53:01,430 --> 04:53:00,240
rather dull

7214
04:53:04,070 --> 04:53:01,440
it doesn't have

7215
04:53:08,708 --> 04:53:04,080
great reflective power

7216
04:53:13,030 --> 04:53:10,948
i've heard it mentioned now for so many

7217
04:53:14,788 --> 04:53:13,040
times about the high beam with the

7218
04:53:17,510 --> 04:53:14,798
markings on it and so forth and i

7219
04:53:19,030 --> 04:53:17,520
actually saw that piece of ibu being

7220
04:53:21,030 --> 04:53:19,040
carried through

7221
04:53:24,788 --> 04:53:21,040
and

7222
04:53:27,270 --> 04:53:24,798
saw the markings but it was a case of

7223
04:53:32,150 --> 04:53:27,280
here it was and there it went and uh

7224
04:53:38,230 --> 04:53:35,110
they went out got on board the aircraft

7225
04:53:47,270 --> 04:53:39,490
and major martial

7226
04:53:52,310 --> 04:53:49,910
i mentioned the operational setup this

7227
04:53:53,750 --> 04:53:52,320
has had become clear in the discussion

7228
04:53:56,070 --> 04:53:53,760
that uh

7229
04:53:59,510 --> 04:53:56,080
there's some confusion about

7230
04:54:05,590 --> 04:54:02,390
one of the first interviews i did i

7231
04:54:09,670 --> 04:54:05,600
they asked me about a b-29 i said

7232
04:54:11,830 --> 04:54:09,680
oh there was a there was a b-25 also

7233
04:54:14,628 --> 04:54:11,840
well a couple days later

7234
04:54:16,788 --> 04:54:14,638
we had occasion to set up a b-25

7235
04:54:20,948 --> 04:54:16,798
it takes do something and take something

7236
04:54:26,310 --> 04:54:23,510
then there was a third flight

7237
04:54:29,590 --> 04:54:26,320
and this was the b-29 that

7238
04:54:31,110 --> 04:54:29,600
papi henderson was the pilot and

7239
04:54:32,070 --> 04:54:31,120
he flew

7240
04:54:38,708 --> 04:54:32,080
to

7241
04:54:39,910 --> 04:54:38,718
off no

7242
04:54:41,750 --> 04:54:39,920
i say that

7243
04:54:43,030 --> 04:54:41,760
not really knowing that answer but

7244
04:54:45,110 --> 04:54:43,040
[Music]

7245
04:54:47,910 --> 04:54:45,120
going back

7246
04:54:50,470 --> 04:54:47,920
to the time element involved

7247
04:54:55,350 --> 04:54:50,480
every i i sensed the other day that

7248
04:54:59,990 --> 04:54:57,670
major marcel went out to the crash site

7249
04:55:02,550 --> 04:55:00,000
picked up this material brought it on

7250
04:55:04,550 --> 04:55:02,560
base showed it to the colonel

7251
04:55:07,110 --> 04:55:04,560
and it was flown out

7252
04:55:10,070 --> 04:55:07,120
and at the same time walter hunt had

7253
04:55:13,270 --> 04:55:10,080
made this paper the newspaper released

7254
04:55:16,550 --> 04:55:13,280
public relations released and

7255
04:55:16,960 --> 04:55:16,560
within 12 hours it was all squashed

7256
04:55:20,550 --> 04:55:16,970
killed

7257
04:55:26,310 --> 04:55:22,230
and every i

7258
04:55:28,470 --> 04:55:26,320
i picked up that everyone was thinking

7259
04:55:30,310 --> 04:55:28,480
that everything went out

7260
04:55:31,750 --> 04:55:30,320
on that flight that they went to fort

7261
04:55:36,868 --> 04:55:31,760
worth and then they went on to the right

7262
04:55:43,350 --> 04:55:40,948
i'll have to jump now 40 years

7263
04:55:46,070 --> 04:55:43,360
because

7264
04:55:50,150 --> 04:55:46,080
something that happened in our house

7265
04:55:52,390 --> 04:55:50,160
this was a couple we had in for dinner

7266
04:55:55,750 --> 04:55:52,400
and i knew he was a mortician

7267
04:56:00,550 --> 04:55:58,708
on the 40th anniversary the local paper

7268
04:56:03,990 --> 04:56:00,560
in roswell reprinted

7269
04:56:07,190 --> 04:56:04,000
the story of the flying saucer and

7270
04:56:10,070 --> 04:56:07,200
the pictures or the sketches

7271
04:56:12,948 --> 04:56:10,080
and they had a couple sketches of what

7272
04:56:14,708 --> 04:56:12,958
the aliens were supposed to look like

7273
04:56:20,150 --> 04:56:14,718
these alien bodies that they claim to

7274
04:56:25,030 --> 04:56:22,070
as we were walking to the front door

7275
04:56:29,750 --> 04:56:25,040
down our hallway this hall turned to me

7276
04:56:35,670 --> 04:56:32,150
nice and the article on

7277
04:56:37,990 --> 04:56:35,680
the roswell incident i said yes i did

7278
04:56:44,390 --> 04:56:38,000
and shocked number one comes

7279
04:56:48,550 --> 04:56:46,470
thus we stop and talk a little bit and i

7280
04:56:51,430 --> 04:56:48,560
come to find out and he has since been

7281
04:56:53,750 --> 04:56:51,440
interviewed by stanton friedman

7282
04:56:55,910 --> 04:56:53,760
he was the mortician on duty that

7283
04:56:59,110 --> 04:56:55,920
received the phone call from the air

7284
04:57:01,510 --> 04:56:59,120
base asking for child-sized caskets and

7285
04:57:04,788 --> 04:57:01,520
body bags

7286
04:57:08,868 --> 04:57:06,070
or say

7287
04:57:15,030 --> 04:57:08,878
the night after

7288
04:57:21,830 --> 04:57:16,470
it developed

7289
04:57:25,990 --> 04:57:24,470
was driving an ambulance for

7290
04:57:27,670 --> 04:57:26,000
the mortuary

7291
04:57:30,310 --> 04:57:27,680
which was a service they provided the

7292
04:57:31,670 --> 04:57:30,320
air force and he had gone to pick up a

7293
04:57:33,510 --> 04:57:31,680
sick airman

7294
04:57:35,510 --> 04:57:33,520
in town and took him to the base

7295
04:57:37,990 --> 04:57:35,520
hospital

7296
04:57:41,350 --> 04:57:38,000
now this is the next night

7297
04:57:52,150 --> 04:57:44,150
and

7298
04:57:53,510 --> 04:57:52,160
girlfriend

7299
04:57:55,830 --> 04:57:53,520
they had even been thinking about

7300
04:57:58,230 --> 04:57:55,840
getting married

7301
04:58:01,510 --> 04:57:58,240
i don't recall her last first name with

7302
04:58:05,030 --> 04:58:03,670
he walked into her

7303
04:58:07,430 --> 04:58:05,040
lab area

7304
04:58:09,190 --> 04:58:07,440
and was immediately stopped by air

7305
04:58:11,030 --> 04:58:09,200
police

7306
04:58:13,430 --> 04:58:11,040
and

7307
04:58:16,788 --> 04:58:13,440
escorted out

7308
04:58:19,350 --> 04:58:16,798
before he was actually taken out

7309
04:58:23,110 --> 04:58:19,360
she looked up and said i will

7310
04:58:26,830 --> 04:58:24,708
because he said where are you going i'm

7311
04:58:29,190 --> 04:58:26,840
going to see your girlfriend

7312
04:58:30,550 --> 04:58:29,200
lieutenant out

7313
04:58:34,868 --> 04:58:30,560
they took him out

7314
04:58:36,390 --> 04:58:34,878
later they did meet as he told me and

7315
04:58:38,550 --> 04:58:36,400
she sketched

7316
04:58:39,590 --> 04:58:38,560
on a prescription pad

7317
04:58:43,990 --> 04:58:39,600
what the

7318
04:58:44,000 --> 04:58:48,390
and he had that

7319
04:58:54,550 --> 04:58:51,750
sketch and took it back to the mortuary

7320
04:58:56,470 --> 04:58:54,560
and put it in a file

7321
04:58:59,030 --> 04:58:56,480
in the drawer of his desk where he had a

7322
04:59:00,470 --> 04:58:59,040
series of files on the work that he

7323
04:59:02,310 --> 04:59:00,480
handled

7324
04:59:03,430 --> 04:59:02,320
and that was all the records they

7325
04:59:05,430 --> 04:59:03,440
were keeping

7326
04:59:07,190 --> 04:59:05,440
he delivered so many caskets or he

7327
04:59:11,590 --> 04:59:07,200
picked up so many airmen and took them

7328
04:59:15,590 --> 04:59:13,350
stanton friedman interviewed this

7329
04:59:19,430 --> 04:59:15,600
individual and they arranged to go to

7330
04:59:23,670 --> 04:59:21,990
file building that the mortuary still

7331
04:59:26,708 --> 04:59:23,680
maintains

7332
04:59:30,788 --> 04:59:28,628
all the files

7333
04:59:32,948 --> 04:59:30,798
manila folders and so forth that he had

7334
04:59:34,230 --> 04:59:32,958
had in his desk during the years he

7335
04:59:36,708 --> 04:59:34,240
worked there

7336
04:59:40,868 --> 04:59:36,718
except that one file with the sketches

7337
04:59:42,310 --> 04:59:40,878
in it and any remarks

7338
04:59:44,868 --> 04:59:42,320
that have been

7339
04:59:47,270 --> 04:59:44,878
picked up sometime and taken

7340
04:59:48,948 --> 04:59:47,280
by whom they don't know

7341
04:59:50,948 --> 04:59:48,958
but

7342
04:59:54,470 --> 04:59:50,958
here again the secrecy veil had come

7343
04:59:57,030 --> 04:59:55,830
you said you were shipped out shortly

7344
05:00:00,948 --> 04:59:57,040
after

7345
05:00:07,190 --> 05:00:03,350
as i explained yesterday to the people

7346
05:00:14,310 --> 05:00:07,200
who clarify this point of

7347
05:00:19,990 --> 05:00:17,590
i sent had learned of course that the

7348
05:00:21,510 --> 05:00:20,000
sergeant of the guard with a series of

7349
05:00:23,270 --> 05:00:21,520
airmen went out and they surrounded the

7350
05:00:25,270 --> 05:00:23,280
site and then they swept the area and

7351
05:00:27,110 --> 05:00:25,280
picked up everything they could and the

7352
05:00:27,990 --> 05:00:27,120
bodies were brought in

7353
05:00:31,830 --> 05:00:28,000
and

7354
05:00:33,670 --> 05:00:31,840
everything was laid out in hangar 84

7355
05:00:36,550 --> 05:00:33,680
and

7356
05:00:37,670 --> 05:00:36,560
what happened to him then well

7357
05:00:41,990 --> 05:00:37,680
as i was

7358
05:00:46,230 --> 05:00:43,430
the air force

7359
05:00:48,708 --> 05:00:46,240
had established the system of

7360
05:00:51,510 --> 05:00:48,718
it was a base operations office for all

7361
05:00:53,190 --> 05:00:51,520
normal activity and they controlled the

7362
05:00:56,310 --> 05:00:53,200
weather station they controlled the

7363
05:00:58,230 --> 05:00:56,320
crash equipment the tower operation

7364
05:01:02,390 --> 05:00:58,240
that oversold

7365
05:01:04,310 --> 05:01:02,400
controlled the immediate area

7366
05:01:06,868 --> 05:01:04,320
each squadron

7367
05:01:08,788 --> 05:01:06,878
had its own contact and home operations

7368
05:01:10,390 --> 05:01:08,798
and they could set up their own training

7369
05:01:12,310 --> 05:01:10,400
flights

7370
05:01:14,390 --> 05:01:12,320
establish their own contact with air

7371
05:01:15,670 --> 05:01:14,400
traffic control

7372
05:01:18,070 --> 05:01:15,680
tell the tower that they were going to

7373
05:01:20,708 --> 05:01:18,080
take off tomorrow at 10 a.m

7374
05:01:22,550 --> 05:01:20,718
the whole 12 airplanes or

7375
05:01:23,590 --> 05:01:22,560
however many

7376
05:01:25,910 --> 05:01:23,600
and

7377
05:01:28,390 --> 05:01:25,920
all they provided to the base was the

7378
05:01:30,390 --> 05:01:28,400
fact that 12 airplanes maybe tomorrow

7379
05:01:31,830 --> 05:01:30,400
and we going on

7380
05:01:34,470 --> 05:01:31,840
let's say a

7381
05:01:36,470 --> 05:01:34,480
15-hour mission

7382
05:01:38,948 --> 05:01:36,480
that's all we needed to know

7383
05:01:42,550 --> 05:01:38,958
speaking in terms of representing the

7384
05:01:44,470 --> 05:01:42,560
groupops and the base office

7385
05:01:47,190 --> 05:01:44,480
and one of the squadrons

7386
05:01:49,750 --> 05:01:47,200
this is about three days later now four

7387
05:01:55,670 --> 05:01:53,030
announced a training flight and

7388
05:01:58,150 --> 05:01:55,680
their aircraft all took off

7389
05:02:00,470 --> 05:01:58,160
let's say this morning

7390
05:02:02,390 --> 05:02:00,480
in the order that was prescribed and so

7391
05:02:05,030 --> 05:02:02,400
forth

7392
05:02:07,270 --> 05:02:05,040
one of those aircraft was flown by pappy

7393
05:02:09,430 --> 05:02:07,280
henderson which had been loaded with all

7394
05:02:12,390 --> 05:02:09,440
the material out of hangar 84 and went

7395
05:02:14,470 --> 05:02:12,400
to right patterson including bodies

7396
05:02:16,150 --> 05:02:14,480
yes

7397
05:02:17,910 --> 05:02:16,160
the caskets that

7398
05:02:20,230 --> 05:02:17,920
this friend of mine had supplied from

7399
05:02:22,230 --> 05:02:20,240
the mortuary did you see the caskets or

7400
05:02:26,150 --> 05:02:22,240
the body no i didn't

7401
05:02:30,230 --> 05:02:26,160
how do you know that they were on that

7402
05:02:36,550 --> 05:02:32,868
how do i know i i was told that that's

7403
05:02:38,550 --> 05:02:36,560
what happy henderson said he carried

7404
05:02:42,390 --> 05:02:38,560
he was in the hangar and saw this

7405
05:02:44,230 --> 05:02:42,400
material and saw his aircraft before

7406
05:02:46,868 --> 05:02:44,240
and that's

7407
05:02:49,190 --> 05:02:46,878
it's years before he mentioned anything

7408
05:02:52,788 --> 05:02:49,200
to anybody

7409
05:02:56,310 --> 05:02:55,190
in other words what i'm trying to convey

7410
05:02:57,910 --> 05:02:56,320
is

7411
05:03:00,708 --> 05:02:57,920
everything did not go out with that

7412
05:03:03,030 --> 05:03:00,718
first air practice

7413
05:03:05,510 --> 05:03:03,040
and when the

7414
05:03:07,990 --> 05:03:05,520
next flights went

7415
05:03:10,550 --> 05:03:08,000
we can't find out today there's no way

7416
05:03:13,990 --> 05:03:10,560
of tying it down

7417
05:03:15,590 --> 05:03:14,000
they have an idea when he arrived

7418
05:03:19,030 --> 05:03:15,600
but that's not important the point is

7419
05:03:21,030 --> 05:03:19,040
that once the secrecy veil dropped

7420
05:03:25,190 --> 05:03:21,040
and colonel blanchard was informed and

7421
05:03:27,110 --> 05:03:25,200
he informed his staff a day later

7422
05:03:29,910 --> 05:03:27,120
this the official story is this was a

7423
05:03:34,470 --> 05:03:29,920
weather balloon and that's it

7424
05:03:39,430 --> 05:03:35,870
i ran into

7425
05:03:45,670 --> 05:03:42,788
uh i don't call a misunderstanding

7426
05:03:49,030 --> 05:03:45,680
a lack of understanding on the parts of

7427
05:03:51,350 --> 05:03:49,040
a couple investigative reporters

7428
05:03:53,590 --> 05:03:51,360
who asked me a leading question and i

7429
05:03:55,350 --> 05:03:53,600
turned and looked at them uh

7430
05:03:56,788 --> 05:03:55,360
like i'm looking at you and i said how

7431
05:03:59,590 --> 05:03:56,798
old are you

7432
05:04:02,310 --> 05:03:59,600
that rather startled your voice

7433
05:04:04,948 --> 05:04:02,320
and when were you born

7434
05:04:08,868 --> 05:04:04,958
well he was born around the time of the

7435
05:04:09,990 --> 05:04:08,878
korean war 52 51 53

7436
05:04:12,708 --> 05:04:10,000
you know

7437
05:04:16,390 --> 05:04:12,718
different dates for different people

7438
05:04:21,510 --> 05:04:19,190
i said your knowledge of war has been

7439
05:04:23,190 --> 05:04:21,520
limited to the vietnam

7440
05:04:25,830 --> 05:04:23,200
situation

7441
05:04:29,590 --> 05:04:25,840
and the confusion that was going on and

7442
05:04:30,948 --> 05:04:29,600
the lack of support by people

7443
05:04:32,868 --> 05:04:30,958
for the

7444
05:04:35,030 --> 05:04:32,878
for that war and

7445
05:04:37,030 --> 05:04:35,040
and really the confused

7446
05:04:38,550 --> 05:04:37,040
way it was run

7447
05:04:40,390 --> 05:04:38,560
by washington

7448
05:04:44,070 --> 05:04:40,400
authorities

7449
05:04:46,550 --> 05:04:44,080
i said never before in the history of

7450
05:04:49,590 --> 05:04:46,560
military operations has a

7451
05:04:51,910 --> 05:04:49,600
national capital setback and told

7452
05:04:54,230 --> 05:04:51,920
the people how many bombs they can drop

7453
05:04:55,990 --> 05:04:54,240
tomorrow or how many shells they can

7454
05:04:57,990 --> 05:04:56,000
fire in their moon

7455
05:05:01,830 --> 05:04:58,000
this is a ridiculous way to run an

7456
05:05:05,830 --> 05:05:03,750
but back in

7457
05:05:07,990 --> 05:05:05,840
oh the question had evolved because of

7458
05:05:11,430 --> 05:05:08,000
walter hawt and myself

7459
05:05:13,030 --> 05:05:11,440
who knew each other at the air base

7460
05:05:15,750 --> 05:05:13,040
knew of

7461
05:05:17,350 --> 05:05:15,760
who a year and a half later or two years

7462
05:05:19,110 --> 05:05:17,360
later

7463
05:05:21,590 --> 05:05:19,120
shared an office

7464
05:05:23,430 --> 05:05:21,600
for a year in town as civilians he was

7465
05:05:24,788 --> 05:05:23,440
running his

7466
05:05:27,590 --> 05:05:24,798
thing i was

7467
05:05:32,948 --> 05:05:27,600
running my little operation

7468
05:05:36,310 --> 05:05:34,230
and he had

7469
05:05:38,070 --> 05:05:36,320
raised the question with walter and then

7470
05:05:40,470 --> 05:05:38,080
with me how come you fellows never

7471
05:05:42,470 --> 05:05:40,480
talked to each other

7472
05:05:43,590 --> 05:05:42,480
and walter had made the remark well i

7473
05:05:45,670 --> 05:05:43,600
guess

7474
05:05:48,390 --> 05:05:45,680
i know what i know and he knows what he

7475
05:05:49,990 --> 05:05:48,400
knows and that was it

7476
05:05:51,030 --> 05:05:50,000
well how come you didn't talk to each

7477
05:05:53,430 --> 05:05:51,040
other

7478
05:05:56,868 --> 05:05:53,440
that's what i'm leading him

7479
05:05:58,708 --> 05:05:56,878
and why i asked him how old he was

7480
05:06:00,550 --> 05:05:58,718
world war ii

7481
05:06:03,270 --> 05:06:00,560
if you didn't experience it it's very

7482
05:06:05,350 --> 05:06:03,280
difficult to understand but i said

7483
05:06:07,990 --> 05:06:05,360
someone came up and slapped the

7484
05:06:11,830 --> 05:06:08,000
collective nose of the country

7485
05:06:17,190 --> 05:06:14,230
and it was in the newspapers it was in

7486
05:06:19,110 --> 05:06:17,200
magazines it was on the radio

7487
05:06:22,788 --> 05:06:19,120
statements similar to

7488
05:06:24,708 --> 05:06:22,798
loose lips sink ships

7489
05:06:26,948 --> 05:06:24,718
don't talk about anything

7490
05:06:28,470 --> 05:06:26,958
don't put on you know anything because

7491
05:06:31,270 --> 05:06:28,480
someone's going to take the information

7492
05:06:35,270 --> 05:06:31,280
and use it to your detriment

7493
05:06:36,550 --> 05:06:35,280
i said college campuses got into it but

7494
05:06:38,788 --> 05:06:36,560
not

7495
05:06:40,070 --> 05:06:38,798
by using signs

7496
05:06:42,310 --> 05:06:40,080
that said

7497
05:06:43,830 --> 05:06:42,320
minefield

7498
05:06:48,550 --> 05:06:43,840
don't walk here

7499
05:06:52,948 --> 05:06:50,230
newly seated areas and they didn't have

7500
05:06:56,708 --> 05:06:52,958
it roped off and it's in minefield

7501
05:07:00,070 --> 05:06:57,830
cosmo

7502
05:07:01,670 --> 05:07:00,080
the entire country became in a sense

7503
05:07:06,310 --> 05:07:01,680
brainwashed

7504
05:07:07,910 --> 05:07:06,320
everyone was concerned with world war ii

7505
05:07:10,550 --> 05:07:07,920
when i asked the question did you

7506
05:07:11,510 --> 05:07:10,560
realize ever did you ever know

7507
05:07:13,590 --> 05:07:11,520
that

7508
05:07:15,190 --> 05:07:13,600
everyone on the coastline had blackout

7509
05:07:17,430 --> 05:07:15,200
curtains on their windows and on their

7510
05:07:18,788 --> 05:07:17,440
doors when someone riding the doorbell

7511
05:07:20,868 --> 05:07:18,798
they turned out the lights before they

7512
05:07:22,150 --> 05:07:20,878
opened the door

7513
05:07:23,750 --> 05:07:22,160
and they said no

7514
05:07:26,788 --> 05:07:23,760
i said well this is true all the way

7515
05:07:28,868 --> 05:07:26,798
down the eastern coast around florida

7516
05:07:30,868 --> 05:07:28,878
and the gulf of mexico

7517
05:07:34,310 --> 05:07:30,878
the theory being we shouldn't allow the

7518
05:07:35,990 --> 05:07:34,320
enemy to to know where our cities were

7519
05:07:38,868 --> 05:07:36,000
of course now they could sit out there

7520
05:07:40,868 --> 05:07:38,878
during the day and watch and people in

7521
05:07:41,830 --> 05:07:40,878
new jersey could look out in the ocean

7522
05:07:45,910 --> 05:07:41,840
and see

7523
05:07:49,750 --> 05:07:45,920
tankers being blown up by torpedoes

7524
05:07:51,430 --> 05:07:49,760
this was taking place right out there

7525
05:07:53,590 --> 05:07:51,440
and

7526
05:07:56,390 --> 05:07:53,600
this is the way we operated you were

7527
05:07:58,150 --> 05:07:56,400
told not talk about anything

7528
05:08:01,030 --> 05:07:58,160
and then if you were in the military it

7529
05:08:03,910 --> 05:08:01,040
was even more emphasized

7530
05:08:07,510 --> 05:08:05,590
walter knew his

7531
05:08:09,430 --> 05:08:07,520
his thing and i knew my thing and we

7532
05:08:11,510 --> 05:08:09,440
never talked about it

7533
05:08:13,430 --> 05:08:11,520
we had never talked to one another about

7534
05:08:17,750 --> 05:08:13,440
the roswell incident until after we were

7535
05:08:17,760 --> 05:08:21,990
and suddenly we both

7536
05:08:25,430 --> 05:08:23,350
what do you think

7537
05:08:27,670 --> 05:08:25,440
i guess we both felt we had to explain

7538
05:08:28,830 --> 05:08:27,680
to each other what we did know

7539
05:08:31,670 --> 05:08:28,840
what do you think

7540
05:08:37,510 --> 05:08:31,680
happened what crashed

7541
05:08:44,390 --> 05:08:40,310
i think some type of craft of which we

7542
05:08:47,190 --> 05:08:46,230
had a problem

7543
05:08:52,868 --> 05:08:47,200
and

7544
05:08:54,868 --> 05:08:52,878
area new mexico

7545
05:08:56,788 --> 05:08:54,878
really do

7546
05:08:59,190 --> 05:08:56,798
as the properties of the material that

7547
05:09:03,190 --> 05:08:59,200
was found was unknown

7548
05:09:07,190 --> 05:09:05,190
the bodies had never been no one had

7549
05:09:11,430 --> 05:09:07,200
ever been seen like that before these

7550
05:09:13,910 --> 05:09:11,440
sketches were true and i feel they were

7551
05:09:16,310 --> 05:09:13,920
you did this mortician pretty well

7552
05:09:18,550 --> 05:09:16,320
yes it developed

7553
05:09:20,868 --> 05:09:18,560
that he and my wife

7554
05:09:23,670 --> 05:09:20,878
went school together

7555
05:09:25,350 --> 05:09:23,680
and his wife and i

7556
05:09:26,948 --> 05:09:25,360
knew each other

7557
05:09:28,948 --> 05:09:26,958
through some friends from the moment i

7558
05:09:29,670 --> 05:09:28,958
first went to uh

7559
05:09:31,590 --> 05:09:29,680
to

7560
05:09:36,948 --> 05:09:31,600
roswell

7561
05:09:39,590 --> 05:09:36,958
in 1945 to where it was live 829's

7562
05:09:43,750 --> 05:09:41,350
we were very close friends and came

7563
05:09:45,190 --> 05:09:43,760
close to marrying one another

7564
05:09:49,510 --> 05:09:45,200
you know

7565
05:09:51,670 --> 05:09:49,520
and she as much as told that to my wife

7566
05:09:53,190 --> 05:09:51,680
she says but you got there first to my

7567
05:09:56,070 --> 05:09:53,200
wife joanne

7568
05:09:59,350 --> 05:09:57,190
we've been

7569
05:10:01,030 --> 05:09:59,360
close friends ever since

7570
05:10:03,590 --> 05:10:01,040
all this time

7571
05:10:05,990 --> 05:10:03,600
ever since the event took place we knew

7572
05:10:08,070 --> 05:10:06,000
each other

7573
05:10:11,590 --> 05:10:08,080
and we never talked about them

7574
05:10:18,230 --> 05:10:13,510
the nurse

7575
05:10:24,070 --> 05:10:21,510
i'll jump back to the time of just after

7576
05:10:31,110 --> 05:10:24,080
the incident occurred the airplanes have

7577
05:10:36,280 --> 05:10:34,788
i was shipped out to the philippines

7578
05:10:39,190 --> 05:10:36,290
also

7579
05:10:42,070 --> 05:10:39,200
[Music]

7580
05:10:45,910 --> 05:10:42,080
was that was that unexpected

7581
05:10:48,830 --> 05:10:45,920
well it developed it was unexpected uh

7582
05:10:52,470 --> 05:10:48,840
these things occurred off and on but

7583
05:10:54,470 --> 05:10:52,480
people but there was a telegram

7584
05:10:56,628 --> 05:10:54,480
a twx

7585
05:10:59,590 --> 05:10:56,638
call number it came in from eighth air

7586
05:11:07,430 --> 05:11:03,590
urgent need for one each flying safety

7587
05:11:11,670 --> 05:11:07,440
officer mos number such and such

7588
05:11:15,430 --> 05:11:13,830
and

7589
05:11:16,628 --> 05:11:15,440
they turn around

7590
05:11:17,510 --> 05:11:16,638
and

7591
05:11:19,270 --> 05:11:17,520
look

7592
05:11:21,350 --> 05:11:19,280
well i i'm not even sure but what it

7593
05:11:23,270 --> 05:11:21,360
might have my name on because i was the

7594
05:11:25,350 --> 05:11:23,280
only weights and balance officer on that

7595
05:11:26,530 --> 05:11:25,360
date

7596
05:11:28,708 --> 05:11:26,540
and uh

7597
05:11:30,150 --> 05:11:28,718
[Music]

7598
05:11:31,990 --> 05:11:30,160
so i was

7599
05:11:33,350 --> 05:11:32,000
shipped out

7600
05:11:35,830 --> 05:11:33,360
going to the parkfield in the

7601
05:11:40,470 --> 05:11:35,840
philippines

7602
05:11:44,470 --> 05:11:43,110
i understand the nurse was shipped out

7603
05:11:47,590 --> 05:11:44,480
the same week

7604
05:11:49,030 --> 05:11:47,600
the sergeant of the guard and the guards

7605
05:11:50,948 --> 05:11:49,040
all of them who

7606
05:11:52,708 --> 05:11:50,958
surrounded the site swept the area and

7607
05:11:55,110 --> 05:11:52,718
picked the pieces up

7608
05:11:56,948 --> 05:11:55,120
they were all shipped out

7609
05:11:58,788 --> 05:11:56,958
every one of us went to a different base

7610
05:12:03,190 --> 05:11:58,798
someplace around the world so that no

7611
05:12:03,200 --> 05:12:05,910
um

7612
05:12:10,310 --> 05:12:08,150
is that by design

7613
05:12:12,230 --> 05:12:10,320
oh yes i believe it was by design

7614
05:12:15,590 --> 05:12:12,240
because

7615
05:12:17,590 --> 05:12:15,600
it takes it it's been

7616
05:12:20,390 --> 05:12:17,600
looking back through the years and even

7617
05:12:21,590 --> 05:12:20,400
at that time i suspected something

7618
05:12:24,788 --> 05:12:21,600
because

7619
05:12:26,868 --> 05:12:24,798
i got clark field

7620
05:12:31,510 --> 05:12:26,878
and they didn't need weights and balance

7621
05:12:35,510 --> 05:12:33,670
well i said well that's what this

7622
05:12:37,350 --> 05:12:35,520
telegram says

7623
05:12:40,310 --> 05:12:37,360
and they said we're not sure what that

7624
05:12:41,110 --> 05:12:40,320
says we don't need when we've got one

7625
05:12:43,990 --> 05:12:41,120
and

7626
05:12:45,270 --> 05:12:44,000
we don't need another one

7627
05:12:47,990 --> 05:12:45,280
they said

7628
05:12:49,830 --> 05:12:48,000
what else do you do and i said well

7629
05:12:51,750 --> 05:12:49,840
operations office

7630
05:12:53,750 --> 05:12:51,760
this is all right i've assigned you to

7631
05:12:55,270 --> 05:12:53,760
squadron so and so as the operations

7632
05:12:56,708 --> 05:12:55,280
office

7633
05:12:59,510 --> 05:12:56,718
that's where

7634
05:13:01,190 --> 05:12:59,520
i went and

7635
05:13:03,510 --> 05:13:01,200
we were involved in full

7636
05:13:06,310 --> 05:13:03,520
high altitude photo recon

7637
05:13:07,510 --> 05:13:06,320
that's what i spent time doing

7638
05:13:08,830 --> 05:13:07,520
taking

7639
05:13:10,470 --> 05:13:08,840
pictures from high

7640
05:13:12,470 --> 05:13:10,480
altitude

7641
05:13:15,020 --> 05:13:12,480
where was the nurse shutdown

7642
05:13:16,310 --> 05:13:15,030
i understand she was shipped to germany

7643
05:13:18,230 --> 05:13:16,320
[Music]

7644
05:13:20,070 --> 05:13:18,240
and i understand

7645
05:13:22,310 --> 05:13:20,080
i was told that there was an airplane

7646
05:13:28,470 --> 05:13:22,320
crash and she and

7647
05:13:32,390 --> 05:13:30,708
the sergeant of the guards that

7648
05:13:33,830 --> 05:13:32,400
surrounded the territory and picked up

7649
05:13:37,270 --> 05:13:33,840
the material

7650
05:13:40,310 --> 05:13:37,280
he lives in new mexico and i understand

7651
05:13:44,708 --> 05:13:42,390
spoke to one of the reporters for the

7652
05:13:49,110 --> 05:13:44,718
first time that his information has not

7653
05:13:55,270 --> 05:13:51,430
i say that because the investigative

7654
05:13:56,788 --> 05:13:55,280
reporter said bob you just saw him

7655
05:13:58,980 --> 05:13:56,798
and

7656
05:14:00,070 --> 05:13:58,990
he had spoken to us for the first time

7657
05:14:04,550 --> 05:14:00,080
[Music]

7658
05:14:04,560 --> 05:14:09,350
well that was nearly 43 years

7659
05:14:10,480 --> 05:14:10,230
yeah

7660
05:14:12,550 --> 05:14:10,490
and

7661
05:14:14,150 --> 05:14:12,560
[Music]

7662
05:14:15,910 --> 05:14:14,160
he said we're

7663
05:14:16,788 --> 05:14:15,920
since we're the first ones he's talked

7664
05:14:18,390 --> 05:14:16,798
with

7665
05:14:21,110 --> 05:14:18,400
we're not going to use any of his

7666
05:14:23,990 --> 05:14:21,120
material at this point because

7667
05:14:26,230 --> 05:14:24,000
we have to dovetail and collaborate and

7668
05:14:30,708 --> 05:14:26,240
make sure

7669
05:14:35,750 --> 05:14:33,350
what you said top speaking means is what

7670
05:14:38,628 --> 05:14:35,760
you have told us this evening

7671
05:14:44,390 --> 05:14:38,638
just emphasizes and proves the point

7672
05:14:48,470 --> 05:14:46,550
this particular reporter by the way

7673
05:14:50,150 --> 05:14:48,480
would come out of new york city and he

7674
05:14:51,990 --> 05:14:50,160
said when he got the assignment he was

7675
05:14:53,910 --> 05:14:52,000
totally aghast they would thank for

7676
05:14:55,590 --> 05:14:53,920
sending him out to

7677
05:14:57,590 --> 05:14:55,600
research some

7678
05:14:59,590 --> 05:14:57,600
unidentified flying object which he

7679
05:15:01,830 --> 05:14:59,600
didn't believe

7680
05:15:03,590 --> 05:15:01,840
they said i become convinced of being

7681
05:15:05,830 --> 05:15:03,600
here

7682
05:15:10,310 --> 05:15:08,630
so roughly speaking that's my story

7683
05:15:12,550 --> 05:15:10,320
[Music]

7684
05:15:13,670 --> 05:15:12,560
i saw a couple things i was involved

7685
05:15:15,670 --> 05:15:13,680
with

7686
05:15:17,510 --> 05:15:15,680
scheduling an aircraft

7687
05:15:20,948 --> 05:15:17,520
i was shipped out with several other

7688
05:15:24,708 --> 05:15:20,958
people all about the same time

7689
05:15:26,868 --> 05:15:24,718
and 40 years went by before a best

7690
05:15:29,510 --> 05:15:26,878
friend of mine

7691
05:15:31,640 --> 05:15:29,520
spoke up for the first time

7692
05:15:33,350 --> 05:15:31,650
i know something about that

7693
05:15:36,150 --> 05:15:33,360
[Music]

7694
05:15:38,628 --> 05:15:36,160
since that time stanton friedman has

7695
05:15:40,310 --> 05:15:38,638
interviewed the individual i

7696
05:15:42,628 --> 05:15:40,320
took them

7697
05:15:45,270 --> 05:15:42,638
took stanton up in the mountains to meet

7698
05:15:47,270 --> 05:15:45,280
the man because

7699
05:15:49,350 --> 05:15:47,280
saturn didn't know whether he should go

7700
05:15:51,750 --> 05:15:49,360
this was rather interesting

7701
05:15:52,948 --> 05:15:51,760
as an aside perhaps i had nothing to do

7702
05:15:54,708 --> 05:15:52,958
with the interview

7703
05:15:56,470 --> 05:15:54,718
but

7704
05:15:59,830 --> 05:15:56,480
i was talking in the stanton and his

7705
05:16:01,670 --> 05:15:59,840
hotel room in roswell and stances well

7706
05:16:03,750 --> 05:16:01,680
someone's always invited me up there for

7707
05:16:06,230 --> 05:16:03,760
dinner tomorrow

7708
05:16:07,670 --> 05:16:06,240
do you suppose i ought to go

7709
05:16:10,390 --> 05:16:07,680
it was kind of

7710
05:16:13,190 --> 05:16:10,400
so i could rent a car and drive up there

7711
05:16:15,350 --> 05:16:13,200
if you think it'd be worthwhile

7712
05:16:20,390 --> 05:16:15,360
and i should stand knowing this

7713
05:16:25,590 --> 05:16:23,190
he's one of the good old wolves

7714
05:16:27,350 --> 05:16:25,600
he speaks his peace

7715
05:16:29,110 --> 05:16:27,360
if he invited you to come up and have

7716
05:16:31,110 --> 05:16:29,120
dinner with him

7717
05:16:33,270 --> 05:16:31,120
that means he wants you to come up and

7718
05:16:34,310 --> 05:16:33,280
have dinner with him

7719
05:16:37,350 --> 05:16:34,320
and

7720
05:16:39,350 --> 05:16:37,360
it wasn't a polite thing he was doing

7721
05:16:41,590 --> 05:16:39,360
he said it's an exceptional thing he's

7722
05:16:43,110 --> 05:16:41,600
doing

7723
05:16:44,868 --> 05:16:43,120
i got home

7724
05:16:47,350 --> 05:16:44,878
cleared the decks with my wife and

7725
05:16:48,868 --> 05:16:47,360
called stan back and said i'll take you

7726
05:16:52,550 --> 05:16:48,878
up there tomorrow

7727
05:16:53,510 --> 05:16:52,560
help you and i'll introduce you

7728
05:16:55,670 --> 05:16:53,520
so

7729
05:16:57,990 --> 05:16:55,680
we did

7730
05:17:00,550 --> 05:16:58,000
they had a great interview and then we

7731
05:17:02,150 --> 05:17:00,560
all went in to have dinner together we

7732
05:17:04,070 --> 05:17:02,160
continued the interview

7733
05:17:04,948 --> 05:17:04,080
clarifying some points

7734
05:17:07,270 --> 05:17:04,958
for

7735
05:17:10,230 --> 05:17:07,280
stanton

7736
05:17:11,670 --> 05:17:10,240
since you and the mortician

7737
05:17:13,350 --> 05:17:11,680
both had

7738
05:17:15,430 --> 05:17:13,360
an interest in the relationship with

7739
05:17:18,230 --> 05:17:15,440
naomi the nurse

7740
05:17:20,390 --> 05:17:18,240
i kind of i have to ask what you think

7741
05:17:23,040 --> 05:17:20,400
about what you were told about

7742
05:17:26,948 --> 05:17:23,050
having been killed

7743
05:17:26,958 --> 05:17:30,470
my thought was

7744
05:17:35,350 --> 05:17:32,390
i had two thoughts about it

7745
05:17:39,030 --> 05:17:37,110
gosh what a waste

7746
05:17:41,190 --> 05:17:39,040
because uh

7747
05:17:42,550 --> 05:17:41,200
when i was working in

7748
05:17:44,628 --> 05:17:42,560
there

7749
05:17:46,150 --> 05:17:44,638
in group operations

7750
05:17:48,150 --> 05:17:46,160
the

7751
05:17:50,150 --> 05:17:48,160
colonel sat in front of me

7752
05:17:52,470 --> 05:17:50,160
or i should say the colonel operations

7753
05:17:55,350 --> 05:17:52,480
officer

7754
05:17:59,350 --> 05:17:55,360
behind whom i sat with my desk

7755
05:18:01,030 --> 05:17:59,360
and to my left was major woody swankitt

7756
05:18:02,708 --> 05:18:01,040
who

7757
05:18:06,708 --> 05:18:02,718
flew the bikini

7758
05:18:19,350 --> 05:18:07,510
and

7759
05:18:21,030 --> 05:18:19,360
was reportedly blown up over the ocean

7760
05:18:22,230 --> 05:18:21,040
he had nothing to do

7761
05:18:24,788 --> 05:18:22,240
with

7762
05:18:27,030 --> 05:18:24,798
the bronzer incident because

7763
05:18:28,190 --> 05:18:27,040
he was going overseas before the rosa

7764
05:18:29,590 --> 05:18:28,200
incident took place

7765
05:18:31,990 --> 05:18:29,600
[Music]

7766
05:18:33,830 --> 05:18:32,000
and for all those things the falls are

7767
05:18:36,150 --> 05:18:33,840
here today and

7768
05:18:38,788 --> 05:18:36,160
gosh fred you're going where tomorrow oh

7769
05:18:42,470 --> 05:18:38,798
is that right you know

7770
05:18:45,030 --> 05:18:42,480
your airplane goes down you're lost

7771
05:18:47,830 --> 05:18:45,040
you know there's another friend now

7772
05:18:50,310 --> 05:18:47,840
and that's what he thought

7773
05:18:54,868 --> 05:18:50,320
the second thing i thought of in regards

7774
05:19:00,310 --> 05:18:57,590
of course now i'm overseas

7775
05:19:04,550 --> 05:19:00,320
i learned this either while i was there

7776
05:19:07,910 --> 05:19:05,950
her airplane had been lost

7777
05:19:08,948 --> 05:19:07,920
[Music]

7778
05:19:11,590 --> 05:19:08,958
so there's

7779
05:19:15,110 --> 05:19:11,600
two possibilities one was the normal

7780
05:19:16,868 --> 05:19:15,120
natural thing of

7781
05:19:18,150 --> 05:19:16,878
some have an airplane

7782
05:19:19,990 --> 05:19:18,160
being lost

7783
05:19:22,310 --> 05:19:20,000
because it does occur

7784
05:19:23,910 --> 05:19:22,320
or

7785
05:19:27,990 --> 05:19:23,920
boy is the government taking that

7786
05:19:30,150 --> 05:19:28,000
extreme to control what she knows

7787
05:19:33,030 --> 05:19:30,160
she was the one that who actually worked

7788
05:19:37,110 --> 05:19:35,430
another thing was they had called this

7789
05:19:38,310 --> 05:19:37,120
mortician

7790
05:19:41,030 --> 05:19:38,320
asking

7791
05:19:46,310 --> 05:19:43,750
information on taking care of the bodies

7792
05:19:47,270 --> 05:19:46,320
because he had just newly returned from

7793
05:19:49,030 --> 05:19:47,280
this

7794
05:19:51,830 --> 05:19:49,040
school the latest

7795
05:19:54,230 --> 05:19:51,840
methods known at that time

7796
05:19:56,628 --> 05:19:54,240
on how to preserve the bias

7797
05:19:57,910 --> 05:19:56,638
she had related to her what

7798
05:20:04,628 --> 05:19:57,920
he knew

7799
05:20:11,830 --> 05:20:06,550
she had more firsthand information about

7800
05:20:15,270 --> 05:20:13,270
what about yourself do you have any

7801
05:20:18,310 --> 05:20:15,280
concern uh

7802
05:20:20,470 --> 05:20:18,320
you're a former military man are you

7803
05:20:23,430 --> 05:20:20,480
drawing the pension no

7804
05:20:24,390 --> 05:20:23,440
so there's not any direct

7805
05:20:27,510 --> 05:20:24,400
hole

7806
05:20:31,110 --> 05:20:27,520
the government has over in terms of

7807
05:20:31,990 --> 05:20:31,120
did you sign any kind of secret seals

7808
05:20:37,750 --> 05:20:32,000
no

7809
05:20:41,670 --> 05:20:40,390
some people were whom they felt had more

7810
05:20:44,310 --> 05:20:41,680
information

7811
05:20:46,150 --> 05:20:44,320
than they knew i did

7812
05:20:48,708 --> 05:20:46,160
and

7813
05:20:54,470 --> 05:20:52,628
as i learned everyone will ship them

7814
05:20:55,590 --> 05:20:54,480
so that probably pretty much took care

7815
05:20:57,670 --> 05:20:55,600
of it that

7816
05:20:59,430 --> 05:20:57,680
was the first initial attempt

7817
05:21:04,948 --> 05:20:59,440
this morning

7818
05:21:08,788 --> 05:21:06,390
he was visited

7819
05:21:11,030 --> 05:21:08,798
his mother and father were visited by

7820
05:21:13,910 --> 05:21:11,040
military

7821
05:21:14,708 --> 05:21:13,920
people whether they were in uniform or

7822
05:21:16,788 --> 05:21:14,718
in

7823
05:21:18,868 --> 05:21:16,798
civilian dress

7824
05:21:23,110 --> 05:21:18,878
and they were warned not to say anything

7825
05:21:23,120 --> 05:21:26,310
very direct

7826
05:21:33,590 --> 05:21:28,150
and once again if

7827
05:21:38,708 --> 05:21:34,548
and

7828
05:21:38,718 --> 05:21:42,470
others were just shipped out

7829
05:21:42,480 --> 05:21:46,230
i came back from overseas

7830
05:21:46,240 --> 05:21:50,948
had resigned his commission

7831
05:21:55,270 --> 05:21:52,470
plus they left him

7832
05:21:58,230 --> 05:21:55,280
walter of course as you probably know

7833
05:22:00,548 --> 05:21:58,240
never did see any

7834
05:22:03,910 --> 05:22:00,558
he personally never saw any of the parts

7835
05:22:05,910 --> 05:22:03,920
or pieces or whatever

7836
05:22:09,190 --> 05:22:05,920
he just happens to be the guy that wrote

7837
05:22:13,590 --> 05:22:09,200
the release and stirred everything up

7838
05:22:13,600 --> 05:22:18,740
thank you mr cherokee i appreciate

7839
05:22:18,750 --> 05:22:28,830
[Music]

7840
05:22:34,708 --> 05:22:33,190
questions that i've answered 15 20 times

7841
05:22:36,548 --> 05:22:34,718
same question just a little bit

7842
05:22:38,628 --> 05:22:36,558
differently um you have to shake your

7843
05:22:40,310 --> 05:22:38,638
heads back off and uh

7844
05:22:42,310 --> 05:22:40,320
reboot yeah

7845
05:22:43,910 --> 05:22:42,320
well but i don't need to give you my

7846
05:22:46,708 --> 05:22:43,920
standard lecture about i want you to be

7847
05:22:49,750 --> 05:22:46,718
relaxed it's just you and me talking

7848
05:22:51,670 --> 05:22:49,760
just sort of ignore tom this camera

7849
05:22:53,030 --> 05:22:51,680
just pretend they're not here

7850
05:22:55,430 --> 05:22:53,040
i want you to be as comfortable as

7851
05:22:57,510 --> 05:22:55,440
possible i do have a

7852
05:22:59,110 --> 05:22:57,520
bad habit and you may think i'm looking

7853
05:23:01,030 --> 05:22:59,120
over the camera

7854
05:23:04,868 --> 05:23:01,040
i'll do that okay

7855
05:23:06,548 --> 05:23:04,878
you know when i'm trying to think i may

7856
05:23:09,830 --> 05:23:06,558
lose eye contact with you and that was

7857
05:23:12,788 --> 05:23:09,840
just strictly uh

7858
05:23:15,670 --> 05:23:12,798
i want to break i mean just uh that's a

7859
05:23:19,510 --> 05:23:16,708
for

7860
05:23:21,030 --> 05:23:19,520
10 seconds okay how are we rolling yes

7861
05:23:22,628 --> 05:23:21,040
we are all right

7862
05:23:24,708 --> 05:23:22,638
uh

7863
05:23:26,470 --> 05:23:24,718
mr hall can you tell me about the day

7864
05:23:29,270 --> 05:23:26,480
the colonel blaster gave you a call

7865
05:23:31,430 --> 05:23:29,280
until you put out news release

7866
05:23:33,190 --> 05:23:31,440
what was happening that day as you as

7867
05:23:34,868 --> 05:23:33,200
you recall

7868
05:23:37,270 --> 05:23:34,878
conversations

7869
05:23:39,270 --> 05:23:37,280
basically up until the time i got the

7870
05:23:41,670 --> 05:23:39,280
phone call from i sure can't tell you

7871
05:23:44,708 --> 05:23:41,680
what was happening it's probably a very

7872
05:23:46,868 --> 05:23:44,718
routine day uh

7873
05:23:49,910 --> 05:23:46,878
i was

7874
05:23:52,548 --> 05:23:49,920
doing either some public relations work

7875
05:23:55,590 --> 05:23:52,558
based housing

7876
05:23:57,270 --> 05:23:55,600
or something else i really i can't

7877
05:23:59,590 --> 05:23:57,280
remember what it was it was just a

7878
05:24:01,590 --> 05:23:59,600
normal work day

7879
05:24:03,590 --> 05:24:01,600
got the telephone call from

7880
05:24:06,868 --> 05:24:03,600
arnold blanchard

7881
05:24:10,390 --> 05:24:06,878
and in essence he told me that

7882
05:24:14,948 --> 05:24:10,400
and he had his position

7883
05:24:18,868 --> 05:24:16,548
give me a little bit of idea where it

7884
05:24:22,708 --> 05:24:18,878
came from and

7885
05:24:23,830 --> 05:24:22,718
ranch north west of roswell

7886
05:24:25,190 --> 05:24:23,840
and

7887
05:24:27,350 --> 05:24:25,200
stated that

7888
05:24:31,190 --> 05:24:27,360
major marcel jesse marcel who is our

7889
05:24:33,030 --> 05:24:31,200
base intelligence officer was going to

7890
05:24:34,230 --> 05:24:33,040
apply it to

7891
05:24:36,628 --> 05:24:34,240
fort worth

7892
05:24:37,830 --> 05:24:36,638
turn it over to general roger rainey who

7893
05:24:40,070 --> 05:24:37,840
was commander

7894
05:24:42,548 --> 05:24:40,080
commanding general of the 8th air force

7895
05:24:44,150 --> 05:24:42,558
at that time and forward

7896
05:24:46,470 --> 05:24:44,160
and with a current question what do you

7897
05:24:52,628 --> 05:24:49,510
he told me to prepare a release

7898
05:24:54,948 --> 05:24:52,638
with basically the information that he

7899
05:24:57,670 --> 05:24:54,958
gave me over the phone

7900
05:25:00,230 --> 05:24:57,680
when it was done to take it into

7901
05:25:01,430 --> 05:25:00,240
community and deliver and deliver to the

7902
05:25:03,510 --> 05:25:01,440
four

7903
05:25:04,948 --> 05:25:03,520
news media we had in roswell at that

7904
05:25:07,110 --> 05:25:04,958
time

7905
05:25:09,990 --> 05:25:07,120
which is what i did

7906
05:25:11,190 --> 05:25:10,000
uh as best you recall that

7907
05:25:12,788 --> 05:25:11,200
happened

7908
05:25:14,310 --> 05:25:12,798
initial phone conversation during the

7909
05:25:15,830 --> 05:25:14,320
morning or

7910
05:25:17,670 --> 05:25:15,840
in the afternoon

7911
05:25:19,350 --> 05:25:17,680
to the best of my remembrance it would

7912
05:25:22,628 --> 05:25:19,360
have been in the morning

7913
05:25:26,150 --> 05:25:23,990
have to guess

7914
05:25:28,070 --> 05:25:26,160
somewhere i would

7915
05:25:30,310 --> 05:25:28,080
guess around nine

7916
05:25:33,030 --> 05:25:30,320
o'clock the only reason i come up with

7917
05:25:34,948 --> 05:25:33,040
that figure is that had to be done and

7918
05:25:38,548 --> 05:25:34,958
gotten into town

7919
05:25:40,150 --> 05:25:38,558
so that it would have gone to the

7920
05:25:42,548 --> 05:25:40,160
record

7921
05:25:45,990 --> 05:25:42,558
in time for them to set it and to have

7922
05:25:48,150 --> 05:25:46,000
gone ahead and running in that

7923
05:25:49,990 --> 05:25:48,160
today's evening paper

7924
05:25:53,190 --> 05:25:50,000
and would you know what day

7925
05:25:56,910 --> 05:25:55,990
i would say the 8th of

7926
05:25:59,510 --> 05:25:56,920
july

7927
05:26:01,270 --> 05:25:59,520
1947. that was the date of the roswell

7928
05:26:03,590 --> 05:26:01,280
day record article

7929
05:26:07,110 --> 05:26:03,600
okay what uh once you wrote up the news

7930
05:26:10,948 --> 05:26:07,120
release then what happened after that

7931
05:26:13,590 --> 05:26:10,958
as i said i had to take it into town

7932
05:26:16,310 --> 05:26:13,600
he told me to take it in so that if

7933
05:26:18,150 --> 05:26:16,320
there was any validity to the fact that

7934
05:26:20,150 --> 05:26:18,160
this was a flying

7935
05:26:23,270 --> 05:26:20,160
saucer

7936
05:26:25,510 --> 05:26:23,280
and information got out

7937
05:26:27,670 --> 05:26:25,520
to other news media other than our own

7938
05:26:30,708 --> 05:26:27,680
he felt that he wanted our people there

7939
05:26:34,150 --> 05:26:30,718
in roswell who had first crack at it

7940
05:26:36,230 --> 05:26:34,160
didn't want them to feel that he had

7941
05:26:38,628 --> 05:26:36,240
given the information out to someone who

7942
05:26:39,990 --> 05:26:38,638
got to the

7943
05:26:41,510 --> 05:26:40,000
press services

7944
05:26:44,070 --> 05:26:41,520
outside of ross

7945
05:26:45,670 --> 05:26:44,080
so i put in town and delivered

7946
05:26:47,910 --> 05:26:45,680
two four

7947
05:26:49,910 --> 05:26:47,920
news media in town two radio stations

7948
05:26:52,310 --> 05:26:49,920
and two newspapers do you happen to

7949
05:26:54,708 --> 05:26:52,320
recall what your itinerary was who you

7950
05:26:56,948 --> 05:26:54,718
went to first for example

7951
05:26:59,430 --> 05:26:56,958
i'm almost certain i went to radio

7952
05:27:00,868 --> 05:26:59,440
station kgfl first

7953
05:27:05,110 --> 05:27:00,878
uh secondly

7954
05:27:06,310 --> 05:27:05,120
to uh ksws they were a half a block

7955
05:27:08,830 --> 05:27:06,320
north

7956
05:27:11,750 --> 05:27:08,840
and then i took it to

7957
05:27:13,030 --> 05:27:11,760
the bailey record which was a block

7958
05:27:16,470 --> 05:27:13,040
further and more

7959
05:27:17,430 --> 05:27:16,480
and then on my way back out to the base

7960
05:27:48,310 --> 05:27:17,440
i

7961
05:27:49,510 --> 05:27:48,320
many many years

7962
05:27:51,990 --> 05:27:49,520
i believe

7963
05:27:55,990 --> 05:27:52,000
first place i went was to was at the

7964
05:27:58,230 --> 05:27:56,000
kgfl and i believe i just simply

7965
05:28:00,230 --> 05:27:58,240
left it on the

7966
05:28:02,470 --> 05:28:00,240
desk of the receptionist that's how i

7967
05:28:05,030 --> 05:28:02,480
recall she was not there

7968
05:28:11,030 --> 05:28:08,390
frank joyce to the best of my memory was

7969
05:28:13,270 --> 05:28:11,040
in the studio and he could see

7970
05:28:14,868 --> 05:28:13,280
the reception area and also see out on

7971
05:28:17,750 --> 05:28:14,878
the street

7972
05:28:22,390 --> 05:28:17,760
i think i probably pointed at it to

7973
05:28:27,110 --> 05:28:24,230
i don't remember

7974
05:28:29,910 --> 05:28:27,120
what had happened at ksws

7975
05:28:31,830 --> 05:28:29,920
the record i gave it to

7976
05:28:35,430 --> 05:28:31,840
the editor because he sat

7977
05:28:38,230 --> 05:28:35,440
close to the front door

7978
05:28:40,070 --> 05:28:38,240
probably said i know how are you dad

7979
05:28:43,830 --> 05:28:40,080
might like to have this or

7980
05:28:49,670 --> 05:28:46,390
nothing fantastic just the normal

7981
05:28:53,270 --> 05:28:49,680
routine what i did when i brought him a

7982
05:28:54,708 --> 05:28:53,280
news release now and down to the

7983
05:28:57,110 --> 05:28:54,718
dispatch

7984
05:29:00,788 --> 05:28:57,120
again i believe there

7985
05:29:05,030 --> 05:29:03,510
either the editor's

7986
05:29:07,350 --> 05:29:05,040
office or

7987
05:29:08,230 --> 05:29:07,360
the publisher's office i know them real

7988
05:29:10,548 --> 05:29:08,240
well

7989
05:29:12,390 --> 05:29:10,558
occasionally i set my head in a shoot

7990
05:29:16,470 --> 05:29:12,400
agreed with the publisher

7991
05:29:22,948 --> 05:29:20,310
delivering us to who i give it's uh

7992
05:29:23,750 --> 05:29:22,958
i may have seen a half dozen people

7993
05:29:25,350 --> 05:29:23,760
in

7994
05:29:27,830 --> 05:29:25,360
the different uh

7995
05:29:29,750 --> 05:29:27,840
news media offices and

7996
05:29:32,868 --> 05:29:29,760
who i

7997
05:29:34,070 --> 05:29:32,878
finally said here it is uh this had a

7998
05:29:37,110 --> 05:29:34,080
heart room

7999
05:29:38,230 --> 05:29:37,120
differentiate from one to the other

8000
05:29:39,350 --> 05:29:38,240
nothing

8001
05:29:41,270 --> 05:29:39,360
nobody said

8002
05:29:42,948 --> 05:29:41,280
oh wow

8003
05:29:45,430 --> 05:29:42,958
you know

8004
05:29:47,270 --> 05:29:45,440
but put it down

8005
05:29:48,788 --> 05:29:47,280
most german street news releases that's

8006
05:29:50,390 --> 05:29:48,798
right

8007
05:29:52,868 --> 05:29:50,400
this is not

8008
05:29:56,150 --> 05:29:52,878
something that was unusual if you walk

8009
05:29:58,470 --> 05:29:56,160
into someone's office and say

8010
05:30:00,070 --> 05:29:58,480
here's a news release which i had done

8011
05:30:03,270 --> 05:30:00,080
many many times

8012
05:30:06,548 --> 05:30:03,280
and nothing was uh

8013
05:30:08,628 --> 05:30:06,558
that hot they had to grab it and run

8014
05:30:11,270 --> 05:30:08,638
back and stop presses and that type of

8015
05:30:13,350 --> 05:30:11,280
thing so it was just

8016
05:30:14,390 --> 05:30:13,360
they took it and probably glanced at it

8017
05:30:21,990 --> 05:30:14,400
and

8018
05:30:24,470 --> 05:30:22,000
completed your appointed rounds

8019
05:30:26,628 --> 05:30:24,480
i returned to the base when i got into

8020
05:30:29,270 --> 05:30:26,638
my office the phone was raining i picked

8021
05:30:31,670 --> 05:30:29,280
it up and the first call was from uh

8022
05:30:33,590 --> 05:30:31,680
london england

8023
05:30:35,430 --> 05:30:33,600
i answered and answered the phone that's

8024
05:30:36,310 --> 05:30:35,440
how i found out

8025
05:30:38,390 --> 05:30:36,320
some

8026
05:30:42,070 --> 05:30:38,400
news man over there

8027
05:30:45,350 --> 05:30:42,080
his question was how did major marcel

8028
05:30:46,548 --> 05:30:45,360
know how to fly this object

8029
05:30:49,430 --> 05:30:46,558
i had

8030
05:30:52,070 --> 05:30:49,440
in the release and stated that major

8031
05:30:54,948 --> 05:30:52,080
marcel had flown

8032
05:30:57,590 --> 05:30:54,958
the object to fort worth meaning that he

8033
05:31:00,708 --> 05:30:57,600
had put it on an aeroplane a gun and

8034
05:31:05,750 --> 05:31:00,718
flew the aeroplane because that

8035
05:31:10,230 --> 05:31:08,070
there were tremendous number of calls of

8036
05:31:12,310 --> 05:31:10,240
the same effect

8037
05:31:15,590 --> 05:31:12,320
if this was an unidentified flying

8038
05:31:18,230 --> 05:31:15,600
object how would we have someone within

8039
05:31:19,430 --> 05:31:18,240
our air force that knew how to just get

8040
05:31:21,030 --> 05:31:19,440
in there and

8041
05:31:23,670 --> 05:31:21,040
flip switches and

8042
05:31:26,628 --> 05:31:23,680
controls

8043
05:31:30,230 --> 05:31:29,110
oh some rhetoric first is this another

8044
05:31:34,470 --> 05:31:30,240
one of those

8045
05:31:36,788 --> 05:31:34,480
fly by stories uh can you verify it

8046
05:31:40,548 --> 05:31:36,798
commanding officer was the one that

8047
05:31:42,150 --> 05:31:40,558
stated this is what we had

8048
05:31:44,470 --> 05:31:42,160
no verification enough for you but for

8049
05:32:02,548 --> 05:31:44,480
me that was more than enough occasion

8050
05:32:07,510 --> 05:32:06,070
i left there on 7 30 8 o'clock

8051
05:32:10,230 --> 05:32:07,520
by that time it

8052
05:32:11,590 --> 05:32:10,240
tapered off completely and i was

8053
05:32:13,270 --> 05:32:11,600
spent the last

8054
05:32:14,868 --> 05:32:13,280
half hour so just

8055
05:32:17,110 --> 05:32:14,878
looking over what had happened during

8056
05:32:20,150 --> 05:32:17,120
the course of the day and

8057
05:32:22,708 --> 05:32:20,160
beyond uh rob listen to the base didn't

8058
05:32:24,310 --> 05:32:22,718
stop operating because

8059
05:32:27,270 --> 05:32:24,320
we found that

8060
05:32:29,430 --> 05:32:27,280
so-called flying saucer

8061
05:32:31,830 --> 05:32:29,440
what happened to that

8062
05:32:34,070 --> 05:32:31,840
as you recall the only thing that

8063
05:32:36,708 --> 05:32:34,080
happened of any import as far as i was

8064
05:32:47,830 --> 05:32:37,670
i

8065
05:32:50,788 --> 05:32:47,840
balloon

8066
05:32:53,990 --> 05:32:50,798
with which i just read this tremendous

8067
05:32:56,150 --> 05:32:54,000
sigh of relief and i think i turned to

8068
05:33:00,390 --> 05:32:56,160
one of the people in the office and said

8069
05:33:05,910 --> 05:33:03,750
we fit in the category of hundreds of

8070
05:33:06,868 --> 05:33:05,920
others that had said they

8071
05:33:08,868 --> 05:33:06,878
saw

8072
05:33:11,750 --> 05:33:08,878
flying objects

8073
05:33:13,750 --> 05:33:11,760
it was not uncommon for

8074
05:33:14,930 --> 05:33:13,760
people to think they had a flying object

8075
05:33:16,548 --> 05:33:14,940
and then loaned the whole

8076
05:33:19,190 --> 05:33:16,558
[Music]

8077
05:33:22,868 --> 05:33:19,200
shot down

8078
05:33:27,270 --> 05:33:24,628
did you see any of those records from

8079
05:33:28,868 --> 05:33:27,280
any material none whatsoever do you

8080
05:33:33,110 --> 05:33:28,878
believe that colonel blanchard had seen

8081
05:33:39,670 --> 05:33:33,120
it yes i do and why do you feel that way

8082
05:33:44,868 --> 05:33:41,590
i don't want to say dumb hoe but i don't

8083
05:33:46,628 --> 05:33:44,878
think he would have been so confident in

8084
05:33:47,510 --> 05:33:46,638
his comment

8085
05:33:50,230 --> 05:33:47,520
uh

8086
05:33:51,590 --> 05:33:50,240
we have a flying saucer in our

8087
05:33:53,670 --> 05:33:51,600
professional

8088
05:33:55,510 --> 05:33:53,680
parts of the flying saucer

8089
05:33:57,830 --> 05:33:55,520
over this many years i don't remember

8090
05:34:00,708 --> 05:33:57,840
exactly

8091
05:34:03,510 --> 05:34:00,718
he wasn't overly excited he wasn't

8092
05:34:06,708 --> 05:34:03,520
flippant about it it was a normal

8093
05:34:08,470 --> 05:34:06,718
routine type of conversation that

8094
05:34:10,390 --> 05:34:08,480
we'd have when he called me and said he

8095
05:34:12,070 --> 05:34:10,400
wants this done

8096
05:34:13,990 --> 05:34:12,080
but he sounded pretty positive about it

8097
05:34:16,230 --> 05:34:14,000
he sounded positive yes

8098
05:34:18,390 --> 05:34:16,240
i believe he had

8099
05:34:20,948 --> 05:34:18,400
would you have any reason to believe

8100
05:34:25,190 --> 05:34:20,958
that colonel blanchard was mistaken

8101
05:34:29,190 --> 05:34:27,750
balloon or observation device

8102
05:34:30,948 --> 05:34:29,200
i don't think there's a

8103
05:34:31,910 --> 05:34:30,958
one chance in a

8104
05:34:34,150 --> 05:34:31,920
billion

8105
05:34:36,628 --> 05:34:34,160
that he would not have recognized

8106
05:34:38,788 --> 05:34:36,638
whatever

8107
05:34:42,230 --> 05:34:38,798
he was not he was a west point graduate

8108
05:34:43,350 --> 05:34:42,240
class of 37th as i recall

8109
05:34:45,190 --> 05:34:43,360
uh

8110
05:34:47,270 --> 05:34:45,200
had gone up through

8111
05:34:49,270 --> 05:34:47,280
from second lieutenant after colonel not

8112
05:34:52,628 --> 05:34:49,280
too many years

8113
05:34:55,030 --> 05:34:52,638
very intelligent individual

8114
05:34:56,310 --> 05:34:55,040
not the type to just jump off on

8115
05:34:57,910 --> 05:34:56,320
tangents

8116
05:35:00,390 --> 05:34:57,920
i think he

8117
05:35:01,830 --> 05:35:00,400
knew a weather balloon if he

8118
05:35:19,430 --> 05:35:01,840
had seen it and that would have been the

8119
05:35:23,430 --> 05:35:21,190
is it possible that major colonel

8120
05:35:25,430 --> 05:35:23,440
blanchard might have been misinformed by

8121
05:35:27,590 --> 05:35:25,440
somebody who told them about told him

8122
05:35:29,510 --> 05:35:27,600
about what this wreckage was without

8123
05:35:31,590 --> 05:35:29,520
having seen it for him i would doubt

8124
05:35:33,110 --> 05:35:31,600
that very much i don't think

8125
05:35:35,190 --> 05:35:33,120
he would have

8126
05:35:38,150 --> 05:35:35,200
taken the actions he did

8127
05:35:39,750 --> 05:35:38,160
by taking going down to operations with

8128
05:35:42,390 --> 05:35:39,760
it

8129
05:35:45,590 --> 05:35:42,400
if he was there in the operations

8130
05:35:48,150 --> 05:35:45,600
building he certainly saw it

8131
05:35:49,750 --> 05:35:48,160
i'm sure that maybe marcel had talked to

8132
05:35:52,548 --> 05:35:49,760
him and had

8133
05:35:54,470 --> 05:35:52,558
given him some appreciate advice as

8134
05:35:55,990 --> 05:35:54,480
far as he was concerned

8135
05:35:58,310 --> 05:35:56,000
by

8136
05:36:00,948 --> 05:35:58,320
that word

8137
05:36:03,750 --> 05:36:00,958
i don't know how much just marcel knew

8138
05:36:05,670 --> 05:36:03,760
about it but he again was a very

8139
05:36:08,788 --> 05:36:05,680
intelligent individual

8140
05:36:09,910 --> 05:36:08,798
and not the type that would just jump at

8141
05:36:12,548 --> 05:36:09,920
uh

8142
05:36:13,990 --> 05:36:12,558
anything and try to carry it

8143
05:36:15,990 --> 05:36:14,000
to an end

8144
05:36:17,910 --> 05:36:16,000
and

8145
05:36:20,070 --> 05:36:17,920
between the two of them

8146
05:36:22,948 --> 05:36:20,080
i'm certain that

8147
05:36:26,150 --> 05:36:22,958
one or the other would have called the

8148
05:36:28,708 --> 05:36:26,160
other one's hand if it uh

8149
05:36:30,548 --> 05:36:28,718
was a weather balloon

8150
05:36:32,230 --> 05:36:30,558
what did you think when uh general randy

8151
05:36:33,990 --> 05:36:32,240
said it was a weather one do you believe

8152
05:36:37,590 --> 05:36:34,000
that

8153
05:36:40,230 --> 05:36:37,600
uh we're in 1947 when the general said

8154
05:36:43,030 --> 05:36:40,240
it was the weather balloon comes away

8155
05:36:43,590 --> 05:36:43,040
and there's a load off of our

8156
05:36:47,350 --> 05:36:43,600
right i was mind

8157
05:36:49,350 --> 05:36:47,360
to come and i said are mine my office

8158
05:36:50,788 --> 05:36:49,360
you don't want to be focused

8159
05:36:52,628 --> 05:36:50,798
on the complete

8160
05:36:56,310 --> 05:36:52,638
you're just as happy that they're very

8161
05:37:00,548 --> 05:36:57,030
that

8162
05:37:03,030 --> 05:37:00,558
end of the story uh

8163
05:37:04,868 --> 05:37:03,040
surprisingly

8164
05:37:06,628 --> 05:37:04,878
i used to see general

8165
05:37:07,590 --> 05:37:06,638
that time you can't have the phone

8166
05:37:10,230 --> 05:37:07,600
general

8167
05:37:12,070 --> 05:37:10,240
uh last year when he came into town he

8168
05:37:13,670 --> 05:37:12,080
called me and to have breakfast with him

8169
05:37:15,830 --> 05:37:13,680
for lunch

8170
05:37:17,830 --> 05:37:15,840
uh

8171
05:37:20,868 --> 05:37:17,840
never before it was mentioned

8172
05:37:23,750 --> 05:37:20,878
at any time during our conversations

8173
05:37:25,990 --> 05:37:23,760
was that deliberate on your part no

8174
05:37:28,628 --> 05:37:26,000
i had very frankly

8175
05:37:31,030 --> 05:37:28,638
forgotten about him

8176
05:37:32,788 --> 05:37:31,040
and whether he had forgotten i doubt it

8177
05:37:35,590 --> 05:37:32,798
very much

8178
05:37:36,948 --> 05:37:35,600
but he just never brought it up

8179
05:37:38,628 --> 05:37:36,958
um

8180
05:37:40,788 --> 05:37:38,638
did anything happen

8181
05:37:41,990 --> 05:37:40,798
did the colonel say anything about this

8182
05:37:43,510 --> 05:37:42,000
incident

8183
05:37:45,670 --> 05:37:43,520
shortly after

8184
05:37:48,390 --> 05:37:45,680
general rainey's statement

8185
05:37:50,470 --> 05:37:48,400
president staff meeting in the next

8186
05:37:52,788 --> 05:37:50,480
staff meeting

8187
05:37:53,830 --> 05:37:52,798
it was about a week later i think we had

8188
05:37:57,190 --> 05:37:53,840
a little

8189
05:38:02,548 --> 05:38:00,150
he made some comments about our agenda

8190
05:38:05,190 --> 05:38:02,558
and what we're going to talk about

8191
05:38:06,708 --> 05:38:05,200
i believe after those comments he made

8192
05:38:10,470 --> 05:38:06,718
some statements

8193
05:38:13,110 --> 05:38:10,480
a the fact we sure messed up on that one

8194
05:38:14,628 --> 05:38:13,120
uh last week

8195
05:38:16,788 --> 05:38:14,638
matter of fact

8196
05:38:18,470 --> 05:38:16,798
that outfit that was letting

8197
05:38:20,470 --> 05:38:18,480
setting those uh

8198
05:38:23,030 --> 05:38:20,480
weather booms

8199
05:38:25,110 --> 05:38:23,040
were here on our station

8200
05:38:27,510 --> 05:38:25,120
they were from white sands

8201
05:38:28,470 --> 05:38:27,520
and they were

8202
05:38:29,430 --> 05:38:28,480
checking

8203
05:38:30,948 --> 05:38:29,440
the

8204
05:38:37,020 --> 05:38:30,958
upper

8205
05:38:37,030 --> 05:38:54,628
[Music]

8206
05:38:58,628 --> 05:38:56,868
did you ever have a chance to talk with

8207
05:39:00,708 --> 05:38:58,638
jesse marcel

8208
05:39:05,670 --> 05:39:00,718
not until about

8209
05:39:06,628 --> 05:39:05,680
1980 next time i talked to

8210
05:39:10,310 --> 05:39:06,638
you see

8211
05:39:13,590 --> 05:39:10,320
cater roswell with johnny mann from a

8212
05:39:15,030 --> 05:39:13,600
tv station in new orleans

8213
05:39:18,070 --> 05:39:15,040
he was taking a

8214
05:39:18,550 --> 05:39:18,080
man out to a site to show where it

8215
05:39:21,510 --> 05:39:18,560
happened

8216
05:39:24,150 --> 05:39:21,520
[Music]

8217
05:39:26,230 --> 05:39:24,160
he interviewed myself and

8218
05:39:28,948 --> 05:39:26,240
had brought jesse little

8219
05:39:31,510 --> 05:39:28,958
and i spent

8220
05:39:33,190 --> 05:39:31,520
a half two hours with

8221
05:39:35,990 --> 05:39:33,200
the fact that he was there and talking

8222
05:39:41,030 --> 05:39:38,628
he baptized it that was

8223
05:39:43,430 --> 05:39:41,040
no weather bullet what i

8224
05:39:45,030 --> 05:39:43,440
brought in the general's office

8225
05:39:47,510 --> 05:39:45,040
is not

8226
05:39:50,708 --> 05:39:47,520
what was there when i came back in the

8227
05:39:55,110 --> 05:39:53,110
i had to convince me that

8228
05:39:56,390 --> 05:39:55,120
he was the neighbor of my block down the

8229
05:39:58,708 --> 05:39:56,400
street

8230
05:39:59,050 --> 05:39:58,718
in roswell

8231
05:40:13,160 --> 05:39:59,060
i

8232
05:40:18,470 --> 05:40:13,170
11 year

8233
05:40:23,190 --> 05:40:20,948
he still is

8234
05:40:25,110 --> 05:40:23,200
what about another

8235
05:40:30,650 --> 05:40:25,120
officer there on the base who worked

8236
05:40:35,910 --> 05:40:33,670
[Music]

8237
05:40:37,270 --> 05:40:35,920
yes i had heard it

8238
05:40:40,310 --> 05:40:37,280
uh

8239
05:40:47,190 --> 05:40:44,708
osi or cia or something i had no

8240
05:40:48,628 --> 05:40:47,200
association with him whatsoever at any

8241
05:40:51,110 --> 05:40:48,638
time uh

8242
05:40:54,510 --> 05:40:52,230
had

8243
05:40:57,990 --> 05:40:54,520
you asked his question in

8244
05:40:59,350 --> 05:40:58,000
1947 and he walked by that i said that's

8245
05:41:02,548 --> 05:40:59,360
him over there

8246
05:41:04,470 --> 05:41:02,558
uh evident about the extent

8247
05:41:08,310 --> 05:41:04,480
had nothing to do with

8248
05:41:10,390 --> 05:41:09,350
there are

8249
05:41:12,390 --> 05:41:10,400
been some

8250
05:41:14,948 --> 05:41:12,400
talk about the circumstances under which

8251
05:41:17,190 --> 05:41:14,958
you left the air force

8252
05:41:18,548 --> 05:41:17,200
the suggestion was that somehow you were

8253
05:41:20,868 --> 05:41:18,558
pressured into

8254
05:41:25,970 --> 05:41:20,878
into leaving because of your involvement

8255
05:41:32,150 --> 05:41:28,548
[Music]

8256
05:41:36,788 --> 05:41:34,470
at the time of the incident we had a

8257
05:41:40,708 --> 05:41:36,798
two-month-old daughter

8258
05:41:43,750 --> 05:41:40,718
we built a house a couple months before

8259
05:41:46,868 --> 05:41:43,760
i was gone a lot of the time i had about

8260
05:41:49,830 --> 05:41:46,878
four different jobs

8261
05:41:52,390 --> 05:41:49,840
we were starting to wonder

8262
05:41:54,310 --> 05:41:52,400
you know my daughter at her age of two

8263
05:41:56,390 --> 05:41:54,320
and a half or three months

8264
05:41:58,788 --> 05:41:56,400
wondering what this was that came in the

8265
05:42:01,510 --> 05:41:58,798
house every once in a while

8266
05:42:03,390 --> 05:42:01,520
my wife and i talked about it and talked

8267
05:42:06,548 --> 05:42:03,400
about

8268
05:42:08,548 --> 05:42:06,558
a decision for us to make

8269
05:42:10,628 --> 05:42:08,558
try to decide

8270
05:42:12,788 --> 05:42:10,638
to stay in service

8271
05:42:14,788 --> 05:42:12,798
or get out

8272
05:42:19,830 --> 05:42:14,798
we take this thing back and forth back

8273
05:42:22,070 --> 05:42:19,840
and forth and finally in february

8274
05:42:24,788 --> 05:42:22,080
we've decided that

8275
05:42:26,708 --> 05:42:24,798
we stay in roswell i follow enough

8276
05:42:31,190 --> 05:42:26,718
people in business that are that good

8277
05:42:35,670 --> 05:42:33,510
i submitted my

8278
05:42:39,590 --> 05:42:35,680
letter of resignation

8279
05:42:40,948 --> 05:42:39,600
i was a member air force officer

8280
05:42:42,788 --> 05:42:40,958
put it on

8281
05:42:45,750 --> 05:42:42,798
colonel landrieu's destination

8282
05:42:50,788 --> 05:42:45,760
1948.

8283
05:42:52,708 --> 05:42:50,798
i got a twix

8284
05:42:54,948 --> 05:42:52,718
at the base

8285
05:42:57,990 --> 05:42:54,958
started out with uh

8286
05:42:59,670 --> 05:42:58,000
walter g hawk serial number zero forty

8287
05:43:00,948 --> 05:42:59,680
one one two three

8288
05:43:03,590 --> 05:43:00,958
and goes

8289
05:43:04,948 --> 05:43:03,600
and on and on and it

8290
05:43:06,868 --> 05:43:04,958
states that

8291
05:43:10,150 --> 05:43:06,878
relieved of all duties and assignments

8292
05:43:12,788 --> 05:43:10,160
and all that and ends up mr walter g

8293
05:43:15,990 --> 05:43:12,798
hart's permanent address is 1405 at 7th

8294
05:43:17,350 --> 05:43:16,000
street hospital new mexico i

8295
05:43:19,750 --> 05:43:17,360
thought it was rather humorous it

8296
05:43:22,788 --> 05:43:19,760
started out as lieutenant hart up here

8297
05:43:25,830 --> 05:43:22,798
and twitch that long at the bottom i was

8298
05:43:27,350 --> 05:43:25,840
no longer i was mr caught

8299
05:43:36,470 --> 05:43:27,360
i

8300
05:43:38,470 --> 05:43:36,480
happened on the base

8301
05:43:41,030 --> 05:43:38,480
it was a personal manner that my wife

8302
05:43:42,548 --> 05:43:41,040
and i both felt uh

8303
05:43:43,670 --> 05:43:42,558
we'd like to raise our daughter in

8304
05:43:45,750 --> 05:43:43,680
roswell

8305
05:43:47,750 --> 05:43:45,760
small enough community good school

8306
05:43:49,110 --> 05:43:47,760
system everything else

8307
05:43:51,750 --> 05:43:49,120
maybe we shouldn't been thinking that

8308
05:43:53,750 --> 05:43:51,760
far ahead at that point in our life

8309
05:43:55,990 --> 05:43:53,760
it was one of the things that we were

8310
05:43:56,830 --> 05:43:56,000
taking into account

8311
05:44:02,390 --> 05:43:56,840
i

8312
05:44:06,310 --> 05:44:02,400
transferred to fort worth

8313
05:44:11,190 --> 05:44:08,628
four or six months

8314
05:44:15,830 --> 05:44:11,200
uh we didn't want to go to fort worth

8315
05:44:20,788 --> 05:44:18,788
blanchard had told me that if i did go

8316
05:44:23,110 --> 05:44:20,798
forward that

8317
05:44:24,390 --> 05:44:23,120
i would become populations officer 8th

8318
05:44:25,510 --> 05:44:24,400
air force

8319
05:44:30,390 --> 05:44:25,520
he

8320
05:44:33,590 --> 05:44:30,400
subsequently and became uh operations

8321
05:44:35,670 --> 05:44:33,600
officer made air forces from then on he

8322
05:44:36,868 --> 05:44:35,680
started going upstate

8323
05:44:38,390 --> 05:44:36,878
lateral

8324
05:44:46,628 --> 05:44:38,400
rapidly

8325
05:44:52,070 --> 05:44:48,948
i have to stop i always say curse easy

8326
05:44:55,110 --> 05:44:52,080
lemay uh

8327
05:44:57,910 --> 05:44:56,470
so as far as you're concerned you could

8328
05:44:58,868 --> 05:44:57,920
have stayed with the military during a

8329
05:45:00,628 --> 05:44:58,878
rather

8330
05:45:01,430 --> 05:45:00,638
bright future

8331
05:45:03,590 --> 05:45:01,440
no

8332
05:45:04,910 --> 05:45:03,600
talk about your being shipped out after

8333
05:45:07,990 --> 05:45:04,920
the

8334
05:45:09,830 --> 05:45:08,000
unless uh

8335
05:45:12,948 --> 05:45:09,840
they just went on the way they had been

8336
05:45:17,270 --> 05:45:15,670
not the day i arrived on the station but

8337
05:45:18,548 --> 05:45:17,280
we came back from

8338
05:45:20,310 --> 05:45:18,558
mckinney

8339
05:45:24,788 --> 05:45:20,320
right they called the public relations

8340
05:45:30,150 --> 05:45:28,390
roswell meister maybe the

8341
05:45:33,510 --> 05:45:30,160
group public relations officer and also

8342
05:45:35,270 --> 05:45:33,520
baseball equation officer

8343
05:45:36,788 --> 05:45:35,280
do you have any regrets having been

8344
05:45:39,590 --> 05:45:36,798
involved in this

8345
05:45:44,788 --> 05:45:41,430
fascinating

8346
05:45:48,150 --> 05:45:44,798
i mean so many different people uh

8347
05:45:50,708 --> 05:45:48,160
99 real nice blessed wow that one

8348
05:45:51,830 --> 05:45:50,718
percent always pops up

8349
05:45:53,590 --> 05:45:51,840
and

8350
05:45:55,350 --> 05:45:53,600
squares you away

8351
05:45:57,270 --> 05:45:55,360
a lot of you're married wait it's been

8352
05:45:58,470 --> 05:45:57,280
fun

8353
05:45:59,910 --> 05:45:58,480
in your

8354
05:46:01,830 --> 05:45:59,920
heart of hearts what do you think it was

8355
05:46:07,990 --> 05:46:01,840
that the

8356
05:46:16,310 --> 05:46:10,948
some type of craft from outer space

8357
05:46:22,310 --> 05:46:20,390
i talked to enough people uh

8358
05:46:24,070 --> 05:46:22,320
involved in it

8359
05:46:25,350 --> 05:46:24,080
i talked about

8360
05:46:27,990 --> 05:46:25,360
jesse

8361
05:46:29,350 --> 05:46:28,000
marcel senior and junior

8362
05:46:35,190 --> 05:46:29,360
uh

8363
05:46:35,200 --> 05:46:38,868
roswell

8364
05:46:42,470 --> 05:46:40,868
everything i've heard from the

8365
05:46:46,390 --> 05:46:42,480
investigators

8366
05:46:47,270 --> 05:46:46,400
almost pretending something

8367
05:46:49,830 --> 05:46:47,280
wow

8368
05:46:50,788 --> 05:46:49,840
that really is a surprise that puts

8369
05:46:52,070 --> 05:46:50,798
another

8370
05:46:54,788 --> 05:46:52,080
uh

8371
05:46:57,830 --> 05:46:54,798
crown or star in the crown or whatever

8372
05:47:01,190 --> 05:46:57,840
you want to say about uh my feeling is

8373
05:47:03,030 --> 05:47:01,200
that there's been so much that has been

8374
05:47:05,910 --> 05:47:03,040
brought forward

8375
05:47:08,070 --> 05:47:05,920
by legitimate people

8376
05:47:09,430 --> 05:47:08,080
there have been something to it and

8377
05:47:11,190 --> 05:47:09,440
apparently that

8378
05:47:13,020 --> 05:47:11,200
wasn't something that

8379
05:47:17,350 --> 05:47:13,030
crash landed out there in

8380
05:47:22,628 --> 05:47:20,230
can i get you to express your

8381
05:47:24,628 --> 05:47:22,638
desire about what our government should

8382
05:47:27,430 --> 05:47:24,638
do about this this

8383
05:47:29,910 --> 05:47:27,440
point in history

8384
05:47:32,230 --> 05:47:29,920
well i very frankly i think that the

8385
05:47:35,110 --> 05:47:32,240
government want to take all files that

8386
05:47:40,548 --> 05:47:37,430
on the subject

8387
05:47:42,708 --> 05:47:40,558
and turn them over to a committee of

8388
05:47:44,628 --> 05:47:42,718
legitimate

8389
05:47:46,390 --> 05:47:44,638
ufologists

8390
05:47:50,948 --> 05:47:46,400
use of that word

8391
05:47:57,590 --> 05:47:55,590
one that i'm familiar with or a panel of

8392
05:47:59,190 --> 05:47:57,600
scientists who are

8393
05:48:00,628 --> 05:47:59,200
not negative

8394
05:48:03,110 --> 05:48:00,638
but will look at

8395
05:48:04,868 --> 05:48:03,120
all the information

8396
05:48:06,230 --> 05:48:04,878
with an open mind

8397
05:48:08,948 --> 05:48:06,240
and come up with

8398
05:48:12,310 --> 05:48:08,958
a conclusion

8399
05:48:15,510 --> 05:48:13,430
now

8400
05:48:17,590 --> 05:48:15,520
this is a censorship

8401
05:48:19,670 --> 05:48:17,600
pure symbol

8402
05:48:21,030 --> 05:48:19,680
i don't like it

8403
05:48:23,830 --> 05:48:21,040
we want

8404
05:48:25,670 --> 05:48:23,840
the right for people to walk the streets

8405
05:48:27,750 --> 05:48:25,680
with hackers and

8406
05:48:29,590 --> 05:48:27,760
protests i don't know what would happen

8407
05:48:30,948 --> 05:48:29,600
most people started walking around

8408
05:48:33,590 --> 05:48:30,958
depending on

8409
05:48:49,270 --> 05:48:33,600
the archives creating science we want

8410
05:48:49,280 --> 05:48:55,110
any uh

8411
05:48:57,830 --> 05:48:56,070
well

8412
05:48:59,670 --> 05:48:57,840
all my experiences

8413
05:49:02,628 --> 05:48:59,680
with this have been

8414
05:49:04,150 --> 05:49:02,638
extremely pleasant i met some of the

8415
05:49:07,910 --> 05:49:04,160
nicest people

8416
05:49:11,430 --> 05:49:07,920
i've only had one experience um

8417
05:49:14,390 --> 05:49:11,440
it was a telephone call from

8418
05:49:16,788 --> 05:49:14,400
fell called and when i came i was out

8419
05:49:28,708 --> 05:49:16,798
time i came home my wife said

8420
05:49:35,430 --> 05:49:31,190
a friend from my past

8421
05:49:39,910 --> 05:49:36,390
very

8422
05:49:43,430 --> 05:49:41,830
telling me that i was going to be in

8423
05:49:46,868 --> 05:49:43,440
trouble

8424
05:49:48,948 --> 05:49:46,878
i should forget this whole thing

8425
05:49:51,510 --> 05:49:48,958
totally all about how

8426
05:49:53,190 --> 05:49:51,520
materials were found they were put on

8427
05:49:57,190 --> 05:49:53,200
fright cars and

8428
05:50:00,150 --> 05:49:57,200
ship from one place to the next

8429
05:50:02,470 --> 05:50:00,160
my recollection of that is real good

8430
05:50:05,110 --> 05:50:02,480
primarily because it was a trying to

8431
05:50:08,548 --> 05:50:05,120
talk to this i'll keep a straight

8432
05:50:14,070 --> 05:50:08,558
face my wife kept walking

8433
05:50:19,350 --> 05:50:17,190
he told her

8434
05:50:21,750 --> 05:50:19,360
when she first talked to him that

8435
05:50:28,548 --> 05:50:24,390
he said something in fact what do you

8436
05:50:31,670 --> 05:50:28,558
think about the ufos

8437
05:50:35,110 --> 05:50:31,680
oh i think it's a lot of fun there's

8438
05:50:37,430 --> 05:50:35,120
nothing funny about it

8439
05:50:39,670 --> 05:50:37,440
got a really uh

8440
05:50:41,830 --> 05:50:39,680
kind of a crack

8441
05:50:44,948 --> 05:50:41,840
do you know what this was no

8442
05:50:46,788 --> 05:50:44,958
i tried everything i could trickle into

8443
05:50:48,310 --> 05:50:46,798
giving me some clue that i know him to

8444
05:50:49,990 --> 05:50:48,320
the face i know

8445
05:50:51,110 --> 05:50:50,000
from where

8446
05:50:52,868 --> 05:50:51,120
he just

8447
05:50:55,190 --> 05:50:52,878
didn't

8448
05:51:10,390 --> 05:50:55,200
stop and he kept on

8449
05:51:17,350 --> 05:51:13,510
everybody's been uh extremely gracious

8450
05:51:22,788 --> 05:51:20,310
knowledgeable people

8451
05:51:24,868 --> 05:51:22,798
while somebody gets someone who asks a

8452
05:51:27,830 --> 05:51:24,878
question that kind of throws you

8453
05:51:32,470 --> 05:51:30,390
i try to answer everything as honestly

8454
05:51:33,670 --> 05:51:32,480
as i can and i've had no problem with

8455
05:51:36,150 --> 05:51:33,680
anybody

8456
05:51:38,548 --> 05:51:36,160
i try to keep my stories straight

8457
05:51:41,270 --> 05:51:38,558
let me change that i try to keep my

8458
05:51:48,120 --> 05:51:41,280
story simple so that it'll be straight i

8459
05:51:59,030 --> 05:51:49,910
[Laughter]

8460
05:52:03,430 --> 05:52:01,510
we got over 50 years investigating this

8461
05:52:05,110 --> 05:52:03,440
stuff and a lot of people

8462
05:52:07,030 --> 05:52:05,120
my listeners might not be aware but if

8463
05:52:09,030 --> 05:52:07,040
you heard of roswell

8464
05:52:11,270 --> 05:52:09,040
it's largely

8465
05:52:13,670 --> 05:52:11,280
because of mr friedman

8466
05:52:15,750 --> 05:52:13,680
on the original civilian investigator

8467
05:52:17,670 --> 05:52:15,760
yeah absolutely and i think that whole

8468
05:52:19,590 --> 05:52:17,680
story would have just been swept under

8469
05:52:21,990 --> 05:52:19,600
the rug and somewhere in the secret

8470
05:52:23,430 --> 05:52:22,000
government there are people cursing at

8471
05:52:24,230 --> 05:52:23,440
you

8472
05:52:27,430 --> 05:52:24,240
well

8473
05:52:29,670 --> 05:52:27,440
probably more more than one place

8474
05:52:30,548 --> 05:52:29,680
because you really i mean uh

8475
05:52:32,708 --> 05:52:30,558
that

8476
05:52:35,110 --> 05:52:32,718
roswell's always been my favorite ufo

8477
05:52:36,470 --> 05:52:35,120
story because it's so many twists and

8478
05:52:38,390 --> 05:52:36,480
turns and

8479
05:52:40,868 --> 05:52:38,400
you know i was going to ask you did you

8480
05:52:43,430 --> 05:52:40,878
hear this new theory that these alien

8481
05:52:45,750 --> 05:52:43,440
bodies were some kind of japanese

8482
05:52:48,070 --> 05:52:45,760
captured soldiers that were experimented

8483
05:52:51,030 --> 05:52:48,080
on that people oh yeah that's been

8484
05:52:53,350 --> 05:52:51,040
around for years and

8485
05:52:56,230 --> 05:52:53,360
look one of the fanciest one is that

8486
05:52:57,990 --> 05:52:56,240
stalin worked with dr death joseph

8487
05:53:00,548 --> 05:52:58,000
mengele

8488
05:53:01,750 --> 05:53:00,558
and they had some physically

8489
05:53:05,270 --> 05:53:01,760
distressed

8490
05:53:07,110 --> 05:53:05,280
people put on board a craft and they

8491
05:53:08,868 --> 05:53:07,120
it crashed and they were trying to start

8492
05:53:10,470 --> 05:53:08,878
a panic like war of the worlds has

8493
05:53:12,708 --> 05:53:10,480
started to panic

8494
05:53:15,270 --> 05:53:12,718
and i hate to say that's a ridiculous

8495
05:53:17,510 --> 05:53:15,280
argument

8496
05:53:19,110 --> 05:53:17,520
for example the war the world's panic

8497
05:53:20,868 --> 05:53:19,120
that took place in new jersey right

8498
05:53:23,110 --> 05:53:20,878
across the river from you

8499
05:53:25,750 --> 05:53:23,120
and uh well new jersey is the most

8500
05:53:27,190 --> 05:53:25,760
densely populated state more people per

8501
05:53:28,788 --> 05:53:27,200
square mile

8502
05:53:30,948 --> 05:53:28,798
than any other state

8503
05:53:35,110 --> 05:53:30,958
and where the saucer crashed in new

8504
05:53:37,590 --> 05:53:35,120
mexico ain't no people damn it

8505
05:53:39,590 --> 05:53:37,600
yeah i mean that theory is just crazy i

8506
05:53:41,430 --> 05:53:39,600
heard somebody talk about it was asian

8507
05:53:42,708 --> 05:53:41,440
people from japan

8508
05:53:44,948 --> 05:53:42,718
oh yeah yeah

8509
05:53:47,030 --> 05:53:44,958
and uh you're one of the misconceptions

8510
05:53:50,070 --> 05:53:47,040
about roswell though i wanted to ask you

8511
05:53:52,150 --> 05:53:50,080
about is that people think it was a ufo

8512
05:53:55,110 --> 05:53:52,160
crash but don't you believe it was two

8513
05:53:56,788 --> 05:53:55,120
separate crash sites well okay

8514
05:53:59,990 --> 05:53:56,798
there was a crash

8515
05:54:01,670 --> 05:54:00,000
75 miles roughly north of roswell out in

8516
05:54:04,150 --> 05:54:01,680
the middle of nowhere near the little

8517
05:54:05,990 --> 05:54:04,160
town called corona

8518
05:54:08,310 --> 05:54:06,000
uh you know like the cigar like the

8519
05:54:09,190 --> 05:54:08,320
toyota corona

8520
05:54:10,628 --> 05:54:09,200
and

8521
05:54:13,270 --> 05:54:10,638
when there was a 50th anniversary

8522
05:54:15,430 --> 05:54:13,280
celebration of roswell in 97

8523
05:54:17,830 --> 05:54:15,440
they had a sign on the old theater in

8524
05:54:19,590 --> 05:54:17,840
corona

8525
05:54:21,510 --> 05:54:19,600
forget about roswell it all happened

8526
05:54:24,070 --> 05:54:21,520
here

8527
05:54:26,788 --> 05:54:24,080
so the debris field was near roswell but

8528
05:54:30,470 --> 05:54:26,798
that was but there was an almost intact

8529
05:54:34,150 --> 05:54:32,948
well the debris field was near corona

8530
05:54:38,070 --> 05:54:34,160
and there may have been a crew

8531
05:54:40,948 --> 05:54:38,080
compartment found in miles away

8532
05:54:43,030 --> 05:54:40,958
i think the reason i say that is because

8533
05:54:44,548 --> 05:54:43,040
in my first conversation with jesse

8534
05:54:46,070 --> 05:54:44,558
marcel

8535
05:54:48,310 --> 05:54:46,080
he was the major

8536
05:54:50,230 --> 05:54:48,320
with whom i first talked

8537
05:54:53,110 --> 05:54:50,240
and he was the intel had been the

8538
05:54:54,470 --> 05:54:53,120
intelligence officer at roswell people

8539
05:54:57,510 --> 05:54:54,480
forget to mention

8540
05:55:01,270 --> 05:54:57,520
roswell was the home of the 509 the only

8541
05:55:02,708 --> 05:55:01,280
atomic bombers in the entire world the

8542
05:55:05,270 --> 05:55:02,718
most elite

8543
05:55:07,270 --> 05:55:05,280
military group in the world and i say

8544
05:55:09,670 --> 05:55:07,280
that because they dropped the bombs on

8545
05:55:10,548 --> 05:55:09,680
hiroshima and nagasaki they dropped two

8546
05:55:12,470 --> 05:55:10,558
more

8547
05:55:13,830 --> 05:55:12,480
operation crossroads in the pacific the

8548
05:55:16,150 --> 05:55:13,840
next year

8549
05:55:17,670 --> 05:55:16,160
uh everybody had a high level security

8550
05:55:19,750 --> 05:55:17,680
clearance

8551
05:55:21,910 --> 05:55:19,760
it's a great they got a 13 000 foot

8552
05:55:24,628 --> 05:55:21,920
runway

8553
05:55:26,150 --> 05:55:24,638
and they are well it's the airport now

8554
05:55:27,190 --> 05:55:26,160
then it was the air base

8555
05:55:28,948 --> 05:55:27,200
uh

8556
05:55:32,628 --> 05:55:28,958
which is much longer than most places to

8557
05:55:34,788 --> 05:55:32,638
carry big b-36s with their a-bombs

8558
05:55:36,230 --> 05:55:34,798
needed a huge runway

8559
05:55:38,788 --> 05:55:36,240
uh

8560
05:55:42,150 --> 05:55:38,798
b-36 was i i used to watch him fly when

8561
05:55:45,190 --> 05:55:42,160
i was in industry and down in texas and

8562
05:55:47,030 --> 05:55:45,200
big old monster okay

8563
05:55:49,270 --> 05:55:47,040
anyway roswell

8564
05:55:51,990 --> 05:55:49,280
there was another crash over

8565
05:55:54,230 --> 05:55:52,000
in the plains of san agustin

8566
05:55:55,590 --> 05:55:54,240
and when i first talked to jesse marcel

8567
05:55:56,948 --> 05:55:55,600
and i got to him

8568
05:55:58,628 --> 05:55:56,958
strictly

8569
05:56:01,670 --> 05:55:58,638
out of the blue again

8570
05:56:03,830 --> 05:56:01,680
i was doing a television interview

8571
05:56:07,030 --> 05:56:03,840
in baton rouge louisiana before speaking

8572
05:56:09,190 --> 05:56:07,040
that night at louisiana state university

8573
05:56:09,910 --> 05:56:09,200
supposed to do three interviews

8574
05:56:11,510 --> 05:56:09,920
and

8575
05:56:12,470 --> 05:56:11,520
people from the university brought me to

8576
05:56:20,150 --> 05:56:12,480
the

8577
05:56:21,190 --> 05:56:20,160
me coffee he's looking at his watch he

8578
05:56:22,390 --> 05:56:21,200
didn't want to lose the interview

8579
05:56:24,548 --> 05:56:22,400
because he had his schedule in his

8580
05:56:25,350 --> 05:56:24,558
programming but

8581
05:56:33,990 --> 05:56:25,360
he

8582
05:56:35,110 --> 05:56:34,000
talk to is jesse marcel

8583
05:56:36,948 --> 05:56:35,120
who's he

8584
05:56:37,830 --> 05:56:36,958
a brilliant investigator that i am you

8585
05:56:40,230 --> 05:56:37,840
know

8586
05:56:41,590 --> 05:56:40,240
and his next sentence changed my life he

8587
05:56:42,948 --> 05:56:41,600
handled wreckage of one of those

8588
05:56:45,270 --> 05:56:42,958
sausages you're interested in when he

8589
05:56:46,708 --> 05:56:45,280
was in the military what

8590
05:56:48,150 --> 05:56:46,718
what do you know about him he lives in

8591
05:56:49,990 --> 05:56:48,160
houma that didn't tell me anything

8592
05:56:51,590 --> 05:56:50,000
because they didn't know where homer was

8593
05:56:53,590 --> 05:56:51,600
because i've been there since to talk to

8594
05:56:55,190 --> 05:56:53,600
jesse as a matter of fact

8595
05:56:57,030 --> 05:56:55,200
yeah he's a great guy we're old ham

8596
05:56:58,868 --> 05:56:57,040
radio buddies

8597
05:57:00,230 --> 05:56:58,878
you ought to talk to him so the next day

8598
05:57:02,310 --> 05:57:00,240
we had a great response at the

8599
05:57:04,070 --> 05:57:02,320
university that night the next morning

8600
05:57:05,830 --> 05:57:04,080
i'm at the airport early

8601
05:57:09,110 --> 05:57:05,840
got a plane to catch i thought i'd call

8602
05:57:10,708 --> 05:57:09,120
information in homo wherever it was

8603
05:57:13,430 --> 05:57:10,718
and they had a number for a jesse a

8604
05:57:14,470 --> 05:57:13,440
marcel okay i called him

8605
05:57:16,868 --> 05:57:14,480
and

8606
05:57:18,948 --> 05:57:16,878
this is before the internet you know

8607
05:57:22,548 --> 05:57:18,958
times were different than

8608
05:57:24,628 --> 05:57:22,558
1978 uh you know no internet

8609
05:57:26,390 --> 05:57:24,638
and uh he told me a story and people say

8610
05:57:28,548 --> 05:57:26,400
well why would he talk to you i thought

8611
05:57:30,948 --> 05:57:28,558
it was all highly classified his picture

8612
05:57:33,030 --> 05:57:30,958
was in the newspapers i found that out

8613
05:57:34,150 --> 05:57:33,040
later i didn't know it then

8614
05:57:35,910 --> 05:57:34,160
uh

8615
05:57:37,590 --> 05:57:35,920
his picture was taken in the office of

8616
05:57:39,830 --> 05:57:37,600
general raymie who was head of the

8617
05:57:42,390 --> 05:57:39,840
eighth air force of which the 509th was

8618
05:57:43,910 --> 05:57:42,400
apart and he told me a story and one of

8619
05:57:45,590 --> 05:57:43,920
the first things he said was there was

8620
05:57:47,590 --> 05:57:45,600
so much wreckage out there spread out

8621
05:57:49,270 --> 05:57:47,600
over such a large area

8622
05:57:51,910 --> 05:57:49,280
that he figured there had to be a

8623
05:57:53,270 --> 05:57:51,920
mid-air explosion

8624
05:57:54,868 --> 05:57:53,280
because

8625
05:57:56,788 --> 05:57:54,878
there was too much stuff and it was

8626
05:57:58,230 --> 05:57:56,798
spread out over too large an area

8627
05:57:59,830 --> 05:57:58,240
there's nothing conventional out there

8628
05:58:01,030 --> 05:57:59,840
you've seen here playing crashes in the

8629
05:58:02,948 --> 05:58:01,040
pacific

8630
05:58:04,708 --> 05:58:02,958
and there's a mess that's what i always

8631
05:58:07,750 --> 05:58:04,718
thought when people talk about well it

8632
05:58:10,628 --> 05:58:07,760
was just a weather balloon

8633
05:58:14,310 --> 05:58:10,638
about the 509 there's like these guys

8634
05:58:15,670 --> 05:58:14,320
were around nuclear weapons and and uh i

8635
05:58:17,910 --> 05:58:15,680
think they would know the difference

8636
05:58:20,628 --> 05:58:17,920
between a weather balloon and an alien

8637
05:58:23,350 --> 05:58:20,638
spacecraft or you know well jesse had

8638
05:58:25,590 --> 05:58:23,360
taken he had taken a course

8639
05:58:28,788 --> 05:58:25,600
on radar and weather balloons and all

8640
05:58:31,590 --> 05:58:28,798
this he had to brief the airplanes

8641
05:58:33,350 --> 05:58:31,600
when they went out on

8642
05:58:36,708 --> 05:58:33,360
planned missions

8643
05:58:39,350 --> 05:58:36,718
you know send a bunch of airplanes up to

8644
05:58:42,390 --> 05:58:39,360
new york a pseudo attack on new york if

8645
05:58:43,670 --> 05:58:42,400
you will so he was very familiar and the

8646
05:58:46,310 --> 05:58:43,680
weather balloons were launched every

8647
05:58:47,590 --> 05:58:46,320
single day at the base

8648
05:58:49,510 --> 05:58:47,600
because you want to know which way the

8649
05:58:50,868 --> 05:58:49,520
winds blow you know and how strong it is

8650
05:58:52,230 --> 05:58:50,878
at altitude

8651
05:58:53,910 --> 05:58:52,240
you can't tell a lot from the ground

8652
05:58:55,830 --> 05:58:53,920
you've got to send up a balloon and it

8653
05:58:57,350 --> 05:58:55,840
radios back information

8654
05:58:59,030 --> 05:58:57,360
so jesse was very familiar with the

8655
05:59:00,548 --> 05:58:59,040
weather remember there were four

8656
05:59:03,190 --> 05:59:00,558
explanations

8657
05:59:04,868 --> 05:59:03,200
the first in the newspapers on july 8

8658
05:59:07,430 --> 05:59:04,878
1947

8659
05:59:10,390 --> 05:59:07,440
army captures flying saucer on ranch in

8660
05:59:13,830 --> 05:59:10,400
roswell region that was in newspapers

8661
05:59:15,430 --> 05:59:13,840
evening papers from chicago west

8662
05:59:17,350 --> 05:59:15,440
the press release went out too late to

8663
05:59:19,830 --> 05:59:17,360
make the east coast papers

8664
05:59:22,948 --> 05:59:19,840
the next day remy empties roswell's

8665
05:59:24,070 --> 05:59:22,958
zoster saucer

8666
05:59:25,110 --> 05:59:24,080
so

8667
05:59:28,470 --> 05:59:25,120
the

8668
05:59:30,390 --> 05:59:28,480
flying saucer

8669
05:59:32,948 --> 05:59:30,400
then it was weather balloon radar

8670
05:59:35,590 --> 05:59:32,958
reflector combination

8671
05:59:37,430 --> 05:59:35,600
and then we had the

8672
05:59:38,788 --> 05:59:37,440
mogul balloons

8673
05:59:42,390 --> 05:59:38,798
now these were

8674
05:59:44,628 --> 05:59:42,400
20 to 25 standard normal neoprene

8675
05:59:47,430 --> 05:59:44,638
weather balloons at 20 foot intervals

8676
05:59:49,910 --> 05:59:47,440
record twine tying them together they

8677
05:59:52,470 --> 05:59:49,920
were supposed to be a constant altitude

8678
05:59:55,030 --> 05:59:52,480
instrument platform they were trying to

8679
05:59:56,470 --> 05:59:55,040
see if they could hear a soviet nuclear

8680
05:59:58,868 --> 05:59:56,480
explosion because they didn't know when

8681
06:00:01,830 --> 05:59:58,878
the soviets would go nuclear

8682
06:00:05,670 --> 06:00:01,840
and it wasn't a very good idea so they

8683
06:00:08,470 --> 06:00:05,680
would stay aloft for thousands of miles

8684
06:00:11,110 --> 06:00:08,480
and they had found that underwater you

8685
06:00:12,788 --> 06:00:11,120
can hear sounds over very long distances

8686
06:00:13,910 --> 06:00:12,798
later the water through which sound

8687
06:00:14,788 --> 06:00:13,920
travels

8688
06:00:16,070 --> 06:00:14,798
better

8689
06:00:18,628 --> 06:00:16,080
if you will

8690
06:00:20,548 --> 06:00:18,638
but the fourth explanation

8691
06:00:22,230 --> 06:00:20,558
the mogul balloon explanation sounds

8692
06:00:23,750 --> 06:00:22,240
good we were testing muggle balloons in

8693
06:00:25,510 --> 06:00:23,760
new mexico

8694
06:00:27,190 --> 06:00:25,520
uh the only trouble was people have

8695
06:00:28,628 --> 06:00:27,200
looked very carefully at the logs of

8696
06:00:31,030 --> 06:00:28,638
those who were launching the balloons

8697
06:00:33,510 --> 06:00:31,040
they said high security the purpose was

8698
06:00:35,510 --> 06:00:33,520
classified not the technology they were

8699
06:00:37,350 --> 06:00:35,520
not accompanied by chase planes or

8700
06:00:40,548 --> 06:00:37,360
anything like that to recover this

8701
06:00:41,590 --> 06:00:40,558
exotic technology it wasn't exotic

8702
06:00:43,590 --> 06:00:41,600
uh

8703
06:00:44,868 --> 06:00:43,600
the fourth explanation was my favorite

8704
06:00:46,470 --> 06:00:44,878
though

8705
06:00:49,190 --> 06:00:46,480
they wrote a the air force wrote a big

8706
06:00:52,230 --> 06:00:49,200
report the roswell report truth versus

8707
06:00:53,950 --> 06:00:52,240
fiction in the new mexico desert the air

8708
06:00:55,430 --> 06:00:53,960
force applied the fiction

8709
06:00:58,230 --> 06:00:55,440
[Applause]

8710
06:00:59,750 --> 06:00:58,240
well the the fourth explanation they

8711
06:01:01,750 --> 06:00:59,760
said they weren't going to say anymore

8712
06:01:03,510 --> 06:01:01,760
but they wrote another report

8713
06:01:05,750 --> 06:01:03,520
now they had discovered that we were

8714
06:01:09,110 --> 06:01:05,760
launching crash test dummies all over

8715
06:01:10,868 --> 06:01:09,120
new mexico so stories about bodies

8716
06:01:13,430 --> 06:01:10,878
crash test dummies and they use the same

8717
06:01:14,868 --> 06:01:13,440
map of where they dropped all these

8718
06:01:17,270 --> 06:01:14,878
dummies

8719
06:01:19,190 --> 06:01:17,280
i should explain the reason for that was

8720
06:01:21,350 --> 06:01:19,200
airplanes were flying much higher than

8721
06:01:23,030 --> 06:01:21,360
they'd ever flown before

8722
06:01:25,110 --> 06:01:23,040
and if you were on board an airplane at

8723
06:01:28,788 --> 06:01:25,120
40 000 feet

8724
06:01:31,110 --> 06:01:28,798
and you had to eject

8725
06:01:32,470 --> 06:01:31,120
you wanted to make the ejection safe in

8726
06:01:34,548 --> 06:01:32,480
the first place

8727
06:01:36,708 --> 06:01:34,558
because you had to find out

8728
06:01:38,788 --> 06:01:36,718
how long does it take before you come

8729
06:01:40,788 --> 06:01:38,798
down where the temperature is reasonable

8730
06:01:43,030 --> 06:01:40,798
if it freeze to death you know at 40 000

8731
06:01:44,230 --> 06:01:43,040
feet it's very very cold up there

8732
06:01:45,750 --> 06:01:44,240
and you certainly aren't going to use

8733
06:01:48,788 --> 06:01:45,760
pilots on these

8734
06:01:50,310 --> 06:01:48,798
ejection seats

8735
06:01:53,670 --> 06:01:50,320
and the

8736
06:01:57,190 --> 06:01:53,680
bodies were dummies i found

8737
06:02:00,070 --> 06:01:57,200
the air force officer

8738
06:02:01,590 --> 06:02:00,080
colonel madsen he's dead now

8739
06:02:03,430 --> 06:02:01,600
who had been in charge of the program

8740
06:02:04,868 --> 06:02:03,440
his picture as an air force report they

8741
06:02:06,470 --> 06:02:04,878
didn't talk to him

8742
06:02:07,430 --> 06:02:06,480
they went back and looked at the old

8743
06:02:08,150 --> 06:02:07,440
records

8744
06:02:10,390 --> 06:02:08,160
he

8745
06:02:11,350 --> 06:02:10,400
made sure that i understood a couple of

8746
06:02:14,030 --> 06:02:11,360
things

8747
06:02:16,548 --> 06:02:14,040
one the dummies were six feet tall and

8748
06:02:20,150 --> 06:02:16,558
175 pounds

8749
06:02:22,230 --> 06:02:20,160
and they were in air force flight gear

8750
06:02:24,150 --> 06:02:22,240
you see why would you do that because

8751
06:02:26,548 --> 06:02:24,160
that affects the drag and the heating of

8752
06:02:28,548 --> 06:02:26,558
the body as it comes down

8753
06:02:30,070 --> 06:02:28,558
you want to measure that

8754
06:02:31,830 --> 06:02:30,080
and you can't do it

8755
06:02:33,990 --> 06:02:31,840
you know without a dummy that isn't

8756
06:02:35,750 --> 06:02:34,000
properly pressed if you will now these

8757
06:02:38,948 --> 06:02:35,760
were wooden dummies and often when they

8758
06:02:40,868 --> 06:02:38,958
hit the ground the limbs came off

8759
06:02:43,830 --> 06:02:40,878
and they didn't look anything at all

8760
06:02:45,910 --> 06:02:43,840
like a small big headed alien yeah i

8761
06:02:48,390 --> 06:02:45,920
always thought that was funny like okay

8762
06:02:58,310 --> 06:02:48,400
it was funny did you use four foot tall

8763
06:03:01,990 --> 06:03:00,310
wasn't there a time discrepancy too like

8764
06:03:04,070 --> 06:03:02,000
these dummy tests well none of the oh

8765
06:03:05,990 --> 06:03:04,080
yeah a minor detail

8766
06:03:07,990 --> 06:03:06,000
yeah none of these were launched until

8767
06:03:10,230 --> 06:03:08,000
53 years later

8768
06:03:13,110 --> 06:03:10,240
so what six years between friends i mean

8769
06:03:14,548 --> 06:03:13,120
come on you know slight time lag

8770
06:03:16,948 --> 06:03:14,558
time war

8771
06:03:19,110 --> 06:03:16,958
time travel for crash test dummies the

8772
06:03:21,910 --> 06:03:19,120
new technology

8773
06:03:23,430 --> 06:03:21,920
it you know what what's crazy is

8774
06:03:25,670 --> 06:03:23,440
that explanation appeared on the front

8775
06:03:27,270 --> 06:03:25,680
page in new york times

8776
06:03:29,270 --> 06:03:27,280
and all i can say is that at the

8777
06:03:31,750 --> 06:03:29,280
beginning of world war ii

8778
06:03:33,670 --> 06:03:31,760
within two weeks of pearl harbor

8779
06:03:35,910 --> 06:03:33,680
there was a director of censorship

8780
06:03:37,750 --> 06:03:35,920
established

8781
06:03:40,390 --> 06:03:37,760
and for example the newspapers couldn't

8782
06:03:42,470 --> 06:03:40,400
use the word uranium any place

8783
06:03:43,990 --> 06:03:42,480
they couldn't use fugal balloon the

8784
06:03:46,628 --> 06:03:44,000
japanese were launching these big

8785
06:03:48,310 --> 06:03:46,638
balloons with explosives on board

8786
06:03:49,350 --> 06:03:48,320
from out in the pacific and the winds

8787
06:03:50,708 --> 06:03:49,360
blow them

8788
06:03:52,470 --> 06:03:50,718
and they're going to start fires all

8789
06:03:55,190 --> 06:03:52,480
over the united states

8790
06:03:56,708 --> 06:03:55,200
and there were a few started not many

8791
06:03:58,470 --> 06:03:56,718
but you couldn't talk about that we

8792
06:04:01,830 --> 06:03:58,480
didn't want them to know how successful

8793
06:04:04,070 --> 06:04:01,840
or unsuccessful those balloon launchers

8794
06:04:05,590 --> 06:04:04,080
one person did die there was

8795
06:04:06,868 --> 06:04:05,600
somebody i've read about that it's

8796
06:04:08,708 --> 06:04:06,878
amazing that

8797
06:04:10,070 --> 06:04:08,718
the government's response was to just

8798
06:04:12,230 --> 06:04:10,080
not talk about it they didn't want the

8799
06:04:14,788 --> 06:04:12,240
japanese to know that they were at all

8800
06:04:17,830 --> 06:04:14,798
successful so they would do yeah

8801
06:04:20,548 --> 06:04:18,708
so

8802
06:04:22,150 --> 06:04:20,558
you know what i'm saying is

8803
06:04:23,110 --> 06:04:22,160
it looks as if

8804
06:04:25,430 --> 06:04:23,120
uh

8805
06:04:28,310 --> 06:04:25,440
the air force had a

8806
06:04:30,390 --> 06:04:28,320
policy of not releasing information

8807
06:04:31,350 --> 06:04:30,400
that's no surprise

8808
06:04:33,030 --> 06:04:31,360
uh

8809
06:04:34,948 --> 06:04:33,040
and that's why i mentioned that air

8810
06:04:36,868 --> 06:04:34,958
force press release about blue book

8811
06:04:39,110 --> 06:04:36,878
special report 14.

8812
06:04:42,628 --> 06:04:39,120
it set the tone when you have your top

8813
06:04:45,510 --> 06:04:42,638
official in the air force flat out lying

8814
06:04:48,548 --> 06:04:45,520
and then when i tried to get more from

8815
06:04:52,548 --> 06:04:48,558
uh colonel weaver who wrote that big fat

8816
06:04:55,510 --> 06:04:52,558
report he attacked the mj-12 documents

8817
06:04:56,310 --> 06:04:55,520
you mentioned those uh he wrote bogus on

8818
06:04:59,110 --> 06:04:56,320
them

8819
06:04:59,830 --> 06:04:59,120
and when he was asked by the fbi

8820
06:05:01,910 --> 06:04:59,840
the

8821
06:05:03,510 --> 06:05:01,920
uh fbi was worried about his classified

8822
06:05:04,708 --> 06:05:03,520
information being leaked here what's

8823
06:05:07,750 --> 06:05:04,718
going on

8824
06:05:09,830 --> 06:05:07,760
and he wrote bogus on every page of the

8825
06:05:13,350 --> 06:05:09,840
documents

8826
06:05:15,190 --> 06:05:13,360
and the airport of the fbi bought it

8827
06:05:17,830 --> 06:05:15,200
i filed a freedom of information act

8828
06:05:19,590 --> 06:05:17,840
request for all the information notes

8829
06:05:21,190 --> 06:05:19,600
memos and blah blah blah you know you

8830
06:05:25,030 --> 06:05:21,200
got to write in

8831
06:05:29,350 --> 06:05:27,190
and i wanted any information to back up

8832
06:05:30,390 --> 06:05:29,360
this conclusion that

8833
06:05:32,470 --> 06:05:30,400
uh

8834
06:05:34,310 --> 06:05:32,480
this this was

8835
06:05:36,548 --> 06:05:34,320
phony in other words that these

8836
06:05:38,788 --> 06:05:36,558
documents were funny we have nothing in

8837
06:05:40,790 --> 06:05:38,798
response to your request

8838
06:05:42,150 --> 06:05:40,800
very useful

8839
06:05:44,868 --> 06:05:42,160
[Applause]

8840
06:05:46,070 --> 06:05:44,878
you know it's crazy you can get away

8841
06:05:47,430 --> 06:05:46,080
with it

8842
06:05:49,030 --> 06:05:47,440
uh

8843
06:05:51,590 --> 06:05:49,040
if you work at it

8844
06:05:53,990 --> 06:05:51,600
secrets can be kept and look i'm not

8845
06:05:55,990 --> 06:05:54,000
saying the government should never lie

8846
06:05:58,390 --> 06:05:56,000
which may sound a little strange but

8847
06:06:02,150 --> 06:05:58,400
when we tested our first avon

8848
06:06:04,548 --> 06:06:02,160
at trinity site in new mexico in 1945

8849
06:06:05,270 --> 06:06:04,558
was that was an earthquake or something

8850
06:06:06,470 --> 06:06:05,280
no

8851
06:06:08,548 --> 06:06:06,480
it was

8852
06:06:09,430 --> 06:06:08,558
uh

8853
06:06:10,150 --> 06:06:09,440
the

8854
06:06:12,788 --> 06:06:10,160
uh

8855
06:06:14,708 --> 06:06:12,798
explained it away as an ammunition dump

8856
06:06:16,390 --> 06:06:14,718
had flown out that's right yeah i've

8857
06:06:18,788 --> 06:06:16,400
heard that people have seen it from a

8858
06:06:21,110 --> 06:06:18,798
hundred miles away the skies are clear

8859
06:06:24,628 --> 06:06:21,120
in new mexico and it was one hell of a

8860
06:06:28,788 --> 06:06:26,548
and they got away with it and i don't

8861
06:06:30,548 --> 06:06:28,798
blame them for doing that

8862
06:06:32,310 --> 06:06:30,558
uh certainly

8863
06:06:34,708 --> 06:06:32,320
the government was very worried about if

8864
06:06:36,628 --> 06:06:34,718
the japanese found out what was going on

8865
06:06:37,910 --> 06:06:36,638
and what cities were going to be bombed

8866
06:06:39,910 --> 06:06:37,920
if any

8867
06:06:42,390 --> 06:06:39,920
uh they would move american prisoners of

8868
06:06:45,350 --> 06:06:42,400
war to those cities

8869
06:06:48,390 --> 06:06:45,360
yeah i agree with you that in some cases

8870
06:06:49,110 --> 06:06:48,400
sure it's it's okay to keep secrets but

8871
06:06:52,310 --> 06:06:49,120
if

8872
06:06:54,548 --> 06:06:52,320
really happened the way so many

8873
06:06:56,708 --> 06:06:54,558
witnesses recall it

8874
06:06:58,788 --> 06:06:56,718
it's the most significant event in human

8875
06:07:01,510 --> 06:06:58,798
history it confirms that we are not

8876
06:07:03,270 --> 06:07:01,520
alone in the universe yes and i don't

8877
06:07:04,948 --> 06:07:03,280
believe that anybody has the right to

8878
06:07:06,948 --> 06:07:04,958
keep that from us that's what keeps me

8879
06:07:09,430 --> 06:07:06,958
interested in this and keep digging i

8880
06:07:11,510 --> 06:07:09,440
keep digging and digging and digging

8881
06:07:14,070 --> 06:07:11,520
unfortunately you gotta dig through so

8882
06:07:16,390 --> 06:07:14,080
much garbage to get to any real

8883
06:07:18,948 --> 06:07:16,400
you notice that huh yeah

8884
06:07:21,190 --> 06:07:18,958
mr friedman i want to take the time to

8885
06:07:23,430 --> 06:07:21,200
thank you immensely from the bottom of

8886
06:07:25,270 --> 06:07:23,440
my heart for taking the time to talk to

8887
06:07:27,270 --> 06:07:25,280
us tonight

8888
06:07:29,270 --> 06:07:27,280
it's been an immense pleasure and

8889
06:07:31,350 --> 06:07:29,280
delight to talk to you

8890
06:07:33,030 --> 06:07:31,360
and learn more about this incredible

8891
06:07:35,110 --> 06:07:33,040
subject

8892
06:07:37,910 --> 06:07:35,120
i want to wish you the best

8893
06:07:39,750 --> 06:07:37,920
on your continued journey to find the

8894
06:07:41,190 --> 06:07:39,760
truth

8895
06:07:43,270 --> 06:07:41,200
it's it's good to talk to somebody you

8896
06:08:05,030 --> 06:07:43,280
know something about the subject

8897
06:08:11,030 --> 06:08:07,750
greetings and salutations and thank you

8898
06:08:13,590 --> 06:08:11,040
for being here for the 75th roswell

8899
06:08:14,708 --> 06:08:13,600
anniversary truth seeker special deep

8900
06:08:16,230 --> 06:08:14,718
dive

8901
06:08:17,830 --> 06:08:16,240
if you're new to the channel please be

8902
06:08:20,390 --> 06:08:17,840
sure to subscribe and hit that

8903
06:08:22,390 --> 06:08:20,400
notification bell so you too will know

8904
06:08:24,788 --> 06:08:22,400
about future special events you can

8905
06:08:27,110 --> 06:08:24,798
attend here i wanted to take a moment to

8906
06:08:29,270 --> 06:08:27,120
thank all of our kind and generous

8907
06:08:32,230 --> 06:08:29,280
benefactors because people all over the

8908
06:08:35,110 --> 06:08:32,240
world send a few bucks in in pledges

8909
06:08:37,430 --> 06:08:35,120
either through paypal or through the

8910
06:08:40,150 --> 06:08:37,440
super chat down there in the live chat

8911
06:08:43,510 --> 06:08:40,160
the money button super stickers

8912
06:08:45,190 --> 06:08:43,520
we have and take cash at pledges as well

8913
06:08:47,350 --> 06:08:45,200
i want to thank everybody who has signed

8914
06:08:49,110 --> 06:08:47,360
up to be a patreon member because for as

8915
06:08:51,830 --> 06:08:49,120
little as a dollar a month you can get

8916
06:08:54,070 --> 06:08:51,840
some extra content from us here

8917
06:08:56,948 --> 06:08:54,080
additionally i'd like to thank the

8918
06:08:59,030 --> 06:08:56,958
channel members who get a bunch of

8919
06:09:01,270 --> 06:08:59,040
youtube benefits as well as all the

8920
06:09:02,708 --> 06:09:01,280
patreon benefits for as little as five

8921
06:09:05,670 --> 06:09:02,718
dollars a month

8922
06:09:07,430 --> 06:09:05,680
i also wanted to mention uh that i have

8923
06:09:12,230 --> 06:09:07,440
uh something

8924
06:09:15,110 --> 06:09:12,240
strange for my friends these are roswell

8925
06:09:17,430 --> 06:09:15,120
wreckage replicas

8926
06:09:19,990 --> 06:09:17,440
which i have been making here i also

8927
06:09:23,030 --> 06:09:20,000
wanted to mention that for today's

8928
06:09:25,830 --> 06:09:23,040
special event we have prizes for those

8929
06:09:28,548 --> 06:09:25,840
of you pledging thirty dollars or more

8930
06:09:29,430 --> 06:09:28,558
either through cash app paypal or super

8931
06:09:30,548 --> 06:09:29,440
chat

8932
06:09:32,150 --> 06:09:30,558
uh and

8933
06:09:34,070 --> 06:09:32,160
this is a

8934
06:09:36,470 --> 06:09:34,080
gift that we will be sending everybody

8935
06:09:40,150 --> 06:09:36,480
who pledges thirty dollars or more this

8936
06:09:43,030 --> 06:09:40,160
is a roswell debris replica

8937
06:09:47,110 --> 06:09:43,040
and it's designed to look exactly as

8938
06:09:50,310 --> 06:09:47,120
jesse marcel and his son had described

8939
06:09:51,590 --> 06:09:50,320
this is the so-called ib

8940
06:09:54,868 --> 06:09:51,600
wreckage

8941
06:09:57,350 --> 06:09:54,878
uh this is a replica of course uh and

8942
06:10:00,230 --> 06:09:57,360
i'm happy that i'll be able to offer

8943
06:10:01,510 --> 06:10:00,240
these to anybody pledging thirty dollars

8944
06:10:03,750 --> 06:10:01,520
or more

8945
06:10:05,590 --> 06:10:03,760
to our show today this is a just a

8946
06:10:07,830 --> 06:10:05,600
special free gift that we're going to be

8947
06:10:10,070 --> 06:10:07,840
giving you kind and generous people for

8948
06:10:16,600 --> 06:10:10,080
supporting our show

8949
06:11:42,708 --> 06:10:45,430
[Music]

8950
06:11:42,718 --> 06:11:48,220
so

8951
06:12:21,430 --> 06:11:55,760
[Music]

8952
06:12:25,670 --> 06:12:23,990
greetings and salutations friends and

8953
06:12:28,948 --> 06:12:25,680
welcome back

8954
06:12:31,510 --> 06:12:28,958
we tonight are going to finish a

8955
06:12:34,470 --> 06:12:31,520
long-standing research project of mine

8956
06:12:37,030 --> 06:12:34,480
for those unaware some time ago

8957
06:12:39,670 --> 06:12:37,040
i began to gather the world's leading

8958
06:12:41,910 --> 06:12:39,680
experts authors and researchers into

8959
06:12:44,390 --> 06:12:41,920
what i believe is one of the greatest

8960
06:12:46,390 --> 06:12:44,400
mysteries on planet earth and that is

8961
06:12:49,190 --> 06:12:46,400
the roswell mysteries

8962
06:12:52,390 --> 06:12:49,200
mystery we are coming up right now on

8963
06:12:54,548 --> 06:12:52,400
the 75th anniversary in july of the

8964
06:12:57,510 --> 06:12:54,558
roswell event

8965
06:12:59,270 --> 06:12:57,520
ahead of that anniversary i thought

8966
06:13:01,830 --> 06:12:59,280
i would gather all of the world's

8967
06:13:03,350 --> 06:13:01,840
leading experts authors researchers

8968
06:13:06,150 --> 06:13:03,360
people who have really spent a great

8969
06:13:07,430 --> 06:13:06,160
deal of time investigating the roswell

8970
06:13:14,390 --> 06:13:07,440
mystery

8971
06:13:17,190 --> 06:13:14,400
and it is one of the greatest mysteries

8972
06:13:19,830 --> 06:13:17,200
on earth there is so much information to

8973
06:13:22,230 --> 06:13:19,840
digest before you make up your mind and

8974
06:13:23,830 --> 06:13:22,240
i thought i would bring together all the

8975
06:13:26,070 --> 06:13:23,840
world's leading experts authors and

8976
06:13:28,070 --> 06:13:26,080
researchers and then on the 75th

8977
06:13:30,628 --> 06:13:28,080
anniversary for those underwear we are

8978
06:13:32,788 --> 06:13:30,638
going to broadcast the entire series in

8979
06:13:34,390 --> 06:13:32,798
its entirety every

8980
06:13:36,390 --> 06:13:34,400
author researcher that i have

8981
06:13:38,470 --> 06:13:36,400
interviewed every bit of roswell

8982
06:13:39,750 --> 06:13:38,480
information that i can pack into that

8983
06:13:42,150 --> 06:13:39,760
deep dive

8984
06:13:44,708 --> 06:13:42,160
will be broadcast on the 75th

8985
06:13:46,548 --> 06:13:44,718
anniversary of roswell now there's one

8986
06:13:48,470 --> 06:13:46,558
person on my list that i have never been

8987
06:13:52,150 --> 06:13:48,480
able to get to he's one of my favorite

8988
06:13:55,670 --> 06:13:52,160
researchers he's a an author a ufo an

8989
06:13:57,830 --> 06:13:55,680
aircraft historian lecturer and more

8990
06:13:59,910 --> 06:13:57,840
but i knew that he had some additional

8991
06:14:01,750 --> 06:13:59,920
information maybe information that none

8992
06:14:04,230 --> 06:14:01,760
of us have heard before

8993
06:14:05,910 --> 06:14:04,240
and i have never heard him speak i've

8994
06:14:08,788 --> 06:14:05,920
heard him speak about roswell but it's

8995
06:14:10,868 --> 06:14:08,798
usually part of a larger interview you

8996
06:14:12,310 --> 06:14:10,878
know he'll he'll discuss roswell for 20

8997
06:14:13,270 --> 06:14:12,320
minutes and then move on to another

8998
06:14:16,150 --> 06:14:13,280
topic

8999
06:14:18,310 --> 06:14:16,160
so tonight we have michael schratt one

9000
06:14:19,990 --> 06:14:18,320
of my favorite researchers here to help

9001
06:14:22,470 --> 06:14:20,000
us wrap up

9002
06:14:25,190 --> 06:14:22,480
uh this incredible series let's bring

9003
06:14:27,270 --> 06:14:25,200
him in here michael schratt welcome hi

9004
06:14:30,070 --> 06:14:27,280
stephen how are you doing the rock star

9005
06:14:30,948 --> 06:14:30,080
of you followed me michael schratt

9006
06:14:32,868 --> 06:14:30,958
yeah

9007
06:14:34,948 --> 06:14:32,878
good to have you here and and i want to

9008
06:14:37,030 --> 06:14:34,958
thank you personally i've reached out to

9009
06:14:39,430 --> 06:14:37,040
michael and i said i can't

9010
06:14:41,670 --> 06:14:39,440
in good conscience i can't finish this

9011
06:14:44,310 --> 06:14:41,680
series without including michael's

9012
06:14:46,230 --> 06:14:44,320
thoughts on roswell and really digging

9013
06:14:49,110 --> 06:14:46,240
you know i want to dig into his brain on

9014
06:14:51,590 --> 06:14:49,120
this thing and see what he thinks so

9015
06:14:53,830 --> 06:14:51,600
michael what what do you think let's

9016
06:14:56,390 --> 06:14:53,840
start there well stephen thank you very

9017
06:14:57,430 --> 06:14:56,400
much uh i really like the work you do i

9018
06:15:00,150 --> 06:14:57,440
really do

9019
06:15:02,868 --> 06:15:00,160
you know you put some humor into it you

9020
06:15:05,350 --> 06:15:02,878
you put education into it and i really

9021
06:15:07,430 --> 06:15:05,360
get a lot out of your videos i really do

9022
06:15:09,190 --> 06:15:07,440
well thanks i ditto to you i i you're

9023
06:15:10,868 --> 06:15:09,200
one of my favorite researchers people

9024
06:15:13,110 --> 06:15:10,878
ask me all the time what researchers do

9025
06:15:14,948 --> 06:15:13,120
i trust i can count them on one hand

9026
06:15:18,948 --> 06:15:14,958
this one's michael

9027
06:15:21,030 --> 06:15:18,958
hand that i can count on researchers

9028
06:15:23,430 --> 06:15:21,040
that i trust and think are providing

9029
06:15:25,670 --> 06:15:23,440
accurate information

9030
06:15:28,548 --> 06:15:25,680
so i thought what we would do today is i

9031
06:15:29,910 --> 06:15:28,558
want to try to present the roswell case

9032
06:15:33,510 --> 06:15:29,920
the best way

9033
06:15:36,070 --> 06:15:33,520
i know how as is as presented by the

9034
06:15:37,990 --> 06:15:36,080
researchers by the the reference words

9035
06:15:39,510 --> 06:15:38,000
we're just going to run through the case

9036
06:15:43,270 --> 06:15:39,520
and we're going to present it kind of

9037
06:15:44,948 --> 06:15:43,280
word for word as is and then later on

9038
06:15:47,030 --> 06:15:44,958
when we're done i kind of want to

9039
06:15:50,150 --> 06:15:47,040
provide a counter point

9040
06:15:52,070 --> 06:15:50,160
and the reason why i want to do that is

9041
06:15:55,430 --> 06:15:52,080
being a researcher

9042
06:15:58,628 --> 06:15:55,440
it is our job it is our mandate

9043
06:16:01,110 --> 06:15:58,638
to resist the urge to jump on a

9044
06:16:03,830 --> 06:16:01,120
particular bandwagon a particular

9045
06:16:06,868 --> 06:16:03,840
narrative so we have to be

9046
06:16:09,670 --> 06:16:06,878
non-biased and neutral that's our job

9047
06:16:13,350 --> 06:16:09,680
and in some cases if the truth is

9048
06:16:16,868 --> 06:16:13,360
unpopular or it's inconvenient we still

9049
06:16:18,788 --> 06:16:16,878
have to go down that road regardless

9050
06:16:20,548 --> 06:16:18,798
that's that's the goal here

9051
06:16:22,470 --> 06:16:20,558
i absolutely agree with you and i've

9052
06:16:24,868 --> 06:16:22,480
tried to keep an open mind we've we've

9053
06:16:26,628 --> 06:16:24,878
invited uh people who are true believers

9054
06:16:29,110 --> 06:16:26,638
that it was an extraterrestrial in that

9055
06:16:31,590 --> 06:16:29,120
event who were convinced of it we've

9056
06:16:33,350 --> 06:16:31,600
invited kalkorf who's a huge skeptic who

9057
06:16:34,310 --> 06:16:33,360
says it's nothing but a weather balloon

9058
06:16:35,910 --> 06:16:34,320
and hype

9059
06:16:38,708 --> 06:16:35,920
you know i've tried to keep an open mind

9060
06:16:43,270 --> 06:16:38,718
and i i'm gonna make up my mind after i

9061
06:16:47,990 --> 06:16:45,190
okay so why don't we go ahead and get

9062
06:16:50,390 --> 06:16:48,000
started and we'll share the screen now

9063
06:16:52,708 --> 06:16:50,400
let's go ahead and share screen now

9064
06:16:55,030 --> 06:16:52,718
and let's see if i can

9065
06:16:57,430 --> 06:16:55,040
figure out how to do this here uh yes

9066
06:16:59,190 --> 06:16:57,440
the center button there says share

9067
06:17:01,110 --> 06:16:59,200
okay

9068
06:17:06,708 --> 06:17:01,120
let me see

9069
06:17:13,430 --> 06:17:09,350
all right share screen

9070
06:17:16,868 --> 06:17:15,430
okay

9071
06:17:18,628 --> 06:17:16,878
all right

9072
06:17:22,470 --> 06:17:18,638
and

9073
06:17:24,948 --> 06:17:22,480
what if i go to this can you see this

9074
06:17:26,548 --> 06:17:24,958
no you have to go to the bottom it'll

9075
06:17:28,788 --> 06:17:26,558
say share

9076
06:17:30,230 --> 06:17:28,798
okay

9077
06:17:33,350 --> 06:17:30,240
the bottom right in the middle you'll

9078
06:17:35,190 --> 06:17:33,360
see a a bar there it says mute stop cam

9079
06:17:37,510 --> 06:17:35,200
setting share

9080
06:17:38,640 --> 06:17:37,520
invite leave studio

9081
06:17:40,470 --> 06:17:38,650
entire screen

9082
06:17:41,830 --> 06:17:40,480
[Music]

9083
06:17:44,948 --> 06:17:41,840
sure

9084
06:17:47,110 --> 06:17:44,958
how about now there we go now here we go

9085
06:17:49,670 --> 06:17:47,120
yeah and i can add it here to our stream

9086
06:17:51,350 --> 06:17:49,680
here there you see this is why i invite

9087
06:17:53,190 --> 06:17:51,360
michael because i'm too lazy to do all

9088
06:17:53,990 --> 06:17:53,200
these slides and i don't know i don't

9089
06:17:56,390 --> 06:17:54,000
know

9090
06:17:58,628 --> 06:17:56,400
he's got him he's got we gotta have

9091
06:18:01,110 --> 06:17:58,638
visuals we gotta have visual aids here

9092
06:18:03,350 --> 06:18:01,120
presentation and everything yeah so

9093
06:18:05,750 --> 06:18:03,360
let's let's do kind of a roswell road

9094
06:18:07,190 --> 06:18:05,760
trip report here and i want to take you

9095
06:18:08,628 --> 06:18:07,200
through the town

9096
06:18:10,788 --> 06:18:08,638
show you the

9097
06:18:12,310 --> 06:18:10,798
some of the landmarks and

9098
06:18:14,868 --> 06:18:12,320
trace the

9099
06:18:16,868 --> 06:18:14,878
historical legacy of the of the event

9100
06:18:18,548 --> 06:18:16,878
and then take you down main street which

9101
06:18:20,310 --> 06:18:18,558
you can follow today you can follow the

9102
06:18:23,030 --> 06:18:20,320
path of main street all the way to

9103
06:18:24,708 --> 06:18:23,040
hangar p3 building 84 if you choose to

9104
06:18:25,750 --> 06:18:24,718
do so so that's what we're going to do

9105
06:18:26,548 --> 06:18:25,760
here

9106
06:18:28,788 --> 06:18:26,558
and

9107
06:18:32,788 --> 06:18:28,798
the first thing that we we need to look

9108
06:18:34,150 --> 06:18:32,798
at is this map here

9109
06:18:35,670 --> 06:18:34,160
and if you

9110
06:18:37,270 --> 06:18:35,680
look at the bottom of the map you'll see

9111
06:18:39,510 --> 06:18:37,280
roswell and we'll just kind of go

9112
06:18:42,548 --> 06:18:39,520
through this slowly here

9113
06:18:43,670 --> 06:18:42,558
upper on the upper left hand you've got

9114
06:18:45,670 --> 06:18:43,680
corona

9115
06:18:48,548 --> 06:18:45,680
and then you've got something called the

9116
06:18:51,190 --> 06:18:48,558
debris field so in point of fact we're

9117
06:18:53,670 --> 06:18:51,200
talking about multiple events going on

9118
06:18:55,670 --> 06:18:53,680
at the same time it's not just one crash

9119
06:18:58,788 --> 06:18:55,680
here we've got multiple things we need

9120
06:18:59,910 --> 06:18:58,798
to look at so the first thing

9121
06:19:03,430 --> 06:18:59,920
is if you

9122
06:19:05,750 --> 06:19:03,440
look north of this large circle with the

9123
06:19:07,350 --> 06:19:05,760
arrow that i have pointed to it the

9124
06:19:10,150 --> 06:19:07,360
debris field

9125
06:19:12,468 --> 06:19:10,160
five miles north approximately five

9126
06:19:15,030 --> 06:19:12,478
miles north of debris field

9127
06:19:17,030 --> 06:19:15,040
which is 65 miles northwest of roswell

9128
06:19:19,350 --> 06:19:17,040
is something called the touchdown site

9129
06:19:21,670 --> 06:19:19,360
which almost no one ever talks about

9130
06:19:24,948 --> 06:19:21,680
it's called the touchdown site and this

9131
06:19:26,708 --> 06:19:24,958
is the location where lincoln le paz and

9132
06:19:29,830 --> 06:19:26,718
louis ricketts

9133
06:19:32,230 --> 06:19:29,840
found two interesting things

9134
06:19:33,670 --> 06:19:32,240
they found fused glass

9135
06:19:35,590 --> 06:19:33,680
fused sand

9136
06:19:37,750 --> 06:19:35,600
which is indicative of high heat and

9137
06:19:40,390 --> 06:19:37,760
they also found steven

9138
06:19:43,110 --> 06:19:40,400
a seamless black box

9139
06:19:45,270 --> 06:19:43,120
that is almost never talked about

9140
06:19:48,150 --> 06:19:45,280
it's so we we believe it to be about the

9141
06:19:49,830 --> 06:19:48,160
size of a bread box it's seamless and to

9142
06:19:52,468 --> 06:19:49,840
this day

9143
06:19:55,190 --> 06:19:52,478
i don't think anyone knows if we've ever

9144
06:19:56,788 --> 06:19:55,200
been able to open it we just don't know

9145
06:19:59,430 --> 06:19:56,798
so those are the two things that were

9146
06:20:01,910 --> 06:19:59,440
found five miles north of debris field

9147
06:20:03,830 --> 06:20:01,920
at a place called the touchdown site now

9148
06:20:07,030 --> 06:20:03,840
going south we've got the main debris

9149
06:20:09,190 --> 06:20:07,040
field 65 miles north of roswell

9150
06:20:11,430 --> 06:20:09,200
where we have mac brazil and

9151
06:20:14,868 --> 06:20:11,440
seven-year-old timothy d proctor on the

9152
06:20:17,350 --> 06:20:14,878
morning of july third 1947

9153
06:20:19,110 --> 06:20:17,360
they discovered three types of debris

9154
06:20:21,270 --> 06:20:19,120
which we're going to

9155
06:20:22,868 --> 06:20:21,280
uh look at in the next few slides here

9156
06:20:25,590 --> 06:20:22,878
now

9157
06:20:27,670 --> 06:20:25,600
as the craft is traversing from the

9158
06:20:29,270 --> 06:20:27,680
northwest to the southeast you can see

9159
06:20:30,868 --> 06:20:29,280
the track that i've drawn here that's

9160
06:20:33,990 --> 06:20:30,878
the flight path

9161
06:20:35,750 --> 06:20:34,000
this we have the main impact site now

9162
06:20:38,230 --> 06:20:35,760
there were there were five bodies

9163
06:20:40,948 --> 06:20:38,240
recovered and one was still alive

9164
06:20:43,910 --> 06:20:40,958
and we've got the the impact site which

9165
06:20:45,190 --> 06:20:43,920
was an egg-shaped craft the size of a

9166
06:20:47,110 --> 06:20:45,200
volkswagen

9167
06:20:48,830 --> 06:20:47,120
now west

9168
06:20:52,548 --> 06:20:48,840
of the impact

9169
06:20:55,190 --> 06:20:52,558
site i have a small dot here now that

9170
06:20:56,788 --> 06:20:55,200
dot should be moved further northwest

9171
06:20:59,590 --> 06:20:56,798
i've already corrected it but i need to

9172
06:21:01,510 --> 06:20:59,600
put that map into this power point so

9173
06:21:03,430 --> 06:21:01,520
take that smaller dart where i doubt

9174
06:21:05,670 --> 06:21:03,440
where i say second body site that needs

9175
06:21:09,910 --> 06:21:05,680
to be moved further to the west and

9176
06:21:10,868 --> 06:21:09,920
that's also known as the d proctor site

9177
06:21:14,468 --> 06:21:10,878
where

9178
06:21:17,030 --> 06:21:14,478
in the mid 1990s timothy d proctor

9179
06:21:19,750 --> 06:21:17,040
brought his mom to this site and told

9180
06:21:21,030 --> 06:21:19,760
here this is where i found something

9181
06:21:23,830 --> 06:21:21,040
else

9182
06:21:26,708 --> 06:21:23,840
he did see the body at least one body he

9183
06:21:29,430 --> 06:21:26,718
did see so this is a this is east of the

9184
06:21:30,948 --> 06:21:29,440
debris field now we go to the crash site

9185
06:21:33,190 --> 06:21:30,958
we already talked about it five bodies

9186
06:21:35,510 --> 06:21:33,200
recovered one was still alive

9187
06:21:37,750 --> 06:21:35,520
and this is the

9188
06:21:39,510 --> 06:21:37,760
this is kind of the technical layout of

9189
06:21:41,030 --> 06:21:39,520
where we'll be kind of going through

9190
06:21:43,110 --> 06:21:41,040
here now let's go to this one this was

9191
06:21:46,150 --> 06:21:43,120
taken by don schmidt this is the

9192
06:21:50,708 --> 06:21:46,160
vicinity of the impact site this is july

9193
06:21:52,868 --> 06:21:50,718
2nd 1947 approximately 11 59 pm

9194
06:21:55,350 --> 06:21:52,878
and if we go forward here so you can see

9195
06:21:57,110 --> 06:21:55,360
there's no trees there's these low

9196
06:21:59,190 --> 06:21:57,120
rolling hills

9197
06:22:01,830 --> 06:21:59,200
it's remote by car but it's not remote

9198
06:22:04,150 --> 06:22:01,840
by aircraft at all you can see whatever

9199
06:22:06,070 --> 06:22:04,160
would crash here would be visible by

9200
06:22:08,628 --> 06:22:06,080
someone flying over

9201
06:22:12,468 --> 06:22:08,638
so this is now the morning of july 3rd

9202
06:22:14,948 --> 06:22:12,478
1947 we've got matt brazil and we've got

9203
06:22:18,070 --> 06:22:14,958
seven-year-old timothy d proctor

9204
06:22:19,910 --> 06:22:18,080
they come across this strange debris and

9205
06:22:21,350 --> 06:22:19,920
they mentioned three types of debris

9206
06:22:24,310 --> 06:22:21,360
number one

9207
06:22:26,788 --> 06:22:24,320
they had debris that was

9208
06:22:28,548 --> 06:22:26,798
basically you could call it debris that

9209
06:22:30,948 --> 06:22:28,558
could not be cut could not be burned

9210
06:22:32,548 --> 06:22:30,958
could not be dented with with a 16-pound

9211
06:22:34,948 --> 06:22:32,558
sledge hammer that was the first type of

9212
06:22:37,750 --> 06:22:34,958
debris second type of debris is known as

9213
06:22:39,910 --> 06:22:37,760
the holy grail or the memory metal this

9214
06:22:42,230 --> 06:22:39,920
is the kind of debris where if you were

9215
06:22:45,030 --> 06:22:42,240
standing by a table and you pick this

9216
06:22:47,590 --> 06:22:45,040
debris off the table and you crinkle it

9217
06:22:49,830 --> 06:22:47,600
up in your hand and let go of it it

9218
06:22:52,310 --> 06:22:49,840
would spread out like liquid mercury and

9219
06:22:55,350 --> 06:22:52,320
then slowly drop down to the table

9220
06:22:56,868 --> 06:22:55,360
that's number two number three is these

9221
06:22:58,468 --> 06:22:56,878
strange

9222
06:23:00,150 --> 06:22:58,478
i-beams

9223
06:23:02,390 --> 06:23:00,160
that have this very interesting

9224
06:23:04,548 --> 06:23:02,400
hieroglyphic writing written on the

9225
06:23:05,590 --> 06:23:04,558
inside wall so those are the three types

9226
06:23:08,230 --> 06:23:05,600
of debris

9227
06:23:11,190 --> 06:23:08,240
that uh were found this is the morning

9228
06:23:12,468 --> 06:23:11,200
of july third 3rd 1947. okay so let's

9229
06:23:14,468 --> 06:23:12,478
move on here

9230
06:23:16,868 --> 06:23:14,478
and this is interesting because

9231
06:23:19,990 --> 06:23:16,878
whatever this was

9232
06:23:21,110 --> 06:23:20,000
was laying out in the new mexican desert

9233
06:23:24,708 --> 06:23:21,120
area

9234
06:23:27,110 --> 06:23:24,718
for the night of the second the third

9235
06:23:29,350 --> 06:23:27,120
the fourth the fifth the sixth and the

9236
06:23:32,708 --> 06:23:29,360
seventh so we've got like we're looking

9237
06:23:34,948 --> 06:23:32,718
at five to six days that the debris the

9238
06:23:36,468 --> 06:23:34,958
craft the bodies were already sitting

9239
06:23:38,390 --> 06:23:36,478
out there before the military got

9240
06:23:41,990 --> 06:23:38,400
involved so you can see we've got

9241
06:23:44,070 --> 06:23:42,000
erosion we've got weather we've got

9242
06:23:45,990 --> 06:23:44,080
not gonna happen in five days a lot can

9243
06:23:47,670 --> 06:23:46,000
happen in five days that's right that's

9244
06:23:49,750 --> 06:23:47,680
right so and and see now that's

9245
06:23:52,708 --> 06:23:49,760
consistent because if you have a body

9246
06:23:55,190 --> 06:23:52,718
that's decomposing over five six days

9247
06:23:56,230 --> 06:23:55,200
and you've got animals nibbling on these

9248
06:23:58,868 --> 06:23:56,240
things

9249
06:24:02,070 --> 06:23:58,878
it's gonna start wreaking really bad and

9250
06:24:04,150 --> 06:24:02,080
that's precisely the report that we got

9251
06:24:06,788 --> 06:24:04,160
from the members who on the retrieval

9252
06:24:09,670 --> 06:24:06,798
team they said that the stench of the

9253
06:24:12,310 --> 06:24:09,680
bodies permeated their uniforms and

9254
06:24:13,910 --> 06:24:12,320
their fabric on their clothes so bad

9255
06:24:15,350 --> 06:24:13,920
that their wives had to burn their

9256
06:24:17,750 --> 06:24:15,360
clothes

9257
06:24:19,590 --> 06:24:17,760
now someone tell me how a weather

9258
06:24:21,910 --> 06:24:19,600
balloon is going to do that

9259
06:24:23,110 --> 06:24:21,920
how how is that going to happen just

9260
06:24:24,788 --> 06:24:23,120
throwing it out there how is that going

9261
06:24:25,990 --> 06:24:24,798
to happen okay so

9262
06:24:28,310 --> 06:24:26,000
this is an illustration that i

9263
06:24:29,430 --> 06:24:28,320
commissioned my friend tom bogan to do

9264
06:24:32,150 --> 06:24:29,440
for me

9265
06:24:34,070 --> 06:24:32,160
he's no longer with us so i'm preserving

9266
06:24:36,390 --> 06:24:34,080
his legacy he gets the credit for this

9267
06:24:39,030 --> 06:24:36,400
now this was done under the strict

9268
06:24:41,830 --> 06:24:39,040
guidance of don schmidt don schmidt has

9269
06:24:43,830 --> 06:24:41,840
reviewed these this is as close as we

9270
06:24:44,788 --> 06:24:43,840
can possibly get to what it may have

9271
06:24:47,350 --> 06:24:44,798
looked like

9272
06:24:49,190 --> 06:24:47,360
now let's go on we'll go on to the left

9273
06:24:50,868 --> 06:24:49,200
here we've got the ambulance truck we've

9274
06:24:52,788 --> 06:24:50,878
got the survivor there above the

9275
06:24:54,868 --> 06:24:52,798
ambulance truck we've got the 18 wheeler

9276
06:24:57,510 --> 06:24:54,878
tractor trailer lowboy

9277
06:24:59,910 --> 06:24:57,520
we've got a jeep here don schmidt also

9278
06:25:03,590 --> 06:24:59,920
stated that where this craft came down

9279
06:25:05,270 --> 06:25:03,600
was was within very close proximity of a

9280
06:25:07,670 --> 06:25:05,280
windmill

9281
06:25:10,310 --> 06:25:07,680
and a small water tank so we've got that

9282
06:25:11,910 --> 06:25:10,320
we've got the uh troop transport on the

9283
06:25:14,230 --> 06:25:11,920
right hand side and then in the

9284
06:25:16,070 --> 06:25:14,240
foreground to the right we've got this

9285
06:25:18,468 --> 06:25:16,080
egg-shaped craft the size of a

9286
06:25:20,230 --> 06:25:18,478
volkswagen with a hull breech and then a

9287
06:25:22,868 --> 06:25:20,240
couple of other bodies

9288
06:25:25,590 --> 06:25:22,878
so there's one thing in here that we did

9289
06:25:28,150 --> 06:25:25,600
not add which almost no one knows about

9290
06:25:31,430 --> 06:25:28,160
which don schmidt told me

9291
06:25:34,150 --> 06:25:31,440
at roswell army airfield the 509th bomb

9292
06:25:37,190 --> 06:25:34,160
group did not have a crane at the time

9293
06:25:40,310 --> 06:25:37,200
of this incident so they brought in from

9294
06:25:42,628 --> 06:25:40,320
downtown roswell a civilian crane to

9295
06:25:44,468 --> 06:25:42,638
pick up the craft and put it on the 18

9296
06:25:45,990 --> 06:25:44,478
wheeler tractor trailer we just didn't

9297
06:25:47,990 --> 06:25:46,000
have enough real estate in this

9298
06:25:50,628 --> 06:25:48,000
illustration to put that in but there

9299
06:25:53,030 --> 06:25:50,638
should be a crane in this illustration

9300
06:25:55,270 --> 06:25:53,040
to make it completely complete so let's

9301
06:25:56,150 --> 06:25:55,280
move on to the next scene here

9302
06:25:58,390 --> 06:25:56,160
now

9303
06:26:02,548 --> 06:25:58,400
this is roswell main street military

9304
06:26:04,628 --> 06:26:02,558
convoy july 8 1947 and we have this plus

9305
06:26:07,030 --> 06:26:04,638
or minus five minutes because we've

9306
06:26:10,708 --> 06:26:07,040
identified multiple eyewitnesses

9307
06:26:13,590 --> 06:26:10,718
including two paper boys who saw a very

9308
06:26:15,270 --> 06:26:13,600
interesting convoy going right down main

9309
06:26:17,590 --> 06:26:15,280
street and you can follow that route

9310
06:26:19,750 --> 06:26:17,600
today all the way to the base so you've

9311
06:26:22,150 --> 06:26:19,760
got a couple jeeps up front you've got

9312
06:26:24,628 --> 06:26:22,160
that 18 wheeler tractor trailer that was

9313
06:26:26,788 --> 06:26:24,638
at the crash site we've got a jeep in

9314
06:26:29,190 --> 06:26:26,798
back but then there were multiple

9315
06:26:32,310 --> 06:26:29,200
eyewitnesses that stated that

9316
06:26:36,390 --> 06:26:32,320
there was this strange egg-shaped craft

9317
06:26:38,390 --> 06:26:36,400
it was about 12 13 feet across it might

9318
06:26:40,628 --> 06:26:38,400
have been eight feet tall

9319
06:26:42,628 --> 06:26:40,638
and they had a tarp over it they had

9320
06:26:44,868 --> 06:26:42,638
ropes covering it

9321
06:26:47,910 --> 06:26:44,878
and you could not see what was down here

9322
06:26:50,230 --> 06:26:47,920
but it did resemble this egg-shaped

9323
06:26:52,708 --> 06:26:50,240
craft and that's consistent with what we

9324
06:26:55,830 --> 06:26:52,718
know about the actual crash site so

9325
06:26:57,670 --> 06:26:55,840
these things seem to check out okay so

9326
06:27:00,230 --> 06:26:57,680
we're tracking pretty good here so let's

9327
06:27:02,548 --> 06:27:00,240
let's move i want to take you inside the

9328
06:27:06,070 --> 06:27:02,558
hangar now so this is roswell army

9329
06:27:08,948 --> 06:27:06,080
airfield hangar p3 building 84 this is

9330
06:27:12,390 --> 06:27:08,958
approximately 15 minutes to 20 minutes

9331
06:27:13,830 --> 06:27:12,400
after the two paper boys saw the convoy

9332
06:27:16,868 --> 06:27:13,840
going down main street which you can

9333
06:27:19,190 --> 06:27:16,878
follow today now in the foreground

9334
06:27:20,868 --> 06:27:19,200
we've got a few bodies here

9335
06:27:23,190 --> 06:27:20,878
over to the left we've got the child

9336
06:27:25,750 --> 06:27:23,200
size casket that was confirmed by glenn

9337
06:27:27,830 --> 06:27:25,760
dennis who got the order for the child

9338
06:27:29,670 --> 06:27:27,840
size caskets from the base which is

9339
06:27:31,430 --> 06:27:29,680
interesting why if it's a weather

9340
06:27:33,990 --> 06:27:31,440
balloon why would you have child sized

9341
06:27:35,510 --> 06:27:34,000
cat that makes no sense whatsoever so

9342
06:27:38,468 --> 06:27:35,520
the weather balloon

9343
06:27:40,390 --> 06:27:38,478
explanation is is quickly deflating here

9344
06:27:42,468 --> 06:27:40,400
it's quickly bursting

9345
06:27:44,548 --> 06:27:42,478
uh off to the left we've got that troop

9346
06:27:45,990 --> 06:27:44,558
transport with debris and here's the

9347
06:27:48,390 --> 06:27:46,000
other thing

9348
06:27:51,910 --> 06:27:48,400
if this was a weather balloon

9349
06:27:54,948 --> 06:27:51,920
why would you have two teams of military

9350
06:27:57,350 --> 06:27:54,958
police uh from other uh

9351
06:27:59,670 --> 06:27:57,360
sections as well criss-crossing the

9352
06:28:01,750 --> 06:27:59,680
debris field for at least

9353
06:28:03,030 --> 06:28:01,760
two days on their hands and knees if

9354
06:28:06,468 --> 06:28:03,040
this is just a weather balloon that

9355
06:28:08,150 --> 06:28:06,478
doesn't make any sense now in the back

9356
06:28:10,390 --> 06:28:08,160
you've got the wooden crate that they're

9357
06:28:13,430 --> 06:28:10,400
building and they're going to put the

9358
06:28:15,350 --> 06:28:13,440
bodies in the caskets and the caskets go

9359
06:28:17,030 --> 06:28:15,360
in the wooden crate off to the right

9360
06:28:19,510 --> 06:28:17,040
you've got the 18 wheeler tractor

9361
06:28:22,150 --> 06:28:19,520
trailer with the craft on there on the

9362
06:28:25,510 --> 06:28:22,160
low blade now it's interesting to keep

9363
06:28:28,468 --> 06:28:25,520
in mind that by the time

9364
06:28:31,110 --> 06:28:28,478
we had the retrieval operation the

9365
06:28:33,990 --> 06:28:31,120
civilians got to i'm going to back up a

9366
06:28:37,910 --> 06:28:34,000
couple here civilians got here before

9367
06:28:40,468 --> 06:28:37,920
the military and so what that means is

9368
06:28:43,110 --> 06:28:40,478
to this day stephen i i'm be willing to

9369
06:28:45,510 --> 06:28:43,120
bet that there are still some people out

9370
06:28:47,670 --> 06:28:45,520
here relatives of people who got to the

9371
06:28:50,070 --> 06:28:47,680
debris field before

9372
06:28:51,030 --> 06:28:50,080
the military got involved and the crash

9373
06:28:52,708 --> 06:28:51,040
site

9374
06:28:54,310 --> 06:28:52,718
they picked up a souvenir and they still

9375
06:28:56,230 --> 06:28:54,320
have it today

9376
06:28:58,070 --> 06:28:56,240
i'm sure i would agree with you that

9377
06:28:59,670 --> 06:28:58,080
somebody's gotta have

9378
06:29:02,468 --> 06:28:59,680
i think that somebody's got this

9379
06:29:04,788 --> 06:29:02,478
material hidden away and after all these

9380
06:29:07,590 --> 06:29:04,798
years uh i don't believe that they were

9381
06:29:09,110 --> 06:29:07,600
able to get it all and and just to clear

9382
06:29:10,468 --> 06:29:09,120
up a little bit of confusion because

9383
06:29:13,350 --> 06:29:10,478
people are always confused by this

9384
06:29:14,868 --> 06:29:13,360
there's two separate debris

9385
06:29:16,628 --> 06:29:14,878
sites right there's the one where

9386
06:29:18,708 --> 06:29:16,638
everything was destroyed and it was

9387
06:29:20,468 --> 06:29:18,718
literal little pieces that they had to

9388
06:29:21,350 --> 06:29:20,478
pick up and then there was the second

9389
06:29:23,270 --> 06:29:21,360
site

9390
06:29:26,708 --> 06:29:23,280
with what some people believe was some

9391
06:29:29,270 --> 06:29:26,718
sort of escape pod or you know crew pod

9392
06:29:30,948 --> 06:29:29,280
that you're describing here but yeah i

9393
06:29:32,868 --> 06:29:30,958
would think that all those people

9394
06:29:34,948 --> 06:29:32,878
involved somebody would put some of that

9395
06:29:37,670 --> 06:29:34,958
in their pocket some of them would you

9396
06:29:40,150 --> 06:29:37,680
know spirit it away put it away because

9397
06:29:43,430 --> 06:29:40,160
this was a huge event like this could be

9398
06:29:45,830 --> 06:29:43,440
alien spacecraft parts yeah i would grab

9399
06:29:48,788 --> 06:29:45,840
some someone's got physical evidence

9400
06:29:51,350 --> 06:29:48,798
right now as we speak probably in the

9401
06:29:53,430 --> 06:29:51,360
roswell area or they might have handed

9402
06:29:55,110 --> 06:29:53,440
it to a relative or a cousin and then

9403
06:29:57,110 --> 06:29:55,120
they moved away but

9404
06:29:59,350 --> 06:29:57,120
you can bet your bottom dollar that

9405
06:30:01,830 --> 06:29:59,360
somebody has something

9406
06:30:03,670 --> 06:30:01,840
now they probably won't come forward it

9407
06:30:05,510 --> 06:30:03,680
might be a death wish because now you're

9408
06:30:06,230 --> 06:30:05,520
playing with the big boys

9409
06:30:07,590 --> 06:30:06,240
we

9410
06:30:09,270 --> 06:30:07,600
that's how

9411
06:30:11,190 --> 06:30:09,280
you can get in trouble when you have

9412
06:30:13,670 --> 06:30:11,200
physical evidence

9413
06:30:16,150 --> 06:30:13,680
because the way this game is played is

9414
06:30:18,150 --> 06:30:16,160
they don't care what you know

9415
06:30:20,070 --> 06:30:18,160
they care what you can prove that's how

9416
06:30:22,868 --> 06:30:20,080
this game is played and if you have a

9417
06:30:23,990 --> 06:30:22,878
piece of actual physical hardware now

9418
06:30:25,190 --> 06:30:24,000
you're in a completely different

9419
06:30:27,030 --> 06:30:25,200
category

9420
06:30:29,990 --> 06:30:27,040
so that's something to keep in mind and

9421
06:30:31,430 --> 06:30:30,000
so it we can we know why people haven't

9422
06:30:33,830 --> 06:30:31,440
come forward because it's a very

9423
06:30:35,030 --> 06:30:33,840
dangerous thing to do now let's keep in

9424
06:30:36,948 --> 06:30:35,040
mind

9425
06:30:39,590 --> 06:30:36,958
when this is all going on it was kind of

9426
06:30:41,830 --> 06:30:39,600
a chaotic situation you had multiple

9427
06:30:44,628 --> 06:30:41,840
things converging at the same time and

9428
06:30:47,030 --> 06:30:44,638
by this time the first body flight had

9429
06:30:50,230 --> 06:30:47,040
already departed roswell this was in a

9430
06:30:51,510 --> 06:30:50,240
c-54 by papi henderson the other body

9431
06:30:52,390 --> 06:30:51,520
flight that we're going to talk about

9432
06:30:55,030 --> 06:30:52,400
later

9433
06:30:57,190 --> 06:30:55,040
is the straight flush b29 so

9434
06:30:58,390 --> 06:30:57,200
by by this time we're preparing the

9435
06:31:00,708 --> 06:30:58,400
bodies for

9436
06:31:02,628 --> 06:31:00,718
getting out of here first body flight is

9437
06:31:04,390 --> 06:31:02,638
already gone went directly to right

9438
06:31:07,110 --> 06:31:04,400
field dayton ohio

9439
06:31:09,430 --> 06:31:07,120
okay so what they did next is they put

9440
06:31:11,990 --> 06:31:09,440
the bodies in the caskets the small

9441
06:31:14,230 --> 06:31:12,000
stature child-sized caskets

9442
06:31:16,548 --> 06:31:14,240
those cast skits were put into the

9443
06:31:19,670 --> 06:31:16,558
wooden crate and the wooden crate was

9444
06:31:21,670 --> 06:31:19,680
lowered into atomic bomb pit number one

9445
06:31:24,468 --> 06:31:21,680
and then they this is interesting they

9446
06:31:26,868 --> 06:31:24,478
put two perimeter screens around atomic

9447
06:31:29,750 --> 06:31:26,878
bomb pick number one with mp stationed

9448
06:31:32,390 --> 06:31:29,760
both inside and out of both rings and

9449
06:31:34,868 --> 06:31:32,400
these mps will were told to shoot to

9450
06:31:37,430 --> 06:31:34,878
kill anyone who tried to breach these

9451
06:31:40,390 --> 06:31:37,440
perimeter screens now i argue

9452
06:31:41,910 --> 06:31:40,400
how why in the world would you shoot to

9453
06:31:42,868 --> 06:31:41,920
kill someone

9454
06:31:45,990 --> 06:31:42,878
over a wedding

9455
06:31:48,708 --> 06:31:46,000
standing guard with a with a

9456
06:31:50,788 --> 06:31:48,718
wooden crate that reeks of decomposing

9457
06:31:53,190 --> 06:31:50,798
bodies if it's a weather balloon this

9458
06:31:55,430 --> 06:31:53,200
doesn't make any sense even if it's a

9459
06:31:56,868 --> 06:31:55,440
project mogul balloon it still doesn't

9460
06:31:58,708 --> 06:31:56,878
make any sense

9461
06:32:00,788 --> 06:31:58,718
yeah not [\h__\h] to kill and it would have

9462
06:32:03,350 --> 06:32:00,798
to be it would have to be something a

9463
06:32:05,190 --> 06:32:03,360
little more important and exotic than

9464
06:32:06,708 --> 06:32:05,200
weather balloon parts or radar

9465
06:32:09,030 --> 06:32:06,718
reflectors

9466
06:32:11,430 --> 06:32:09,040
precisely precisely that's exactly

9467
06:32:14,150 --> 06:32:11,440
correct all right so now

9468
06:32:16,788 --> 06:32:14,160
we're moving on this is b29 straight

9469
06:32:19,350 --> 06:32:16,798
flush taxis over atomic bomb pit number

9470
06:32:21,590 --> 06:32:19,360
one roswell army airfield wooden crate

9471
06:32:24,468 --> 06:32:21,600
loaded into cargo bay this is july 9th

9472
06:32:26,548 --> 06:32:24,478
1947 flown to 8th air force headquarters

9473
06:32:28,868 --> 06:32:26,558
fort worth texas so you can see they're

9474
06:32:30,628 --> 06:32:28,878
now bringing the crate up into the

9475
06:32:32,390 --> 06:32:30,638
bombay of the b-29 this is straight

9476
06:32:33,750 --> 06:32:32,400
flush and what's interesting about

9477
06:32:35,910 --> 06:32:33,760
straight flush is

9478
06:32:38,350 --> 06:32:35,920
if this story is true

9479
06:32:40,548 --> 06:32:38,360
if we really did recover

9480
06:32:43,590 --> 06:32:40,558
extraterrestrial bodies

9481
06:32:45,350 --> 06:32:43,600
why did they scrap this aircraft and

9482
06:32:47,910 --> 06:32:45,360
it's the most significant historically

9483
06:32:49,990 --> 06:32:47,920
significant aircraft in the world

9484
06:32:51,670 --> 06:32:50,000
and they they got rid of it this i don't

9485
06:32:53,670 --> 06:32:51,680
get it i don't understand the logic this

9486
06:32:56,548 --> 06:32:53,680
should be preserved for history if the

9487
06:32:58,390 --> 06:32:56,558
story i would agree yeah absolutely it's

9488
06:32:59,510 --> 06:32:58,400
it would be it would be one of the

9489
06:33:00,788 --> 06:32:59,520
biggest

9490
06:33:02,628 --> 06:33:00,798
it would be one of the most important

9491
06:33:05,350 --> 06:33:02,638
aircraft in aircraft history because it

9492
06:33:08,390 --> 06:33:05,360
would have flown these biological

9493
06:33:09,510 --> 06:33:08,400
bodies of otherworldly beings to ray

9494
06:33:11,190 --> 06:33:09,520
patterson

9495
06:33:12,468 --> 06:33:11,200
or i'm sorry this one was flown to air

9496
06:33:15,110 --> 06:33:12,478
force headquarters

9497
06:33:17,750 --> 06:33:15,120
for fort worth texas correct yep all

9498
06:33:19,830 --> 06:33:17,760
right so now b-29 straight flush flew

9499
06:33:23,510 --> 06:33:19,840
the roswell bodies to 8th air force fort

9500
06:33:26,070 --> 06:33:23,520
worth texas scrapped july 1954 so i just

9501
06:33:28,468 --> 06:33:26,080
i just can't get over the fact that this

9502
06:33:31,110 --> 06:33:28,478
is like the most significant

9503
06:33:33,750 --> 06:33:31,120
airplane in who i mean arguably more

9504
06:33:35,670 --> 06:33:33,760
significant than the right flyer that's

9505
06:33:37,350 --> 06:33:35,680
hanging from the smithsonian right now

9506
06:33:40,150 --> 06:33:37,360
the air space museum

9507
06:33:43,190 --> 06:33:40,160
this is even more significant than that

9508
06:33:44,948 --> 06:33:43,200
but yet it's gone okay well so this is

9509
06:33:47,430 --> 06:33:44,958
the model aircraft display at the

9510
06:33:49,910 --> 06:33:47,440
roswell air center and you can see all

9511
06:33:52,468 --> 06:33:49,920
these really nice aircraft here

9512
06:33:59,830 --> 06:33:52,478
but take a look on the top shelf here

9513
06:34:05,590 --> 06:34:02,708
85 and ladies and gentlemen this is all

9514
06:34:09,110 --> 06:34:05,600
we got left all we have left of the most

9515
06:34:10,868 --> 06:34:09,120
historic aircraft of all time is a scale

9516
06:34:13,030 --> 06:34:10,878
plastic model that's it that's all we've

9517
06:34:14,788 --> 06:34:13,040
got they absolutely should have

9518
06:34:17,270 --> 06:34:14,798
preserved this it should have went to

9519
06:34:19,270 --> 06:34:17,280
the air force museum in dayton ohio and

9520
06:34:22,230 --> 06:34:19,280
they they wouldn't need to say what the

9521
06:34:23,750 --> 06:34:22,240
cargo was people in the know would know

9522
06:34:26,070 --> 06:34:23,760
but at the very least they could have

9523
06:34:28,708 --> 06:34:26,080
saved it for us

9524
06:34:31,670 --> 06:34:28,718
yeah and even even forget about roswell

9525
06:34:33,910 --> 06:34:31,680
even just the history of

9526
06:34:35,990 --> 06:34:33,920
the nuclear and atomic arsenal of the

9527
06:34:38,390 --> 06:34:36,000
united states it was involved in that as

9528
06:34:40,070 --> 06:34:38,400
well so it should be preserved it should

9529
06:34:40,948 --> 06:34:40,080
be preserved that's correct that's

9530
06:34:43,190 --> 06:34:40,958
correct

9531
06:34:46,070 --> 06:34:43,200
okay so here's the uh

9532
06:34:49,030 --> 06:34:46,080
nose art straight flush

9533
06:34:51,430 --> 06:34:49,040
and then we should talk about the c 54

9534
06:34:54,230 --> 06:34:51,440
now at least two bodies were flown

9535
06:34:56,868 --> 06:34:54,240
directly from roswell airfield to right

9536
06:34:58,948 --> 06:34:56,878
field dayton ohio it was not known as

9537
06:35:00,948 --> 06:34:58,958
wright-patterson air force base yet it

9538
06:35:04,948 --> 06:35:00,958
was still known as right field and this

9539
06:35:06,230 --> 06:35:04,958
was flown by pappy henderson uh

9540
06:35:08,948 --> 06:35:06,240
who was a

9541
06:35:10,310 --> 06:35:08,958
good good very good pilot

9542
06:35:13,750 --> 06:35:10,320
his

9543
06:35:16,390 --> 06:35:13,760
uh wife sappho had confirmed that he had

9544
06:35:17,750 --> 06:35:16,400
told her the story later on so we got a

9545
06:35:19,910 --> 06:35:17,760
kind of a second independent

9546
06:35:21,990 --> 06:35:19,920
confirmation there and this is a drawing

9547
06:35:24,468 --> 06:35:22,000
by my friend rudy gardea and here we've

9548
06:35:26,868 --> 06:35:24,478
got pappy henderson overseeing the

9549
06:35:29,190 --> 06:35:26,878
loading of the body

9550
06:35:31,190 --> 06:35:29,200
into the c54

9551
06:35:33,270 --> 06:35:31,200
so we just wanted to kind of yeah and

9552
06:35:35,350 --> 06:35:33,280
just just to be clear this is an on the

9553
06:35:37,750 --> 06:35:35,360
record witness who gave his testimony

9554
06:35:39,350 --> 06:35:37,760
that this is what he witnessed he he

9555
06:35:41,910 --> 06:35:39,360
went on the record to say this is what

9556
06:35:43,670 --> 06:35:41,920
he witnessed and he flew this

9557
06:35:46,390 --> 06:35:43,680
where he flew it i mean

9558
06:35:49,150 --> 06:35:46,400
he he told his wife sappho

9559
06:35:51,350 --> 06:35:49,160
uh years later sometime around

9560
06:35:53,190 --> 06:35:51,360
1983-86 time frame

9561
06:35:54,390 --> 06:35:53,200
when they saw it on the supermarket

9562
06:35:55,510 --> 06:35:54,400
checkout

9563
06:35:57,670 --> 06:35:55,520
so

9564
06:36:00,150 --> 06:35:57,680
you know it's it all really boils down

9565
06:36:01,910 --> 06:36:00,160
to eyewitness testimony in many cases

9566
06:36:04,310 --> 06:36:01,920
when we don't have physical evidence how

9567
06:36:07,590 --> 06:36:04,320
much do you trust your fellow man your

9568
06:36:09,270 --> 06:36:07,600
fellow woman your fellow uh library

9569
06:36:11,510 --> 06:36:09,280
research assistant

9570
06:36:13,670 --> 06:36:11,520
uh reference librarian how how much do

9571
06:36:15,830 --> 06:36:13,680
we actually trust these people

9572
06:36:18,070 --> 06:36:15,840
i i just don't think that

9573
06:36:20,468 --> 06:36:18,080
happy henderson would would be promoting

9574
06:36:22,310 --> 06:36:20,478
a lie i mean is it ace

9575
06:36:24,070 --> 06:36:22,320
this has always bothered me when the

9576
06:36:25,510 --> 06:36:24,080
skeptics say well you know so these

9577
06:36:27,830 --> 06:36:25,520
people said these things doesn't mean

9578
06:36:30,468 --> 06:36:27,840
it's true or they made it up or they're

9579
06:36:33,430 --> 06:36:30,478
trying this guy has not really profited

9580
06:36:34,868 --> 06:36:33,440
from his story i always follow the money

9581
06:36:36,708 --> 06:36:34,878
you know if somebody's coming out with a

9582
06:36:39,110 --> 06:36:36,718
fantastical story and then they're all

9583
06:36:40,830 --> 06:36:39,120
over you know at ufo conferences telling

9584
06:36:43,430 --> 06:36:40,840
their story over and over again for

9585
06:36:45,350 --> 06:36:43,440
money that doesn't hold as much weight

9586
06:36:47,510 --> 06:36:45,360
to me as some of these roswell witnesses

9587
06:36:49,430 --> 06:36:47,520
who right years later came out with

9588
06:36:51,350 --> 06:36:49,440
their story it just

9589
06:36:52,788 --> 06:36:51,360
i i don't believe that this guy would

9590
06:36:55,030 --> 06:36:52,798
just make this up

9591
06:36:57,510 --> 06:36:55,040
for for what reason correct

9592
06:36:58,948 --> 06:36:57,520
the advantage really you know what would

9593
06:37:00,788 --> 06:36:58,958
be the advantage okay then of course

9594
06:37:03,110 --> 06:37:00,798
we've got the uh

9595
06:37:05,510 --> 06:37:03,120
autopsy that perhaps took place in the

9596
06:37:07,670 --> 06:37:05,520
foreign technology division right field

9597
06:37:10,628 --> 06:37:07,680
dayton ohio this is sometime july 9th

9598
06:37:12,628 --> 06:37:10,638
1947. we do not know the exact date so

9599
06:37:13,510 --> 06:37:12,638
that's kind of the sight picture here

9600
06:37:15,990 --> 06:37:13,520
but

9601
06:37:19,030 --> 06:37:16,000
what i want to do is i want to present

9602
06:37:21,350 --> 06:37:19,040
what what is the best available

9603
06:37:24,948 --> 06:37:21,360
witness testimony that we have that we

9604
06:37:27,510 --> 06:37:24,958
can really drill down and and really

9605
06:37:29,110 --> 06:37:27,520
trust someone reliable someone that's

9606
06:37:30,948 --> 06:37:29,120
documented well

9607
06:37:33,910 --> 06:37:30,958
we have something

9608
06:37:35,430 --> 06:37:33,920
in the form of mr marion black mac

9609
06:37:38,390 --> 06:37:35,440
magruder

9610
06:37:40,548 --> 06:37:38,400
and he was a world war ii pilot he was a

9611
06:37:41,590 --> 06:37:40,558
fantastic pilot he was deployed to

9612
06:37:44,868 --> 06:37:41,600
england

9613
06:37:47,590 --> 06:37:44,878
february 6 1943 to learn about night

9614
06:37:49,510 --> 06:37:47,600
fighting now prior to this time america

9615
06:37:51,270 --> 06:37:49,520
didn't know a thing about night fighting

9616
06:37:53,990 --> 06:37:51,280
so they had sent

9617
06:37:55,590 --> 06:37:54,000
marrying magruder over to england to

9618
06:37:58,708 --> 06:37:55,600
learn about knight fighting come back to

9619
06:38:01,350 --> 06:37:58,718
the us and then teach u.s pilots and

9620
06:38:03,350 --> 06:38:01,360
military personnel exactly how to go

9621
06:38:05,590 --> 06:38:03,360
about night fighting because we

9622
06:38:07,430 --> 06:38:05,600
the britons are the ones who invented

9623
06:38:09,830 --> 06:38:07,440
the radar before the germans and

9624
06:38:12,390 --> 06:38:09,840
americans and so we had to get kind of

9625
06:38:14,070 --> 06:38:12,400
an intel so that we would know how to do

9626
06:38:16,230 --> 06:38:14,080
it and so they said yeah isn't it isn't

9627
06:38:18,390 --> 06:38:16,240
it accurate that because because in

9628
06:38:20,948 --> 06:38:18,400
england there was all those uh german

9629
06:38:24,070 --> 06:38:20,958
bombing raids at night they got to be

9630
06:38:26,310 --> 06:38:24,080
quickly got to be experts at repelling

9631
06:38:27,350 --> 06:38:26,320
you know invading forces and dogfighting

9632
06:38:28,628 --> 06:38:27,360
at night

9633
06:38:30,548 --> 06:38:28,638
and these things so it makes sense that

9634
06:38:32,788 --> 06:38:30,558
we would send our pilots to the experts

9635
06:38:35,590 --> 06:38:32,798
to learn it exactly that's precisely

9636
06:38:38,150 --> 06:38:35,600
correct so here he is air war college

9637
06:38:39,750 --> 06:38:38,160
1947 1948

9638
06:38:43,670 --> 06:38:39,760
and then if i want to take you to

9639
06:38:46,468 --> 06:38:43,680
montgomery field this is alabama now

9640
06:38:50,150 --> 06:38:46,478
he was at the air war college in april

9641
06:38:52,708 --> 06:38:50,160
of 1948 and a very interesting call came

9642
06:38:55,510 --> 06:38:52,718
in because this was about two groups of

9643
06:38:57,670 --> 06:38:55,520
18 world war ii pilots the best of the

9644
06:39:01,030 --> 06:38:57,680
best went to montgomery field this is

9645
06:39:03,030 --> 06:39:01,040
april 1948 a strange call

9646
06:39:05,590 --> 06:39:03,040
came in from right field

9647
06:39:06,628 --> 06:39:05,600
right patterson air force base

9648
06:39:09,270 --> 06:39:06,638
and

9649
06:39:10,628 --> 06:39:09,280
it was urgent they needed to go to

9650
06:39:12,628 --> 06:39:10,638
wright patterson air force base

9651
06:39:14,548 --> 06:39:12,638
immediately so that there was a plane

9652
06:39:15,510 --> 06:39:14,558
was provided for them they all got on

9653
06:39:16,788 --> 06:39:15,520
the plane

9654
06:39:19,510 --> 06:39:16,798
and they wanted to get their

9655
06:39:21,350 --> 06:39:19,520
quote-unquote opinion on something very

9656
06:39:23,750 --> 06:39:21,360
interesting they wanted to get an urgent

9657
06:39:26,788 --> 06:39:23,760
opinion on something and so here's the

9658
06:39:29,350 --> 06:39:26,798
air war college maxwell field montgomery

9659
06:39:30,390 --> 06:39:29,360
alabama 1948 just to give a sight

9660
06:39:31,990 --> 06:39:30,400
picture here

9661
06:39:34,868 --> 06:39:32,000
and then we've got right patterson air

9662
06:39:37,270 --> 06:39:34,878
force base april 1948 and this is the

9663
06:39:39,350 --> 06:39:37,280
subject of where we're gonna drill down

9664
06:39:41,990 --> 06:39:39,360
now so what happened is

9665
06:39:43,750 --> 06:39:42,000
they were brought to wright-patterson

9666
06:39:47,190 --> 06:39:43,760
air force base

9667
06:39:49,750 --> 06:39:47,200
this is according to mark magruder his

9668
06:39:52,868 --> 06:39:49,760
son so i did about a two hour interview

9669
06:39:54,948 --> 06:39:52,878
with mark magruder and he provided the

9670
06:39:56,868 --> 06:39:54,958
notes from his father

9671
06:39:58,548 --> 06:39:56,878
where they talked about a very

9672
06:40:01,030 --> 06:39:58,558
interesting encounter now so you can

9673
06:40:03,030 --> 06:40:01,040
picture there's two teams of world war

9674
06:40:04,548 --> 06:40:03,040
ii pilots they fly them to wright

9675
06:40:05,910 --> 06:40:04,558
patterson air force base they're brought

9676
06:40:08,788 --> 06:40:05,920
into a room

9677
06:40:11,670 --> 06:40:08,798
and then two men come in with a box and

9678
06:40:14,070 --> 06:40:11,680
they start handing out debris which they

9679
06:40:15,270 --> 06:40:14,080
said came from the roswell crack and a

9680
06:40:17,350 --> 06:40:15,280
lot of these piles they didn't know

9681
06:40:19,030 --> 06:40:17,360
anything about this they weren't even

9682
06:40:20,230 --> 06:40:19,040
involved but they start handing out this

9683
06:40:22,390 --> 06:40:20,240
debris

9684
06:40:23,670 --> 06:40:22,400
and these pilots they're holding this

9685
06:40:25,670 --> 06:40:23,680
debris in their hands and they're

9686
06:40:27,670 --> 06:40:25,680
looking at it they're feeling it they're

9687
06:40:28,468 --> 06:40:27,680
wondering where where actually it came

9688
06:40:30,708 --> 06:40:28,478
from

9689
06:40:33,190 --> 06:40:30,718
what its properties were now when all

9690
06:40:36,230 --> 06:40:33,200
that was done the debris was gathered

9691
06:40:38,788 --> 06:40:36,240
put back into the boxes and then

9692
06:40:40,548 --> 06:40:38,798
this team of two teams of 18 world war

9693
06:40:42,468 --> 06:40:40,558
ii pilots they are led down this

9694
06:40:44,948 --> 06:40:42,478
corridor at wright patterson air force

9695
06:40:46,788 --> 06:40:44,958
base they make a left-hand turn and

9696
06:40:49,670 --> 06:40:46,798
they're brought into this

9697
06:40:51,350 --> 06:40:49,680
somewhat medium-sized room with no

9698
06:40:53,270 --> 06:40:51,360
windows but on the

9699
06:40:54,468 --> 06:40:53,280
back wall

9700
06:40:55,510 --> 06:40:54,478
there's this

9701
06:40:58,150 --> 06:40:55,520
one-way

9702
06:40:59,750 --> 06:40:58,160
mirror where you could look inside but

9703
06:41:01,110 --> 06:40:59,760
whatever was there could not look back

9704
06:41:04,150 --> 06:41:01,120
to you

9705
06:41:05,910 --> 06:41:04,160
and what they ended up seeing

9706
06:41:09,430 --> 06:41:05,920
was the survivor

9707
06:41:11,990 --> 06:41:09,440
so here's the survivor april 1948

9708
06:41:13,910 --> 06:41:12,000
drawing by rudy guardia can you imagine

9709
06:41:17,030 --> 06:41:13,920
seeing the survivor

9710
06:41:20,468 --> 06:41:17,040
of the roswell crash uh

9711
06:41:22,310 --> 06:41:20,478
they also saw debris the survivor there

9712
06:41:23,910 --> 06:41:22,320
were other bodies that were deceased

9713
06:41:25,750 --> 06:41:23,920
that they also saw as well because i

9714
06:41:28,948 --> 06:41:25,760
confirmed that with mark he

9715
06:41:29,830 --> 06:41:28,958
saw the survivor and

9716
06:41:32,310 --> 06:41:29,840
the

9717
06:41:33,190 --> 06:41:32,320
deceased corpses as well

9718
06:41:35,990 --> 06:41:33,200
uh

9719
06:41:39,190 --> 06:41:36,000
he was described as squiggly he kind of

9720
06:41:42,390 --> 06:41:39,200
had this casper the ghost look oversized

9721
06:41:44,868 --> 06:41:42,400
eyes kind of a uh two little dimples for

9722
06:41:47,110 --> 06:41:44,878
a nose a slit for a mouth hairless three

9723
06:41:49,270 --> 06:41:47,120
and a half to four feet tall and really

9724
06:41:51,670 --> 06:41:49,280
having this squiggly

9725
06:41:54,150 --> 06:41:51,680
uh long arms

9726
06:41:56,628 --> 06:41:54,160
almost

9727
06:41:59,110 --> 06:41:56,638
you could say muscle tone was very weak

9728
06:42:01,510 --> 06:41:59,120
but that's what he described back in

9729
06:42:03,670 --> 06:42:01,520
april 1948. now

9730
06:42:06,468 --> 06:42:03,680
is there any evidence

9731
06:42:07,910 --> 06:42:06,478
to back this up at all is there any

9732
06:42:10,070 --> 06:42:07,920
paperwork well

9733
06:42:12,948 --> 06:42:10,080
mark actually sent me

9734
06:42:16,230 --> 06:42:12,958
his father's documentation for the air

9735
06:42:17,030 --> 06:42:16,240
work college 1947 1940 and it turns out

9736
06:42:18,390 --> 06:42:17,040
yes

9737
06:42:23,510 --> 06:42:18,400
he was there

9738
06:42:25,910 --> 06:42:23,520
university college montgomery uh maxwell

9739
06:42:28,310 --> 06:42:25,920
air force base montgomery alabama we've

9740
06:42:29,750 --> 06:42:28,320
got the date here they talk about the

9741
06:42:32,868 --> 06:42:29,760
seminars

9742
06:42:37,030 --> 06:42:35,030
looking at aliens but it's awesome that

9743
06:42:39,190 --> 06:42:37,040
he has the paperwork back yeah we've got

9744
06:42:42,150 --> 06:42:39,200
the paperwork that he was actually there

9745
06:42:44,070 --> 06:42:42,160
it tells you what room it was in at

9746
06:42:46,628 --> 06:42:44,080
right field at wright-patterson air

9747
06:42:48,468 --> 06:42:46,638
force base what the subject was

9748
06:42:50,390 --> 06:42:48,478
and we'll go down here here's the the

9749
06:42:53,030 --> 06:42:50,400
daily planner here so you got monday

9750
06:42:55,990 --> 06:42:53,040
tuesday wednesday field trip uh to right

9751
06:42:56,708 --> 06:42:56,000
field so this is confirming evidence

9752
06:42:59,670 --> 06:42:56,718
that

9753
06:43:01,670 --> 06:42:59,680
marion mac black magruder was indeed

9754
06:43:04,390 --> 06:43:01,680
there the time that he stated that he

9755
06:43:05,990 --> 06:43:04,400
was there this is pretty much bombshell

9756
06:43:07,590 --> 06:43:06,000
conclusive evidence that they were

9757
06:43:10,230 --> 06:43:07,600
actually there here they even give you

9758
06:43:13,590 --> 06:43:10,240
the names of the people involved some of

9759
06:43:14,788 --> 06:43:13,600
the lecture uh descriptions here this is

9760
06:43:16,390 --> 06:43:14,798
wednesday

9761
06:43:18,070 --> 06:43:16,400
at 10 10

9762
06:43:20,468 --> 06:43:18,080
lecture room number one current

9763
06:43:22,548 --> 06:43:20,478
detectives of air operations

9764
06:43:23,990 --> 06:43:22,558
and we can go through all these we won't

9765
06:43:26,708 --> 06:43:24,000
read them all but

9766
06:43:28,548 --> 06:43:26,718
it's very good evidence now here's mark

9767
06:43:31,270 --> 06:43:28,558
magruder son of world war ii pilot

9768
06:43:34,070 --> 06:43:31,280
marian magruder did a two-hour interview

9769
06:43:34,948 --> 06:43:34,080
with him and here's the kentucky hall of

9770
06:43:38,310 --> 06:43:34,958
fame

9771
06:43:39,750 --> 06:43:38,320
marion milton magruder 1911 to 1997. so

9772
06:43:41,990 --> 06:43:39,760
just to prove that

9773
06:43:44,230 --> 06:43:42,000
i did interview the gentleman he's a

9774
06:43:46,948 --> 06:43:44,240
real person here's some of the medals

9775
06:43:49,430 --> 06:43:46,958
that he received as well

9776
06:43:51,708 --> 06:43:49,440
and then we want to go to this one here

9777
06:43:53,510 --> 06:43:51,718
so this is july 20th

9778
06:43:57,270 --> 06:43:53,520
1969

9779
06:43:58,230 --> 06:43:57,280
neil armstrong is uh this is this buzz

9780
06:44:00,468 --> 06:43:58,240
but

9781
06:44:03,510 --> 06:44:00,478
landing on the moon

9782
06:44:06,150 --> 06:44:03,520
and right between a break in the

9783
06:44:11,830 --> 06:44:09,190
merit magruder another son of marion

9784
06:44:13,910 --> 06:44:11,840
magruder they walk out to the porch

9785
06:44:14,708 --> 06:44:13,920
and the sun turns to the father and said

9786
06:44:16,468 --> 06:44:14,718
you know

9787
06:44:18,468 --> 06:44:16,478
i wonder they're looking at the moon i

9788
06:44:20,150 --> 06:44:18,478
wonder if there's anybody out there i

9789
06:44:22,230 --> 06:44:20,160
wonder if there's any

9790
06:44:25,190 --> 06:44:22,240
other life in the universe

9791
06:44:27,510 --> 06:44:25,200
and uh here's some of the statements

9792
06:44:31,110 --> 06:44:27,520
that were made by marian black mac

9793
06:44:34,150 --> 06:44:31,120
magruder quote i just know i know for

9794
06:44:36,230 --> 06:44:34,160
sure one day you will know we are not

9795
06:44:38,628 --> 06:44:36,240
alone in this universe i can't tell you

9796
06:44:41,350 --> 06:44:38,638
about it now someday maybe i can tell

9797
06:44:44,548 --> 06:44:41,360
you statement to sun merit during apollo

9798
06:44:47,270 --> 06:44:44,558
moonlighting july 20th 1969 then he goes

9799
06:44:49,110 --> 06:44:47,280
here quote i was at the air war college

9800
06:44:51,590 --> 06:44:49,120
when all this happened

9801
06:44:54,070 --> 06:44:51,600
i know all about it i want to see what

9802
06:44:56,390 --> 06:44:54,080
the show is all about then maybe i can

9803
06:44:58,628 --> 06:44:56,400
tell you more my whole class was made

9804
06:45:01,110 --> 06:44:58,638
privy to that information we will watch

9805
06:45:03,510 --> 06:45:01,120
the show i can't talk about it now it's

9806
06:45:05,750 --> 06:45:03,520
top secret we will talk about it once i

9807
06:45:08,788 --> 06:45:05,760
see what they reveal on the show so this

9808
06:45:11,190 --> 06:45:08,798
is statement in 81 or 82 during a

9809
06:45:14,468 --> 06:45:11,200
commercial break for dallas highlighting

9810
06:45:16,868 --> 06:45:14,478
a promo regarding a break uh a break

9811
06:45:19,430 --> 06:45:16,878
documentary on a possible ufo crash in

9812
06:45:22,150 --> 06:45:19,440
roswell during 1947. so yeah here he's

9813
06:45:24,628 --> 06:45:22,160
talking about being there

9814
06:45:27,270 --> 06:45:24,638
and being privy to the information

9815
06:45:30,390 --> 06:45:27,280
let's go on here quote it was not like

9816
06:45:33,670 --> 06:45:30,400
the aliens depicted on tv except for a

9817
06:45:35,910 --> 06:45:33,680
large head instead of gray in color this

9818
06:45:38,390 --> 06:45:35,920
being was more flesh-toned wearing a

9819
06:45:41,190 --> 06:45:38,400
flight suit human-like but not like any

9820
06:45:43,350 --> 06:45:41,200
human being i have ever seen squiggly

9821
06:45:44,468 --> 06:45:43,360
clearly not from this planet he goes on

9822
06:45:47,430 --> 06:45:44,478
here quote

9823
06:45:49,430 --> 06:45:47,440
they were all small in stature so there

9824
06:45:51,910 --> 06:45:49,440
you go right there he used the word they

9825
06:45:54,230 --> 06:45:51,920
so that's more than one humanoid

9826
06:45:56,788 --> 06:45:54,240
somewhat asian looking clearly they were

9827
06:45:58,948 --> 06:45:56,798
not of this world we all knew they were

9828
06:46:01,190 --> 06:45:58,958
not of this world they had extra long

9829
06:46:02,390 --> 06:46:01,200
digits with suction cups at the end of

9830
06:46:05,110 --> 06:46:02,400
their fingers

9831
06:46:07,510 --> 06:46:05,120
their arms were this and long

9832
06:46:10,230 --> 06:46:07,520
out of proportion longer than human

9833
06:46:12,150 --> 06:46:10,240
their elbows were a lot further down

9834
06:46:14,468 --> 06:46:12,160
they were like little children without

9835
06:46:16,468 --> 06:46:14,478
any hair about four feet tall

9836
06:46:18,708 --> 06:46:16,478
they had almond shaped eyes a little

9837
06:46:22,390 --> 06:46:18,718
larger than human the mouth was just a

9838
06:46:24,150 --> 06:46:22,400
small slit not much of a nose no ears

9839
06:46:25,430 --> 06:46:24,160
like some of the drawings

9840
06:46:27,750 --> 06:46:25,440
and then i thought this was very

9841
06:46:30,230 --> 06:46:27,760
interesting quote they all think the

9842
06:46:32,628 --> 06:46:30,240
bodies are at wright-patterson air force

9843
06:46:35,350 --> 06:46:32,638
base but they are at eglin air force

9844
06:46:37,190 --> 06:46:35,360
base in vast underground cold storage

9845
06:46:39,510 --> 06:46:37,200
vaults their statement after watching a

9846
06:46:40,948 --> 06:46:39,520
documentary about roswell so he was

9847
06:46:42,230 --> 06:46:40,958
privy to the fact oh yeah that's

9848
06:46:44,070 --> 06:46:42,240
interesting there was definitely

9849
06:46:45,750 --> 06:46:44,080
something at right field but that's not

9850
06:46:47,990 --> 06:46:45,760
the only location there was something

9851
06:46:50,548 --> 06:46:48,000
going on at eglin air force base with

9852
06:46:52,868 --> 06:46:50,558
bodies and then we've got pretty much

9853
06:46:55,670 --> 06:46:52,878
confirming evidence indicating that

9854
06:46:58,310 --> 06:46:55,680
other repositories for ufo crash

9855
06:47:00,628 --> 06:46:58,320
retrievals and bodies are at the very

9856
06:47:03,190 --> 06:47:00,638
least mcdill air force base tampa

9857
06:47:05,510 --> 06:47:03,200
florida langley air force base virginia

9858
06:47:07,750 --> 06:47:05,520
and homestead air force base florida as

9859
06:47:10,150 --> 06:47:07,760
well so you can see that they spread

9860
06:47:11,670 --> 06:47:10,160
these assets out so they don't have

9861
06:47:12,948 --> 06:47:11,680
single point failure

9862
06:47:14,468 --> 06:47:12,958
what would make sense wasn't it that

9863
06:47:15,670 --> 06:47:14,478
they would first

9864
06:47:18,230 --> 06:47:15,680
when this event happened they would

9865
06:47:19,830 --> 06:47:18,240
first take it to a very secure location

9866
06:47:22,310 --> 06:47:19,840
first before they figure out where the

9867
06:47:24,628 --> 06:47:22,320
final destination is going to be and yes

9868
06:47:25,510 --> 06:47:24,638
spreading it out so that they have you

9869
06:47:28,150 --> 06:47:25,520
know

9870
06:47:31,190 --> 06:47:28,160
they don't lose the uh they don't lose

9871
06:47:32,868 --> 06:47:31,200
the samples of these biological entities

9872
06:47:35,190 --> 06:47:32,878
i would want to spread them out as well

9873
06:47:36,390 --> 06:47:35,200
send one to each if you have five bodies

9874
06:47:38,468 --> 06:47:36,400
send one to

9875
06:47:40,708 --> 06:47:38,478
send send them to five different bases

9876
06:47:42,628 --> 06:47:40,718
so that we preserve them

9877
06:47:44,230 --> 06:47:42,638
and isn't it interesting

9878
06:47:45,590 --> 06:47:44,240
some of them may have went to florida

9879
06:47:47,750 --> 06:47:45,600
because there's isn't there's that

9880
06:47:49,510 --> 06:47:47,760
famous story of jackie gleason

9881
06:47:51,590 --> 06:47:49,520
homestead air force base we've got

9882
06:47:52,788 --> 06:47:51,600
outside air force base yeah he claimed

9883
06:47:54,310 --> 06:47:52,798
that

9884
06:47:55,270 --> 06:47:54,320
jackie gleason claimed to have seen an

9885
06:47:57,670 --> 06:47:55,280
alien

9886
06:47:59,190 --> 06:47:57,680
in an air force base

9887
06:48:00,708 --> 06:47:59,200
and he was so upset he couldn't eat for

9888
06:48:02,390 --> 06:48:00,718
weeks

9889
06:48:04,708 --> 06:48:02,400
he was a changed man he was a changed

9890
06:48:06,948 --> 06:48:04,718
man that's correct that's correct

9891
06:48:09,430 --> 06:48:06,958
all right so then let's go to this uh

9892
06:48:10,868 --> 06:48:09,440
southwest soaring museum so if you go to

9893
06:48:12,708 --> 06:48:10,878
roswell there's a couple ways you can

9894
06:48:15,750 --> 06:48:12,718
get there you can fly into albuquerque

9895
06:48:16,868 --> 06:48:15,760
drive 200 miles or you can fly directly

9896
06:48:19,510 --> 06:48:16,878
into

9897
06:48:22,390 --> 06:48:19,520
the maintenance center the air center at

9898
06:48:25,030 --> 06:48:22,400
roswell and then drive six miles and get

9899
06:48:26,708 --> 06:48:25,040
there so it's a lot easier to go the uh

9900
06:48:27,670 --> 06:48:26,718
shorter route but i took the longer

9901
06:48:29,750 --> 06:48:27,680
route

9902
06:48:31,670 --> 06:48:29,760
and maybe it's good i did because i got

9903
06:48:33,110 --> 06:48:31,680
to the soaring museum

9904
06:48:34,948 --> 06:48:33,120
and i just hit you with a couple

9905
06:48:35,430 --> 06:48:34,958
photographs

9906
06:48:37,590 --> 06:48:35,440
we've here

9907
06:48:39,910 --> 06:48:37,600
we've got some kind of uh tapping going

9908
06:48:42,390 --> 06:48:39,920
on just to be aware of okay somebody in

9909
06:48:44,310 --> 06:48:42,400
the live chat mentioned no problem so

9910
06:48:45,830 --> 06:48:44,320
they've got uh conventional designs

9911
06:48:47,750 --> 06:48:45,840
they've got home built designs they've

9912
06:48:48,948 --> 06:48:47,760
got foreign designs

9913
06:48:51,110 --> 06:48:48,958
and uh

9914
06:48:53,030 --> 06:48:51,120
i was there for about half an hour

9915
06:48:54,948 --> 06:48:53,040
before they closed the guy let me in and

9916
06:48:57,670 --> 06:48:54,958
i just wanted to take a a couple of

9917
06:48:58,628 --> 06:48:57,680
quick pictures here just to document it

9918
06:48:59,830 --> 06:48:58,638
but

9919
06:49:01,830 --> 06:48:59,840
interesting

9920
06:49:05,030 --> 06:49:01,840
that there's a very

9921
06:49:07,190 --> 06:49:05,040
interesting antique auto and toy museum

9922
06:49:09,350 --> 06:49:07,200
literally a thousand feet away from this

9923
06:49:11,830 --> 06:49:09,360
uh sailplane museum

9924
06:49:13,830 --> 06:49:11,840
and they were closing in ten minutes

9925
06:49:15,590 --> 06:49:13,840
and i just said can i look through this

9926
06:49:17,910 --> 06:49:15,600
really quickly i'll be very quick and

9927
06:49:19,270 --> 06:49:17,920
they let me go through i'll take you

9928
06:49:20,948 --> 06:49:19,280
through a couple of the pictures here

9929
06:49:23,270 --> 06:49:20,958
here's some of the toys they had on the

9930
06:49:25,670 --> 06:49:23,280
wall nothing was for sale they had some

9931
06:49:27,590 --> 06:49:25,680
old vintage cars on the interior and

9932
06:49:30,548 --> 06:49:27,600
then they had dozens and dozens and

9933
06:49:33,190 --> 06:49:30,558
dozens of these old rusty hulks model

9934
06:49:35,590 --> 06:49:33,200
t's model a's they have trucks

9935
06:49:38,708 --> 06:49:35,600
some of them probably could be restored

9936
06:49:41,190 --> 06:49:38,718
and so of course uh since i was going to

9937
06:49:43,030 --> 06:49:41,200
roswell i asked this gentleman who was

9938
06:49:44,708 --> 06:49:43,040
kind of the curator here his name was

9939
06:49:46,948 --> 06:49:44,718
archie lewis

9940
06:49:48,548 --> 06:49:46,958
i said well are the rumors true

9941
06:49:50,708 --> 06:49:48,558
and he said what rumors and i said well

9942
06:49:53,670 --> 06:49:50,718
the rumors about roswell what was a

9943
06:49:56,310 --> 06:49:53,680
craft recovered where bodies recovered

9944
06:50:00,468 --> 06:49:56,320
and i got this guy on videotape and what

9945
06:50:02,708 --> 06:50:00,478
he told me is he said in 1947 like on

9946
06:50:04,628 --> 06:50:02,718
the literal same day

9947
06:50:07,350 --> 06:50:04,638
that this event occurred which was the

9948
06:50:10,468 --> 06:50:07,360
night of july 2nd 1947

9949
06:50:13,030 --> 06:50:10,478
his sister now deceased was riding

9950
06:50:15,910 --> 06:50:13,040
horseback with two other friends and

9951
06:50:17,990 --> 06:50:15,920
they were in a van

9952
06:50:20,628 --> 06:50:18,000
new mexico which is about 100 miles

9953
06:50:23,110 --> 06:50:20,638
north of roswell riding horseback and

9954
06:50:26,230 --> 06:50:23,120
all of a sudden the strange craft came

9955
06:50:28,548 --> 06:50:26,240
by them did one complete orbit around

9956
06:50:31,270 --> 06:50:28,558
and then departed and and he said that

9957
06:50:33,670 --> 06:50:31,280
they were shook into their core

9958
06:50:35,510 --> 06:50:33,680
they were absolutely terrified of

9959
06:50:37,270 --> 06:50:35,520
whatever this thing was now

9960
06:50:39,750 --> 06:50:37,280
technically i can't prove it was the

9961
06:50:42,548 --> 06:50:39,760
same crap but it's it's in going in the

9962
06:50:43,430 --> 06:50:42,558
same direction it's the same day

9963
06:50:45,830 --> 06:50:43,440
uh

9964
06:50:48,230 --> 06:50:45,840
they didn't describe it in great detail

9965
06:50:50,708 --> 06:50:48,240
but there's a very high likelihood that

9966
06:50:53,270 --> 06:50:50,718
this was the same crap so we've got

9967
06:50:56,150 --> 06:50:53,280
independent confirmation

9968
06:50:58,070 --> 06:50:56,160
of another ufo which could be the exact

9969
06:51:01,430 --> 06:50:58,080
same craft that crashed

9970
06:51:03,110 --> 06:51:01,440
100 miles north of roswell on its way

9971
06:51:05,110 --> 06:51:03,120
to the crash site

9972
06:51:06,788 --> 06:51:05,120
so it's just an interesting data point

9973
06:51:08,788 --> 06:51:06,798
that i don't think most people have have

9974
06:51:10,708 --> 06:51:08,798
really heard about and again if this is

9975
06:51:11,670 --> 06:51:10,718
a weather balloon how does a weather

9976
06:51:13,990 --> 06:51:11,680
balloon

9977
06:51:16,310 --> 06:51:14,000
make a controlled descent in orbit

9978
06:51:18,948 --> 06:51:16,320
around three girls on horseback that

9979
06:51:20,868 --> 06:51:18,958
doesn't make any sense so just a little

9980
06:51:22,948 --> 06:51:20,878
piece of the puzzle here

9981
06:51:24,548 --> 06:51:22,958
here is the map of van

9982
06:51:26,390 --> 06:51:24,558
and then you can see it's about 100

9983
06:51:28,468 --> 06:51:26,400
miles north of roswell so that just

9984
06:51:30,548 --> 06:51:28,478
gives you a location it was definitely

9985
06:51:34,390 --> 06:51:30,558
heading in the right direction

9986
06:51:36,230 --> 06:51:34,400
okay this is kind of a a quick

9987
06:51:38,390 --> 06:51:36,240
flyer that i put together

9988
06:51:39,990 --> 06:51:38,400
and because i was heading to roswell and

9989
06:51:41,270 --> 06:51:40,000
i thought well why don't i front load

9990
06:51:43,350 --> 06:51:41,280
this thing why don't i try to put

9991
06:51:45,670 --> 06:51:43,360
together a flyer

9992
06:51:48,070 --> 06:51:45,680
uh and i'm gonna send this out to all

9993
06:51:49,190 --> 06:51:48,080
the experimental aircraft association

9994
06:51:51,830 --> 06:51:49,200
chapters

9995
06:51:53,990 --> 06:51:51,840
in the entire state of new mexico so i i

9996
06:51:55,990 --> 06:51:54,000
actually did that i created this flyer

9997
06:51:58,868 --> 06:51:56,000
we'll go over it real quickly here and

9998
06:52:01,110 --> 06:51:58,878
it was in pdf format and i asked them to

9999
06:52:02,468 --> 06:52:01,120
please circulate this

10000
06:52:04,788 --> 06:52:02,478
to your

10001
06:52:06,548 --> 06:52:04,798
eaa chapter members i wanted yes you're

10002
06:52:08,468 --> 06:52:06,558
trying to find some additional witnesses

10003
06:52:09,910 --> 06:52:08,478
right exactly i'm trying to you know we

10004
06:52:12,468 --> 06:52:09,920
we got to take the bull by the horns

10005
06:52:14,230 --> 06:52:12,478
here because if we don't another 75

10006
06:52:15,910 --> 06:52:14,240
years is going to go by and we'll all be

10007
06:52:18,150 --> 06:52:15,920
gone and we'll still not know what

10008
06:52:19,670 --> 06:52:18,160
actually happened here so

10009
06:52:22,390 --> 06:52:19,680
i'm going to rip through this really

10010
06:52:24,708 --> 06:52:22,400
quickly here attention after more than

10011
06:52:26,708 --> 06:52:24,718
75 years the truth can finally be

10012
06:52:29,190 --> 06:52:26,718
revealed regarding what was

10013
06:52:32,548 --> 06:52:29,200
commonly been referred to as the roswell

10014
06:52:35,910 --> 06:52:32,558
incident on the night of july 2nd 1947

10015
06:52:37,510 --> 06:52:35,920
an age-shaped object of unknown origin

10016
06:52:40,310 --> 06:52:37,520
crashed on the foster ranch

10017
06:52:42,230 --> 06:52:40,320
approximately 35 miles northwest of

10018
06:52:44,628 --> 06:52:42,240
roswell

10019
06:52:47,430 --> 06:52:44,638
of new mexico the craft measured

10020
06:52:49,750 --> 06:52:47,440
approximately 13 feet across and had a

10021
06:52:52,868 --> 06:52:49,760
brushed aluminum exterior surface on the

10022
06:52:54,948 --> 06:52:52,878
morning of july 3 local rancher mac

10023
06:52:57,030 --> 06:52:54,958
brazil discovered mysterious debris

10024
06:52:59,110 --> 06:52:57,040
scattered over the ranch the debris

10025
06:53:01,430 --> 06:52:59,120
consisted of hundreds of tin foil

10026
06:53:03,830 --> 06:53:01,440
looking shreds of material that spread

10027
06:53:06,150 --> 06:53:03,840
out like liquid mercury after being

10028
06:53:07,190 --> 06:53:06,160
folded up by hand and released other

10029
06:53:09,350 --> 06:53:07,200
debris

10030
06:53:11,670 --> 06:53:09,360
included extremely thin material that

10031
06:53:14,390 --> 06:53:11,680
could not be cut cannot be burned or

10032
06:53:16,948 --> 06:53:14,400
dented with a 16-pound sledge hammer

10033
06:53:19,270 --> 06:53:16,958
finally multiple small i-beam-shaped

10034
06:53:21,830 --> 06:53:19,280
debris was recovered which included

10035
06:53:23,910 --> 06:53:21,840
strange hieroglyphic writing or symbols

10036
06:53:26,628 --> 06:53:23,920
on the inside wall

10037
06:53:28,788 --> 06:53:26,638
by july 8 military personnel from the

10038
06:53:31,270 --> 06:53:28,798
509th bomb group stationed roswell

10039
06:53:33,590 --> 06:53:31,280
armory airfield arrived on the scene to

10040
06:53:35,590 --> 06:53:33,600
begin the retrieval operation they

10041
06:53:38,150 --> 06:53:35,600
discovered five bodies associated with

10042
06:53:41,590 --> 06:53:38,160
the craft and one was still alive

10043
06:53:44,230 --> 06:53:41,600
by 4 pm on july 8 multiple eyewitnesses

10044
06:53:46,468 --> 06:53:44,240
in roswell observed a military convoy

10045
06:53:49,030 --> 06:53:46,478
traveling down main street heading in

10046
06:53:51,430 --> 06:53:49,040
the direction of the base this convoy

10047
06:53:53,590 --> 06:53:51,440
consisted of multiple jeeps and a lowboy

10048
06:53:55,670 --> 06:53:53,600
tractor trailer which was carrying an

10049
06:53:56,468 --> 06:53:55,680
age-shaped craft concealed by a large

10050
06:53:59,350 --> 06:53:56,478
tarp

10051
06:54:01,830 --> 06:53:59,360
minutes later the convoy arrived at

10052
06:54:03,510 --> 06:54:01,840
hangar p3 building 84 where the

10053
06:54:05,750 --> 06:54:03,520
construction of a large wooden crate

10054
06:54:07,750 --> 06:54:05,760
began the remaining deceased alien

10055
06:54:10,468 --> 06:54:07,760
corpses were carefully placed into

10056
06:54:12,708 --> 06:54:10,478
child-sized caskets and loaded into the

10057
06:54:14,948 --> 06:54:12,718
crate on the morning of july 9th the

10058
06:54:17,350 --> 06:54:14,958
bodies contained within the crate were

10059
06:54:19,350 --> 06:54:17,360
loaded into the bombay of b-29 straight

10060
06:54:21,750 --> 06:54:19,360
flush and subsequently flown to 8th air

10061
06:54:24,150 --> 06:54:21,760
force headquarters fort worth texas

10062
06:54:27,350 --> 06:54:24,160
at least one body was flown

10063
06:54:29,110 --> 06:54:27,360
in a c-54 by pilot oliver pappy

10064
06:54:30,868 --> 06:54:29,120
henderson directly to the air medical

10065
06:54:33,190 --> 06:54:30,878
lab at right field dayton ohio for

10066
06:54:35,830 --> 06:54:33,200
autopsy if you

10067
06:54:37,430 --> 06:54:35,840
or someone you know has had first-hand

10068
06:54:39,910 --> 06:54:37,440
experience dealing with the roswell

10069
06:54:42,150 --> 06:54:39,920
debris crash ufo or extraterrestrial

10070
06:54:44,150 --> 06:54:42,160
bodies please preserve an important part

10071
06:54:46,548 --> 06:54:44,160
of our national history by contacting

10072
06:54:50,628 --> 06:54:46,558
military aerospace historian michael

10073
06:54:52,548 --> 06:54:50,638
shred below okay so i sent all these out

10074
06:54:55,750 --> 06:54:52,558
i waited about a week

10075
06:54:58,310 --> 06:54:55,760
and guess what i got crickets

10076
06:54:59,990 --> 06:54:58,320
i got well but it stands to reason

10077
06:55:03,990 --> 06:55:00,000
because some of the witnesses would be

10078
06:55:06,468 --> 06:55:04,000
95 at this point yeah they are however i

10079
06:55:11,190 --> 06:55:06,478
got one response

10080
06:55:13,430 --> 06:55:11,200
this is from a gentleman who claimed

10081
06:55:16,150 --> 06:55:13,440
that he personally knew

10082
06:55:18,708 --> 06:55:16,160
timothy d proctor

10083
06:55:21,510 --> 06:55:18,718
uh d proctor was working for him he was

10084
06:55:23,750 --> 06:55:21,520
kind of a building contractor and he was

10085
06:55:26,150 --> 06:55:23,760
working so he actually knew

10086
06:55:28,708 --> 06:55:26,160
deep proctor so one of my flyers got to

10087
06:55:30,150 --> 06:55:28,718
this guy and so i called this guy up i

10088
06:55:31,510 --> 06:55:30,160
emailed him i interviewed him on the

10089
06:55:32,948 --> 06:55:31,520
phone twice

10090
06:55:34,468 --> 06:55:32,958
and i'm going to hit you with the

10091
06:55:37,670 --> 06:55:34,478
takeaway here

10092
06:55:40,310 --> 06:55:37,680
witness who knew deep proctor number one

10093
06:55:42,868 --> 06:55:40,320
stated d told him that he had held the

10094
06:55:45,910 --> 06:55:42,878
roswell debris number two mentioned that

10095
06:55:47,910 --> 06:55:45,920
he had seen the bodies the d proctor's

10096
06:55:50,468 --> 06:55:47,920
second body site and number three

10097
06:55:52,230 --> 06:55:50,478
mentioned that dee told him he was not

10098
06:55:53,910 --> 06:55:52,240
threatened by the military but his

10099
06:55:55,990 --> 06:55:53,920
parents were

10100
06:55:57,990 --> 06:55:56,000
and that's what i got out of it it's

10101
06:55:59,750 --> 06:55:58,000
it's not much to go on but this is what

10102
06:56:01,670 --> 06:55:59,760
he told me well still another

10103
06:56:03,350 --> 06:56:01,680
corroborating witness another piece of

10104
06:56:05,350 --> 06:56:03,360
the evidence yes so

10105
06:56:08,468 --> 06:56:05,360
if roswell was nothing more than a

10106
06:56:10,948 --> 06:56:08,478
weather balloon then explain the bodies

10107
06:56:12,628 --> 06:56:10,958
number one and number two explain the

10108
06:56:15,190 --> 06:56:12,638
debris and number three

10109
06:56:16,948 --> 06:56:15,200
explain why the military would threaten

10110
06:56:19,830 --> 06:56:16,958
his family if it was just a weather

10111
06:56:22,150 --> 06:56:19,840
balloon doesn't make any sense

10112
06:56:23,830 --> 06:56:22,160
yeah and explain all of the wit all of

10113
06:56:25,030 --> 06:56:23,840
the all of the other witnesses who

10114
06:56:26,868 --> 06:56:25,040
claimed that they were threatened or

10115
06:56:29,830 --> 06:56:26,878
their families were threatened right

10116
06:56:31,430 --> 06:56:29,840
yeah and the death bed confessions

10117
06:56:33,430 --> 06:56:31,440
of people

10118
06:56:36,070 --> 06:56:33,440
something else you know we're not being

10119
06:56:38,708 --> 06:56:36,080
told here okay so now let's go to

10120
06:56:41,190 --> 06:56:38,718
roswell army airfield hangar p3 building

10121
06:56:44,150 --> 06:56:41,200
84 this is the current roswell air

10122
06:56:47,270 --> 06:56:44,160
center i want to give you some shots of

10123
06:56:49,430 --> 06:56:47,280
the uh the scene of the action here

10124
06:56:51,270 --> 06:56:49,440
uh here's the reverse image of the of

10125
06:56:53,110 --> 06:56:51,280
the hanger itself

10126
06:56:55,430 --> 06:56:53,120
and then i want to take you inside the

10127
06:56:57,350 --> 06:56:55,440
hanger as well so now we're walking up

10128
06:56:59,350 --> 06:56:57,360
into the hanger

10129
06:57:01,350 --> 06:56:59,360
and i i believe i can get you plus or

10130
06:57:02,948 --> 06:57:01,360
minus six inches of to where they

10131
06:57:05,590 --> 06:57:02,958
actually laid the bodies down on the

10132
06:57:07,430 --> 06:57:05,600
floor it's a very interesting vibe you

10133
06:57:09,350 --> 06:57:07,440
get from this place and

10134
06:57:11,750 --> 06:57:09,360
if you make the right connections you

10135
06:57:13,830 --> 06:57:11,760
can make an appointment with the

10136
06:57:15,990 --> 06:57:13,840
uh the director of the maintenance

10137
06:57:17,110 --> 06:57:16,000
center and he'll take you inside the

10138
06:57:19,270 --> 06:57:17,120
hangar and

10139
06:57:21,190 --> 06:57:19,280
drive you around the entire base so now

10140
06:57:21,990 --> 06:57:21,200
we'll go inside this is the location

10141
06:57:24,150 --> 06:57:22,000
here

10142
06:57:27,030 --> 06:57:24,160
and this building he told me was only

10143
06:57:29,430 --> 06:57:27,040
supposed to be there for 10 years

10144
06:57:31,110 --> 06:57:29,440
these are the original rafters

10145
06:57:32,708 --> 06:57:31,120
the original structure they did at a

10146
06:57:34,468 --> 06:57:32,718
notch cut out

10147
06:57:36,548 --> 06:57:34,478
but this building is still in good shape

10148
06:57:40,230 --> 06:57:36,558
after all these years

10149
06:57:42,230 --> 06:57:40,240
the building still stands

10150
06:57:44,310 --> 06:57:42,240
and here's the reverse side of it here

10151
06:57:46,948 --> 06:57:44,320
this would be the area where the uh

10152
06:57:49,190 --> 06:57:46,958
18-wheeler tractor trailer came in

10153
06:57:51,270 --> 06:57:49,200
and then now we're going to where we

10154
06:57:54,070 --> 06:57:51,280
believe the crate was built where the

10155
06:57:56,628 --> 06:57:54,080
caskets were and i want to take you

10156
06:57:57,910 --> 06:57:56,638
this is the location here where we

10157
06:57:59,990 --> 06:57:57,920
believe

10158
06:58:01,990 --> 06:58:00,000
probably plus or minus six feet maybe a

10159
06:58:04,230 --> 06:58:02,000
foot at the most where

10160
06:58:05,750 --> 06:58:04,240
probably four bodies were laid out on

10161
06:58:07,590 --> 06:58:05,760
the floor

10162
06:58:09,750 --> 06:58:07,600
um the survivor

10163
06:58:11,990 --> 06:58:09,760
was kept somewhere else but

10164
06:58:14,548 --> 06:58:12,000
this is the location right here and it's

10165
06:58:16,708 --> 06:58:14,558
it's a strange vibe it kind of gives you

10166
06:58:19,030 --> 06:58:16,718
a sense of history but

10167
06:58:21,110 --> 06:58:19,040
if all things are created and we believe

10168
06:58:23,350 --> 06:58:21,120
that this is the location this is the

10169
06:58:25,830 --> 06:58:23,360
actual position of where the bodies were

10170
06:58:27,830 --> 06:58:25,840
were laid down on the floor now take you

10171
06:58:30,708 --> 06:58:27,840
through kind of the the center here we

10172
06:58:32,548 --> 06:58:30,718
could not find the atomic bomb pits

10173
06:58:34,948 --> 06:58:32,558
where they lowered the crate in uh that

10174
06:58:36,310 --> 06:58:34,958
was paved over so we couldn't find that

10175
06:58:37,830 --> 06:58:36,320
location

10176
06:58:39,510 --> 06:58:37,840
and well with standard reason that they

10177
06:58:41,350 --> 06:58:39,520
would pave over it they don't need those

10178
06:58:42,230 --> 06:58:41,360
pits in order they don't need those

10179
06:58:44,468 --> 06:58:42,240
bombs

10180
06:58:47,190 --> 06:58:44,478
so we could not find those

10181
06:58:49,990 --> 06:58:47,200
but they've got various 747s they've got

10182
06:58:53,670 --> 06:58:50,000
l-1011 they've got dc tens

10183
06:58:55,590 --> 06:58:53,680
in various stages of being scrapped and

10184
06:58:58,390 --> 06:58:55,600
saving some of the components

10185
06:59:02,548 --> 06:58:58,400
here you can see united airlines

10186
06:59:04,468 --> 06:59:02,558
now that takes us to elvis presley

10187
06:59:06,868 --> 06:59:04,478
what what in the world does elvis

10188
06:59:08,788 --> 06:59:06,878
presley had to do with roswell i mean is

10189
06:59:11,430 --> 06:59:08,798
this a joke here what in the world does

10190
06:59:12,788 --> 06:59:11,440
he have to do with anything well turns

10191
06:59:15,190 --> 06:59:12,798
out

10192
06:59:18,548 --> 06:59:15,200
that elvis jet

10193
06:59:20,868 --> 06:59:18,558
is still there i saw this i saw an art i

10194
06:59:23,190 --> 06:59:20,878
saw several articles on this it's sad

10195
06:59:25,190 --> 06:59:23,200
because what a beautiful airplane yeah

10196
06:59:27,030 --> 06:59:25,200
it's still there today i went up and

10197
06:59:30,070 --> 06:59:27,040
touched it it was cold but

10198
06:59:33,670 --> 06:59:30,080
uh the paint is faded it's kind of got

10199
06:59:35,430 --> 06:59:33,680
opaque uh windshields so the tires are

10200
06:59:37,350 --> 06:59:35,440
flat it's got the weeds growing up

10201
06:59:39,990 --> 06:59:37,360
through the cracks it's kind of got this

10202
06:59:42,788 --> 06:59:40,000
ghostly appeal though it does yeah with

10203
06:59:45,110 --> 06:59:42,798
20 30 years of sun of sun you know

10204
06:59:46,708 --> 06:59:45,120
drenched damage oh yeah and raining on

10205
06:59:47,750 --> 06:59:46,718
it we'll probably do that to any

10206
06:59:49,990 --> 06:59:47,760
airplane

10207
06:59:52,868 --> 06:59:50,000
it's sad that they didn't preserve this

10208
06:59:55,030 --> 06:59:52,878
better yep now

10209
06:59:57,190 --> 06:59:55,040
i don't know if it could be salvaged to

10210
06:59:59,270 --> 06:59:57,200
fly again it would take millions but

10211
07:00:02,310 --> 06:59:59,280
it's maybe it's possible depending on

10212
07:00:04,708 --> 07:00:02,320
the structure integrity of the uh the

10213
07:00:06,070 --> 07:00:04,718
spars but uh it's possible and so i

10214
07:00:08,468 --> 07:00:06,080
asked the guy

10215
07:00:09,830 --> 07:00:08,478
what do you think did did elvis know

10216
07:00:12,390 --> 07:00:09,840
anything about it

10217
07:00:15,670 --> 07:00:12,400
and he told me that

10218
07:00:18,230 --> 07:00:15,680
with elvis's international connections

10219
07:00:21,110 --> 07:00:18,240
and his very good friendship

10220
07:00:23,190 --> 07:00:21,120
with richard nixon it's possible

10221
07:00:26,150 --> 07:00:23,200
that elvis knew something about roswell

10222
07:00:28,548 --> 07:00:26,160
but he never admitted to it so i guess

10223
07:00:30,548 --> 07:00:28,558
this question's still out there

10224
07:00:31,990 --> 07:00:30,558
he could know something about it there

10225
07:00:33,750 --> 07:00:32,000
there might be there might have been

10226
07:00:35,430 --> 07:00:33,760
something there that that he knew but he

10227
07:00:37,270 --> 07:00:35,440
certainly never told anybody that we

10228
07:00:39,110 --> 07:00:37,280
know of anyway

10229
07:00:40,868 --> 07:00:39,120
interesting so there's a there's a

10230
07:00:43,670 --> 07:00:40,878
little bit of an elvis connection here

10231
07:00:45,030 --> 07:00:43,680
now if you go to the roswell ufo museum

10232
07:00:47,030 --> 07:00:45,040
and library

10233
07:00:50,548 --> 07:00:47,040
this is a kind of a view inside the

10234
07:00:53,590 --> 07:00:50,558
library and then these are the about 200

10235
07:00:55,190 --> 07:00:53,600
bank boxes of material uh and they also

10236
07:00:57,030 --> 07:00:55,200
have these are kind of the shots here

10237
07:01:00,070 --> 07:00:57,040
it's it's a good they did a really good

10238
07:01:03,430 --> 07:01:00,080
job at organizing this is a first class

10239
07:01:05,270 --> 07:01:03,440
operation here and these carousels have

10240
07:01:06,948 --> 07:01:05,280
some really nice three ring binders and

10241
07:01:08,548 --> 07:01:06,958
i only got through the top of the one on

10242
07:01:10,948 --> 07:01:08,558
the left there's still a lot more

10243
07:01:13,270 --> 07:01:10,958
research to go here so that's just kind

10244
07:01:16,070 --> 07:01:13,280
of a uh

10245
07:01:18,628 --> 07:01:16,080
highlight of the roswell trip now what i

10246
07:01:20,628 --> 07:01:18,638
want to do now steven is i want to

10247
07:01:23,910 --> 07:01:20,638
switch gears here

10248
07:01:26,548 --> 07:01:23,920
and i'm going to go through a couple of

10249
07:01:28,628 --> 07:01:26,558
your desktop is work is worsely

10250
07:01:30,150 --> 07:01:28,638
organized than mine there you go there

10251
07:01:33,190 --> 07:01:30,160
you go

10252
07:01:35,190 --> 07:01:33,200
well let's let's go into this

10253
07:01:37,350 --> 07:01:35,200
final revised

10254
07:01:39,990 --> 07:01:37,360
and i'm just going to run through a

10255
07:01:41,590 --> 07:01:40,000
couple of points here now this is kind

10256
07:01:44,230 --> 07:01:41,600
of uh

10257
07:01:46,708 --> 07:01:44,240
the questions i want to ask here

10258
07:01:48,230 --> 07:01:46,718
okay so i'm going to run through these

10259
07:01:50,708 --> 07:01:48,240
really quickly here

10260
07:01:52,628 --> 07:01:50,718
the roswell why questions this is what

10261
07:01:55,270 --> 07:01:52,638
i've titled this here

10262
07:01:57,350 --> 07:01:55,280
why were official government documents

10263
07:02:00,070 --> 07:01:57,360
relating to roswell army airfield in

10264
07:02:02,230 --> 07:02:00,080
1947 destroyed

10265
07:02:04,468 --> 07:02:02,240
that's interesting all right destroy all

10266
07:02:06,150 --> 07:02:04,478
these documents yeah and i would think i

10267
07:02:07,430 --> 07:02:06,160
would think just the fact that they were

10268
07:02:09,990 --> 07:02:07,440
the only

10269
07:02:12,070 --> 07:02:10,000
military base with nuclear with atomic

10270
07:02:13,990 --> 07:02:12,080
weapons at the time right

10271
07:02:16,070 --> 07:02:14,000
everything should be preserved from that

10272
07:02:20,548 --> 07:02:16,080
for the sake of history

10273
07:02:22,548 --> 07:02:20,558
the alien stuff forget the roswell crash

10274
07:02:25,270 --> 07:02:22,558
just the fact that they the

10275
07:02:27,430 --> 07:02:25,280
that bomb wing was the only

10276
07:02:30,150 --> 07:02:27,440
the only game in town for atomic weapons

10277
07:02:32,628 --> 07:02:30,160
right they dropped uh they dropped the

10278
07:02:35,110 --> 07:02:32,638
the bombs on japan and all that stuff i

10279
07:02:37,990 --> 07:02:35,120
would think every single paper should

10280
07:02:39,670 --> 07:02:38,000
have been preserved for history's sake

10281
07:02:41,990 --> 07:02:39,680
couldn't have said it better myself so

10282
07:02:44,390 --> 07:02:42,000
that includes the teletype messages

10283
07:02:46,070 --> 07:02:44,400
radiographs letters phone records and

10284
07:02:48,070 --> 07:02:46,080
invoice it's all gone where where are

10285
07:02:50,468 --> 07:02:48,080
those documents where are all those

10286
07:02:52,468 --> 07:02:50,478
written letters okay next one

10287
07:02:55,190 --> 07:02:52,478
why were all three letters written by

10288
07:02:57,990 --> 07:02:55,200
stephen schiff to les aspen requesting

10289
07:03:00,788 --> 07:02:58,000
access to all 1947 roswell files

10290
07:03:04,150 --> 07:03:00,798
unanswered he never got a reply

10291
07:03:07,430 --> 07:03:04,160
he did not even get a response

10292
07:03:09,590 --> 07:03:07,440
so that raises a red flag next one why

10293
07:03:11,510 --> 07:03:09,600
would so many death bed confessions by

10294
07:03:14,150 --> 07:03:11,520
both military and civilian witnesses

10295
07:03:16,230 --> 07:03:14,160
describe non-human bodies recovered

10296
07:03:17,990 --> 07:03:16,240
rather than a weather balloon

10297
07:03:19,910 --> 07:03:18,000
not not one of them said that it was a

10298
07:03:22,230 --> 07:03:19,920
weather balloon so i think that's

10299
07:03:24,548 --> 07:03:22,240
interesting if the roswell craft was

10300
07:03:27,350 --> 07:03:24,558
only a weather balloon why did former

10301
07:03:29,510 --> 07:03:27,360
cic operative dro worth combined in

10302
07:03:31,590 --> 07:03:29,520
ricket years after the crash quote

10303
07:03:34,150 --> 07:03:31,600
honest to god they still haven't figured

10304
07:03:36,788 --> 07:03:34,160
out what that stuff is

10305
07:03:38,788 --> 07:03:36,798
end quote if the roswell craft was only

10306
07:03:40,468 --> 07:03:38,798
a weather balloon why would former

10307
07:03:43,270 --> 07:03:40,478
provost marshal

10308
07:03:45,830 --> 07:03:43,280
edwin easley make reference to the

10309
07:03:48,708 --> 07:03:45,840
creatures just before he passed away at

10310
07:03:50,310 --> 07:03:48,718
parkland hospital in dallas texas

10311
07:03:54,150 --> 07:03:50,320
that's interesting

10312
07:03:58,230 --> 07:03:56,628
weather balloon to creatures

10313
07:04:00,070 --> 07:03:58,240
we're talking about something else here

10314
07:04:03,110 --> 07:04:00,080
we can't just be talking about a weather

10315
07:04:05,750 --> 07:04:03,120
balloon why would former cia operator

10316
07:04:07,750 --> 07:04:05,760
claire miller who dispatched the funding

10317
07:04:10,468 --> 07:04:07,760
for the cleanup operation refused to

10318
07:04:12,868 --> 07:04:10,478
talk to cic member lewis rickett years

10319
07:04:14,868 --> 07:04:12,878
after the offend that's interesting

10320
07:04:17,910 --> 07:04:14,878
if the crash was only a weather balloon

10321
07:04:20,628 --> 07:04:17,920
why would sergeant fowlet jr with only

10322
07:04:23,190 --> 07:04:20,638
days to live confide in his daughter

10323
07:04:26,230 --> 07:04:23,200
that he was quote at roswell when they

10324
07:04:28,708 --> 07:04:26,240
recovered the spaceship i was involved

10325
07:04:30,230 --> 07:04:28,718
it's all true end quote

10326
07:04:34,788 --> 07:04:30,240
that's interesting

10327
07:04:36,390 --> 07:04:34,798
tend to

10328
07:04:38,548 --> 07:04:36,400
one of my favorite books on roswell is

10329
07:04:40,788 --> 07:04:38,558
this children of roswell

10330
07:04:42,868 --> 07:04:40,798
because it tells a lot of these deathbed

10331
07:04:44,310 --> 07:04:42,878
confession stories and i just don't see

10332
07:04:45,510 --> 07:04:44,320
people at the end of their life going

10333
07:04:48,628 --> 07:04:45,520
you know what i'm going to do i'm going

10334
07:04:50,310 --> 07:04:48,638
to make up a story about aliens

10335
07:04:53,190 --> 07:04:50,320
and and these people

10336
07:04:55,990 --> 07:04:53,200
verifiedly were stationed there at the

10337
07:04:57,190 --> 07:04:56,000
time you can check you know right it

10338
07:04:58,948 --> 07:04:57,200
makes no sense that they would just

10339
07:05:00,708 --> 07:04:58,958
start making up stories about aliens on

10340
07:05:02,948 --> 07:05:00,718
their death bed and tell their family

10341
07:05:04,948 --> 07:05:02,958
and in some cases that the conversation

10342
07:05:06,628 --> 07:05:04,958
goes like i just want you to know this

10343
07:05:08,150 --> 07:05:06,638
is what happened and this is the truth

10344
07:05:10,150 --> 07:05:08,160
and we're not alone in the universe

10345
07:05:11,910 --> 07:05:10,160
there's other intelligent life out there

10346
07:05:14,070 --> 07:05:11,920
and i know because i've witnessed this

10347
07:05:16,150 --> 07:05:14,080
event that was covered up why would you

10348
07:05:19,030 --> 07:05:16,160
tell your children that on your deathbed

10349
07:05:20,310 --> 07:05:19,040
exactly it makes no sense to me

10350
07:05:23,830 --> 07:05:20,320
i agree

10351
07:05:25,590 --> 07:05:23,840
uh next one here myers juani oh no this

10352
07:05:29,670 --> 07:05:25,600
is where we want to go here uh captain

10353
07:05:32,708 --> 07:05:29,680
darwin e redmuson 718th bomb group

10354
07:05:34,948 --> 07:05:32,718
operations officer on his deathbed told

10355
07:05:36,390 --> 07:05:34,958
family members that the roswell incident

10356
07:05:39,110 --> 07:05:36,400
was true

10357
07:05:42,070 --> 07:05:39,120
and that four bodies were recovered

10358
07:05:44,788 --> 07:05:42,080
meyers wani b-24 liberated pilot in

10359
07:05:47,750 --> 07:05:44,798
world war ii was ordered to roswell army

10360
07:05:49,990 --> 07:05:47,760
airfield to oversee the transport of a

10361
07:05:52,708 --> 07:05:50,000
top-secret item from roswell to fort

10362
07:05:55,190 --> 07:05:52,718
worth by way of a b-29 in the final

10363
07:05:57,670 --> 07:05:55,200
years of his life juani told his

10364
07:05:59,990 --> 07:05:57,680
daughter that the roswell incident was

10365
07:06:02,468 --> 07:06:00,000
real and that he had flown the bodies

10366
07:06:04,548 --> 07:06:02,478
from roswell to fort worth he also

10367
07:06:06,548 --> 07:06:04,558
mentioned that there were three sites

10368
07:06:08,310 --> 07:06:06,558
and told his family quote whatever you

10369
07:06:09,830 --> 07:06:08,320
do don't believe the government it

10370
07:06:13,030 --> 07:06:09,840
really happened

10371
07:06:16,468 --> 07:06:13,040
so now we've got b-29 people talking

10372
07:06:18,468 --> 07:06:16,478
uh b-24 liberator pilots see that that's

10373
07:06:19,670 --> 07:06:18,478
the caliber of witnesses that we want

10374
07:06:22,628 --> 07:06:19,680
here

10375
07:06:24,628 --> 07:06:22,638
next one why would cic captain sheridan

10376
07:06:27,110 --> 07:06:24,638
cabot refuse to talk about the roswell

10377
07:06:29,590 --> 07:06:27,120
events to family members with only days

10378
07:06:31,750 --> 07:06:29,600
to live if it was if what was recovered

10379
07:06:33,590 --> 07:06:31,760
was only a weather balloon if the crash

10380
07:06:36,150 --> 07:06:33,600
at roswell was only a weather balloon

10381
07:06:39,590 --> 07:06:36,160
why would sheridan kevin's csc air force

10382
07:06:41,190 --> 07:06:39,600
osi boss doyle reeves write him a letter

10383
07:06:43,270 --> 07:06:41,200
stating the following

10384
07:06:45,190 --> 07:06:43,280
when you call the press conference to

10385
07:06:46,830 --> 07:06:45,200
tell the world let me know because i

10386
07:06:49,030 --> 07:06:46,840
want to be there that's

10387
07:06:51,670 --> 07:06:49,040
interesting if it was only a weather

10388
07:06:54,628 --> 07:06:51,680
balloon or top secret american or german

10389
07:06:57,350 --> 07:06:54,638
experimental aircraft why could

10390
07:06:59,270 --> 07:06:57,360
why could werner von braun top german

10391
07:07:01,110 --> 07:06:59,280
rocket scientist not identify the

10392
07:07:03,510 --> 07:07:01,120
material when he arrived at the crash

10393
07:07:07,990 --> 07:07:03,520
site if the crash at roswell was only a

10394
07:07:10,868 --> 07:07:08,000
weather balloon why would 390th ass mp

10395
07:07:13,590 --> 07:07:10,878
leroy wallace who helped load the bodies

10396
07:07:16,548 --> 07:07:13,600
at the crash site need to constantly

10397
07:07:18,468 --> 07:07:16,558
bathe and wash his and bathe his hand to

10398
07:07:20,548 --> 07:07:18,478
rid himself of the terrible stench

10399
07:07:23,350 --> 07:07:20,558
that's what we talked about he later

10400
07:07:27,190 --> 07:07:23,360
burned his clothes and burned the ashes

10401
07:07:31,190 --> 07:07:28,948
that's some pretty good evidence that's

10402
07:07:32,948 --> 07:07:31,200
some pretty good uh

10403
07:07:34,150 --> 07:07:32,958
yeah i've heard that before and i found

10404
07:07:36,468 --> 07:07:34,160
that i found that to be pretty

10405
07:07:38,548 --> 07:07:36,478
convincing evidence like well yeah

10406
07:07:41,910 --> 07:07:38,558
there wasn't if if there wasn't this

10407
07:07:43,590 --> 07:07:41,920
intense crazy you know stench and who

10408
07:07:45,590 --> 07:07:43,600
knows what aliens smell like maybe it's

10409
07:07:47,590 --> 07:07:45,600
worse because this they've got some kind

10410
07:07:49,430 --> 07:07:47,600
of different enzymes than us or

10411
07:07:51,030 --> 07:07:49,440
different you know and they're laying

10412
07:07:52,948 --> 07:07:51,040
out there in the desert for five days

10413
07:07:54,230 --> 07:07:52,958
that's gonna wreak

10414
07:07:56,868 --> 07:07:54,240
absolutely

10415
07:07:59,350 --> 07:07:56,878
uh why would the u.s military conduct a

10416
07:08:02,390 --> 07:07:59,360
test flight of a top secret experimental

10417
07:08:03,670 --> 07:08:02,400
aircraft at night during a thunder storm

10418
07:08:05,990 --> 07:08:03,680
lightning storm

10419
07:08:08,230 --> 07:08:06,000
classified aircraft are tested at dry

10420
07:08:10,788 --> 07:08:08,240
lake edwards air force base not near

10421
07:08:12,708 --> 07:08:10,798
roswell army airfield why did special

10422
07:08:14,628 --> 07:08:12,718
unscheduled flights arrive from

10423
07:08:16,948 --> 07:08:14,638
washington dc

10424
07:08:19,190 --> 07:08:16,958
white sands fort bliss and kirkland air

10425
07:08:21,670 --> 07:08:19,200
force base immediately after the debris

10426
07:08:23,750 --> 07:08:21,680
was recovered that's another good one

10427
07:08:25,510 --> 07:08:23,760
don schmidt knows about that very well

10428
07:08:27,510 --> 07:08:25,520
you've got immediately after this

10429
07:08:30,310 --> 07:08:27,520
happened you've got flights coming in

10430
07:08:32,230 --> 07:08:30,320
from washington white sands fort bliss

10431
07:08:36,468 --> 07:08:32,240
kirtland air force base

10432
07:08:41,270 --> 07:08:38,868
why did senator dennis chavez phone

10433
07:08:43,830 --> 07:08:41,280
whitmore senior and advise him to do

10434
07:08:46,230 --> 07:08:43,840
what he was instructed by the fcc to not

10435
07:08:48,310 --> 07:08:46,240
broadcast a wire recorded interview with

10436
07:08:49,910 --> 07:08:48,320
mack russell that's an interesting point

10437
07:08:52,468 --> 07:08:49,920
that we've heard of before

10438
07:08:54,230 --> 07:08:52,478
why was barry goldwater denied access to

10439
07:08:55,670 --> 07:08:54,240
the quote-unquote blue room at

10440
07:08:58,150 --> 07:08:55,680
wright-patterson air force base by

10441
07:09:00,310 --> 07:08:58,160
general curtis lemay that's never

10442
07:09:02,948 --> 07:09:00,320
technically been answered uh let's

10443
07:09:04,948 --> 07:09:02,958
continue here why did mack brazil later

10444
07:09:08,150 --> 07:09:04,958
claim that he found the material on june

10445
07:09:10,390 --> 07:09:08,160
14 and that it consisted of rubber tin

10446
07:09:12,788 --> 07:09:10,400
foil tape and wooden sticks

10447
07:09:15,350 --> 07:09:12,798
why was matt brazil's son paul turned

10448
07:09:17,590 --> 07:09:15,360
away by mps 10 miles from the debris

10449
07:09:19,590 --> 07:09:17,600
field when he attempted to water the

10450
07:09:21,510 --> 07:09:19,600
horses on the ranch

10451
07:09:24,230 --> 07:09:21,520
if the crash was only a weather balloon

10452
07:09:26,948 --> 07:09:24,240
why would lewis rickett ask cabot if the

10453
07:09:29,030 --> 07:09:26,958
material was hot radioactive when he

10454
07:09:31,030 --> 07:09:29,040
traveled to the debris field what do you

10455
07:09:32,708 --> 07:09:31,040
think about that stephen

10456
07:09:34,468 --> 07:09:32,718
would that be

10457
07:09:36,708 --> 07:09:34,478
i i don't understand why a weather

10458
07:09:39,510 --> 07:09:36,718
balloon would have radioactive materials

10459
07:09:42,468 --> 07:09:39,520
included with it or even if it was a

10460
07:09:45,750 --> 07:09:42,478
you know a spy balloon or whatever you

10461
07:09:47,510 --> 07:09:45,760
know uh that makes no sense to me so it

10462
07:09:50,868 --> 07:09:47,520
had to be something more exotic than a

10463
07:09:53,270 --> 07:09:50,878
weather balloon to me right uh why would

10464
07:09:55,270 --> 07:09:53,280
cabot invite master sergeant louis

10465
07:09:57,510 --> 07:09:55,280
rickett to view the debris

10466
07:09:59,430 --> 07:09:57,520
for an independent assessment opinion

10467
07:10:00,868 --> 07:09:59,440
regarding the strange wreckage if it was

10468
07:10:03,190 --> 07:10:00,878
only a weather balloon

10469
07:10:05,670 --> 07:10:03,200
why would the military return to max

10470
07:10:09,590 --> 07:10:05,680
house looking for any remaining debris a

10471
07:10:12,230 --> 07:10:09,600
full two years after the event

10472
07:10:15,430 --> 07:10:12,240
that's a good one why would mac brazil's

10473
07:10:18,230 --> 07:10:15,440
uh storm out of the restaurant in 1959

10474
07:10:20,230 --> 07:10:18,240
after being asked about the 1947 events

10475
07:10:22,548 --> 07:10:20,240
in roswell by a former real estate

10476
07:10:24,468 --> 07:10:22,558
salesman howard skogen

10477
07:10:27,270 --> 07:10:24,478
if the roswell craft was only a weather

10478
07:10:29,350 --> 07:10:27,280
balloon why was sergeant frederick

10479
07:10:31,510 --> 07:10:29,360
benthal ordered to review the background

10480
07:10:33,830 --> 07:10:31,520
files on both robert oppenheimer and

10481
07:10:36,390 --> 07:10:33,840
general curious lemay during his flight

10482
07:10:38,548 --> 07:10:36,400
to roswell in a b-25 for the purpose of

10483
07:10:40,788 --> 07:10:38,558
photographing the bodies

10484
07:10:43,190 --> 07:10:40,798
why would a mortician meet the crew of

10485
07:10:45,350 --> 07:10:43,200
straight flush on the tarmac once it

10486
07:10:47,270 --> 07:10:45,360
landed in fort worth

10487
07:10:50,628 --> 07:10:47,280
that's it yeah and speaking of

10488
07:10:52,548 --> 07:10:50,638
photographing bodies or debris

10489
07:10:54,708 --> 07:10:52,558
isn't it true that they brought in

10490
07:10:56,468 --> 07:10:54,718
outside photographers and wouldn't they

10491
07:10:59,430 --> 07:10:56,478
have their own why would they bring in

10492
07:11:01,350 --> 07:10:59,440
outside photographers from from outside

10493
07:11:02,868 --> 07:11:01,360
of the base that doesn't make any sense

10494
07:11:04,230 --> 07:11:02,878
if it was just a weather balloon you got

10495
07:11:05,670 --> 07:11:04,240
people on the base they're familiar with

10496
07:11:07,590 --> 07:11:05,680
weather balloons

10497
07:11:08,708 --> 07:11:07,600
send them to take the pictures and

10498
07:11:13,030 --> 07:11:08,718
that's not what

10499
07:11:15,910 --> 07:11:13,040
photographers from other bases for some

10500
07:11:17,830 --> 07:11:15,920
reason uh that that sort of checks out

10501
07:11:20,070 --> 07:11:17,840
with a lot of the leonard stringfield

10502
07:11:23,110 --> 07:11:20,080
cases as well where

10503
07:11:25,030 --> 07:11:23,120
uh we have pilots that saw a strange

10504
07:11:27,110 --> 07:11:25,040
movie that was circulated around a

10505
07:11:29,990 --> 07:11:27,120
multiple bases

10506
07:11:33,670 --> 07:11:30,000
where two alien corpses were seen on a

10507
07:11:35,510 --> 07:11:33,680
slab and then the movie just cut off so

10508
07:11:38,310 --> 07:11:35,520
you're talking about motion picture film

10509
07:11:41,030 --> 07:11:38,320
reel photographs absolutely it appears

10510
07:11:43,270 --> 07:11:41,040
that these things were taken

10511
07:11:46,310 --> 07:11:43,280
okay now if the crash was only a weather

10512
07:11:47,990 --> 07:11:46,320
balloon why was corporal william quincy

10513
07:11:50,230 --> 07:11:48,000
ordered to guard overnight a

10514
07:11:52,868 --> 07:11:50,240
tarp-covered atomic bomb pit complete

10515
07:11:55,430 --> 07:11:52,878
with four by five by twelve wooden crate

10516
07:11:57,110 --> 07:11:55,440
b-29 and double row of protective screen

10517
07:11:59,350 --> 07:11:57,120
see that's it

10518
07:12:01,670 --> 07:11:59,360
that just does not add up to being a

10519
07:12:03,590 --> 07:12:01,680
weather balloon uh and we'll just kind

10520
07:12:05,510 --> 07:12:03,600
of wrap it up here if the roswell crash

10521
07:12:08,150 --> 07:12:05,520
was nothing more than a weather balloon

10522
07:12:11,910 --> 07:12:08,160
why would marcel make reference to see

10523
07:12:14,948 --> 07:12:11,920
white rubbery figures at the crash site

10524
07:12:18,310 --> 07:12:14,958
why did tj slowly executive secretary of

10525
07:12:21,830 --> 07:12:18,320
the fcc warn george roberts minority

10526
07:12:24,548 --> 07:12:21,840
owner of kgfl that if

10527
07:12:26,548 --> 07:12:24,558
they they air any portion of brazil's

10528
07:12:29,590 --> 07:12:26,558
previously recorded interview they would

10529
07:12:31,990 --> 07:12:29,600
lose their broadcasting like license

10530
07:12:34,910 --> 07:12:32,000
why would william blanchard roswell army

10531
07:12:37,190 --> 07:12:34,920
interface base commander leave his base

10532
07:12:39,910 --> 07:12:37,200
responsibilities to examine a weather

10533
07:12:41,270 --> 07:12:39,920
balloon there is a good point

10534
07:12:43,670 --> 07:12:41,280
he wouldn't bother

10535
07:12:45,670 --> 07:12:43,680
why was mack brazil abducted by mps

10536
07:12:49,110 --> 07:12:45,680
directly off the roswell downtown

10537
07:12:51,190 --> 07:12:49,120
streets why did brazil uh bill brazel

10538
07:12:53,670 --> 07:12:51,200
mack's son state that his father was

10539
07:12:55,910 --> 07:12:53,680
never the same after the event

10540
07:12:58,070 --> 07:12:55,920
why did csc captain sheridan cabot

10541
07:12:59,670 --> 07:12:58,080
prohibit marcel from gaining access to

10542
07:13:02,150 --> 07:12:59,680
his official report

10543
07:13:04,548 --> 07:13:02,160
if the crash at roswell's was just a

10544
07:13:07,430 --> 07:13:04,558
weather balloon why did sheridan cabot

10545
07:13:09,110 --> 07:13:07,440
slam his fist down on the table and

10546
07:13:11,670 --> 07:13:09,120
storm out of the room during

10547
07:13:14,628 --> 07:13:11,680
thanksgiving dinner decades after the

10548
07:13:16,628 --> 07:13:14,638
event when his son joseph cabot asked

10549
07:13:19,830 --> 07:13:16,638
him what happened to the black box that

10550
07:13:22,548 --> 07:13:19,840
was recovered near the debris field so

10551
07:13:25,350 --> 07:13:22,558
when you put this all together

10552
07:13:26,868 --> 07:13:25,360
it's clear we are not talking about a

10553
07:13:29,110 --> 07:13:26,878
weather balloon here there's something

10554
07:13:31,350 --> 07:13:29,120
else going on yeah i would tend to agree

10555
07:13:33,270 --> 07:13:31,360
with you

10556
07:13:34,948 --> 07:13:33,280
something else going on

10557
07:13:37,430 --> 07:13:34,958
uh okay now

10558
07:13:40,628 --> 07:13:37,440
a couple things that we want to do to be

10559
07:13:42,868 --> 07:13:40,638
neutral here to be completely neutral

10560
07:13:44,708 --> 07:13:42,878
let's look at a couple of other pieces

10561
07:13:47,430 --> 07:13:44,718
of evidence here

10562
07:13:49,030 --> 07:13:47,440
and i've kind of termed this roswell

10563
07:13:51,270 --> 07:13:49,040
part 10

10564
07:13:52,948 --> 07:13:51,280
in a long series that i did called

10565
07:13:55,030 --> 07:13:52,958
roswell revelation

10566
07:13:56,948 --> 07:13:55,040
so in this installment of roswell

10567
07:13:59,110 --> 07:13:56,958
revelation we will closely examine the

10568
07:14:00,070 --> 07:13:59,120
quote-unquote trickle-down technology

10569
07:14:02,070 --> 07:14:00,080
list

10570
07:14:04,230 --> 07:14:02,080
the following breakthrough technologies

10571
07:14:07,350 --> 07:14:04,240
were allegedly a direct result of the

10572
07:14:09,830 --> 07:14:07,360
roswell crash of 1947 so here's the list

10573
07:14:12,788 --> 07:14:09,840
number one image intensifiers number two

10574
07:14:15,750 --> 07:14:12,798
fiber optics number three super tenacity

10575
07:14:18,150 --> 07:14:15,760
fibers number four lasers number five

10576
07:14:20,868 --> 07:14:18,160
molecular alignment metallic alloys

10577
07:14:23,910 --> 07:14:20,878
number six integrated circuits number

10578
07:14:26,868 --> 07:14:23,920
seven heart number eight project horizon

10579
07:14:29,270 --> 07:14:26,878
number nine portable atomic generators

10580
07:14:31,910 --> 07:14:29,280
number ten irradiated food

10581
07:14:35,110 --> 07:14:31,920
number 11 third brain guidance systems

10582
07:14:38,150 --> 07:14:35,120
ebe headbands number 12 particle beams

10583
07:14:41,430 --> 07:14:38,160
star wars anti-missile energy weapons

10584
07:14:43,830 --> 07:14:41,440
13 electromagnetic propulsion systems 14

10585
07:14:45,990 --> 07:14:43,840
depleted uranium projectiles and number

10586
07:14:47,510 --> 07:14:46,000
15 velcro

10587
07:14:49,670 --> 07:14:47,520
so

10588
07:14:51,750 --> 07:14:49,680
however were these breakthroughs really

10589
07:14:54,310 --> 07:14:51,760
the product of reverse engineering and

10590
07:14:58,390 --> 07:14:54,320
alien spacecraft or did they have a more

10591
07:15:00,948 --> 07:14:58,400
earthly antecedent prior to so if we

10592
07:15:03,110 --> 07:15:00,958
look at the breakdown here

10593
07:15:06,468 --> 07:15:03,120
let's talk let's look at the first one

10594
07:15:08,230 --> 07:15:06,478
night vision we've got dr v k zorkin

10595
07:15:10,390 --> 07:15:08,240
father of night vision

10596
07:15:13,990 --> 07:15:10,400
night visions and infrared systems were

10597
07:15:16,628 --> 07:15:14,000
used on german panther takes prior to

10598
07:15:20,070 --> 07:15:16,638
roswell 1947 they were actually employed

10599
07:15:22,310 --> 07:15:20,080
in 1943 four years before the roswell

10600
07:15:24,868 --> 07:15:22,320
incident

10601
07:15:26,548 --> 07:15:24,878
so we need to address that that's

10602
07:15:27,750 --> 07:15:26,558
something that has to be looked at next

10603
07:15:29,510 --> 07:15:27,760
week

10604
07:15:31,750 --> 07:15:29,520
michael these claims of technology

10605
07:15:33,030 --> 07:15:31,760
derived from the roswell crash i've

10606
07:15:34,310 --> 07:15:33,040
never believed because i've

10607
07:15:35,750 --> 07:15:34,320
independently

10608
07:15:37,910 --> 07:15:35,760
it looks like you've done some of the

10609
07:15:39,510 --> 07:15:37,920
same work that i did i independently

10610
07:15:41,110 --> 07:15:39,520
looked into right

10611
07:15:42,948 --> 07:15:41,120
what i found is most of these

10612
07:15:44,788 --> 07:15:42,958
technologies either already existed or

10613
07:15:47,190 --> 07:15:44,798
they're well on their way to becoming

10614
07:15:50,310 --> 07:15:47,200
reality before or

10615
07:15:51,110 --> 07:15:50,320
nearly after the roswell event i know i

10616
07:15:55,510 --> 07:15:51,120
know

10617
07:15:58,788 --> 07:15:55,520
but we can't deny it even if it's

10618
07:16:00,230 --> 07:15:58,798
unpopular we still have to examine

10619
07:16:02,468 --> 07:16:00,240
counterpoints

10620
07:16:04,390 --> 07:16:02,478
because we have to be neutral we have

10621
07:16:07,708 --> 07:16:04,400
absolutely have to be neutral

10622
07:16:11,270 --> 07:16:07,718
uh we look at fiber optics

10623
07:16:13,910 --> 07:16:11,280
1884 illustration of a quote light pipe

10624
07:16:16,788 --> 07:16:13,920
by alexander graham bell so the the

10625
07:16:19,270 --> 07:16:16,798
beginning workings of fiber optics date

10626
07:16:22,070 --> 07:16:19,280
back to 1884. here's the

10627
07:16:23,030 --> 07:16:22,080
photo phone they talk about this 1842

10628
07:16:25,190 --> 07:16:23,040
interesting

10629
07:16:26,948 --> 07:16:25,200
you got it further back than me then

10630
07:16:30,310 --> 07:16:26,958
okay

10631
07:16:32,708 --> 07:16:30,320
we've got lasers here roof weeder row

10632
07:16:35,430 --> 07:16:32,718
and this is the document here quote

10633
07:16:37,270 --> 07:16:35,440
cascade principle described in document

10634
07:16:39,990 --> 07:16:37,280
german document

10635
07:16:42,390 --> 07:16:40,000
as far back as 1917

10636
07:16:45,110 --> 07:16:42,400
uh they studied studies in germany in

10637
07:16:47,990 --> 07:16:45,120
the late 1920s they they go into the

10638
07:16:50,468 --> 07:16:48,000
historical legacy of the

10639
07:16:52,788 --> 07:16:50,478
cascade principle which is a which is

10640
07:16:54,788 --> 07:16:52,798
the forerunner to the laser so they were

10641
07:16:56,468 --> 07:16:54,798
already looking at this

10642
07:16:59,910 --> 07:16:56,478
very early on

10643
07:17:03,430 --> 07:16:59,920
uh transistor and integrated circuits

10644
07:17:06,070 --> 07:17:03,440
german clyston tube 1940 to 1941 and

10645
07:17:07,430 --> 07:17:06,080
then photographs of german semiconductor

10646
07:17:10,468 --> 07:17:07,440
chips

10647
07:17:12,788 --> 07:17:10,478
this predates roswell by six years

10648
07:17:14,150 --> 07:17:12,798
they already had these tubes and

10649
07:17:17,510 --> 07:17:14,160
beginning the workings of the

10650
07:17:19,030 --> 07:17:17,520
semiconductor chips prior to roswell so

10651
07:17:21,510 --> 07:17:19,040
to be fair

10652
07:17:22,628 --> 07:17:21,520
we have to look at this other evidence

10653
07:17:24,628 --> 07:17:22,638
as well

10654
07:17:25,990 --> 07:17:24,638
and then one other quick point want to

10655
07:17:27,190 --> 07:17:26,000
look at as well

10656
07:17:29,990 --> 07:17:27,200
is

10657
07:17:31,030 --> 07:17:30,000
i have a i have a source who i will not

10658
07:17:33,750 --> 07:17:31,040
name

10659
07:17:35,910 --> 07:17:33,760
but i will give you his word for word

10660
07:17:39,270 --> 07:17:35,920
description now he he believes he knows

10661
07:17:42,310 --> 07:17:39,280
exactly what the roswell incident was it

10662
07:17:46,070 --> 07:17:42,320
was a quote-unquote stovepipe operation

10663
07:17:47,830 --> 07:17:46,080
to ferret out german spies that's his

10664
07:17:49,430 --> 07:17:47,840
impression of it now these are direct

10665
07:17:50,628 --> 07:17:49,440
statements i won't name them but this is

10666
07:17:53,510 --> 07:17:50,638
what he said

10667
07:17:56,150 --> 07:17:53,520
roswell this info was so successful at

10668
07:17:57,670 --> 07:17:56,160
smoking out spies and molds that eight

10669
07:17:59,430 --> 07:17:57,680
months after hearing that u.s

10670
07:18:02,150 --> 07:17:59,440
intelligence found their spies the

10671
07:18:03,910 --> 07:18:02,160
soviets created their own alien crash

10672
07:18:06,788 --> 07:18:03,920
the following year to do the same

10673
07:18:09,030 --> 07:18:06,798
because they feared u.s spies

10674
07:18:11,590 --> 07:18:09,040
then i asked him i go well how many he

10675
07:18:12,628 --> 07:18:11,600
said 12 were made three were used as

10676
07:18:14,628 --> 07:18:12,638
wreckage

10677
07:18:16,788 --> 07:18:14,638
eight to nine were using hangers as

10678
07:18:17,910 --> 07:18:16,798
props to test military intel and

10679
07:18:21,030 --> 07:18:17,920
scientists

10680
07:18:23,750 --> 07:18:21,040
all were props incapable of flying they

10681
07:18:25,670 --> 07:18:23,760
sat in hangars and were moved around so

10682
07:18:27,750 --> 07:18:25,680
that personnel and satellites in

10683
07:18:28,628 --> 07:18:27,760
subsequent years thought they were

10684
07:18:31,030 --> 07:18:28,638
moving

10685
07:18:33,190 --> 07:18:31,040
since positions daily that the text is a

10686
07:18:34,628 --> 07:18:33,200
little choppy here tested different

10687
07:18:36,590 --> 07:18:34,638
incoming shifts

10688
07:18:38,788 --> 07:18:36,600
we built those stovepipe is a

10689
07:18:39,750 --> 07:18:38,798
counterintelligence technique it's a

10690
07:18:41,990 --> 07:18:39,760
term

10691
07:18:44,628 --> 07:18:42,000
the craft were not called that the

10692
07:18:47,110 --> 07:18:44,638
detachment would use the fake models to

10693
07:18:48,548 --> 07:18:47,120
test incoming guys to where intel

10694
07:18:52,310 --> 07:18:48,558
flushed out at

10695
07:18:55,270 --> 07:18:52,320
back then it was cia or back before then

10696
07:18:57,750 --> 07:18:55,280
it was cia they used the oss which was

10697
07:19:00,388 --> 07:18:57,760
the office of strategic services would

10698
07:19:02,070 --> 07:19:00,398
have used a group called detachment 101

10699
07:19:03,030 --> 07:19:02,080
this is the group that allegedly built

10700
07:19:04,468 --> 07:19:03,040
these

10701
07:19:06,468 --> 07:19:04,478
mock-ups

10702
07:19:08,548 --> 07:19:06,478
and quote-unquote crashed them

10703
07:19:10,548 --> 07:19:08,558
when the war department was in charge of

10704
07:19:13,430 --> 07:19:10,558
everything they started a foreign

10705
07:19:16,628 --> 07:19:13,440
intelligent group called detachment 101

10706
07:19:18,628 --> 07:19:16,638
so when the oss started they already uh

10707
07:19:20,948 --> 07:19:18,638
was these guys already experienced in

10708
07:19:23,590 --> 07:19:20,958
foreign affairs and special activities

10709
07:19:26,468 --> 07:19:23,600
no laws and definitions back then was

10710
07:19:28,388 --> 07:19:26,478
the wild wild west of intelligence so

10711
07:19:31,110 --> 07:19:28,398
that's according to this source he

10712
07:19:33,430 --> 07:19:31,120
believes it was a stove piping operation

10713
07:19:35,510 --> 07:19:33,440
to smoke out german spies

10714
07:19:37,670 --> 07:19:35,520
and that's kind of the counter points i

10715
07:19:39,590 --> 07:19:37,680
wanted to bring up

10716
07:19:41,270 --> 07:19:39,600
interesting i've never heard of this you

10717
07:19:43,270 --> 07:19:41,280
know i've heard the annie jacobson

10718
07:19:44,310 --> 07:19:43,280
explanation which i don't find credible

10719
07:19:46,388 --> 07:19:44,320
at all

10720
07:19:47,590 --> 07:19:46,398
because her so-called witness told her

10721
07:19:49,350 --> 07:19:47,600
one thing

10722
07:19:51,350 --> 07:19:49,360
happened at roswell

10723
07:19:54,628 --> 07:19:51,360
with this uh you know

10724
07:19:56,388 --> 07:19:54,638
fake uh you know they back they uh

10725
07:19:57,510 --> 07:19:56,398
apparently according to annie jacobson's

10726
07:19:59,670 --> 07:19:57,520
witness they

10727
07:20:01,590 --> 07:19:59,680
you know did some kind of surgery or

10728
07:20:03,430 --> 07:20:01,600
already deformed children or something

10729
07:20:05,830 --> 07:20:03,440
like that and then crashed it on purpose

10730
07:20:07,350 --> 07:20:05,840
to scare us or whatever and he told

10731
07:20:10,410 --> 07:20:07,360
george knapp an entirely different

10732
07:20:12,468 --> 07:20:10,420
explanation of what happened at roswell

10733
07:20:15,030 --> 07:20:12,478
[Music]

10734
07:20:17,750 --> 07:20:15,040
let's see if i can get back to uh where

10735
07:20:19,430 --> 07:20:17,760
we're at here uh let's see here

10736
07:20:20,868 --> 07:20:19,440
can i get back to

10737
07:20:22,548 --> 07:20:20,878
to you here

10738
07:20:24,708 --> 07:20:22,558
um oh do you want me to stop the screen

10739
07:20:27,430 --> 07:20:24,718
here and stop sharing at this point yeah

10740
07:20:29,190 --> 07:20:27,440
see now looking at looking at his

10741
07:20:31,830 --> 07:20:29,200
information

10742
07:20:34,788 --> 07:20:31,840
doesn't technically jive with what we

10743
07:20:37,590 --> 07:20:34,798
know about the bodies the the b-29

10744
07:20:40,868 --> 07:20:37,600
flights the the crates

10745
07:20:43,350 --> 07:20:40,878
see how do we factor all that in uh the

10746
07:20:45,830 --> 07:20:43,360
the stench of the bodies the b-29

10747
07:20:48,788 --> 07:20:45,840
flights so it's still kind of a mystery

10748
07:20:50,628 --> 07:20:48,798
because even his counterpoints don't

10749
07:20:53,190 --> 07:20:50,638
technically jive with what we know about

10750
07:20:55,270 --> 07:20:53,200
marion blackmac magruder so again

10751
07:20:57,110 --> 07:20:55,280
we're back to this thing about these

10752
07:20:59,430 --> 07:20:57,120
bodies again how do we

10753
07:21:01,830 --> 07:20:59,440
how do we actually describe

10754
07:21:04,230 --> 07:21:01,840
and account for the bodies

10755
07:21:05,990 --> 07:21:04,240
if they were making a mock-up

10756
07:21:08,468 --> 07:21:06,000
this is something that i'm sure would be

10757
07:21:10,548 --> 07:21:08,478
bent by a 16-pound sledgehammer but yet

10758
07:21:12,070 --> 07:21:10,558
the witnesses said that the debris could

10759
07:21:15,110 --> 07:21:12,080
not be dental with a 16-pound

10760
07:21:17,110 --> 07:21:15,120
sledgehammer so even the counterpoints

10761
07:21:19,430 --> 07:21:17,120
seem to kind of fall apart and we're

10762
07:21:20,948 --> 07:21:19,440
back to this going back to the original

10763
07:21:23,750 --> 07:21:20,958
witnesses again

10764
07:21:25,590 --> 07:21:23,760
yeah and and the most popular narrative

10765
07:21:27,990 --> 07:21:25,600
which is the narrative that it was an

10766
07:21:31,030 --> 07:21:28,000
alien spacecraft and bodies were

10767
07:21:33,350 --> 07:21:31,040
recovered and that the debris was

10768
07:21:34,230 --> 07:21:33,360
otherworldly therefore couldn't be

10769
07:21:36,388 --> 07:21:34,240
cut

10770
07:21:39,030 --> 07:21:36,398
smashed whatever

10771
07:21:40,468 --> 07:21:39,040
and and interesting i i did have a

10772
07:21:41,830 --> 07:21:40,478
question from the live chat that i

10773
07:21:43,750 --> 07:21:41,840
thought was interesting and since you're

10774
07:21:46,070 --> 07:21:43,760
an aircraft historian i thought you're

10775
07:21:47,590 --> 07:21:46,080
the perfect person to answer this and i

10776
07:21:49,590 --> 07:21:47,600
suppose they know that that's why

10777
07:21:52,388 --> 07:21:49,600
they're asking so

10778
07:21:55,590 --> 07:21:53,750
patrick sheehan

10779
07:21:58,310 --> 07:21:55,600
asks please ask michael about the

10780
07:22:01,750 --> 07:21:58,320
possible possibility that the roswell

10781
07:22:02,708 --> 07:22:01,760
incident involved us navy top secret x5u

10782
07:22:05,910 --> 07:22:02,718
program

10783
07:22:08,468 --> 07:22:05,920
it was supposedly canceled in 1947

10784
07:22:11,110 --> 07:22:08,478
called the flying flapjack early scale

10785
07:22:13,430 --> 07:22:11,120
prototype was flown by lindbergh

10786
07:22:15,270 --> 07:22:13,440
yes yeah that's

10787
07:22:17,510 --> 07:22:15,280
and we're talking about some of the

10788
07:22:20,468 --> 07:22:17,520
things that were done by zimmerman the

10789
07:22:21,270 --> 07:22:20,478
flying flapjack the other one which had

10790
07:22:34,230 --> 07:22:21,280
the

10791
07:22:36,548 --> 07:22:34,240
mechanism was too sophisticated and so

10792
07:22:38,628 --> 07:22:36,558
they never flew it but uh

10793
07:22:40,708 --> 07:22:38,638
jack pickett is of the belief that there

10794
07:22:43,510 --> 07:22:40,718
were jet powered

10795
07:22:45,190 --> 07:22:43,520
us air force jet flying wing aircraft

10796
07:22:47,270 --> 07:22:45,200
but since this is 47 that would have

10797
07:22:48,868 --> 07:22:47,280
been very early on very early i'm just

10798
07:22:51,270 --> 07:22:48,878
going to show a picture for people very

10799
07:22:53,110 --> 07:22:51,280
interesting airplane and i like weird uh

10800
07:22:54,868 --> 07:22:53,120
you know airplanes like this it's just

10801
07:22:57,270 --> 07:22:54,878
it's a nice it's a nice aircraft but

10802
07:23:00,628 --> 07:22:57,280
that that plane was never flown it was a

10803
07:23:01,910 --> 07:23:00,638
cool design though yeah sure

10804
07:23:03,990 --> 07:23:01,920
definitely a cool design so you don't

10805
07:23:06,868 --> 07:23:04,000
think this had anything to do with rods

10806
07:23:08,868 --> 07:23:06,878
it was not it was not this one

10807
07:23:10,388 --> 07:23:08,878
and one of my other questions for you

10808
07:23:12,150 --> 07:23:10,398
would be um

10809
07:23:14,548 --> 07:23:12,160
what do you think of some people believe

10810
07:23:16,868 --> 07:23:14,558
that the russian fly or excuse me the

10811
07:23:18,708 --> 07:23:16,878
german flying wing aircraft that was

10812
07:23:20,788 --> 07:23:18,718
recovered may have had something to do

10813
07:23:23,030 --> 07:23:20,798
with roswell like maybe they reproduced

10814
07:23:25,030 --> 07:23:23,040
it they were doing tests and that's what

10815
07:23:27,750 --> 07:23:25,040
crashed

10816
07:23:30,150 --> 07:23:27,760
yeah i know that uh

10817
07:23:32,628 --> 07:23:30,160
don schmidt had gone down that road and

10818
07:23:35,110 --> 07:23:32,638
he's absolutely convinced it has nothing

10819
07:23:37,590 --> 07:23:35,120
to do with a horton 229 because now

10820
07:23:39,430 --> 07:23:37,600
you've got jet engines you've got rivets

10821
07:23:41,590 --> 07:23:39,440
you've got uh sort of a composite

10822
07:23:43,350 --> 07:23:41,600
aircraft construction there were no

10823
07:23:44,868 --> 07:23:43,360
rivets whatever they described and you

10824
07:23:46,070 --> 07:23:44,878
know we can even go back to the black

10825
07:23:49,110 --> 07:23:46,080
box

10826
07:23:51,270 --> 07:23:49,120
that black dock was completely seamless

10827
07:23:53,350 --> 07:23:51,280
so there were no rivets

10828
07:23:55,910 --> 07:23:53,360
there were no fasteners probably weren't

10829
07:23:58,468 --> 07:23:55,920
any weld marks and that has to be

10830
07:24:02,628 --> 07:23:58,478
explained if this was a mock-up if this

10831
07:24:05,350 --> 07:24:02,638
was a a fake crash built by oss

10832
07:24:07,270 --> 07:24:05,360
to to ferret out german spies then how

10833
07:24:09,430 --> 07:24:07,280
do you account for this black box that

10834
07:24:11,670 --> 07:24:09,440
was recovered how do you account for the

10835
07:24:14,388 --> 07:24:11,680
fuse glass that they found indicative of

10836
07:24:16,788 --> 07:24:14,398
high heat so there's a lot more going on

10837
07:24:19,110 --> 07:24:16,798
here and i'm going to remain neutral i'm

10838
07:24:21,830 --> 07:24:19,120
not going to jump on you plus or minus

10839
07:24:24,230 --> 07:24:21,840
i'm going to continue doing the research

10840
07:24:26,468 --> 07:24:24,240
and wherever the truth leads whether

10841
07:24:28,388 --> 07:24:26,478
it's unpopular it's inconvenient i'm

10842
07:24:30,948 --> 07:24:28,398
going to go with that

10843
07:24:32,788 --> 07:24:30,958
well i i appreciate that you uh are open

10844
07:24:33,830 --> 07:24:32,798
to all the possibilities too when you

10845
07:24:35,510 --> 07:24:33,840
don't just

10846
07:24:38,150 --> 07:24:35,520
you know i've seen some people just

10847
07:24:39,990 --> 07:24:38,160
reject evidence because it doesn't fit

10848
07:24:41,910 --> 07:24:40,000
what they believe and and i don't think

10849
07:24:44,468 --> 07:24:41,920
that's the right way to go about it i

10850
07:24:47,030 --> 07:24:44,478
think we should accept all of this

10851
07:24:48,868 --> 07:24:47,040
you know accept all of the uh

10852
07:24:51,590 --> 07:24:48,878
all of the information and i want to

10853
07:24:54,230 --> 07:24:51,600
thank lord ludacris who said uh

10854
07:24:56,628 --> 07:24:54,240
of michael schrad he said uh the very

10855
07:24:57,430 --> 07:24:56,638
best person to close the amazing series

10856
07:24:59,910 --> 07:24:57,440
out

10857
07:25:01,990 --> 07:24:59,920
uh the roswell series is one of my

10858
07:25:03,990 --> 07:25:02,000
favorite things you have done stephen

10859
07:25:05,990 --> 07:25:04,000
and michael i love your work and passion

10860
07:25:07,910 --> 07:25:06,000
so thank you lord ludacris

10861
07:25:09,750 --> 07:25:07,920
uh for your kind do you got a little bit

10862
07:25:11,910 --> 07:25:09,760
of time we can take if somebody has any

10863
07:25:14,628 --> 07:25:11,920
questions for you in the live chat

10864
07:25:17,430 --> 07:25:14,638
yeah see whatever the truth ultimately

10865
07:25:20,070 --> 07:25:17,440
comes out about roswell it has to answer

10866
07:25:22,548 --> 07:25:20,080
all the questions it can't answer some

10867
07:25:25,510 --> 07:25:22,558
it has to answer all it has to answer

10868
07:25:28,388 --> 07:25:25,520
the degree it has to answer the

10869
07:25:29,990 --> 07:25:28,398
bodies it has to answer for all the yeah

10870
07:25:32,230 --> 07:25:30,000
the only explanation the government

10871
07:25:34,388 --> 07:25:32,240
provided for the bodies was some kind of

10872
07:25:35,910 --> 07:25:34,398
you know tests high altitude tests where

10873
07:25:38,310 --> 07:25:35,920
they were dropping

10874
07:25:40,388 --> 07:25:38,320
mannequins and that doesn't right that

10875
07:25:42,230 --> 07:25:40,398
doesn't work because that didn't happen

10876
07:25:44,310 --> 07:25:42,240
until years later first of all and

10877
07:25:46,070 --> 07:25:44,320
second of all those were six foot tall

10878
07:25:47,590 --> 07:25:46,080
mannequins that doesn't explain the

10879
07:25:49,350 --> 07:25:47,600
bodies at all

10880
07:25:50,788 --> 07:25:49,360
but according to some skeptics well it

10881
07:25:52,230 --> 07:25:50,798
was just mannequins

10882
07:25:53,590 --> 07:25:52,240
you know they were testing things they

10883
07:25:55,910 --> 07:25:53,600
dropped a bunch of mannequins out of

10884
07:25:58,070 --> 07:25:55,920
planes high altitude testing or

10885
07:26:00,948 --> 07:25:58,080
parachute testing or whatever

10886
07:26:02,788 --> 07:26:00,958
that explanation to me is is about as

10887
07:26:06,468 --> 07:26:02,798
credible as you know the swamp gas

10888
07:26:09,190 --> 07:26:06,478
explanation for some ufos just doesn't

10889
07:26:11,030 --> 07:26:09,200
it doesn't add up to me a 5 foot 10 to

10890
07:26:13,750 --> 07:26:11,040
six foot two

10891
07:26:15,910 --> 07:26:13,760
wooden crashed test dummy would not fit

10892
07:26:18,948 --> 07:26:15,920
in a child sized casket ain't going to

10893
07:26:21,750 --> 07:26:18,958
work that's that's another one as well

10894
07:26:22,868 --> 07:26:21,760
so now that the 75th anniversary is

10895
07:26:24,548 --> 07:26:22,878
coming up

10896
07:26:26,708 --> 07:26:24,558
do you know they're doing some special

10897
07:26:28,388 --> 07:26:26,718
events for that as well for the 75th

10898
07:26:29,830 --> 07:26:28,398
anniversary

10899
07:26:31,110 --> 07:26:29,840
um

10900
07:26:33,510 --> 07:26:31,120
to me it's just

10901
07:26:35,030 --> 07:26:33,520
this is the 75th anniversary of a great

10902
07:26:37,590 --> 07:26:35,040
great mystery do you think that we'll

10903
07:26:40,230 --> 07:26:37,600
ever get a definitive answer or that

10904
07:26:42,948 --> 07:26:40,240
this mystery will be ever solved

10905
07:26:44,788 --> 07:26:42,958
very good question without the physical

10906
07:26:47,430 --> 07:26:44,798
evidence we are just going to be

10907
07:26:49,830 --> 07:26:47,440
spinning our wheels that's it

10908
07:26:53,190 --> 07:26:49,840
without that physical evidence it's just

10909
07:26:55,190 --> 07:26:53,200
going to be another one of these legends

10910
07:26:57,670 --> 07:26:55,200
and that's why i think that the leonard

10911
07:27:00,788 --> 07:26:57,680
stringfield crash retrieval witnesses

10912
07:27:02,948 --> 07:27:00,798
are so important because it does

10913
07:27:06,070 --> 07:27:02,958
provide corroborating evidence for the

10914
07:27:07,990 --> 07:27:06,080
roswell incident because he's got about

10915
07:27:10,868 --> 07:27:08,000
119

10916
07:27:13,350 --> 07:27:10,878
retrieval cases within his seven status

10917
07:27:15,590 --> 07:27:13,360
reports that's about two inches thick

10918
07:27:17,830 --> 07:27:15,600
now can we rule some of them out

10919
07:27:20,708 --> 07:27:17,840
absolutely some of them are overlapping

10920
07:27:21,830 --> 07:27:20,718
no problem some of them are hoaxes no

10921
07:27:23,990 --> 07:27:21,840
problem

10922
07:27:25,830 --> 07:27:24,000
so let's just let's take 20 off the

10923
07:27:28,230 --> 07:27:25,840
batch right there let's let's go from

10924
07:27:31,670 --> 07:27:28,240
119 let's just go down to 100

10925
07:27:34,150 --> 07:27:31,680
conservatively conservatively so it's

10926
07:27:36,628 --> 07:27:34,160
like the odds are a hundred to one all

10927
07:27:39,110 --> 07:27:36,638
we need is one to be correct that's all

10928
07:27:42,070 --> 07:27:39,120
we need so if you took those odds to

10929
07:27:44,070 --> 07:27:42,080
vegas and you went to the roulette wheel

10930
07:27:47,030 --> 07:27:44,080
and there were like a hundred spots

10931
07:27:48,548 --> 07:27:47,040
there and you bet on 99 of them you're

10932
07:27:51,110 --> 07:27:48,558
going to win you're going to win every

10933
07:27:53,510 --> 07:27:51,120
single uh yeah that's good the odds are

10934
07:27:54,548 --> 07:27:53,520
in our favor all we need is one to be

10935
07:27:56,150 --> 07:27:54,558
correct

10936
07:27:58,388 --> 07:27:56,160
yeah we have an excellent question from

10937
07:28:00,150 --> 07:27:58,398
number six uh is michael coming out with

10938
07:28:03,190 --> 07:28:00,160
a printed art book

10939
07:28:04,548 --> 07:28:03,200
well i think my dark files book is my

10940
07:28:06,948 --> 07:28:04,558
printed art book

10941
07:28:09,030 --> 07:28:06,958
yes well but at first that was an ebook

10942
07:28:10,628 --> 07:28:09,040
i've just now learned that you've got it

10943
07:28:12,868 --> 07:28:10,638
you've got a printed version available

10944
07:28:14,310 --> 07:28:12,878
it's available on amazon right and it's

10945
07:28:16,788 --> 07:28:14,320
printed all right i'm a terrible show

10946
07:28:18,868 --> 07:28:16,798
host i will put the link to your amazon

10947
07:28:21,910 --> 07:28:18,878
book in the description of the video you

10948
07:28:25,750 --> 07:28:21,920
can just search on amazon for dark files

10949
07:28:29,670 --> 07:28:27,670
and i got to tell you that i'm so glad

10950
07:28:32,150 --> 07:28:29,680
that you did a printed art book because

10951
07:28:33,830 --> 07:28:32,160
i i like ebooks but i really like to

10952
07:28:36,070 --> 07:28:33,840
have the physical book i like i heard i

10953
07:28:39,110 --> 07:28:36,080
like a book i can hold you know

10954
07:28:41,750 --> 07:28:39,120
yeah yeah absolutely and pix is here

10955
07:28:44,150 --> 07:28:41,760
surprisingly not arguing with me tonight

10956
07:28:45,990 --> 07:28:44,160
uh and and he says michael are there any

10957
07:28:48,628 --> 07:28:46,000
aspects of the story you would venture

10958
07:28:51,590 --> 07:28:48,638
to assert as true i think

10959
07:28:53,990 --> 07:28:51,600
i i would take the the word of the uh

10960
07:28:56,628 --> 07:28:54,000
world war ii pilots like marion black

10961
07:28:59,910 --> 07:28:56,638
magma i would i would bank on that when

10962
07:29:01,830 --> 07:28:59,920
he talks about things being uh pulled at

10963
07:29:04,070 --> 07:29:01,840
over to langley air force base other

10964
07:29:05,430 --> 07:29:04,080
locations other than right better that

10965
07:29:07,750 --> 07:29:05,440
checks out with some of the things that

10966
07:29:10,548 --> 07:29:07,760
leonard springfield had talked about so

10967
07:29:13,830 --> 07:29:10,558
when coming from a world war ii pilot

10968
07:29:15,350 --> 07:29:13,840
that has no dog in this race you know

10969
07:29:17,670 --> 07:29:15,360
he's just talking about what he

10970
07:29:19,350 --> 07:29:17,680
experienced plus we've got his records

10971
07:29:22,548 --> 07:29:19,360
proving he was there

10972
07:29:24,310 --> 07:29:22,558
so i like to bank on his statements

10973
07:29:25,910 --> 07:29:24,320
yeah and i'm not aware that you were

10974
07:29:27,830 --> 07:29:25,920
working on a lazar project but

10975
07:29:29,030 --> 07:29:27,840
somebody's asking when the lazar report

10976
07:29:31,430 --> 07:29:29,040
is coming

10977
07:29:33,190 --> 07:29:31,440
report came out been out years ago right

10978
07:29:35,030 --> 07:29:33,200
it came out ten years ago

10979
07:29:37,670 --> 07:29:35,040
yeah and uh i don't know if you're aware

10980
07:29:39,990 --> 07:29:37,680
michael but we have had uh on the record

10981
07:29:42,310 --> 07:29:40,000
sources from los alamos we talked about

10982
07:29:43,190 --> 07:29:42,320
this off air but just to informa that

10983
07:29:45,350 --> 07:29:43,200
that

10984
07:29:47,190 --> 07:29:45,360
you know his bosses at los alamos have

10985
07:29:48,948 --> 07:29:47,200
now been found and they gave on the

10986
07:29:51,270 --> 07:29:48,958
record statement saying that bob lazar

10987
07:29:53,830 --> 07:29:51,280
was never a scientist at los alamos he

10988
07:29:55,350 --> 07:29:53,840
was a low-level electronics technician

10989
07:29:58,708 --> 07:29:55,360
and we've also got on the record

10990
07:30:00,548 --> 07:29:58,718
interview with an area 51 security guard

10991
07:30:03,030 --> 07:30:00,558
who claims that bob lazar never stepped

10992
07:30:04,868 --> 07:30:03,040
foot on the base you did such a good job

10993
07:30:07,430 --> 07:30:04,878
on that i know well it wasn't my work

10994
07:30:09,190 --> 07:30:07,440
but i was able to find people who did

10995
07:30:11,110 --> 07:30:09,200
that work and allow me to and they came

10996
07:30:12,310 --> 07:30:11,120
here and helped me to share it because

10997
07:30:15,030 --> 07:30:12,320
if you don't have a little bigger

10998
07:30:17,270 --> 07:30:15,040
bullhorn you know the question i have is

10999
07:30:21,030 --> 07:30:17,280
if that story is true

11000
07:30:25,350 --> 07:30:21,040
why have we not heard of even one

11001
07:30:27,750 --> 07:30:25,360
test pilot who flew out of that facility

11002
07:30:31,270 --> 07:30:27,760
stating that they saw a remote working

11003
07:30:33,830 --> 07:30:31,280
facility at papoose lake s4 not one test

11004
07:30:35,910 --> 07:30:33,840
pilot has ever come forward that was

11005
07:30:37,430 --> 07:30:35,920
stationed there and flew there prior to

11006
07:30:40,310 --> 07:30:37,440
and afterward we don't have the

11007
07:30:42,230 --> 07:30:40,320
testimony of even one test pilot stating

11008
07:30:44,150 --> 07:30:42,240
that there is an active

11009
07:30:45,510 --> 07:30:44,160
facility built into the side of the

11010
07:30:47,350 --> 07:30:45,520
mountain

11011
07:30:49,510 --> 07:30:47,360
not one has ever come forward yeah and

11012
07:30:50,788 --> 07:30:49,520
that area 51 security guard also said

11013
07:30:52,150 --> 07:30:50,798
that he'd been all over the base

11014
07:30:53,830 --> 07:30:52,160
including papoose lake and there's

11015
07:30:55,830 --> 07:30:53,840
nothing there that bob lazar described

11016
07:30:57,350 --> 07:30:55,840
no roads no guard shack

11017
07:30:59,110 --> 07:30:57,360
no hangers in the mountain and he was

11018
07:31:00,150 --> 07:30:59,120
right next you know he drove right next

11019
07:31:02,548 --> 07:31:00,160
to that

11020
07:31:04,788 --> 07:31:02,558
and we have member fraps app who says uh

11021
07:31:07,190 --> 07:31:04,798
with a great question i'd like to ask mr

11022
07:31:09,110 --> 07:31:07,200
schrat about the black and white film

11023
07:31:11,350 --> 07:31:09,120
showing supposed flight panel with

11024
07:31:13,030 --> 07:31:11,360
identification shaped like hands with

11025
07:31:15,510 --> 07:31:13,040
six fingers and the three fingers

11026
07:31:17,670 --> 07:31:15,520
description of the ebe i think you're

11027
07:31:19,910 --> 07:31:17,680
referring to the alien autopsy film that

11028
07:31:21,830 --> 07:31:19,920
came out decades ago i was just it's a

11029
07:31:23,830 --> 07:31:21,840
tiny portion but people have cut that

11030
07:31:25,910 --> 07:31:23,840
out and re-uploaded it so i don't i

11031
07:31:27,910 --> 07:31:25,920
don't think that is credible fraps i

11032
07:31:29,350 --> 07:31:27,920
think i would agree with you stephen i

11033
07:31:31,350 --> 07:31:29,360
would agree thank you for being a member

11034
07:31:33,030 --> 07:31:31,360
of fraps app and thank you for your

11035
07:31:34,628 --> 07:31:33,040
excellent question and i want to remind

11036
07:31:36,388 --> 07:31:34,638
our viewers that we're a viewer support

11037
07:31:38,868 --> 07:31:36,398
show you can now become a member or you

11038
07:31:41,190 --> 07:31:38,878
can join our patreon and either of those

11039
07:31:43,510 --> 07:31:41,200
two things you get all of the extra

11040
07:31:44,868 --> 07:31:43,520
goodies so i've now finally figured it

11041
07:31:46,708 --> 07:31:44,878
out and if you're a youtube channel

11042
07:31:49,030 --> 07:31:46,718
member you get all the patreon benefits

11043
07:31:51,190 --> 07:31:49,040
as well so thanks to our kind and

11044
07:31:52,628 --> 07:31:51,200
generous benefactors michael people all

11045
07:31:56,948 --> 07:31:52,638
over the world are sending me money to

11046
07:31:59,670 --> 07:31:57,750
yeah

11047
07:32:01,110 --> 07:31:59,680
and mark toronto with a great question

11048
07:32:02,868 --> 07:32:01,120
who says if this debris was

11049
07:32:05,430 --> 07:32:02,878
indestructible how large must the

11050
07:32:07,110 --> 07:32:05,440
explosion have been to create it i know

11051
07:32:09,190 --> 07:32:07,120
uh don schmidt had questioned that too

11052
07:32:12,070 --> 07:32:09,200
and his answer to that is

11053
07:32:14,468 --> 07:32:12,080
we we don't know exactly how or why it

11054
07:32:16,628 --> 07:32:14,478
crashed but the lightning that may have

11055
07:32:18,150 --> 07:32:16,638
struck it during the electrical storm

11056
07:32:19,750 --> 07:32:18,160
exceeded the tensile strength of the

11057
07:32:21,030 --> 07:32:19,760
material

11058
07:32:22,388 --> 07:32:21,040
so that makes some possibilities you

11059
07:32:24,070 --> 07:32:22,398
know a lot of people are very critical

11060
07:32:25,910 --> 07:32:24,080
saying they came all the way here from

11061
07:32:27,830 --> 07:32:25,920
another world but they somehow crashed

11062
07:32:29,430 --> 07:32:27,840
when they got here but i would argue

11063
07:32:31,190 --> 07:32:29,440
that all machines

11064
07:32:33,510 --> 07:32:31,200
fail and the more complicated the

11065
07:32:34,310 --> 07:32:33,520
machine the more likelihood of failure

11066
07:32:35,830 --> 07:32:34,320
so

11067
07:32:37,750 --> 07:32:35,840
you know i get that argument though

11068
07:32:40,388 --> 07:32:37,760
right michael like they came from you

11069
07:32:42,948 --> 07:32:40,398
know 20 light years away and then they

11070
07:32:45,590 --> 07:32:42,958
crashed but atmospheric flying and

11071
07:32:47,830 --> 07:32:45,600
flying in space is two different things

11072
07:32:49,990 --> 07:32:47,840
you know i i can't really explain why it

11073
07:32:52,070 --> 07:32:50,000
crashed most people have said that this

11074
07:32:53,750 --> 07:32:52,080
huge lightning storm may have interfered

11075
07:32:56,388 --> 07:32:53,760
with their propulsion system or their

11076
07:32:59,030 --> 07:32:56,398
guidance system or whatever

11077
07:33:01,270 --> 07:32:59,040
or or an experimental radar system an

11078
07:33:03,990 --> 07:33:01,280
experimental high power radar could have

11079
07:33:05,670 --> 07:33:04,000
been involved which is what allegedly

11080
07:33:07,750 --> 07:33:05,680
took down the kingman thing because that

11081
07:33:09,030 --> 07:33:07,760
was a soft landing that was not a crash

11082
07:33:11,430 --> 07:33:09,040
retrieval

11083
07:33:13,110 --> 07:33:11,440
and it really boils down to the crash

11084
07:33:15,270 --> 07:33:13,120
retrievals that's why i think that

11085
07:33:17,910 --> 07:33:15,280
leonard springfield got closer than any

11086
07:33:21,270 --> 07:33:17,920
of us had ever gotten because he

11087
07:33:23,430 --> 07:33:21,280
interviewed the firsthand witnesses that

11088
07:33:26,548 --> 07:33:23,440
were on the retrieval teams recovering

11089
07:33:27,510 --> 07:33:26,558
the craft the debris the bodies so we've

11090
07:33:29,510 --> 07:33:27,520
got

11091
07:33:32,548 --> 07:33:29,520
air traffic controllers astronauts

11092
07:33:34,468 --> 07:33:32,558
cosmonauts uh high-level military bras

11093
07:33:37,030 --> 07:33:34,478
who were on these retrieval teams could

11094
07:33:39,350 --> 07:33:37,040
they all be lying could they all really

11095
07:33:41,430 --> 07:33:39,360
be lying yeah that's a very good point

11096
07:33:43,430 --> 07:33:41,440
unknowns unknown center has a good point

11097
07:33:45,750 --> 07:33:43,440
strange no one got sick from handling

11098
07:33:48,230 --> 07:33:45,760
biological aliens i'm sure maybe they

11099
07:33:49,910 --> 07:33:48,240
had gloves and masks or something right

11100
07:33:51,110 --> 07:33:49,920
they wouldn't have just picked the right

11101
07:33:53,190 --> 07:33:51,120
i don't think they would just pick them

11102
07:33:54,548 --> 07:33:53,200
up with their bare hands and

11103
07:33:56,310 --> 07:33:54,558
yeah because they're getting this very

11104
07:33:59,110 --> 07:33:56,320
least it was

11105
07:34:00,708 --> 07:33:59,120
no it was a nauseous smell being next to

11106
07:34:05,270 --> 07:34:00,718
those bodies

11107
07:34:05,280 --> 07:34:09,590
yeah yeah

11108
07:34:13,350 --> 07:34:11,270
yeah and anybody with any questions for

11109
07:34:15,590 --> 07:34:13,360
michael please put them in all caps that

11110
07:34:16,868 --> 07:34:15,600
makes it much easier for me to know so

11111
07:34:18,548 --> 07:34:16,878
but i think we're going to wrap things

11112
07:34:20,868 --> 07:34:18,558
up here michael i'm going to throw you

11113
07:34:22,628 --> 07:34:20,878
out but we are going to take a musical

11114
07:34:24,388 --> 07:34:22,638
break and then i'm going to return for

11115
07:34:25,830 --> 07:34:24,398
some other show business that i can cut

11116
07:34:28,230 --> 07:34:25,840
out of this later

11117
07:34:30,948 --> 07:34:28,240
but i certainly want to thank you for

11118
07:34:33,030 --> 07:34:30,958
coming here and shedding some more light

11119
07:34:35,270 --> 07:34:33,040
and you have brought us new and

11120
07:34:36,548 --> 07:34:35,280
interesting witnesses that no one else

11121
07:34:39,110 --> 07:34:36,558
had

11122
07:34:40,708 --> 07:34:39,120
and and new insight into this great

11123
07:34:43,030 --> 07:34:40,718
mystery

11124
07:34:45,030 --> 07:34:43,040
thank you stephen i appreciate it

11125
07:34:58,708 --> 07:34:45,040
yeah you are welcome here anytime my

11126
07:35:03,990 --> 07:35:01,270
the government's explanation into what

11127
07:35:05,990 --> 07:35:04,000
happened at roswell in my view is

11128
07:35:09,830 --> 07:35:06,000
laughable at best

11129
07:35:12,388 --> 07:35:09,840
first published in 1997 the air force

11130
07:35:15,670 --> 07:35:12,398
published their findings

11131
07:35:17,910 --> 07:35:15,680
called the roswell report case closed

11132
07:35:20,548 --> 07:35:17,920
and in their report a very skeptical

11133
07:35:23,110 --> 07:35:20,558
report i might add they completely and

11134
07:35:25,430 --> 07:35:23,120
totally dismissed almost all the witness

11135
07:35:28,070 --> 07:35:25,440
testimony they made whack-a-doo

11136
07:35:30,628 --> 07:35:28,080
explanations for what really happened

11137
07:35:32,310 --> 07:35:30,638
conflating people seeing alien bodies

11138
07:35:34,070 --> 07:35:32,320
with some kind of

11139
07:35:36,150 --> 07:35:34,080
top secret

11140
07:35:38,310 --> 07:35:36,160
high altitude tests where they were

11141
07:35:41,030 --> 07:35:38,320
dropping dummies from high altitude

11142
07:35:43,670 --> 07:35:41,040
balloons

11143
07:35:47,430 --> 07:35:43,680
and importantly

11144
07:35:48,468 --> 07:35:47,440
those tests didn't occur until 1953

11145
07:35:50,948 --> 07:35:48,478
some

11146
07:35:53,110 --> 07:35:50,958
years after the event

11147
07:35:55,110 --> 07:35:53,120
in 1947

11148
07:35:57,270 --> 07:35:55,120
the air force offers no explanation

11149
07:36:00,310 --> 07:35:57,280
other than to say that people conflated

11150
07:36:01,350 --> 07:36:00,320
times and dates and different events

11151
07:36:03,590 --> 07:36:01,360
somehow

11152
07:36:06,310 --> 07:36:03,600
i'm not buying it

11153
07:36:08,548 --> 07:36:06,320
i believe that the air force

11154
07:36:11,910 --> 07:36:08,558
largely tried to explain away all the

11155
07:36:14,468 --> 07:36:11,920
evidence ignored an incredible amount of

11156
07:36:16,948 --> 07:36:14,478
eyewitness testimony or simply tried to

11157
07:36:19,030 --> 07:36:16,958
explain it away with no justification

11158
07:36:21,590 --> 07:36:19,040
for explaining it away

11159
07:36:23,430 --> 07:36:21,600
this government explanation roswell

11160
07:36:27,590 --> 07:36:23,440
report case closed

11161
07:36:30,310 --> 07:36:27,600
i believe is laughable in its attempt to

11162
07:36:32,628 --> 07:36:30,320
explain away what happened

11163
07:36:34,310 --> 07:36:32,638
in roswell

11164
07:36:37,910 --> 07:36:34,320
in 1947.

11165
07:36:40,230 --> 07:36:37,920
i also found a laughable video

11166
07:36:43,030 --> 07:36:40,240
explaining away the entire roswell

11167
07:36:45,910 --> 07:36:43,040
mystery that was put together

11168
07:36:48,150 --> 07:36:45,920
by government sources in order to

11169
07:36:51,030 --> 07:36:48,160
let the public know that roswell was

11170
07:36:54,070 --> 07:36:51,040
nothing special just a weather balloon

11171
07:36:55,430 --> 07:36:54,080
i don't buy it friends but i'm

11172
07:36:58,070 --> 07:36:55,440
presenting

11173
07:37:00,948 --> 07:36:58,080
their explanation here in our roswell

11174
07:37:02,628 --> 07:37:00,958
deep dive for the purposes of education

11175
07:37:04,788 --> 07:37:02,638
and history

11176
07:37:07,430 --> 07:37:04,798
you decide is the government being

11177
07:37:08,468 --> 07:37:07,440
truthful here or are they trying to

11178
07:37:21,700 --> 07:37:08,478
continue

11179
07:37:21,710 --> 07:37:28,548
[Music]

11180
07:37:33,830 --> 07:37:31,510
an event popularly known as the roswell

11181
07:37:36,070 --> 07:37:33,840
incident has recently been the subject

11182
07:37:38,388 --> 07:37:36,080
of intense interest by both the media

11183
07:37:41,350 --> 07:37:38,398
and a curious general public

11184
07:37:43,910 --> 07:37:41,360
in recent years numerous speculative

11185
07:37:47,670 --> 07:37:43,920
books magazine articles television

11186
07:37:50,868 --> 07:37:47,680
programs a made-for-tv movie two ufo

11187
07:37:53,510 --> 07:37:50,878
museums fraudulent documents and even an

11188
07:37:55,510 --> 07:37:53,520
alien autopsy film have emerged to

11189
07:37:58,468 --> 07:37:55,520
exploit the media fascination with the

11190
07:38:00,708 --> 07:37:58,478
roswell incident

11191
07:38:01,910 --> 07:38:00,718
the story has even gained international

11192
07:38:03,910 --> 07:38:01,920
attention

11193
07:38:06,230 --> 07:38:03,920
despite the vested interest and

11194
07:38:08,788 --> 07:38:06,240
questionable credibility of all sources

11195
07:38:11,270 --> 07:38:08,798
involved in generating the media hype

11196
07:38:14,230 --> 07:38:11,280
the u.s air force is routinely accused

11197
07:38:16,788 --> 07:38:14,240
of concealing a deep dark secret from

11198
07:38:19,430 --> 07:38:16,798
the american people

11199
07:38:21,270 --> 07:38:19,440
in early 1994 new mexico congressman

11200
07:38:23,270 --> 07:38:21,280
stephen schiff requested the general

11201
07:38:24,548 --> 07:38:23,280
accounting office initiate a records

11202
07:38:29,590 --> 07:38:24,558
review

11203
07:38:32,150 --> 07:38:29,600
determine if the u.s air force or any

11204
07:38:34,628 --> 07:38:32,160
other u.s government agency possessed

11205
07:38:38,670 --> 07:38:34,638
information on an alleged crash near

11206
07:38:41,430 --> 07:38:38,680
roswell new mexico in july 1947 of an

11207
07:38:42,948 --> 07:38:41,440
extraterrestrial vehicle and its alien

11208
07:38:45,350 --> 07:38:42,958
crew

11209
07:38:47,510 --> 07:38:45,360
in response to the gao probe the

11210
07:38:49,990 --> 07:38:47,520
secretary of the air force directed a

11211
07:38:52,150 --> 07:38:50,000
comprehensive search for records the

11212
07:38:54,468 --> 07:38:52,160
objective of this search was to tell the

11213
07:38:57,110 --> 07:38:54,478
congress and the american people what

11214
07:38:58,868 --> 07:38:57,120
the air force knew about the 1947

11215
07:39:00,948 --> 07:38:58,878
roswell claims

11216
07:39:03,830 --> 07:39:00,958
if the information was still classified

11217
07:39:05,670 --> 07:39:03,840
it was to be declassified if active or

11218
07:39:07,830 --> 07:39:05,680
former air force officials had signed

11219
07:39:10,868 --> 07:39:07,840
non-disclosure agreements they were to

11220
07:39:13,270 --> 07:39:10,878
be released from these agreements

11221
07:39:15,910 --> 07:39:13,280
the resulting 800 page report was

11222
07:39:17,430 --> 07:39:15,920
completed in july 1994.

11223
07:39:19,670 --> 07:39:17,440
the report concluded that the

11224
07:39:22,230 --> 07:39:19,680
predecessor to the u.s air force the u.s

11225
07:39:25,430 --> 07:39:22,240
army air forces did recover material

11226
07:39:27,510 --> 07:39:25,440
near roswell in july 1947.

11227
07:39:29,590 --> 07:39:27,520
what was recovered was not the remains

11228
07:39:32,388 --> 07:39:29,600
of an extraterrestrial spacecraft and

11229
07:39:34,948 --> 07:39:32,398
its alien crew but debris from a then

11230
07:39:37,990 --> 07:39:34,958
classified army air force's research

11231
07:39:40,070 --> 07:39:38,000
project codenamed mogul

11232
07:39:42,788 --> 07:39:40,080
begun in 1946

11233
07:39:45,590 --> 07:39:42,798
project mogul was a top-secret attempt

11234
07:39:47,830 --> 07:39:45,600
to acoustically detect suspected soviet

11235
07:39:48,948 --> 07:39:47,840
nuclear explosions and ballistic missile

11236
07:39:50,868 --> 07:39:48,958
launches

11237
07:39:53,510 --> 07:39:50,878
the project was accorded the highest

11238
07:39:55,670 --> 07:39:53,520
priority because it addressed the most

11239
07:39:56,628 --> 07:39:55,680
important post-war national defense

11240
07:39:59,030 --> 07:39:56,638
concern

11241
07:40:02,070 --> 07:39:59,040
development of an early warning system

11242
07:40:04,310 --> 07:40:02,080
to prevent a devastating surprise attack

11243
07:40:06,868 --> 07:40:04,320
mogul used an odd assortment of naval

11244
07:40:09,830 --> 07:40:06,878
acoustical sensors radar reflecting

11245
07:40:11,750 --> 07:40:09,840
targets nylon fibers and other equipment

11246
07:40:14,548 --> 07:40:11,760
carried aloft by a train of weather

11247
07:40:16,788 --> 07:40:14,558
balloons extending over 600 feet

11248
07:40:19,868 --> 07:40:16,798
claims that the u.s army air forces

11249
07:40:23,150 --> 07:40:19,878
recovered a flying disc near roswell in

11250
07:40:25,990 --> 07:40:23,160
1947 were based primarily on a

11251
07:40:28,070 --> 07:40:26,000
misidentification of the radar targets a

11252
07:40:30,628 --> 07:40:28,080
standard element of weather equipment

11253
07:40:32,388 --> 07:40:30,638
adapted for use on the long mogul

11254
07:40:35,990 --> 07:40:32,398
balloon train

11255
07:40:38,788 --> 07:40:36,000
in june 1947 the oddly constructed radar

11256
07:40:40,948 --> 07:40:38,798
targets were found by a local rancher

11257
07:40:42,468 --> 07:40:40,958
who later reported the equipment as a

11258
07:40:44,628 --> 07:40:42,478
flying disc

11259
07:40:47,670 --> 07:40:44,638
following some initial confusion at

11260
07:40:50,708 --> 07:40:47,680
roswell army airfield the flying disc

11261
07:40:51,670 --> 07:40:50,718
debris aluminum foil rubber paper and

11262
07:40:53,590 --> 07:40:51,680
sticks

11263
07:40:56,070 --> 07:40:53,600
was identified by army air force

11264
07:40:58,230 --> 07:40:56,080
officials as remnants of radar targets

11265
07:41:00,388 --> 07:40:58,240
and weather balloons

11266
07:41:02,708 --> 07:41:00,398
with the positive identification by the

11267
07:41:05,350 --> 07:41:02,718
army air forces of the debris recovered

11268
07:41:08,628 --> 07:41:05,360
by the rancher events that occurred in

11269
07:41:13,350 --> 07:41:08,638
1947 were officially resolved and

11270
07:41:18,230 --> 07:41:15,750
initially the roswell incident consisted

11271
07:41:19,750 --> 07:41:18,240
only of accounts of the recovery of a

11272
07:41:22,628 --> 07:41:19,760
flying disk

11273
07:41:24,548 --> 07:41:22,638
in 1947 there were no claims of alien

11274
07:41:26,388 --> 07:41:24,558
bodies associated with the roswell

11275
07:41:28,628 --> 07:41:26,398
incident

11276
07:41:30,628 --> 07:41:28,638
the recovery of alien bodies became part

11277
07:41:33,430 --> 07:41:30,638
of the roswell story during the late

11278
07:41:36,388 --> 07:41:33,440
1970s with other claims being made in

11279
07:41:38,628 --> 07:41:36,398
the 1980s and 1990s

11280
07:41:41,270 --> 07:41:38,638
these later day revisions to the roswell

11281
07:41:43,190 --> 07:41:41,280
story were often based on anecdotal

11282
07:41:46,310 --> 07:41:43,200
accounts from second and third hand

11283
07:41:50,070 --> 07:41:46,320
witnesses collected by ufo enthusiasts

11284
07:41:52,388 --> 07:41:50,080
40 or more years after the actual event

11285
07:41:53,830 --> 07:41:52,398
the same anecdotal accounts that refer

11286
07:41:55,910 --> 07:41:53,840
to bodies

11287
07:41:58,388 --> 07:41:55,920
also described large-scale field

11288
07:42:00,548 --> 07:41:58,398
operations conducted by u.s military

11289
07:42:02,628 --> 07:42:00,558
personnel using an assortment of

11290
07:42:05,510 --> 07:42:02,638
military vehicles and aircraft to

11291
07:42:07,910 --> 07:42:05,520
recover crashed debris supposedly from

11292
07:42:10,788 --> 07:42:07,920
an extraterrestrial spaceship

11293
07:42:13,510 --> 07:42:10,798
military personnel were allegedly led by

11294
07:42:15,270 --> 07:42:13,520
an angry red-headed captain

11295
07:42:17,430 --> 07:42:15,280
threatening those who witnessed the

11296
07:42:19,910 --> 07:42:17,440
operation with imprisonment or death if

11297
07:42:22,468 --> 07:42:19,920
they revealed what they observed

11298
07:42:25,350 --> 07:42:22,478
the popular roswell story contends that

11299
07:42:28,070 --> 07:42:25,360
the bodies once recovered were allegedly

11300
07:42:30,948 --> 07:42:28,080
transported under tight security to the

11301
07:42:32,868 --> 07:42:30,958
base hospital at roswell army airfield

11302
07:42:35,270 --> 07:42:32,878
for autopsy

11303
07:42:37,830 --> 07:42:35,280
at the hospital the angry red-headed

11304
07:42:39,990 --> 07:42:37,840
captain was again allegedly observed

11305
07:42:42,150 --> 07:42:40,000
threatening civilians

11306
07:42:44,468 --> 07:42:42,160
following the purported autopsies the

11307
07:42:47,110 --> 07:42:44,478
alien bodies were supposedly transported

11308
07:42:49,510 --> 07:42:47,120
to right field ohio now wright-patterson

11309
07:42:51,030 --> 07:42:49,520
air force base for further processing

11310
07:42:53,270 --> 07:42:51,040
and storage

11311
07:42:58,070 --> 07:42:53,280
this summarizes the roswell incident

11312
07:43:00,628 --> 07:42:58,080
scenario as presented by ufo enthusiasts

11313
07:43:02,788 --> 07:43:00,638
on the surface this explanation may

11314
07:43:04,948 --> 07:43:02,798
appear plausible to some

11315
07:43:06,070 --> 07:43:04,958
however things are not always as they

11316
07:43:08,388 --> 07:43:06,080
appear

11317
07:43:11,910 --> 07:43:08,398
the reports of bodies were only briefly

11318
07:43:15,190 --> 07:43:11,920
discussed in the 1994 air force report

11319
07:43:17,750 --> 07:43:15,200
because the search for records from 1947

11320
07:43:21,190 --> 07:43:17,760
the year of the alleged incident did not

11321
07:43:23,190 --> 07:43:21,200
yield any data to support a 1947 claim

11322
07:43:24,830 --> 07:43:23,200
of alien bodies

11323
07:43:26,868 --> 07:43:24,840
however following the release of the

11324
07:43:28,708 --> 07:43:26,878
1994 report

11325
07:43:30,948 --> 07:43:28,718
additional research uncovered

11326
07:43:33,750 --> 07:43:30,958
information which explains some of the

11327
07:43:35,990 --> 07:43:33,760
claims of alien bodies associated with

11328
07:43:38,388 --> 07:43:36,000
the roswell incident

11329
07:43:40,628 --> 07:43:38,398
from the additional research a second

11330
07:43:42,948 --> 07:43:40,638
report was written which critically

11331
07:43:46,230 --> 07:43:42,958
examined the anecdotal claims and

11332
07:43:48,230 --> 07:43:46,240
descriptions of flying saucers aliens

11333
07:43:51,590 --> 07:43:48,240
and reports of unusual air force

11334
07:43:54,708 --> 07:43:51,600
activities in the new mexico desert

11335
07:43:57,030 --> 07:43:54,718
this in-depth examination revealed that

11336
07:43:59,190 --> 07:43:57,040
many of these claims were reasonably

11337
07:44:00,788 --> 07:43:59,200
accurate descriptions of air force

11338
07:44:03,510 --> 07:44:00,798
activities

11339
07:44:05,830 --> 07:44:03,520
some of the claims that refer to bodies

11340
07:44:08,468 --> 07:44:05,840
are most likely misperceptions by

11341
07:44:10,708 --> 07:44:08,478
uninformed persons of unclassified and

11342
07:44:13,190 --> 07:44:10,718
widely publicized air force scientific

11343
07:44:15,750 --> 07:44:13,200
achievements of the 1950s

11344
07:44:18,388 --> 07:44:15,760
however other descriptions of bodies

11345
07:44:21,030 --> 07:44:18,398
appear to be exploitation of air force

11346
07:44:23,910 --> 07:44:21,040
members killed or injured in the line of

11347
07:44:27,830 --> 07:44:25,830
the following are the five main

11348
07:44:30,468 --> 07:44:27,840
conclusions contained in the second

11349
07:44:35,510 --> 07:44:32,868
research reveals that actual u.s

11350
07:44:38,868 --> 07:44:35,520
military operations widely separated by

11351
07:44:41,430 --> 07:44:38,878
time geographical location and purpose

11352
07:44:43,190 --> 07:44:41,440
have been misinterpreted or deliberately

11353
07:44:45,590 --> 07:44:43,200
misrepresented

11354
07:44:48,310 --> 07:44:45,600
these misrepresentations collectively

11355
07:44:49,590 --> 07:44:48,320
created what is known as the roswell

11356
07:44:52,230 --> 07:44:49,600
incident

11357
07:44:54,548 --> 07:44:52,240
ufo proponents failed to establish

11358
07:44:57,190 --> 07:44:54,558
accurate dates of reported eyewitness

11359
07:44:58,548 --> 07:44:57,200
accounts in some instances by more than

11360
07:45:01,190 --> 07:44:58,558
a decade

11361
07:45:04,310 --> 07:45:01,200
in addition they erroneously linked all

11362
07:45:07,990 --> 07:45:04,320
these accounts to the actual 1947

11363
07:45:10,070 --> 07:45:08,000
recovery of project mogul equipment

11364
07:45:12,788 --> 07:45:10,080
eventually these misrepresentations

11365
07:45:15,110 --> 07:45:12,798
transformed a series of verifiable air

11366
07:45:18,468 --> 07:45:15,120
force activities into what some have

11367
07:45:22,070 --> 07:45:18,478
described as the extraterrestrial event

11368
07:45:27,590 --> 07:45:24,628
reports of aliens in the new mexico

11369
07:45:30,310 --> 07:45:27,600
desert were actually anthropomorphic

11370
07:45:32,310 --> 07:45:30,320
test dummies that were carried aloft by

11371
07:45:33,590 --> 07:45:32,320
air force high altitude research

11372
07:45:36,230 --> 07:45:33,600
balloons

11373
07:45:37,990 --> 07:45:36,240
critical examination of alleged alien

11374
07:45:39,670 --> 07:45:38,000
sightings consistently match the

11375
07:45:42,468 --> 07:45:39,680
physical characteristics of these

11376
07:45:44,708 --> 07:45:42,478
dummies as well as where and how they

11377
07:45:47,510 --> 07:45:44,718
were used

11378
07:45:49,110 --> 07:45:47,520
vince that new dummy cam is great yeah

11379
07:45:50,628 --> 07:45:49,120
it'll sure give people a whole new

11380
07:45:53,710 --> 07:45:50,638
outlook on what it's like when you don't

11381
07:45:53,720 --> 07:45:58,830
[Music]

11382
07:46:03,830 --> 07:46:01,990
belt i think they'll get the picture you

11383
07:46:06,548 --> 07:46:03,840
could learn a lot from a dummy buckle

11384
07:46:09,510 --> 07:46:06,558
your safety belt anthropomorphic dummies

11385
07:46:12,388 --> 07:46:09,520
also known as crash test dummies are

11386
07:46:14,708 --> 07:46:12,398
today easily identifiable and are even

11387
07:46:17,430 --> 07:46:14,718
stars of their own successful auto

11388
07:46:20,150 --> 07:46:17,440
safety advertising campaign

11389
07:46:22,628 --> 07:46:20,160
however during the 1950s public

11390
07:46:25,270 --> 07:46:22,638
awareness was still decades away for

11391
07:46:28,468 --> 07:46:25,280
these important scientific tools

11392
07:46:31,110 --> 07:46:28,478
from 1953 to 1959

11393
07:46:34,150 --> 07:46:31,120
anthropomorphic dummies were used by the

11394
07:46:37,350 --> 07:46:34,160
u.s air force aeromedical laboratory and

11395
07:46:39,830 --> 07:46:37,360
projects high dive and excelsior

11396
07:46:41,990 --> 07:46:39,840
the project's main objective

11397
07:46:44,628 --> 07:46:42,000
was to study methods for returning a

11398
07:46:47,190 --> 07:46:44,638
pilot or astronaut safely to earth by

11399
07:46:50,150 --> 07:46:47,200
parachute if forced to eject at

11400
07:46:52,948 --> 07:46:50,160
extremely high altitudes

11401
07:46:56,230 --> 07:46:52,958
for these tests dummies were transported

11402
07:47:05,670 --> 07:46:56,240
up to 98 000 feet by high altitude

11403
07:47:10,230 --> 07:47:07,590
the dummies were released for a free

11404
07:47:11,990 --> 07:47:10,240
fall period during which body movements

11405
07:47:19,270 --> 07:47:12,000
and escape equipment performance were

11406
07:47:23,750 --> 07:47:21,270
many of the dummies landed outside the

11407
07:47:25,750 --> 07:47:23,760
confines of military reservations and

11408
07:47:29,030 --> 07:47:25,760
were regularly observed by local

11409
07:47:33,990 --> 07:47:31,670
following a series of dummy tests a

11410
07:47:36,868 --> 07:47:34,000
human subject air force test pilot

11411
07:47:40,388 --> 07:47:36,878
captain joseph w kittinger jr now a

11412
07:47:42,948 --> 07:47:40,398
retired colonel made three bailouts from

11413
07:47:44,948 --> 07:47:42,958
high altitude balloons

11414
07:47:47,110 --> 07:47:44,958
these and other aeromedical projects

11415
07:47:49,910 --> 07:47:47,120
that used both dummies and human test

11416
07:47:52,240 --> 07:47:49,920
subjects were unclassified and widely

11417
07:47:56,070 --> 07:47:52,250
publicized in the press and other media

11418
07:48:00,388 --> 07:47:57,830
in 1956

11419
07:48:02,708 --> 07:48:00,398
20th century fox released on the

11420
07:48:04,868 --> 07:48:02,718
threshold of space a feature-length

11421
07:48:06,868 --> 07:48:04,878
motion picture based on these projects

11422
07:48:08,948 --> 07:48:06,878
and filmed on location at holloman air

11423
07:48:11,350 --> 07:48:08,958
force base

11424
07:48:13,910 --> 07:48:11,360
air force personnel aircraft high

11425
07:48:15,910 --> 07:48:13,920
altitude balloons and other equipment

11426
07:48:18,230 --> 07:48:15,920
including the actual anthropomorphic

11427
07:48:19,630 --> 07:48:18,240
dummies were used in the making of this

11428
07:48:22,388 --> 07:48:19,640
film

11429
07:48:25,030 --> 07:48:22,398
[Music]

11430
07:48:27,350 --> 07:48:25,040
the eyewitness reports of military units

11431
07:48:29,670 --> 07:48:27,360
that always seemed to arrive shortly

11432
07:48:31,990 --> 07:48:29,680
after the alleged crash of a flying

11433
07:48:34,388 --> 07:48:32,000
saucer were actually accurate

11434
07:48:36,708 --> 07:48:34,398
descriptions of air force personnel

11435
07:48:38,468 --> 07:48:36,718
engaged in high altitude balloon and

11436
07:48:40,310 --> 07:48:38,478
anthropomorphic dummy recovery

11437
07:48:42,150 --> 07:48:40,320
operations

11438
07:48:44,150 --> 07:48:42,160
since 1947

11439
07:48:46,150 --> 07:48:44,160
air force atmospheric research

11440
07:48:47,510 --> 07:48:46,160
organizations at holloman air force base

11441
07:48:48,868 --> 07:48:47,520
new mexico

11442
07:48:52,070 --> 07:48:48,878
have launched and recovered

11443
07:48:54,948 --> 07:48:52,080
approximately 2 500 high-altitude

11444
07:48:57,350 --> 07:48:54,958
balloons many in the same areas of new

11445
07:48:59,350 --> 07:48:57,360
mexico where the roswell incident

11446
07:49:01,990 --> 07:48:59,360
allegedly occurred

11447
07:49:03,830 --> 07:49:02,000
additionally the equipment vehicles and

11448
07:49:06,310 --> 07:49:03,840
procedures used by the holloman air

11449
07:49:08,468 --> 07:49:06,320
force base balloon branch the unit that

11450
07:49:10,708 --> 07:49:08,478
conducted most of the launches

11451
07:49:13,750 --> 07:49:10,718
are the same as that described by the

11452
07:49:16,230 --> 07:49:13,760
reputed witnesses who claim they saw the

11453
07:49:17,830 --> 07:49:16,240
recovery of the flying saucer and alien

11454
07:49:20,150 --> 07:49:17,840
crew

11455
07:49:22,388 --> 07:49:20,160
these huge air force high-altitude

11456
07:49:25,030 --> 07:49:22,398
balloons launched by the holloman

11457
07:49:27,350 --> 07:49:25,040
balloon branch carried aloft a wide

11458
07:49:30,468 --> 07:49:27,360
range of sophisticated and from most

11459
07:49:32,868 --> 07:49:30,478
perspectives odd-looking devices much of

11460
07:49:35,590 --> 07:49:32,878
this equipment was experimental and

11461
07:49:38,388 --> 07:49:35,600
represented for that era the latest in

11462
07:49:40,788 --> 07:49:38,398
space age technologies

11463
07:49:43,430 --> 07:49:40,798
payloads ranged from simple radio

11464
07:49:47,100 --> 07:49:43,440
transmitters to sophisticated satellite

11465
07:49:48,548 --> 07:49:47,110
components and nasa space probes

11466
07:49:50,948 --> 07:49:48,558
[Music]

11467
07:49:53,590 --> 07:49:50,958
in fact qualification trials for the

11468
07:49:56,150 --> 07:49:53,600
nasa voyager mars and viking space

11469
07:49:59,350 --> 07:49:56,160
probes were flown by air force high

11470
07:50:02,760 --> 07:49:59,360
altitude balloons during the late 1960s

11471
07:50:04,388 --> 07:50:02,770
and early 1970s

11472
07:50:07,190 --> 07:50:04,398
[Music]

11473
07:50:09,910 --> 07:50:07,200
ironically these balloons were launched

11474
07:50:12,868 --> 07:50:09,920
from the former roswell army airfield

11475
07:50:14,948 --> 07:50:12,878
site of the originally alleged 1947

11476
07:50:17,830 --> 07:50:14,958
incident and recovered on the white

11477
07:50:19,350 --> 07:50:17,840
sands missile range over 100 miles to

11478
07:50:21,670 --> 07:50:19,360
the west

11479
07:50:23,270 --> 07:50:21,680
recovering the balloon payloads was

11480
07:50:25,510 --> 07:50:23,280
essential for accomplishing the

11481
07:50:28,788 --> 07:50:25,520
scientific objectives of the high

11482
07:50:30,868 --> 07:50:28,798
altitude balloon program

11483
07:50:33,990 --> 07:50:30,878
the primary high altitude balloon

11484
07:50:36,070 --> 07:50:34,000
recovery areas were and still are

11485
07:50:39,350 --> 07:50:36,080
located at predetermined sites

11486
07:50:40,388 --> 07:50:39,360
throughout arizona west texas and new

11487
07:50:43,590 --> 07:50:40,398
mexico

11488
07:50:46,230 --> 07:50:43,600
including the area surrounding roswell

11489
07:50:48,628 --> 07:50:46,240
to retrieve the equipment many miles

11490
07:50:51,590 --> 07:50:48,638
from holloman air force base recovery

11491
07:50:53,030 --> 07:50:51,600
personnel operated a variety of aircraft

11492
07:50:55,430 --> 07:50:53,040
and vehicles

11493
07:50:57,910 --> 07:50:55,440
the exact vehicles described by the

11494
07:51:00,948 --> 07:50:57,920
witnesses as having been present at the

11495
07:51:02,948 --> 07:51:00,958
crashed flying saucer sites

11496
07:51:04,708 --> 07:51:02,958
to expedite these operations the

11497
07:51:06,548 --> 07:51:04,718
recovery crews tracked the balloons

11498
07:51:08,708 --> 07:51:06,558
optically electronically and from

11499
07:51:13,790 --> 07:51:08,718
aircraft which directed ground vehicles

11500
07:51:13,800 --> 07:51:20,070
[Music]

11501
07:51:24,868 --> 07:51:22,670
in several of the roswell accounts

11502
07:51:27,190 --> 07:51:24,878
unsubstantiated allegations asserted

11503
07:51:30,310 --> 07:51:27,200
that military personnel who retrieved

11504
07:51:32,868 --> 07:51:30,320
equipment from rural areas of new mexico

11505
07:51:34,310 --> 07:51:32,878
intimidated and threatened civilians on

11506
07:51:37,190 --> 07:51:34,320
the scene

11507
07:51:39,110 --> 07:51:37,200
on the contrary balloon branch personnel

11508
07:51:40,230 --> 07:51:39,120
enjoyed good relations with the local

11509
07:51:42,788 --> 07:51:40,240
community

11510
07:51:46,788 --> 07:51:42,798
and often solicited their assistance

11511
07:51:48,468 --> 07:51:46,798
following a balloon or payload landing

11512
07:51:50,868 --> 07:51:48,478
in the course of their activities

11513
07:51:54,388 --> 07:51:50,878
recovery personnel rented or borrowed

11514
07:51:58,230 --> 07:51:54,398
tractors bulldozers snowmobiles and even

11515
07:52:00,628 --> 07:51:58,240
pack mules from local residents

11516
07:52:03,190 --> 07:52:00,638
the payloads parachutes balloons and

11517
07:52:05,190 --> 07:52:03,200
circling chase aircraft often draw

11518
07:52:07,670 --> 07:52:05,200
crowds of curious onlookers from the

11519
07:52:09,750 --> 07:52:07,680
local community

11520
07:52:11,750 --> 07:52:09,760
in fact so many civilians are often

11521
07:52:14,548 --> 07:52:11,760
present at balloon or payload landing

11522
07:52:17,350 --> 07:52:14,558
sites the scenes were once described by

11523
07:52:21,750 --> 07:52:17,360
balloon branch personnel as being like

11524
07:52:25,270 --> 07:52:22,948
here's what it looked like this

11525
07:52:26,868 --> 07:52:25,280
afternoon floating from east to west

11526
07:52:30,150 --> 07:52:26,878
over town

11527
07:52:32,868 --> 07:52:30,160
it was way up there all right some 25

11528
07:52:34,150 --> 07:52:32,878
miles over our heads the air force later

11529
07:52:36,070 --> 07:52:34,160
told me

11530
07:52:38,468 --> 07:52:36,080
the giant helium-filled balloon

11531
07:52:40,948 --> 07:52:38,478
eventually collapsed falling to earth

11532
07:52:43,350 --> 07:52:40,958
like a thousand pounds of cellophane

11533
07:52:44,830 --> 07:52:43,360
landing on the gila indian reservation

11534
07:52:47,670 --> 07:52:44,840
southwest of

11535
07:52:48,548 --> 07:52:47,680
phoenix a short while later we spotted

11536
07:52:50,788 --> 07:52:48,558
this

11537
07:52:52,310 --> 07:52:50,798
a large parachute perhaps 100 feet

11538
07:52:53,990 --> 07:52:52,320
across

11539
07:52:56,070 --> 07:52:54,000
dangling beneath it was some sort of a

11540
07:52:57,910 --> 07:52:56,080
silver box that made a rather hard

11541
07:52:59,830 --> 07:52:57,920
landing

11542
07:53:02,708 --> 07:52:59,840
this is what had been attached to that

11543
07:53:04,948 --> 07:53:02,718
balloon we would later find out

11544
07:53:09,270 --> 07:53:04,958
there were no markings on it no way at

11545
07:53:13,270 --> 07:53:11,750
then the air force pulled up excuse me

11546
07:53:14,788 --> 07:53:13,280
we don't mean to be too nosy but about a

11547
07:53:17,270 --> 07:53:14,798
million people in phoenix are dying to

11548
07:53:19,590 --> 07:53:17,280
know what is it what is it

11549
07:53:21,510 --> 07:53:19,600
this is a scientific payload that was

11550
07:53:25,030 --> 07:53:21,520
launched from holloman air force base in

11551
07:53:28,070 --> 07:53:25,040
new mexico how far away about 400 miles

11552
07:53:29,110 --> 07:53:28,080
okay it went up to approximately 125 000

11553
07:53:30,868 --> 07:53:29,120
feet

11554
07:53:32,788 --> 07:53:30,878
in the air

11555
07:53:35,350 --> 07:53:32,798
carried aloft by an 11 million cubic

11556
07:53:37,590 --> 07:53:35,360
foot balloon so there you have it an air

11557
07:53:40,548 --> 07:53:37,600
force experiment to gather information

11558
07:53:44,070 --> 07:53:40,558
on gases in the upper atmosphere

11559
07:53:47,190 --> 07:53:44,080
thank goodness it was one of ours

11560
07:53:49,590 --> 07:53:47,200
len clements newscenter 10.

11561
07:53:51,590 --> 07:53:49,600
in addition to high altitude balloons

11562
07:53:55,110 --> 07:53:51,600
the holloman balloon branch also

11563
07:53:56,788 --> 07:53:55,120
launched low altitude tethered balloons

11564
07:53:58,868 --> 07:53:56,798
these tethered balloons may have

11565
07:54:01,590 --> 07:53:58,878
inspired at least one account of an

11566
07:54:03,350 --> 07:54:01,600
alien craft associated with the roswell

11567
07:54:05,830 --> 07:54:03,360
incident

11568
07:54:08,548 --> 07:54:05,840
in a popular book the authors present a

11569
07:54:11,830 --> 07:54:08,558
drawing of a crashed spaceship allegedly

11570
07:54:13,670 --> 07:54:11,840
given to them by an anonymous witness

11571
07:54:15,910 --> 07:54:13,680
when this drawing is compared to a

11572
07:54:18,230 --> 07:54:15,920
photograph of an experimental tethered

11573
07:54:20,468 --> 07:54:18,240
balloon flown at holloman air force base

11574
07:54:33,670 --> 07:54:20,478
in march 1965

11575
07:54:39,590 --> 07:54:35,670
the redheaded captain was probably

11576
07:54:41,830 --> 07:54:39,600
captain joseph w kinnigar jr

11577
07:54:44,628 --> 07:54:41,840
captain kittinger served as the project

11578
07:54:46,708 --> 07:54:44,638
officer or pilot in all three of the air

11579
07:54:47,750 --> 07:54:46,718
force's manned high altitude balloon

11580
07:54:48,868 --> 07:54:47,760
projects

11581
07:54:52,310 --> 07:54:48,878
man high

11582
07:54:54,150 --> 07:54:52,320
excelsior and stargazer

11583
07:54:55,990 --> 07:54:54,160
captain kenniger was present at many

11584
07:54:57,990 --> 07:54:56,000
balloon and dummy launch and recovery

11585
07:55:02,548 --> 07:54:58,000
sites throughout the southwest united

11586
07:55:04,868 --> 07:55:02,558
states during the 1950s and early 1960s

11587
07:55:07,990 --> 07:55:04,878
however other than the allegations made

11588
07:55:10,708 --> 07:55:08,000
by ufo proponents there is no evidence

11589
07:55:12,788 --> 07:55:10,718
of any kind that kittinger confronted or

11590
07:55:14,868 --> 07:55:12,798
threatened civilians

11591
07:55:17,510 --> 07:55:14,878
colonel kittinger's achievements as an

11592
07:55:19,350 --> 07:55:17,520
air force test pilot are legendary

11593
07:55:23,380 --> 07:55:19,360
he has the standing world record

11594
07:55:31,190 --> 07:55:23,390
parachute jump from nearly 20 miles

11595
07:55:35,510 --> 07:55:33,510
later he went on to serve three combat

11596
07:55:37,990 --> 07:55:35,520
tours in southeast asia

11597
07:55:39,910 --> 07:55:38,000
and is credited with an aerial victory

11598
07:55:41,830 --> 07:55:39,920
while engaged in combat over north

11599
07:55:46,468 --> 07:55:41,840
vietnam

11600
07:55:51,510 --> 07:55:49,750
after over 480 combat missions colonel

11601
07:55:54,070 --> 07:55:51,520
kittinger was shot down over north

11602
07:55:56,310 --> 07:55:54,080
vietnam and spent 10 months as a

11603
07:55:59,270 --> 07:55:56,320
prisoner of war in the infamous hanoi

11604
07:56:01,190 --> 07:55:59,280
hilton before being repatriated in march

11605
07:56:03,510 --> 07:56:01,200
1973.

11606
07:56:05,750 --> 07:56:03,520
colonel kinninger made history again

11607
07:56:08,388 --> 07:56:05,760
after retiring from the air force in

11608
07:56:11,270 --> 07:56:08,398
1984 he accomplished the first solo

11609
07:56:12,388 --> 07:56:11,280
crossing of the atlantic by balloon

11610
07:56:14,628 --> 07:56:12,398
[Music]

11611
07:56:16,708 --> 07:56:14,638
the final and most disturbing conclusion

11612
07:56:19,350 --> 07:56:16,718
of the second roswell report

11613
07:56:21,270 --> 07:56:19,360
is the apparent exploitation of air

11614
07:56:23,990 --> 07:56:21,280
force members killed or injured in the

11615
07:56:30,070 --> 07:56:24,000
line of duty to perpetuate the alleged

11616
07:56:34,868 --> 07:56:32,708
claims of bodies at the roswell army

11617
07:56:36,788 --> 07:56:34,878
airfield hospital were likely a

11618
07:56:39,430 --> 07:56:36,798
combination of several aircraft

11619
07:56:40,548 --> 07:56:39,440
accidents and an unusual manned balloon

11620
07:56:42,548 --> 07:56:40,558
mishap

11621
07:56:44,788 --> 07:56:42,558
one aircraft accident occurred on june

11622
07:56:46,708 --> 07:56:44,798
26 1956

11623
07:56:49,510 --> 07:56:46,718
eleven air force members died when their

11624
07:56:51,750 --> 07:56:49,520
fully loaded kc-97 tanker aircraft

11625
07:56:54,150 --> 07:56:51,760
experienced a propeller failure four and

11626
07:56:56,310 --> 07:56:54,160
a half minutes after takeoff

11627
07:56:58,468 --> 07:56:56,320
the crash site was approximately nine

11628
07:57:01,190 --> 07:56:58,478
miles south of the former roswell army

11629
07:57:02,948 --> 07:57:01,200
airfield renamed walker air force base

11630
07:57:04,868 --> 07:57:02,958
in 1948

11631
07:57:07,350 --> 07:57:04,878
the badly burned bodies of the 11

11632
07:57:10,070 --> 07:57:07,360
crewmen were identified and processed at

11633
07:57:12,388 --> 07:57:10,080
the walker air force base hospital

11634
07:57:14,628 --> 07:57:12,398
the alleged claims of bodies at the base

11635
07:57:17,270 --> 07:57:14,638
hospital can be traced to a single

11636
07:57:19,190 --> 07:57:17,280
witness whose descriptions closely match

11637
07:57:20,548 --> 07:57:19,200
the condition and the circumstances

11638
07:57:22,628 --> 07:57:20,558
under which these victims were

11639
07:57:25,190 --> 07:57:22,638
identified

11640
07:57:27,670 --> 07:57:25,200
furthermore claims of bodies attributed

11641
07:57:29,350 --> 07:57:27,680
to specific air force personnel are

11642
07:57:31,190 --> 07:57:29,360
unsubstantiated

11643
07:57:34,150 --> 07:57:31,200
some of these individuals were not even

11644
07:57:37,190 --> 07:57:34,160
present at roswell army airfield in july

11645
07:57:41,190 --> 07:57:39,110
the balloon mishap occurred during a

11646
07:57:43,350 --> 07:57:41,200
low-level training mission for backup

11647
07:57:45,990 --> 07:57:43,360
pilots in the project excelsior high

11648
07:57:47,750 --> 07:57:46,000
altitude manned balloon program

11649
07:57:49,990 --> 07:57:47,760
this unusual accident occurred

11650
07:57:52,830 --> 07:57:50,000
approximately 10 miles northwest of

11651
07:57:56,150 --> 07:57:52,840
walker air force base on may 21

11652
07:57:59,670 --> 07:57:56,160
1959. one of the three crewmen captain

11653
07:58:01,590 --> 07:57:59,680
dan d fulgium now a retired colonel was

11654
07:58:04,230 --> 07:58:01,600
injured during landing

11655
07:58:06,230 --> 07:58:04,240
following the mishap captain fulghum and

11656
07:58:08,388 --> 07:58:06,240
the other balloon crew members were

11657
07:58:11,110 --> 07:58:08,398
transported to the walker air force base

11658
07:58:12,468 --> 07:58:11,120
hospital via a chase helicopter that

11659
07:58:14,708 --> 07:58:12,478
followed the training mission for

11660
07:58:16,468 --> 07:58:14,718
emergency purposes

11661
07:58:19,030 --> 07:58:16,478
upon arrival at the highly secure

11662
07:58:21,590 --> 07:58:19,040
strategic air command base the balloon

11663
07:58:24,070 --> 07:58:21,600
crew was met by armed air force security

11664
07:58:26,708 --> 07:58:24,080
personnel who remained with the crew

11665
07:58:29,030 --> 07:58:26,718
until their identities were confirmed

11666
07:58:31,510 --> 07:58:29,040
as the excelsior project officer and

11667
07:58:33,590 --> 07:58:31,520
instructor pilot for this mission the

11668
07:58:36,708 --> 07:58:33,600
red-headed captain kittinger accompanied

11669
07:58:38,948 --> 07:58:36,718
the balloon crew to the hospital

11670
07:58:40,948 --> 07:58:38,958
at the walker air force base hospital

11671
07:58:42,948 --> 07:58:40,958
kindergarten and fulghum were apparently

11672
07:58:45,270 --> 07:58:42,958
observed by individuals who later

11673
07:58:47,590 --> 07:58:45,280
related this unusual incident

11674
07:58:50,230 --> 07:58:47,600
elements of this actual event now appear

11675
07:58:52,230 --> 07:58:50,240
to be part of the roswell story captain

11676
07:58:54,628 --> 07:58:52,240
fulghum was treated for an injury that

11677
07:58:56,548 --> 07:58:54,638
caused his head to swell beyond its

11678
07:58:58,628 --> 07:58:56,558
normal size

11679
07:59:01,350 --> 07:58:58,638
the injury described as a traumatic

11680
07:59:03,430 --> 07:59:01,360
hematoma was not serious

11681
07:59:05,910 --> 07:59:03,440
on a specially arranged flight several

11682
07:59:08,230 --> 07:59:05,920
days after the accident fulghum returned

11683
07:59:11,590 --> 07:59:08,240
to wright patterson air force base ohio

11684
07:59:13,590 --> 07:59:11,600
where he made a complete recovery

11685
07:59:16,310 --> 07:59:13,600
fulghum went on to distinguish himself

11686
07:59:19,350 --> 07:59:16,320
as a test parachutist and physiologist

11687
07:59:21,670 --> 07:59:19,360
for the space program he later flew f-4s

11688
07:59:23,590 --> 07:59:21,680
in southeast asia adding to his combat

11689
07:59:28,310 --> 07:59:23,600
record as a fighter pilot during the

11690
07:59:32,948 --> 07:59:30,468
when critically examined the roswell

11691
07:59:35,030 --> 07:59:32,958
incident is exposed as a conglomeration

11692
07:59:37,270 --> 07:59:35,040
of many events including aircraft

11693
07:59:38,910 --> 07:59:37,280
accidents that occurred over several

11694
07:59:40,948 --> 07:59:38,920
decades

11695
07:59:43,590 --> 07:59:40,958
misidentification of anthropomorphic

11696
07:59:46,230 --> 07:59:43,600
dummies and experimental balloon launch

11697
07:59:48,468 --> 07:59:46,240
devices combined with air force balloon

11698
07:59:51,430 --> 07:59:48,478
operations portrayed as mysterious

11699
07:59:54,150 --> 07:59:51,440
flying saucer and alien recovery teams

11700
07:59:58,788 --> 07:59:54,160
transformed verifiable events into what

11701
08:00:01,110 --> 07:59:58,798
is now known as the roswell incident

11702
08:00:03,110 --> 08:00:01,120
the u.s air force and its predecessors

11703
08:00:04,948 --> 08:00:03,120
have been the unsurpassed innovators in

11704
08:00:06,868 --> 08:00:04,958
aerospace technology

11705
08:00:09,110 --> 08:00:06,878
legendary air force leaders throughout

11706
08:00:11,350 --> 08:00:09,120
this century have used technological

11707
08:00:18,010 --> 08:00:11,360
advances to establish the u.s air force

11708
08:00:18,020 --> 08:00:23,670
[Music]

11709
08:00:28,310 --> 08:00:25,430
the facts presented in the reports

11710
08:00:31,270 --> 08:00:28,320
examining the so-called roswell incident

11711
08:00:33,350 --> 08:00:31,280
did not reveal it to be a dark secret or

11712
08:00:35,350 --> 08:00:33,360
government cover-up as persons

11713
08:00:43,590 --> 08:00:35,360
unacquainted with air force technologies

11714
08:00:48,788 --> 08:00:45,830
greetings friends well

11715
08:00:51,190 --> 08:00:48,798
for today at least we have made it down

11716
08:00:52,150 --> 08:00:51,200
to the bottom of this roswell rabbit

11717
08:00:55,110 --> 08:00:52,160
hole

11718
08:00:57,750 --> 08:00:55,120
this is a mystery an incredible mystery

11719
08:00:59,430 --> 08:00:57,760
that i have been interested in

11720
08:01:01,510 --> 08:00:59,440
all my life

11721
08:01:03,510 --> 08:01:01,520
i thought if i could gather all of the

11722
08:01:04,948 --> 08:01:03,520
world's leading experts and interview

11723
08:01:07,830 --> 08:01:04,958
them

11724
08:01:09,110 --> 08:01:07,840
that i would know for sure for certain

11725
08:01:13,270 --> 08:01:09,120
what it is

11726
08:01:15,350 --> 08:01:13,280
that happened on july 7 1947 in roswell

11727
08:01:16,868 --> 08:01:15,360
new mexico

11728
08:01:18,708 --> 08:01:16,878
but i've got to tell you

11729
08:01:21,190 --> 08:01:18,718
i'm still torn

11730
08:01:23,670 --> 08:01:21,200
i for one refuse to believe some of the

11731
08:01:27,030 --> 08:01:23,680
skeptics who simply

11732
08:01:27,830 --> 08:01:27,040
discount all of the eyewitness testimony

11733
08:01:30,468 --> 08:01:27,840
or

11734
08:01:31,510 --> 08:01:30,478
attempt to explain it away with no

11735
08:01:36,150 --> 08:01:31,520
real

11736
08:01:41,350 --> 08:01:38,628
those death bed confessions that many

11737
08:01:42,468 --> 08:01:41,360
people gave about seeing debris and even

11738
08:01:45,190 --> 08:01:42,478
bodies

11739
08:01:47,190 --> 08:01:45,200
weighs very heavily on my decision

11740
08:01:49,110 --> 08:01:47,200
making process

11741
08:01:50,708 --> 08:01:49,120
and the truth is

11742
08:01:53,830 --> 08:01:50,718
i'm still

11743
08:01:55,190 --> 08:01:53,840
on the fence

11744
08:01:57,830 --> 08:01:55,200
i have

11745
08:02:01,430 --> 08:01:57,840
my own theories and my own beliefs

11746
08:02:04,788 --> 08:02:03,350
i wanted to bring you

11747
08:02:07,750 --> 08:02:04,798
with me

11748
08:02:11,350 --> 08:02:07,760
down this deep rabbit hole

11749
08:02:14,708 --> 08:02:11,360
and go as deep as i could

11750
08:02:17,270 --> 08:02:14,718
i think we accomplished that today

11751
08:02:20,310 --> 08:02:17,280
but what i think happened in roswell

11752
08:02:21,350 --> 08:02:20,320
doesn't really matter

11753
08:02:24,150 --> 08:02:21,360
i think

11754
08:02:26,310 --> 08:02:24,160
it's more important what you think

11755
08:02:29,830 --> 08:02:26,320
happened in roswell

11756
08:02:32,150 --> 08:02:29,840
on july 7 1947.

11757
08:02:34,548 --> 08:02:32,160
if you made it this far all the way down

11758
08:02:36,070 --> 08:02:34,558
the rabbit hole please do

11759
08:02:38,628 --> 08:02:36,080
leave a comment

11760
08:02:40,868 --> 08:02:38,638
let us know what you think happened at

11761
08:02:42,310 --> 08:02:40,878
roswell

11762
08:02:44,788 --> 08:02:42,320
i've got to tell you

11763
08:02:46,628 --> 08:02:44,798
uh for once in my life i did something

11764
08:02:48,468 --> 08:02:46,638
right and that is i had the forethought

11765
08:02:50,628 --> 08:02:48,478
to start interviewing these experts

11766
08:02:53,030 --> 08:02:50,638
authors and researchers before this

11767
08:02:55,110 --> 08:02:53,040
anniversary date

11768
08:02:56,868 --> 08:02:55,120
it's been quite a journey and i'm glad

11769
08:02:58,868 --> 08:02:56,878
that i could bring you along with me

11770
08:03:01,430 --> 08:02:58,878
until next time friends i'm stephen

11771
08:03:03,110 --> 08:03:01,440
cambion reminding you

11772
08:03:04,868 --> 08:03:03,120
that a mystery

11773
08:03:07,110 --> 08:03:04,878
is only a mystery

11774
08:03:11,010 --> 08:03:07,120
for as long as we wish it to be good

11775
08:03:11,020 --> 08:03:21,430
[Music]

11776
08:03:34,070 --> 08:03:23,530
so

11777
08:03:37,010 --> 08:03:34,080
[Music]

11778
08:03:45,940 --> 08:03:37,020
[Applause]

11779
08:03:50,150 --> 08:03:45,950
[Music]

11780
08:03:50,160 --> 08:03:54,990
so

11781
08:04:05,680 --> 08:04:04,548
[Music]

11782
08:04:05,980 --> 08:04:05,690
so

11783
08:04:08,290 --> 08:04:05,990
[Music]

11784
08:04:18,628 --> 08:04:08,300
[Applause]

11785
08:04:21,630 --> 08:04:18,638
[Music]

11786
08:04:21,630 --> 08:04:21,640
so

11787
08:04:33,590 --> 08:04:32,640
[Music]

11788
08:04:44,948 --> 08:04:33,600
[Applause]

11789
08:04:48,160 --> 08:04:46,360
so

11790
08:04:48,280 --> 08:04:48,170
[Music]

11791
08:05:20,110 --> 08:04:48,290
[Applause]